Bill Moyers: Why are the contents of the TPP being deliberately kept from the American people?

[marmar]

http://vimeo.com/78324869


Yves Smith and Dean Baker on Secrets in Trade
November 1, 2013


A US-led trade deal is currently being negotiated that could increase the price of prescription drugs, weaken financial regulations and even allow partner countries to challenge American laws. But few know its substance.

The pact, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is deliberately shrouded in secrecy, a trade deal powerful people, including President Obama, don’t want you to know about. More than 130 members of Congress have asked the White House for greater transparency about the negotiations and were essentially told to go fly a kite. While most of us are in the dark about the contents of the deal, which Obama aims to seal by year end, corporate lobbyists are in the know about what it contains.

And some vigilant independent watchdogs are tracking the negotiations with sources they trust, including Dean Baker and Yves Smith, who join Moyers & Company this week. Both have written extensively about the TPP and tell Bill the pact actually has very little to do with free trade.

Instead, says Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, “This really is a deal that’s being negotiated by corporations for corporations and any benefit it provides to the bulk of the population of this country will be purely incidental.” Yves Smith, an investment banking expert who runs the Naked Capitalism blog adds: “There would be no reason to keep it so secret if it was in the interest of the public.”


http://billmoyers.com/segment/yves-smith-and-dean-baker-on-secrets-in-trade/

[Cal Carpenter]

1. Ha

2 of my favorite bloggers.

Hope to get a chance to watch the vid, thanks for the post.

[Newsjock]

2. I've lost track: Was Bill Moyers already under the bus?

Or are we supposed to push him there tonight? Where's the handy reference card?

[progressoid]

3. Yup, under.

He was not welcome in the bus owned and operated by corporations.

[fascisthunter]

38. it's not a "bus"... it's a centrist parade float made to look larger

than it it really is.

[Newsjock]

39. Ah, it's the DU TARDIS

Exterminate.

[marmar]

93. ROFL

Screams from the "Amen" corner .......

[liberal_at_heart]

4. "There would be no need to keep it so secret if it was in the interest of the public." Exactly.

[antigop]

5. HA! Posted in video forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017155918

[marmar]

6. I just watched it again.

This deal must be stopped, somehow.

[L0oniX]

47. The assholes who sell us out to corporations need to be stopped.

[MindMover]

7. TPP = Yes ---- Pipeline = No, The trade has already happened ...

[liberal_at_heart]

8. That's an interesting conclusion. If it would mean more power and profit down the road I could

see the corporations being willing to sacrifice the pipeline for the TPP.

[jtuck004]

22. Keystone XL delay won’t stop Canada’s oil sands growth: RBC

...
Shipping crude by rail would pick up any slack from a failed Keystone, the analysts said in a report released late Tuesday. If Keystone is not approved, some 300,000 barrels of oil a day in oil sands growth could be deferred for later years, but not stopped.

Spending at the oil sands is likely to peak in 2016 at $29.7 billion if the pipeline, which is part of a system connecting the tar sands output to refineries in the Gulf of Mexico, is built; or $27.9 billion by the same year if Keystone is not approved.

Financing is the biggest challenge for the oil sands, which, by the way, the RBC analysts want you to stop thinking of as “marginal barrel.”

Canada produces 1.8 million barrels a day of oil from the tar sands — more than half the nation’s daily production.
...

Here.

People seem to be under the impression that if a pipeline isn't built this won't be economically feasible, yet it is already happening. (The train that burned up the people in the tavern in Canada was part of it).

To push the stuff, thick and gooey, through a pipeline requires a liquefying agent which costs $100 a barrel. They can just load it in a train car and it's ready to go. So while the profits may be decreased a little, there is still a lot of money to be made. And it is being made now.

[MindMover]

46. Exactly ... there is no need to build the pipeline ...

[L0oniX]

48. Yep ...heard all about the trains ...refineries getting set up for the trains.

[karynnj]

82. This may not be completely the case

As with any extraction, the cost goes up as you get to the more difficult to extract stuff. The point when a company stops is when the cost to get the oil, transport it and process it becomes too high to make a profit given the price they can get. Now if price goes up, more can be extracted economically.

Where the pipeline comes in is that it is wanted because it lowers the cost of getting the oil to a place where it can be processed and then sold. This will change the point where it is economically feasible to continue extracting. The ONLY way this is not true is if the pipeline is not cheaper - and then they would not want it.

[jtuck004]

84. Yeah, that article touches on that, and there are many more. But

because the stuff is so thick, and I have experience with a bit of pipeline work in my past, they have to treat it just to get through, and that isn't cheap.

Trains, however, can move the stuff without treatment, so the cost differential is reduced by quite a bit. And while they can't make as much, the trains that are actually carrying it, and the upgrades and investment that are occurring right now to work around the pipeline delay stand as testimony to the fact that it is certainly somewhat profitable for the people at the top.

[karynnj]

98. I have absolutely no pipeline experience - and was just stating Econ 102 from decades ago! nt

[jtuck004]

99. They would prefer the pipeline be built, because even with the expense

it would enable even more profit, with expenses and damage laid on someone else. But they are not letting that stop them from sucking up all they can in the meantime. And that helps finance their fight for it as well.

[rhett o rick]

88. Why cant they have both? Dont tell me someone is worried about the reaction of the "crazy left". nm

[hopemountain]

68. that! or the pipeline

is a diversion to keep the peasants entertained whilst the corporate pigs work their evil.

[MindMover]

75. Well if you want to put it that way ...

[octoberlib]

9. Excellent interviews! Thanks for posting nt

[leftstreet]

10. DURec

[woo me with science]

11. K&R

[Populist_Prole]

12. Hope this is one of many green shoots of media attention

May it prime the pump and generate yet more. My hopes are the buzz created will play to the MSM's short-term greed for coverage/airtime/ad revenue, even though we know their corporate masters know that it'll work against them in the long game.

[Ed Suspicious]

13. Enlightening and frightening.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

14. Too late.

[ctsnowman]

15. “There would be no reason to keep it so secret if it was in the interest of the public.”

[L0oniX]

42. Yea ...that one really stands out ....soooooooooooo obvious.

[pa28]

16. Watching this intelligent and informative show is a half hour well spent.

Yves take on president Obama's deception over trade issues during the 2008 campaign and the accompanying footage of his comments was difficult to watch I have to say.

[L0oniX]

43. Has the BOG banned all Moyers talking points yet?

I can guess can't I?

[jsr]

17. Recommend.

[madfloridian]

18. We going to need a bigger, longer bus. There's no room left with so many under it.

Those of us already under there have taken up all the room...gotta make room for Moyers now.

[liberal_at_heart]

19. madfloridian, great to see you posting. My education guru.

[Enthusiast]

24. No problem.

They are building a Vietnam bus production line as we speak. These facilities have the capacity to build super extra long buses, buses so long that it will stagger the imagination.

[ReRe]

20. If you want to attend the college of truth....

... just go watch all of Bill Moyers & Co video clips. Can get via PBS or at Billmoyers.com

He and all guests cut to the chase and reveal facts, something we get very little of, if any, from MSM.

[jtuck004]

21. K&R. I have been talking this up to people, most really don't like being kept in the dark. n/t

[Enthusiast]

23. If the TPP was in the interest of the American people there would be no reason

for all the secrecy.

The TPP is another betrayal of the American people and it is being led by YOUR President.

[jsr]

35. It's a sad truth

[Enthusiast]

25. This needs many kicks and many more recommendations.

Come on, people!

[solarhydrocan]

26. Ms. Clinton is not amused

with this anti TPP talk

[L0oniX]

44. Geee ...why am I not surprised.

[awoke_in_2003]

52. A certain Who song comes to mind. nt

[red dog 1]

70. "I want it, I want it, I want it.." (Obama)

"..You can't have it"..(Progressive Dems like Bill Moyers)

[awoke_in_2003]

73. I was thinking

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

on edit: before I get totally slammed, I am not saying that dems and reps are equal in all things. What I am saying is that when it comes to sucking up to corporate interests in order to fuck the american worker, reps and corporate dems (the majority of the party) agree totally.

[red dog 1]

74. Your "Who" song is more appropriate to the OP

But I love "Magic Bus" ...it was one of their first hits (off their first album, I think)

[awoke_in_2003]

78. And I don't want it misunderstood...

I am not saying both parties are the same in everything, but when it comes to "free" trade both parties are ready to screw us over.

[red dog 1]

79. I thought Barack Obama would be a different kind of POTUS..

...when it came to things like "free trade"....but I guess I was wrong.

[awoke_in_2003]

83. you have to sell out to get that office. nt

[red dog 1]

85. You might want to read reply # 60 by polichick..

Maybe you don't have to sell out to get that office; although it would probably be an uphill battle.

[hopemountain]

69. ka-ching! millions in corporate money

added to her campaign coffers

[xchrom]

27. du rec.

[adirondacker]

28. "This, to my mind, is quite a SCANDAL" Dean Baker.

Corporatacracy, it's official.

[KansDem]

29. K&R

TPP = "Trans-Pacific Phuckyou"

[AzDar]

30. K & R

[polichick]

31. Corporate lobbyists write a lot of legislation...

and both parties are fine with that - at the leader level.

Dem voters have to change the kind of leader we select.

[marmar]

34. Es verdad.

[polichick]

61. I had to look that up - learn something new every day!

[Cannikin]

40. Difficult when those same corporations pre-select...

the candidates we're allowed to choose from. The ones that won't play ball don't get their campaigns financed.

[polichick]

60. That's why imo the only thing voters can do right now is draft a candidate...

so to speak - get behind somebody early on, encourage him or her to run, and then provide the funds through online networks. If people are already behind the candidate, there will be lot less need for huge ad budgets. Right now those budgets are needed to con the people into buying the corporate candidate.

[red dog 1]

81. "Elizabeth Warren surges in new Prez poll"

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/us_politics/2013/10/elizabeth_warren_surges_in_new_prez_poll/

[polichick]

91. Now we're talking!

[dotymed]

50. You are right.

When Yves said that Obama's candidacy went beyond the norm for LYING about his actual, post-election actions, I agree.
"They" will say anything to be elected and it is out of control.
I think impeachment of serial liars is appropriate. Not from the tea party though.

[polichick]

59. So true what you say about demanding a cost for lying...

Right now lying really pays off.

[pa28]

53. I thought we were selecting a different kind of leader.

In Moyer's clip from the 2008 campaign Obama is telling us we need to renegotiate NAFTA and stop letting lobbyists write trade deals.

Both of those comments were straight up lies.

[polichick]

58. It's perhaps not polite to say so, but both Clinton and Obama...

are con men when campaigning. (As is true for most politicians.)

[L0oniX]

97. How dare you sir! Obama does not lie ...not ever!

[Starry Messenger]

32. K&R

[sendero]

33. Doesn't Congress have to pass this?

I mean it not going to be some kind of Executive Order is it?

FWIW as far as I can tell the best shot taken against this happening was the NSA foreign-spying revelations. Some folks are not interested in letting the WH call the tune at the present moment.

[bvar22]

62. President Obama is asking for "Fast Track Authority" on these trade talks.

That means no amendments,
and a straight Up or Down vote.
51% wins.

The vote will probably occur after midnight on a weekend,
so our "representatives" can slink off and hide before the Sun comes up,
and have time to get their Cover Story together about how this is ALL somebody else's fault.



You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]
not by their promises or excuses.

[Oilwellian]

36. TPP is that brick wall Zappa referred to

and Congress will pass it.

[adirondacker]

37. I'm sure there will be plenty of little prizes to hand out to the critters. nt

[Martin Eden]

41. Has anyone told President Obama about this yet??

I'm sure he'll put a stop to it, once he sees what's going on

[L0oniX]

45. Go post about it in the BOG.

[bvar22]

64. Has nobody flashed the Bat Signal for The Swarm yet?

It is quiet, Tonto.
Too quiet.

[adirondacker]

65. I feel this one might take some timely groupthink to defend. nt

[bvar22]

87. Thanks, Jury.

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

"The Swarm" is a disparaging term used against a certain group of people on DU:

People that are fans of a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT...

Harrassment of FANS OF DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS shouldn't occur on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND...

If you want to be a far-left moonbat, go to Revleft and have a communal circlejerk with the rest of the subhuman trash.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Nov 2, 2013, 04:43 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: The alerters comments need to be toned down too. But I'm sick of the 'swarm' comments as well and as part of this community I'm voting to hide. I wouldn't be opposed to alerting on the person that left the comments for this alert, as they are unacceptable as well.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: "The Swarm" is an well earned, apt descriptive term. The comments left by the Alerter is a clue to their not so tolerant mind-set.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: "have a communal circlejerk with the rest of the subhuman trash." Is there some way both the alrertee and the alerted could be sent away?

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: I realize I am probably going to be the minority vote on this post, but the ODS posts and insults to the BOG need to stop already. Hide.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Thank You, Jury.

The ALERT was much worse.
Crude, aggressive, dripping with venom, well outside the acceptable boundaries for interaction at DU, and....did I say CRUDE yet?
Isn't it ironic that these kinds of attacks can hide behind the facade on being concerned about the quality of comments at DU?

I would also point out that I am a supporter of President Obama,
and a loyal Democrat. He was certainly much better than the other choice.
I voted, donated, and campaigned for him.
I did THIS in a very Red, rural area risking injury and damage to person and property.



That said, I will NEVER support or assist:
* another"Free Trade" Treaty
There are 2 in the works, the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership, and the TTIP (Trans Atlantic Investment Partnership

* ANY Cuts to Social Security,
or even putting it On-the-Table in budget negotiations

*Expanding and Extending our Imperial War Machine
(especially the Drone Assassinations)

...or any of the other NeoLiberal/Conservative economic Policies that dominate his administration.
I have been a loyal Liberal Democrat FAR too long to believe that I MUST agree with everything our President says or does, and pity anyone who mistakes that kind of blind allegiance for "supporting the president".
It is especially onerous when this kind of "loyalty" is demanded of everyone else.

Sincerely,
bvar22

[L0oniX]

96. ^^^this^^^

[Marr]

89. lol! They don't engage on this topic, I've noticed.

They just sort of wait for it to sink.

[hopemountain]

71. as a loyal member of the bog,

i find the tpp as concerning as bill moyers. in addition, your constant attacks on the bog are not funny. stop.

[L0oniX]

95. Ah ...another one to add to my ignore dungeon.

[jsr]

51. Multi-dimensional chess is not for mortals.

Sometimes the players don't even know they're playing it.

[7962]

66. He hasn't seen it in the papers yet!

Seems as though thats how he gets most of his news, according to him.......

[Cleita]

49. Good discussion.

Too bad we don't see reporting like this in the MSM.

[proverbialwisdom]

54. Yesterday, c-span 3, TPP lobbying.

http://www.c-span.org/Events/International-Trade-Summit-Promotes-Investing-in-the-US/10737442434-1/

MUST CLICK LINK TO SEE VIDEO (01:36:43):
Commerce Dept.: SelectUSA Investment Summit (right-click to copy direct link)

International Trade Summit Promotes Investing in the U.S.

WASHINGTON, DC
Friday, November 1, 2013

Top administration officials, including Secretary of State John Kerry and Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker, kick off the second day of the SelectUSA 2013 Investment Summit, hosted by the Commerce Department, International Trade Administration and SelectUSA.

The morning events feature a speech by Secretary of State Kerry on the benefits of investing in the U.S. and a plenary discussion on the value of U.S. free-trade agreements, moderated by New York Times columnist David Brooks.

The SelectUSA Summit is the first-of-its-kind trade conference, bringing together international businesses and investors with economic development organizations from around the country.

Updated: Friday at 10:27am (ET)

[Teamster Jeff]

55. Penny Pritzker......It's like a bad joke

[WillyT]

56. K & R !!!

[Uncle Joe]

57. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, marmar.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. We need more Snowdens and Mannings to let us know what "our" gov't is doing.

[red dog 1]

72. + 1000

We need more journalists like Bill Moyers too.

[TeamPooka]

67. K&R! a must watch video

[indepat]

76. Now someone please convince me ours is not a corporatist government

[colsohlibgal]

77. Shame On Big Media, Including MSNBC

It's all shiny objects and precious little about this dastardly agreement, so much more than a normal trade agreement and so much worse.

if anyone has any doubts that Obama is not really a true progressive educate yourself about this bill - calling all Obamabots, this will shake your dogged loyalty to the bone. I voted for the guy twice - reluctantly the 2nd time but it was just one more vote against rather than enthusiastically for. I and a lot of others on the so called "professional left" are tired of holding our noses.

[red dog 1]

80. K&R

Thanks for posting, marmar.

[Mosaic]

86. Just a note

RT America was talking about this over a year ago.

[bvar22]

90. DURec, and kick for wider exposure.

There are too few truth tellers left.

[blkmusclmachine]

92. .

.

[cantbeserious]

94. The Oligarchs, Billionaires And Millionaires Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us

eom