My friend couldn't use her own bank card without her bank's permission.

[Justice wanted]

Have "protecting customers" gone overboard.

I give you 2 examples.


1) My friens recently moved back to the Western PA area. She started 3 bank accounts and got 2 Visa/MAC cards. So She's about 20 mins away from the Ohio line and likw most of us she decided to go to the malls over in ohio. Before getting to the mall she decided to get gas and wanted to use her Bank card to get the gas. The first card was rejected at the pump. So she decided to go into the store and prepaid. Again neither one of the cards could be used. She decided to use a regular credit card. She was upset about it because she had over 4,000 in the one account and 10,000 in the other. She was pissed and went back home instead of shopping. She called the bank to find out why she couldn't use the cards. Turns out Because she wasn't in her "alotted zone" the funds are frozen and it is flag as a possible stolen card. She was basically told by her bank that IF she wants to use her cards outside of the Zone they listed her cards as being able to use she had to call them to let them know she was going out of the are and PLEASE don't keep my money Frozen.

She quickly closed those accounts and found a bank that wasn't going to do that to her.

2) My Aunt lives in PA. She has a daughter living in California. So naturally my aunt goes out to visit her daughter and grandkids. At one visit she wanted to go to a retail chain store with a store card. She decided to take the grandkids to the store to buy them clothes. She went to check out and use the store card she had. Well for some reason the process is taking longer than it should. Suddenly her cell phone rings. It is the Corporate office of that store asking why she had not reported her card as stolen because they see someone is trying to use it in California. My aunt informed the person on the line that her card WAS NOT stolen and asked how much do they monitor her transactions? The woman got snippy with my aunt saying THEY where protecting her best interest and IF she wanted to use her card she should have informed them she was traveling.


Too me I think it has gotten too crazy and stupid.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. This happened to me in Japan

and fortunately, I had enough cash to pay my first night's hotel bill. I sent an angry e-mail to my bank, reminding them that I had warned them about my upcoming trip. By the next morning (late evening U.S. time) they had apologized and unfrozen my account.

Since then, I always warn the banks ahead of time that I'm traveling out of my area and carry two debit cards and two credit cards in case one of the banks screws up.

So far, so good.

It's a hassle if you don't know about it, but in two cases, the banks DID catch unauthorized uses of my debit cards, once when someone who was evidently very young got hold of my number and bought all sorts of things that I would never buy, and once when I was the victim of a pickpocket.

[Snake Alchemist]

24. I notified one credit card when I traveled to Japan.

Used it once without any problem. We had brought a few thousand dollars in yen though. We actually had to buy a frog change purse to carry all the coins.

An older gentleman joked that we were rich because we had paper money.

[karynnj]

27. For several years, the banks have asked that you notify them before out of country (or even out of

area travel.) We learned this when we were called when my daughter went to Berlin for a semester. Her card is connected to ours and all have our home phone and address. It was fixed pretty quickly, but we were surprised as we had traveled overseas before and had never had a problem. (My daughter had assumed that the problem was related to the pin and had used a credit card that did work.)

I think the banks did a pretty bad job informing people of the increased AI that is used to flag suspected fraud. I have no problem telling the banks, but I really dislike that this could have stranded us - as no one would have answered the home phone.

[Art_from_Ark]

48. The opposite happened to me

On my last visit to the US, I tried to use a Japanese credit card at a US gas station, and it was denied. A different Japanese card went through with no problem. Almost the minute I walked in the door at my house when I returned to Japan, I got a call from the first credit card company about the "suspicious" activity in the US.

[immoderate]

2. Is this typical?

--imm

[Justice wanted]

3. I think it is becoming the norm. My aunt and Friend aren't the first people I heard about these

stories BUT they are the first I personally.

[yellerpup]

5. Our banker in NC asked us to let them know

when we were going to be traveling or out of the area so they would not suspect that our card had been stolen.

[Liberal_in_LA]

22. yes. Happened to me when I went on vacation. bank for protecting me from theft

They also cut off the card when I made multiple charges at a Jack-in-the-box in one day. Said the purchases weren't typical of me. thought the card was stolen. Yeah, it's annoying but I'm glad they are looking out for me. (really, looking out for themselves because they would have replace the stolen funds)

[silverweb]

4. My credit union calls me if anything seems suspicious.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Their computer spits out any transactions that seem apart from my usual patterns. They did it a few times until they got a handle on my occasional travels and spending habits. I've thanked them for it.

In your friend's case and your aunt's case, I do think the banks in question should have made advance inquiries about "territory" and warned that they might put a hold on the card if there's suspicion of theft. At least your aunt got a phone call at the store, which was good.

I also thank cashiers who ask for ID.

Identity theft is a huge and growing problem. A little advance planning and cooperation with your bank/credit card company goes a long way.

[LanternWaste]

7. My credit union does the same thing.

My credit union does the same thing.

A little advanced planning on my part is certainly more welcome than unauthorized charges being billed to my account.

[silverweb]

46. Too true!

n/t

[Mosby]

9. Cashiers who ask for ID are violating the agreement the co. has with cc companies

FYI.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. They can ASK for ID without violating the agreement. It's REQUIRING it that's a violation

in most circumstances (one of the exceptions is when the card is unsigned.)
So when a cashier asks to see ID, I politely decline and say that no ID is required. Most of the time that's enough.


See here, pg 34 or so for VISA's description of it:
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf



eta on the OP: most large credit card issuers use algorithms to predict whether the usage is fraudulent. Those systems are pretty good at it. I've had a motel bill payment held up because it was in a tourist area and the owner kept trying to run the charge through each day and it triggered a fraud alert. The problem was related to the expiration date -- I had booked the rooms just before the card renewed.

[silverweb]

47. That's stupid.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I like it when they make sure I'm the authorized user.

[SoCalDem]

6. We used our cards liberally in Tahiti, but it was a while back

We were never asked for ID ..they just swiped the card & off we went

I have called Discover (our only credit card) to alert them that we were planning a large expense..just to make sure there would be no problem.

A couple of years ago I treated Dad & the three sons to a ride in a B-25 plane & since it was in Mountainview , and for $1800.00, I did not want my husband to have an issue on flight day. I do recall telling the credit card agent I spoke to about how I felt odd ..like I was asking for permission to spend my own money, even though we had a credit for it. (I had sent Discover the money in advance)

It's a sign of the times I guess

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Used to happen to me a lot when I went overseas

I got in the habit of notifying the bank and finally they just made it permanent. I can see both sides of this one.

[Brickbat]

10. Last year we made a major purchase on a credit card and the store recommended that we call the

issuing bank to let them know what we were about to do, because often that kind of a purchase gets flagged. We did so, the bank was happy to hear from us, and everything went smoothly.

We've also been called by issuing banks when they see what they think are unauthorized purchases, and in one case they were, so I was happy to get the call. I've never had a credit card turned down, but then, I mostly use a cash card.

[Mariana]

11. My bank and my credit union do that, too.

It's not exactly a great hardship to call the number on the back of the card and authorize the purchase. I think it's a good thing they're being careful with my accounts. It still beats writing a check that may or may not be accepted, or having to go to the bank during their open hours to withdraw cash all the time.

I believe credit and debit cards are actually the property of the issuing bank. When I used to work as a cashier, sometimes we'd have to call for authorization on a credit card or debit card purchase. From time to time we'd be requested to confiscate a customer's card (if it was safe to do so) and send it in to the issuing company.

[matt819]

12. Check with the bank first

We use a business debit card throughout the US. A couple of years ago we had a similar problem, which was particularly embarrassing since we were trying to use it to pay for dinner with clients. Whoops. I called the bank the next day. It turns out they have a policy of disallowing debit card use in certain states where fraudulent use of these cards is high - Texas, Florida, and a handful of others. The block was as much for my protection as theirs. While debit cards do not enjoy the same protection as credit cards, my bank, at least, has refunded my card for fraudulent use a few times (probably skimmed at a gas station), but they want to limit these losses, and I can't blame them (community bank, the supposed good guys).

Once I learned of this, all I do is tell the bank when the card will be used out of state. Minor irritant, if that, and problem solved. By the way, they or the card processing company call every now and then when the card is flagged for what the system advises is unusual activity. Again, when they first started doing this, it was irritating. But after I thought about it I came to the conclusion that it's not a bad idea. Again, minor irritant, but in the overall scheme of things, one I can live with.

As for the snippy bank employee referred to in the post, I guess I am fortunate. I have a pretty good working relationship with my bank, and snippiness, on their part or mine, is not part of the equation.

[woo me with science]

14. I can see some people wanting this service as a protective measure, BUT

it should be opt-in, in my opinion.

Nobody should ever be required to notify theiir bank when they intend to travel. That just reeks of Big Brother in an increasingly corporate-ruled state.

[Zalatix]

21. I'm conflicted on that.

If there's a fraudulent purchase I want it to be prevented. However it is annoying if I fly from Los Angeles to Houston, which can be done in about 3 or so hours, and make a purchase, and I have to verify it with the bank.

I would much rather opt to prevent swipes and force all transactions to be done by ATM so my pin # is used. Of course then there's the issue of skimming...

[Occulus]

36. I do appreciate the service when it's not restrictively implemented

but the examples in the OP go a bit too far in both cases.

It should be a mandatory confirm-or-deny when the card is activated, with a clearly communicated method of altering the theft protection feature indicated at that time. Since most cards these days, even from credit unions, are activated over a telephone call, this would be a trivially implemented improvement.

[Justice wanted]

42. I didn't go too Far THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED in BOTH cases.

[Occulus]

44. I meant *they* went a bit too far

They, the banks.

Sorry for the confusion. It wasn't directed at you.

[Justice wanted]

45. I am sorry. I understand people on the board understanding the bank side BUT I personally think

the banks went too far and no ones safety should compromise the freedom to purchase.

[metalbot]

50. Would you be willing to assume liability for fraudulent charges?

The nice thing about credit cards in the US is that you have no liability for fraudulent charges. If someone steals your card, and you report it stolen, you aren't responsible for the charges made on the card before you report your card is stolen. You are 100% protected. What does that protection mean? It means that either the bank or the merchant is going to eat the charges for the things that were charged to your card. Would you really opt-out if the alternative were that you were responsible for unauthorized charges on your card?

You can't have it both ways (i.e. the bank takes this hit if your card is stolen, but they aren't allowed to flag your card for suspicious activity).

The flip side of the OP's example is that my parents received a call from Citibank last week that their card had been used to purchase something at a Windam Hotel in Baltimore. They weren't in Baltimore. Clearly, their card HAD been compromised, and the thieves were testing the card for a small purchase. This was sufficient to trigger a fraud alert, and Citibank called my parents. My parents, who were NOT travelling in Baltimore, were able to indicate that the card was compromised, and they had a new one two days later.

About 10 year ago, my parents were in Paris, and my father had his pocket picked on the subway. He realized it immediately, and called his credit card companies. They said "no problem - we blocked the transactions anyways since they threw up fraud problems".

This is a system that is working, not a broken system.

If your transaction is denied when you try to purchase something, just call the number on the back of the card. They'll clear fraud warnings, and you'l be on your way.

[COLGATE4]

15. I had it happen to me twice when

I tried to pay my Dentist in a Florida city other then where I live. The second time I read them the Riot Act over the phone, and they then tried to claim it was because of some $20.86 I had charged in a convenience store prior to getting a Root Canal. Bastards.

[woodsprite]

16. We've had good and bad experiences with this.

The bad experience was the first time. We were traveling and hadn't been told that we needed to notify the bank. By the time we got to our destination, we couldn't use our cards to pay for our camping. We had to use all of our cash while the bank cleared our cards for use. We had stopped in every state between Delaware and NC on the same day to buy lunch, get gas, snacks etc. Then in NC we pulled into the campground.

Now, I prepay for camping AND carry enough cash to get us through the first week, just in case.

A year or so ago we had to put a fraud notification on our card. After that they would call whenever something totally out of the ordinary was purchased or if anything was over $50 (I think). We bought a sofa and sure enough, they called hubby on his cell phone to have us authorize the purchase. We were standing right at the cashier.

A few days ago the bank called because they had several $1.99 charges to our Debit card (hubby's fault for using that one) for some overseas web gaming company, then a $500 transaction to Hewlett Packard. They put the $500 back in our account and are trying to track down the culprit. They asked us to officially dispute the $1.99 charges. We think lax handling of paperwork at the place we store our trailer is at fault. We have a dedicated credit card only for them now. If something odd gets charged to it, they'll know where it came from.

[mrmpa]

17. In 2003 I was in Ireland, 2 weeks after we invaded Iraq......

used my bank card extensively, never a problem. In 2005 I was in Germany, Italy, Austria & Greece, again used my bank card, including withdrawal from ATM's. Never a problem. Cards were issued by a western Pennsylvania bank.

[monmouth]

18. I e-mailed my bank about an upcoming trip and where I was going. No problems...n/t

[Tracer]

19. Last week, I was bombarded with phone calls and mail from my CC company's...

... Fraud Detection Unit. They wanted me to call them ASAP.

I went online to my account and saw no unusual charges, but called them anyway.

They wanted to know about a $19.95 charge.

I told them that I had made that purchase and said I couldn't see why they were flagging that one. I could understand if the charge was $1,995.00 ---- but $19.95??!?

[quakerboy]

33. Makes sense to me

Every time Ive had a card number stolen, they start with some sort of online purchase, either 14.95 or 19.95, I assume to check the number is active. Then a day or so later, then start dropping on the big charges.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. I had a card stolen in Europe that someone attempted to use in Cairo.

Ever since, I call my issuer when I travel and give them the dates and location (including any layovers) so as not to have a problem. Last thing you want is to have a purchase declined where you aren't fluent in the language - especially if you are paying for a meal you just ate.

Yes, it could be less intrusive, but if someone has a better idea on how to protect from identity theft and illegal use of a stolen credit card, I am all ears.

[Mosby]

23. im curious about what cc's people in this thread used

I have had merchant accounts for going on 20 years, from what I have seen with my customers, amex is by far the worst with this type of thing.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. They aren't her cards - they belong to the bank

And she doesn't "have" money in the accounts - that's money she owes.

[Justice wanted]

28. NO IT WAS A DEBIT CARD! TWO CHECKING ACCOUNTS! HER MONEY!

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. You said "bank cards." A bank card is generally considered to be a credit card.

Sorry - miscommunication.

[Justice wanted]

30. You never got a Bank MAC card with a VISA logo on it to access your account or accounts?

[Dreamer Tatum]

31. You were not sufficiently clear that they were debit cards. nt

[YellowRubberDuckie]

26. The people at my bank are so nice that I don't mind calling them.

I also work for them. LOL But I understand where they are coming from. It is in their best interest as well. It saved my ass once that I never go to the south side of Oklahoma City. Someone had stolen my card number. I discovered it after $70 of purchases at a grocery store on the south side that I had never heard of and phone calls to New Jersey. They put the money back into my account within three days. I'd like that they care enough to make sure my card hadn't been stolen. I think it's great customer service.
If we travel, we call the bank and let them know. It's not hard. I have them on speed dial. =)

[quakerboy]

32. The second is less troubling than the first

Some years back, I was able to take my card around the nation, and later across the ocean, without any difficulty. Even in more recent years, I had no trouble taking it to Canada or other states. I've never had it straight up denied anywhere anytime.

Ive gotten those "Your card is being used at x merchant in x state, is this a legitimate use?" calls. 2 out of the three times, it was an unauthorized use. I was darn glad they called me, and the third one didn't bother me at all.

The "why didn't you report it stolen" is a bit presumptuous, and when it turned out she was using her own card, and apology with explanation that they flag any out of state or off pattern purchases would have been in order. Anyone who thinks that the various financial companies involved in their life are not datamining the hell out of us at every possible opportunity is just flat naive.

But if they call to ask, I am glad. That shows they are paying attention and trying to prevent fraud. The first one is a little more problematic. That would piss me off, and I would probably switch banks as well. Due diligence does not include blocking my access to my own funds without a damn good reason.

The one that I wonder about are the touchless cards. Unless its illegal, I would be surprised if they are not at least plotting how to register even walking past a checkout so that they can follow your browsing even when you do not buy.

[catchnrelease]

34. It's definitely a two edged sword

I've had calls to verify activity on my card account in the past, and I do appreciate that the credit union that issued the card watches out for this.

But, last Nov I flew to Houston to attend a quilt show there, and did purchase a couple of items with my credit card. The day I was waiting in the airport to fly home, I tried to purchase some food and the card was declined. I couldn't figure it out, and just paid with cash. When I called the cu to find out what the problem was, they said that they had frozen the account because of suspicious activity. When I said--no, it's me using it, and verified that--they unfroze the account right away.

The thing that makes me kind of mad is that first, the tickets to Houston had been purchased, at home few weeks earlier, with the same card. I would think they could see that connection in the records, or checked with me at that time. And, the kicker is, when they were trying to verify the activity, they called my home, talked to my husband who said, "She's not here, she's in Houston" and still froze the account. It turned out ok in the end, but if I'd needed the card to pay for my room or something big, I'd have been screwed.

I don't travel out of state much anymore, so didn't know this was an issue, but apparently letting them know in advance is the safest way to go. I do agree it's kind of unnerving to have to let some corp know of your plans and whereabouts. I suppose they will know and can track you when you use the cards anyway.

[csziggy]

35. While we were building our house I pre-notified my card of a big purchase

And they STILL flagged it and denied the charge. Long story, but it was incredibly frustrating since I had anticipated a problem and tried to keep it from happening. The only good part was that the credit card company gave me a credit for my time. The bad part was that with the time I spent sorting it out I got paid about $3 an hour by them.

A different credit card company denied a charge because it was with a retailer in Australia. Uh, yeah - it was an internet order for magazine subscription with a company that publishes in that country. That particular company has gotten really strange about what they will deny or accept so I no longer use that card. I'm tired of being embarrassed by their haphazard denials of charges for no apparent reason. They seem to be more likely to deny a charge if I have paid off the full amount owed.

[WolverineDG]

37. Identity theft protection

A PITA but instead of blaming the banks, blame the ID thieves.

[Justice wanted]

38. Okay. Idea Good Actual Practice BAD! My Friend Should not have to Check in with -Big Brother

Bank to say I'm going here Can I please spend my money!

[saras]

39. And if you travel for a living? You obviously have to get a better bank than these...

It is simply not possible to serve the stupid well without harming others.

Or do you just have to pay extra for a credit card that works the way CREDIT CARDS WERE INVENTED TO WORK IN THE FIRST PLACE? The whole fucking POINT of a credit card is that it works anywhere, especially where there's no one that recognizes you or your bank.

I can just imagine a couple of people I know, calling the bank long-distance from anywhere in the world, maybe twice a day, to change their itinerary. Yeah, right.

[Justice wanted]

40. Exactly. She use to travel a lot for a living. At one point she was going back and forth between

the Canadian border 4 times a week. This was before the whole birth certificate/passport needed to cross the border -which has deeply effect a lot of businesses and jobs in the tourism industry.


What is the sense of a bank Debit card or Mac card having a Visa or Master Card logo if you can't use it freely.

[oldhippie]

41. I think they must have some pretty good algorithms .......

I used to travel a lot and used my main credit card extensively. Twice, in 2000 and 2008, I used my credit card to purchase a Rolex watch at an authorized dealer outside my home state. Multi thousand dollar purchases in both cases, and the bank didn't blink an eye. Also used it to buy my wife an expensive ring while on a trip to Alaska. Again, no problem.

But I used that same card once to order some parts on-line for my son. He was re-building a race car, and I ordered rods, pistons, valves, bearings, and other engine parts from some speed shops in Calif. The purchases were not denied, but I got a call right away from the bank wanting to know if I had made the purchases, as they didn't fit my profile. I think they watch most every purchase.

I have been with the same bank/company (USAA) for more than 40 years. I use my credit card for most purchases. I think they have my profile down pretty solid. I'm glad they do.

[Pisces]

43. The bank has to cover the losses therefore they are monitoring more closely.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. My bank does this and I appreciate it

All I have to do is call and let them know when I plan to leave town and spend money. Takes maybe a minute.

I was the victim of identity theft once and that was much more of a hassle than calling my bank when I leave town.

[high density]

51. The banks are damned if they do, damned if they don't

I could imagine a similar rant except a scenario where the card was stolen and instead the charges went right through. Now your friend has to wait 90 days to wade through the bank process of getting her money back. If she just used a credit card to begin with it wouldn't have mattered so much.

My debit card doesn't see anything but the inside of my bank's ATMs. My credit cards have been used all over the place. I can only think of two transactions that have been randomly declined in the past 10 years (always somewhere far from home), and trying a second card in my wallet worked just fine.

If you have the credit cards then you should use them. Pay them off every month. Then when the number is stolen and fraudulent charges are made, it's the banks money on the line instead of your own. I even pocket a couple hundred bucks a year in rewards.