Daylight Saving Time Is Terrible: Here's a Simple Plan to Fix It (DST ends Sun, Nov 3)

[ChisolmTrailDem]

Daylight saving time ends Nov. 3, setting off an annual ritual where Americans (who don’t live in Arizona or Hawaii) and residents of 78 other countries including Canada (but not Saskatchewan), most of Europe, Australia and New Zealand turn their clocks back one hour. It’s a controversial practice that became popular in the 1970s with the intent of conserving energy. The fall time change feels particularly hard because we lose another hour of evening daylight, just as the days grow shorter. It also creates confusion because countries that observe daylight saving change their clocks on different days.

It would seem to be more efficient to do away with the practice altogether. The actual energy savings are minimal, if they exist at all. Frequent and uncoordinated time changes cause confusion, undermining economic efficiency. There’s evidence that regularly changing sleep cycles, associated with daylight saving, lowers productivity and increases heart attacks. Being out of sync with European time changes was projected to cost the airline industry $147 million a year in travel disruptions. But I propose we not only end Daylight Saving, but also take it one step further.

...snip...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/daylight-saving-time-is-terrible-heres-a-simple-plan-to-fix-it/281075/

I like this idea. I really dislike it getting dark at 4:30-5:00pm during the dead of winter when it's cold as can be and everything you do outside after work has to be in the cold AND dark. A little more sun in the winter late afternoon/early evening would be very nice, especially in the northern tier I would think.

What do you guys think ?

[chillfactor]

1. I love daylight savings time.....

I love the extra hour of sunlight especially in the winter time.....I wish daylight savings time was the standard the world over

[sinkingfeeling]

5. What extra hour of sunlight in winter? Look outside at 5PM today

and then do it again on Sunday.

[LWolf]

76. There comes a time

when it's not going to matter; for 2-3 months, it's going to be dark when I leave, and dark when I get home. I work long hours.

DST DOES make a difference, though. This week, I was able to get home at dusk, with a little light left for barn chores, three times out of 5. Next week it will be zero out of five, and until late Feb./early March, I'll be doing barn chores in the dark every week morning and night.

And I'll still be leaving for work in the dark.

[uppityperson]

9. That is backwards. Tonight the sun sets at 6, tomorrow it sets at 5. Or do you mean in the morning?

In which case yes, there is an extra hour in the morning.

[abelenkpe]

16. I thought we are daylight savings now

And this weekend we fall back to normal time?

[uppityperson]

21. This weekend we get off DSL. We fall back an hour, so rather than sun setting for example

at 6 pm, it will set at 5 pm. Rather than it rising at for example 7 am, it will rise at 6 am.

[sinkingfeeling]

25. The person said he had more evening daylight in winter. It will be darker

at 5PM when we go off of it this Sunday.

[Brickbat]

10. There is no extra hour of sunlight.

[Lex]

24. With DST there is sunlight shifted by time to the end of the day

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2013, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)

but correct, no actual extra sunlight. Of course.

[pangaia]

32. So farmers could work longer?

[Lex]

38. How could farmers work longer

if there is not extra daylight per se?

[pangaia]

43. In the morning they milk the cows in the barn when it's dark, no problem.

In the evening they can work in the fields longer, THEN milk after dark.

[Johonny]

48. How does the cow know what time it is?

[pangaia]

51. Cows are smarter than you think.

Just kidding..
It is for the farmer. He can not work outside at 'farm work' in the dark but CAN milk in the dark..inside with..light bulbs! I've done it.

[former9thward]

74. I think farmers are smart enough to do their jobs no matter what the clock says.

They seem to survive just fine in Arizona and we are on standard time year round.

[Thor_MN]

82. Farmers are very smart.

I met a farmer as he was milking a cow. I asked what time it was and he stuck his hand under the cows udder and lifted it a bit. "11:30", he said. I said "That's amazing!! You can telling what time it is just by the weight of the cow's udder?" "No, if I lift up a bit I can see the clock on town tower.."

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. Me too!

[searchingforlight]

2. I live in Vermont and am just the opposite -

Hate standard time. Love daylight savings time.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. Just to clarify, I'm not the author of the article and I do like DST. However,

I don't like it getting dark before supper time in the winter.

A plan as described in the Atlantic article would seem to me to be a logical solution that would serve nearly everyone. Just off the top of my head, the plan would average out with us having 1/2 hour less daylight in the summer and 1/2 hour more daylight in the winter. Please feel free to correct me...anyone.

Most TV schedule times are delivered either 8pmET/9pmCT which could be changed to 8pmET/7pmWT. Also, for live events like sports, entertainment/concerts, and breaking news, you wouldn't have such an event, like an NFL game, taking place at 1pmET/10amPT. It would be 1pmET/12pmWT.

There would be more pros than cons, except if you hate to give up a half-hour in the summer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. It would mean, for New York:

December - latest sunrise: 6:20am; earliest sunset: 3:28pm (currently 7:20am and 4:28 pm)
June - earliest sunrise: 3:24 am; latest sunset: 6:31pm (currently 5:24am and 8:31pm)

In a way, it depends on whether you like sunlight during summer evenings. Presumably, most work and school patterns would be altered to give people that; but if you don't alter that pattern for winter (and that is what Daylight Savings Time is all about - a universal agreement to alter everyone's timetable and therefore pattern), you end up getting long before sunrise in winter.

Given the times above, what would you suggest would be the 'standard' working day of 8 hours ('9 to 5') for New York, the same through all the year?

[Mojorabbit]

49. I love it too. I can actually spend time on the dock with hubs

when he gets home from work and watch the sun set. Next week it will be dark when he gets home and the tv will be on instead of a grilled dinner and a glass of wine on the dock. I miss it already.

[roamer65]

81. Yup the farther north one goes, the more standard time is disliked.

[RebelOne]

3. I hate, hate daylight saving time.

The days should be shorter in the summer when the heat is highest in the late day and longer in the winter. I think that whoever thought of the time change should be drawn and quartered and thrown to the wolves.

[Pab Sungenis]

6. At the time, the thought was to save on candles

and later to save on electricity used for lighting.

No one ever took the cost of air conditioning into account.

[Raine]

22. Totally agree! nt

[pangaia]

33. DST has nothing to do with how long the days are.

It just changes our clocks and sort of moves some morning light to the evening.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. Would love to see it go away. I get up before sunrise no matter what time

of the year it is. I hate it being dark when I get off work.

[Silent3]

17. Ending DST wouldn't fix your problem...

...because when it's darker earlier at the end of your work day, that's when DST has ended. The only thing having a DST system does is put the early darkness for a while, then make the same amount of darkness you would have had anyway seem more sudden.

What you might really want is permanent DST, but if everyone really wants more sunlight when they go home, instead of playing silly games with clocks we should just schedule when our works and school schedules start and end an hour earlier.

[sinkingfeeling]

23. No. Daylight savings doesn't add anymore sunlit hours to the day. I have

daylight in the mornings until daylight savings time kicks in. Then I drive to work in the dark and have the sun shining when I go to bed. I would rather not have the time change at all.

[Silent3]

28. What I'm say is that right now is the shifted time...

When clocks are turned back this coming Sunday morning, we're back to Standard Time. It's ST, not DST, that's going to give you more light in the morning at the expense of less light in the evening.

If the practice of DST were totally ended, so we stopped playing with the clocks hence forth, but time zones were left unchanged, it would be just as dark for you when you drive home from work this coming Monday evening.

The only way related to DST that would allow you to keep the extra daylight at the end of your day would be to "spring forward" in the Spring, and then never, ever turn the clocks back after that. That wouldn't be the end of DST, however, that would be permanent DST.

[MicaelS]

7. I would end DST permanently.

But the idea of two time zones puts some of permanently on DST.

[frazzled]

11. Just try to go with the flow ...

I just try to adapt and focus on the constants in life. Chill with Chet, Time after Time.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

13. I chill no matter what time it is, sun or moon. =) Just thought it'd make for a good discussion. nt

[maxsolomon]

12. i like it and it's not going anywhere

the issue isn't when it gets dark on non-DST, it's when it gets light in the morning.

on this DST morning it was super tough to get out of bed because it was pitch dark outside - circadian rhythms rule my sleep. i've felt like a zombie the last 2 weeks. i'll be very happy on monday when i wake up WITH the sun. i can handle the sun setting before i leave work better than sunrise at 8 am.

in the summer, without DST, sunrise would be at 4:30 a.m. in the PNW in June. fuck that. that's wasted light. i'd rather the sun were up till 9:30.

and if you get up at 4 or 5 a.m. every day, you are

[FreeJoe]

63. Ha Ha Ha, I love it

and if you get up at 4 or 5 a.m. every day, you are

It's crazy to get up at those hours, but if we change the clocks so that they read an hour later, it isn't crazy anymore. I'm sure that makes sense to some people for some reason.

[fishwax]

14. my vote has always been to keep the "fall back" but skip the "spring forward"

I'd also be fine with falling back and springing back.

[itsrobert]

30. so after 12 years of falling back

it would move our days into night and our nights into days.

[fishwax]

55. yeah, but it's worth it for the 25-hour day twice a year

[abelenkpe]

18. Lol

Same here. Love the sunlight, love the summer. All the other seasons are time just waiting for summer.

[Silent3]

19. If I had lots of money, and was oblivious to creating a larger carbon footprint...

...I'd have a summer home in the Northern Hemisphere, and another summer home in the Southern Hemisphere.

[Raine]

20. I hate daylight savings time, I wish they would leave it a standard permanently. Stop messing

With time!

[Nye Bevan]

26. It takes me about a week to adjust to the clocks changing.

I would love to just keep DST all year round.

[Glassunion]

29. I have a far simpler plan.

Actually I have two plans...
1st plan... I call it the "Optimal Sun Time Plan"
Starting this Sunday we set our clocks back 1 hour making 2AM > 1AM, so we will end DST. However, on every Thursday (the day most businesses have extended hours during the week, especially small business) we set them forward 2 hours so we will have more daytime shopping after work. Now we ride that 2 hours forward until Saturday morning at 1AM, where we will set the clock back 2 hours so the bars can stay open longer (think of the money local pubs and taxi services will get?), then the following Sunday morning at 2AM we will set the clocks ahead those two hours, because who really wants to wake up early on a Sunday anyway? Then come Monday at 2AM we set them back an hour so we will all get an extra hour of sleep before heading into work. Then on Tuesday we set them back another hour at 1AM so we get another extra hour of sleep because Tuesday suck sometimes too. Then come Thursday we simply repeat the process.

2nd plan... I call it the "Who Gives a Sh*t Anymore Plan"
Set our clocks back a 1/2 hour this Sunday and never change them again.

[SheilaT]

72. Your first plan is The Best Plan Ever.

Plan 2 is what I'd vote for, if given the chance.

[krispos42]

31. If we're going to have two time zones in the CONUS...

...then quit dividing up states as well.

Eastern/Western time zone border should run between Minnesota and both Dakotas, then between Iowa and Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri, Oklahoma and Arkansas, and Texas and Louisiana.

Bing, bang, done.

[pangaia]

34. Ok, Here's my plan,,,

In the Eastern Time Zone...
Right now it gets light about 7 am in upstate NY and dark, oh maybe 6 ish.. (depends, of course how far north or south one lives)

So we set the clocks to have the lots of daylight.
OK, tonight we all set our clocks so it gets light at say 5:30 am. How's that? For all you folks going to they gym before work.
Then, at noon we turn the clock BACK a few hours so the sun sets at, oh 9:30 pm. Then, at mid-night, we set them ahead again by the same amount. We lose a few hours sleep but, what the heck.

That's just a suggestion. We can vote on what times we all prefer.
Of course the folks in the Florida Keys will have more sunlight than those in Bangor, to say nothing of people in Fairbanks. You guys are just shit our of luck in the winter.

[pangaia]

44. Good point.

Let me think on it.

[pangaia]

45. OK Got it.

During the week, we do the opposite. turn the clocks AHEAD at noon. like 2-3 hours.

[Silent3]

41. I think we should slow the rotation of the Earth to give us a 26 hour day.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Link Speed]

35. Doesn't matter to me. I sleep 'til I wake up and go to bed when I can't find my drink.

I don't have any sort of schedule, but I feel for folks who work and get home after dark.

[RebelOne]

46. Yup, same here. I am retired now, so it does not matter

what time I go to bed or wake up. But the time change always throws my body clock off.

[Link Speed]

57. Same here

Due to my background (ranching/farming) I can generally tell you the time of day within five or ten minutes. After a Time Change, it takes me maybe a week to reconfigure my body clock.

[SheilaT]

37. Only two time zones?

In a country that's four time zones wide? Really?

The only thing that would be truly stupider would be to suggest only one time zone for the entire country.

I like DST well enough, but it starts too early and ends too late anymore. Having DST end the Sunday after Halloween so that the little darlings can be trick-or-treating in daylight doesn't help much, because even with DST sunset is fairly early on the last day of October.

If I were Dictator of North America, I'd either start DST in the middle of April and end it in the middle of September. Or, I'd simply split the difference between ST and DST and move all the clocks to the half-hour point between the two year-round. Arizona can join whichever time zone it prefers.

[alphafemale]

50. It actually delayed most Trick or Treaters in my neighborhood

Except for a few weeuns? There was really no activity until around seven. At least dusk-ish.

And we had maybe two hundred I'd guess.

[SheilaT]

67. Where I am the sun is setting by six pm.

Obviously, sunrise and sunset times vary considerably depending on how far north or south you are, and how far east or west in your time zone.

With only two time zones there would be extreme variations in sunset and sunrise times between the eastern and western edges.

But I certainly recall never going out before dark when I was a kid. Of course, back then, DST ended far earlier, well before Halloween, and I lived in upstate New York.

A lot of the fun is going out in the dark.

[alphafemale]

69. Yeah. Daylight trick or treat is for toddlers/preschoolers.

The real stuff starts at dark.

Like a Drive In movie. Or Fireworks.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Perhaps not surprisingly, the "plan to fix it" is to get rid of it. Oh, and to put the entire West

Coast on Denver time.

No sale.

[jimlup]

40. Abolishing DST won't help you have more light in the evening...

It is just the opposite.

Extending DST to Nov.3 was a Republican "energy plan" I believe from back in the 90's. Like most Republican plan it causes more harm than good.

I actually think DST is OK but should only be in effect during the summer. Say June July and August only.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. It was more recent - 2007

when they moved DST from starting in April, to starting in March and extended it to the 1st week of November from the end of October. And I still haven't stopped screaming about it!!!

I remember back in '73 when Nixon had DST changed to January and I was going to school with a damn flashlight.

[DireStrike]

47. Why not just eliminate time zones altogether?

It would take some adjustment, but it would end all confusion forever. Everyone can tailor their own schedule to whatever the time "means" locally.

[MadrasT]

53. I'm all for that plan.

Everybody just use GMT.

[earthside]

52. I like this plan ...

... or going to Daylight Savings Time permanently.

I do think that in the 21st century we ought not need to reset our clocks twice a year.

[Scuba]

54. I like his idea of only having two time zones in the US ....

This year, Americans on Eastern Standard Time should set their clocks back one hour (like normal), Americans on Central and Rocky Mountain time do nothing, and Americans on Pacific time should set their clocks forward one hour. After that we won’t change our clocks again—no more daylight saving. This will result in just two time zones for the continental United States. The east and west coasts will only be one hour apart. Anyone who lives on one coast and does business with the other can imagine the uncountable benefits of living in a two-time-zone nation (excluding Alaska and Hawaii).

It sounds radical, but it really isn’t. The purpose of uniform time measures is coordination. How we measure time has always evolved with the needs of commerce. According to Time and Date, a Norwegian Newsletter dedicated to time zone information, America started using four time zones in 1883. Before that, each city had its own time standard based on its calculation of apparent solar time (when the sun is directly over-head at noon) using sundials. That led to more than 300 different American time zones. This made operations very difficult for the telegraph and burgeoning railroad industry. Railroads operated with 100 different time zones before America moved to four, which was consistent with Britain’s push for a global time standard. The following year, at the International Meridian Conference, it was decided that the entire world could coordinate time keeping based on the British Prime Meridian (except for France, which claimed the Prime Median ran through Paris until 1911). There are now 24 (or 25, depending on your existential view of the international date line) time zones, each taking about 15 degrees of longitude.

Now the world has evolved further—we are even more integrated and mobile, suggesting we’d benefit from fewer, more stable time zones. Why stick with a system designed for commerce in 1883? In reality, America already functions on fewer than four time zones. I spent the last three years commuting between New York and Austin, living on both Eastern and Central time. I found that in Austin, everyone did things at the same times they do them in New York, despite the difference in time zone. People got to work at 8 am instead of 9 am, restaurants were packed at 6 pm instead of 7 pm, and even the TV schedule was an hour earlier. But for the last three years I lived in a state of constant confusion, I rarely knew the time and was perpetually an hour late or early. And for what purpose? If everyone functions an hour earlier anyway, in part to coordinate with other parts of the country, the different time zones lose meaning and are reduced to an arbitrary inconvenience. Research based on time use surveys found American’s schedules are determined by television more than daylight. That suggests in effect, Americans already live on two time zones.

[MadrasT]

56. Winter time is standard time.

Ending DST would not give you more light at the end of the day in the winter. Ending the use of DST means it would get dark an hour earlier in the summer.

[tavalon]

58. I'm with you.

[AverageJoe90]

59. I'm not against DST as a whole, but it may not be needed everywhere, either.

I live in Texas and most of this state would probably function just fine if we pulled an Arizona-type deal and put most of the state outside El Paso on year-round Standard time(while also expanding Mountain Time to *all* counties west of the Pecos), but also letting the counties bordering Ark., La., and eastern Okla., and the Houston area, and maybe Austin as well keep DST(if not including D/FW too)......Amarillo, San Antonio, Lubbock, San Angelo, Wichita Falls and Midland/Odessa would be fine without it.

On the reverse, a special extension of DST would probably work well for southern California; for example, the earliest sunset times in LA actually tend to occur in late November/early December, and not around the solstice; and at 4:45 pm at that(Needles & Nipton wouldn't even make it to 4:30!). My suggestion would be to extend DST right up until about late Nov. at the earliest, even going so far as the solstice itself, perhaps, at least for those counties bordering Arizona, if not L.A. as well.

[SheilaT]

73. Back before the Uniform Daylight Savings Act

or whatever it was called, that went into effect in 1967, DST started and stopped at a bunch of different dates and localities across the nation. It was extremely confusing.

That year, 1967, was the only year Arizona did DST. I was living there then. All it did was insure that a person working normal hours got off work into the worst of the heat of the day. Yuck.

In other places, it made for a nice, lovely, long daylit evening after work. Of course, for all those who work shift work that gets them off work at 8pm or later, it hardly matters.

I currently work 4pm to 8pm, and what I enjoy about DST is that for about two and a half months I get off work in full daylight. It's nice. By the beginning of October, even still being on DST, I get off in the dark, and it invariably feels much later than it does in July. Purely psychological, I know. But it means I pay a great deal of attention to how much daylight I have at 8pm. I really notice the first faint glimmers of fading light sometime in April.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

61. Daylight savings is a tool of oppression

LOL. The funny stuff I read on DU.

[ThoughtCriminal]

62. One of the benefits of living in Arizona

Our legislature may be tea-bagger crazy, but even they know enough to vote down DST whenever some new guy comes in and proposes we join in.

Not having to deal with this delusion twice a year is nice.


Wait.. THAT WAS MY 10,000th post???? After I spent weeks trying to think of something eloquent and profound?

[davidpdx]

70. I'm going to working on a DBA and the school I'm going to is in Arizona

(no it's not UofP). It's a pain to remember they are running on their own time zone when the clock gets changed back and forth. Our assignments are due at 11:59 pm Sunday and I live in South Korea.

I really thing if the US is going to have DST everyone should go along with it. If I remember right there is one another part of the country that does that as well.

[FreeJoe]

64. I'd just scrap DST

Maybe it's because I haven't worked a job without flex time since college, but I have never really seen the point in DST. If I want to get up earlier or later at different times of the year, I do. I don't need anyone to tell me when I need to make that shift. I could at least see the argument when people scheduled their lives around TV shows, but with DVRs, even that excuse seems meaningless.

Pick one time frame and stick with it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. It sounds like it is because you haven't worked a job without flex time since college, then

You are surely aware that many people do have jobs with fixed hours - schools, stores, service offices, factories, etc. It's those that have always mattered, not the TV.

"If I want to get up earlier or later at different times of the year, I do. "

And for those whose work hours are fixed by someone else, a general agreement to alter that to vaguely follow sunrise is the way they get to wake up earlier in summer, and later in winter, which is what people want.

[Dawson Leery]

65. kick

[ChazII]

68. One of the lucky times to live in Arizona. n/t

[davidpdx]

71. I like daylight savings time

But they don't use it here in Korea. My understanding is they did for a few years and then scrapped it. We've had a fundy govt for 5 1/2 years and have 4 1/2 more. I doubt it will change.

[LWolf]

75. DST is fine.

It's the twice a year shift that is hard. I just want one time. DST, standard time, JUST PICK ONE, and stop fucking with my body clock.

My personal preference is for DST; getting darker an hour earlier in the day is really hard on me during the dark season.

As for the plan in the link...I'm fine with that, especially since it shifts my end of the country an hour EARLIER, rather than later. The selling point, though, is NO MORE CLOCK CHANGES.

[roamer65]

77. No way do I want sunlight starting at 4'ish in the morning in summer.

For those of us in more northern latitudes that is what will happen if we stay on standard time. If we are going to stick to one time I would like to see the eastern time zone go to GMT -4 permanently.

In other words, permanent DST.

[gopiscrap]

78. interesting

[DirkGently]

79. Rather keep DST year round. Which

I think has also been proposed. I get more out of late day sunlight than super early morning.

The switch is a needless hassle.

[roamer65]

80. I agree. Put us on Atlantic time permanently. GMT -4.

Makes sense for the eastern time zone. I don't mind dark mornings in the winter. I hate the sun coming up way too early as it is in June. Standard time in summers would make it worse.