"When did moderate become a political dirty word?" CNN

[Pretzel_Warrior]

Admittedly, this is from 2012 election when Romney was still fighting for the right to get ass handed to him by Obama, but this commentator brings up some good history on moderation and why some in modern times seem to think it is aptly used as a weapon such as here on DU and on other message boards of the opposite political persuasion.

It was Barry Goldwater in 1964 who said:

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

And then he promptly got HIS ass handed to him by LBJ. The vast majority of Americans are centrist. That's just a fact.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/01/opinion/greene-moderate/

[BillyRibs]

1. Right after

They did to LIBERALS. it happening all over again.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
-Niemöller

[cali]

2. When it became co-opted by those on the right

to push the false equivalency meme that dems have just as many extremist leftists in their party as repuke have extremists on the right.

[quinnox]

3. Wow, third thread in a row on how great moderates are,

huh. Damn.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

4. I'd call it a trilogy

it will be a new overarching theme of my posting for a bit.

[quinnox]

5. which implicity criticizes those "crazy and extreme" progressives/libs

[Pretzel_Warrior]

6. not really. it more talks about approaches to getting things done

in other words, how would you describe LBJ? Probably flawed. Maybe due to Vietnam War escalation, liberal isn't the top word to cross your lips to describe him. And yet, he pragmatically worked with Congress to get Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act and Medicare passed along with other Great Society initiatives.

A person who has liberal or progressive values is not necessarily "extreme". One can have progressive stand on a number of issues and still, because of the mix of beliefs held, be described as a moderate.

[cali]

7. What about the national dem party isn't moderate?

Do you agree that Tom Harkin is an extremist? And yes that damned well was what she said by using him as an example of someone who made such a shockingly "extremist comment as this:

And yet when it comes to politics, the staunch and unbending are yelling. The right sneers that fellow GOP-ers are "RINOs" (Republicans in Name Only); the left bashes "moderate Democrats" in favor of a "good, progressive, populist message," to quote Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/09/12/moderates-democrats-republicans-politics-column/2806517/


Tell us who you think are the "extremists" in the dem party? If it's such a huge problem that "extreme leftists" have hijacked the dem party, name names.

For the record, it's a lousy idea to use wingnuts like Diane Medved and Jonah asshole Goldberg to promote "moderation". Think these haters might have an ulterior motive?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. for the most part, the national Dem party is moderate. which is why they suffer blistering attacks

from the extreme left.

I can't believe you're going the "name names!!!" route. lol.

[cali]

8. Don't promote liberal/progressive ideas. It's not moderate enough.

And everyone knows that radical leftists have taken over the democratic party every bit as much as wingnuts have taken over the repub party.

We all need to be more moderate like Lindsey Graham and John McCain.

[quinnox]

9. Yep, on the same wavelength as you are regarding this new "moderates are great!" campaign

[treestar]

34. I can promote single payer and at the same time realize

that enough of my fellow citizens disagree and therefore send to congress enough members that it would not get through.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. You're conflating "defeatist" with moderate.

A moderate will vote for the person that they predict will get the most votes, regardless of his or her position on single payer.

[moriah]

49. I consider myself a moderate Dem, did that mean I voted for Bush when I thought he'd win? No!

I voted for Kerry, even though I had very little hope for his chance of success.

Accusing moderates of essentially only being "poll-watchers" instead of rejecting some extremist ideas (like, for example, IMHO, wanting to overthrow the ACA entirely because it isn't perfect, which is a view both extremists on both sides of the aisle seem to share, though for different reasons) is shortsighted, the same as suggesting that a more Progressive Den only votes for candidates they don't think can win (or is somehow "throwing their vote away" for voting their conscience if their candidate is, by consensus, "unelectable&quot .

Now, I've gotten pissed off at people who trashed Blanche Lincoln, and who said they'd refuse to vote if she won the Arkansas primary. We did lose a Dem vote on many issues, and got a guaranteed one against all of our causes instead (Boozman). I would have much rather had Lincoln than Boozman, others wanted Holder enough that they were fine with risking having Boozman instead. I wish those people who'd been disenchanted had voted Democratic instead of staying home or voting third-party. But if I, a moderate Dem, wanted the candidate that could most easily win regardless of their stances, given that I'm Arkansan, I'd likely be voting Republican. And if they, as Progressives, had only wanted Holder because they didn't think he could win but they wanted to trash a DINO, I don't think they'd have been as dedicated to working to get him elected.

[treestar]

57. There's no use playing a game that there are no Republicans

If one lives in Kansas and thinks a Democrat might win, then it is sane to vote for them even if they won't support single payer. Because a Republican certainly won't.

If I live in a blue state and the Republican has a very low chance of winning, then I don't have to worry about that and can vote for the single payer advocate Democrat over the one that doesn't.

But to get there I need more liberals and fewer Republicans.

I don't know why some people have a hard time understanding that we are still fighting Republicans. The day when the Tea Party has no power will be a great day. It's just not here yet.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Kansas would elect more democrats if there were some outspoken liberals to move the goal posts.

Instead, each moderate democrat becomes more conservative than the last because the spectrum of opinion only moves one way.

[Orsino]

11. When Republican became a dirty word.

Half-assed Republicans are still following a dirty platform.

[sendero]

12. The problem is with the definition..

.... I consider myself a moderate, in that I favor sane, sustainable policies and am pretty risk averse. However, most people would probably consider me far left. That's because they are stupid and there is nothing I can do about that. The social-safety-net free country that many think they want is UNSUSTAINABLE and if the radicals ever succeed in gutting SS and Medicare they will reap the whirlwind.

There are situations that require measures that could be considered extreme. They are few and far between but someone has to be willing to be extreme on occasion. But in general, I prefer a tried and true sure footed approach over radical change, and that makes me a moderate.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. No offense sendero, but one can not walk new paths with steps already tried. Only old beaten

trails are tried and true, but we already know where they end and that is not where we want to go. I think it is cute to use words like 'sure footed' and to praise one's own trepidation as a virtue, but cute is for kids. I am in agreement with Dr King who called gradualism a drug we can not afford.
To me 'Moderates' and 'Centrists' will always and for all time be known as the group that was very upset about marriage equality and whined endlessly that 'only Civil Unions are possible' and that 'we have to wait...until after the next election, or after all the old bigots die off, or until the RCC evolves'. Wait. Only civil unions. I can show you DUers who said 'Gay marriage is unthinkable to me' as they pushed 'moderate' Civil Unions. The 'Moderates' were still saying 'The President Can Not Support Marriage Equality Or He Will Lose the Election' while Obama was telling the press he supports marriage equality, which was shortly before he won the election. Their 'moderate' way was a failure, it was not in fact 'moderate' it was atavistic and conservative to the core. 'No rights for you' is what they said 'maybe a few, maybe later, but not all of them and not now, 'cause we need to be moderate'.
Shall we do a search and find some 'Moderates' on DU advocating permanent inequality for GLBT people? There are thousands of such posts. They claim to be 'sane' and 'sure footed'.
That's who and what Moderates will always be to me. The folks who say 'drink the drug of gradualism and refuse all progress unless it profits me personally'.
During the political fight of my lifetime, Moderates took the opposite position. They opposed us when we sought marriage equality. They called it 'poutrage' they said 'oh, you didn't get your pony' to people whose spouses were considered strangers to them under the law. You didn't get your pony? How the fuck is that moderate political speech? It is not. Perhaps indulging in hyperbolic characterizations of others has put a crimp in the image of the 'sane sure footed Moderate' and replaced it with an image of a huge mouth shouting 'Pony wanter, Poutragers!!' at a minority seeking equal rights. Moderates tried to prevent equal rights for my people. They called us names, like their Republican counterparts do. Right here on DU.

[sendero]

25. Well I don't disagree with you..

... and perhaps I stated my case poorly. For example, I believe that a single-payer health care system is the only kind that will work, because monetary interests coupled with a monopoly demand can never work right.

Now, some would call that radical, but we're the only similar country in the world not doing it so I consider it tried and proven.

It is possible to be careful and still try new things. And and I was speaking mostly of things economic related, on social issues I am completely liberal as whether people get abortions or marry within their gender is NOBODY ELSE'S EFFING BUSINESS

[Bluenorthwest]

27. See but those wearing Moderate Centrist tee shirts attacked those seeking equality and choice

So when you say you are a moderate, what I hear is 'I wanted to slow progress on the rights of others'. The folks who advocated a delay on equality called themselves 'the Moderates' and insisted that marriage equality was an extreme position. 'The extremes cannot win, he's the President of everybody, Rick Warren is America's Minister!!!!!'
If that's not you, you are not a moderate. The 'moderates' attacked Lt Dan Choi for seeking an end to DADT, once it ended the 'moderates' took credit for what Choi and others accomplished. Creepy and amoral, they shit on us then tried to take the glory once we won.
I personally will never forget that stuff. Ever. The very worst bullshit on the planet can get labeled 'moderate' and sold to those who have situational ethics.

[sendero]

39. I consider these people..

.... these are just malefactors hiding behind a benign label. They have nothing to do with "moderation".

[Bluenorthwest]

48. No true Scotsman?

Actually I get what you are saying and I agree. An example can be seen on DU, where those who claim to be 'Moderate' engage and indulge in hyperbolic and extreme language, characterizing any disagreement in intense adjective laden verbiage and rafts of emoticons. They react intensely because they are reactionaries, not moderates.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Here is an example from a DUer in the past...

"28. Don't blame me ...I'm a moderate. I believe in Civil Unions. I also think that EVENTUALLY society would get used to this and allow homosexual marriage.

I'm not pissing on you. It's the right wingers who are pissing on you. I have to defend you folk from them CONSTANTLY.

You know what. It gets annoying for moderates to DEFEND homosexuals in front of right winger AND THEN have to defend THEMSELVES in the presence of homosexuals.

One might think a THANK YOU would be in order for towing your water with conservatives.

Honestly, I'm sick of all this moderate bashing by gays. Maybe we should all just give up and let the fundamentalists have at you."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1133655&mesg_id=1134745

Dig that last line. 'Moderate bashing' is what they always claim is happening when their right wing views are rejected by Democrats.

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. Very well said. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

13. When "Centrists" used it for cover for ideological corporatisim and when moderates tolerated such.

It flew off the tracks at light speed when despite the nearly infinite possible permutations of moderate that should exist, the political representation consistently comes out to be socially moderate slow walkers and fiscally tight corporatist that favor a muscular military used as a global security force.

[Morphia]

14. Moderate and Centrist has ALWAYS been a dirty word in my book

In the last 20 years Moderates and Centrists have done nothing but block or water down GOOD Liberal and Progressive Legislation.

Don't forget we would have Single Payer TODAY if it were not for the Moderates and Centrists.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. Welcome to DU Morphia

decent first post.

[HangOnKids]

17. AGREE! n/t

[gopiscrap]

29. welcome to DU

[treestar]

33. It's still plain fact that they are in Congress because they were elected

You may not agree with voters not so far to the left of you but that does not mean they don't exist. You can hate all the Congress persons but that doesn't mean their constituents didn't send them there.

[leftstreet]

51. ...by less than half the eligible voters

and they tried to make a choice between Status Quo Red or Status Quo Blue

[treestar]

56. People who don't vote are obviously

quite OK with the status quo. If they don't bother to vote, why should politicians try to figure out what they might want? And it's most likely, they want things to stay the same.

[leftstreet]

54. +1

[woo me with science]

15. Another sick Orwellian corruption of a word.

War is Peace.
Ignorance is Strength.
Freedom is Slavery.
Chained CPI is Superlative.
Drone Murders are Legal, Ethical, and Wise.
Corporatism is "Moderate."

These looting vultures are not moderates. They are extreme corporatists and neocons/neoliberals.

There is absolutely nothing "moderate" about what's being done to this country.

Indefinite detention, "kill lists" and drone wars, pre-emptive war as administration doctrine, spy centers and a massive surveillance state, internet IDs and internet-censoring measures like ACTA, military drones in American skies and militarized police departments, prisons that profit from caging more of us, coordinated violent crackdowns against peaceful protesters, strip searches for any arrestee, corporate education deform, new drilling and selling off the Gulf of Mexico, job-killing free trade agreements, big agriculture appointments, bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks, austerity budgets, and attacking Social Security and Medicare in an economy that has already impoverished its middle class.....

.....These are not moderate or centrist positions. Not by a long shot.

These are extreme corporatist, neocon, and police state policies, not "centrist" or moderate at all. And they are coming from corporatists in both parties.


Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

The Enemy Expatriation Act - another attack on legitimate protest and dissent like NDAA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022072450

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

NDAA 2013 - Indefinite detention without trial is back
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014342985

Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014348022

Democratic-controlled US Senate approves...new $633 billion war bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022060449

Purposely aiming bombs at children: "It kind of opens our aperture."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021931748

Obama Administration To Offer More Than 20 Million Acres in Western Gulf of Mexico for Oil/Drilling
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1896005

Obama's (Corporate) Education Reform Push is Bad Education Policy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x221922

Trans Pacific Partnership is NAFTA On Steroids
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1914478

NYT slams the government for choosing not to prosecute HSBC top-bankers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965407

Why is Social Security Under Attack from Obama, when it ADDS NOTHING to the deficit???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022065493

Obama: "Too many of us have been interested in defending programs as written in 1938."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2069607




The Democratic Party's Deceitful Game
http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/democrats_34/

Our middle class has been destroyed, our Constitution is being dismantled, and the corporate "moderates" are coming for more. It's well past time to give up the illusion of what we are really facing here. We have a *systemic* problem of corporate money deluging Washington and corrupting both parties. We are under assault by corporatists who pretend to represent us, and we had better figure out what we are going to do about it, because change is not coming from Republicans *or* from those who claim to be on our side.


THIS is the distribution of wealth in which our "moderate" President advocates cutting our social safety nets and fast-tracking the Trans-Pacific Job and Wage Killing Agreement:

[xchrom]

18. moderates and centrist broke everything -- then they piss and moan that progressives

point out their corrupt ineptness to get just about any thing right.

bunch of cry babies -- dangerous cry babies.

[Morphia]

19. They will become even more dangerous when the Republicans who fliped to Democrats

recently become their allies.

I know I cannot be the only one who worries about the further rightward shift with the Democratic Party and the acceptance of Republican Economic Policies.

[treestar]

59. Republicans?

Aren't they the ones that "broke everything?" Holy cow!

[Bluenorthwest]

20. I'm going to cut right to quoting the Bible because Centrists always like that.

God on Moderates:
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

I agree with God. Thank you very much.

[xchrom]

21. and here endeth the lesson

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Moderates love to post about religion in GD but they never have an answer for a quote from their own

book. They fall silent when it is quoted.

[tanyev]

22. Really, CNN? Maybe it was around the same time you started reducing every issue

to a good thing or a bad thing.


Jon Stewart Tears CNN Apart For 'Good Thing Or Bad Thing' Reporting (VIDEO)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jon-stewart-tears-cnn-apart-for-good-thing-or-bad-thing-reporting-video

[grahamhgreen]

26. Center left.

[Shankapotomus]

28. Good or Bad!

Go!

[treestar]

30. The center is defined by people's opinions

I agree, it's stupid to try to pretend most people aren't to the right of DU. That's just a fact.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. If 'that's just a fact' you should be able to easily and fully support your assertion with stats and

that sort of thing. But you can't, so you won't. Making things up and declaring them to be 'just a fact' is not moderate, it is fantasia.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. The center is defined by OTHER PEOPLE'S opinions.

"moderate" isn't an ideology, it's an index fund. Set the radio dial half way between progressives and conservatives and be done with it.

The time and energy this frees up can then be used for watching American Idol.

[treestar]

55. If one is a member of the Tea Party

Then calls John McCain a "liberal" because his opinion is too far to the left of theirs, they are being silly. Instead admit they are rightest of the right wing and they would at least be acknowledging reality.

The center is defined as what the average person wants. The average person is apparently content to watch American Idol rather than in depth documentaries regarding politics. This means they are content with things as they are. If they weren't, they'd pay more attention.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. Silly? If it shapes opinion, and moves the dialog further right, then it's hard to say it's silly.

As the dialog moves further right, so does "the center". Centrists and moderates are chained to the poles of american politics like a dog on a chain. They believe that they're thinking for themselves while defining their beliefs by the length of the chain.

Moderates aren't content with the status quo, they just lack the ambition to do anything other than complain that it isn't being fixed.

Their only influence is to switch their votes from R to D every couple of years to punish someone for the fact that the TV has too many commercials.

[treestar]

64. When you care, you get ambition

That is why there is so much attempt by both sides to rile people up and get them angry. Yet it doesn't work. They go back to American Idol. They have to be affected before they care. Some don't even vote. The country is fine as far as they are concerned, regardless of what they say. And if riled up, the Tea Party has just as much chance of benefitting from that as the socialists do.

This country is basically a comfortable place to be for a large majority. It's not going to radically and quickly move to the right or left. The Tea Party is no where near getting what they want either.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. ... and cease being a moderate.

I don't see anything meritorious in self-identifying as a moderate.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

45. Well, the vocal bunch sure have spoken up!

Not on any points in the commentary. Just ad hominem against anything CNN and slogans. Sounds like the cultural revolution in China. "Capitalist roaders and counter-revolutionaries need to be reeducates!"

[leftstreet]

52. The 'center' is defined as 'status quo' n/t

[99Forever]

31. When?

When being a "moderate" became an excuse for selling out actual DEMOCRATIC values and fucking over We the People to please the 1%.

Any other stupid fucking questions?

[DefenseLawyer]

35. In our times a "moderate" is a Democrat that answers to Wall Street

and the MIC. They join hands with the Republicans to screw working people on a regular basis.

[hollowdweller]

36. How may times have dems voted for tax cuts, wars, and benefit cuts VS

How many times have conservatives voted for increased social spending, tax increases and any regulation?

The center used to be farther to the right than it is now. When it was dems went there. Now it's to the left and the GOP is unable to go there, most of them anyway.

[DireStrike]

37. The majority of Americans believe what everyone repeats daily on TV:

That extremes on both sides are to blame, and business-as-usual is just fine.

Of course, they don't have time to consider politics when they have to work longer and longer hours to bring home the same paycheck.

[JHB]

40. Pretty simple answer to that: 1994

Newt and his crew didn't have anything nice to say about moderates back then.

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. Because for the last 50 years liberals and centrists have fetishized moderation.

Conservatives have been living by the Goldwater motto, and each year, the goal posts drift a little further to the right. Since "moderates" are chained by varying proximity to that goal post, they get dragged to the right - usually without consciously knowing it.

Liberals and progressives are caught in a "make nice" world view and a practical short-term need to appeal to those moderates. So now, implementing a healthcare plan that is far to the right of the one Nixon supported, ending welfare as we know it, and outright rejecting the Social Security solvency solution designed by Reagan are where the ball lies.

I think we mostly agree that this site is supposed to be a community of people interested in the idea of progressive solutions and moving the needle back to socially conscious priorities. Moderation fails to do that.

I would use gentler terms outside of DU to explain my contempt for moderation. I don't have much respect for anyone who "thinks for themselves" by planting their ideological flag half-way between Stephanie Miller and Glenn Beck. They're not thinking for themselves at all, they are lazily and stupidly splitting the difference in a hope of maintaining some proximity to the eventual winner.

Fuck moderation.

[rock]

46. Moderate does NOT mean Centrist

You can be Left or you can be Right (Ugh!)
You can be Moderate of you can be Extremist (Ugh!)

The repiggies try to use moderate to mean halfway between the the extremes so that you'll think balanced.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. when it was adopted by the likes of Joe Lieberman or Evan Bayh to promote their right-wing extremist

agenda - whether their ethically dubious opposition to a public option largely rooted in corrupt ties to the insurance industry, their support for cuts to Social Security and Medicare long rejected by the overwhelming majority or their crackpot neoconservative foreign policy which seeks to launch America into a state of even more unwinnable and intractable wars in the Middle East.

[Zorra]

50. When moderate Democrats voted Reagan into office enmasse, allowing corporations to seize

iron-fisted control of the media and the federal government, and kill labor unions.



And then, to add insult to injury, the same idiot Dems who voted Reagan into office and fucked over the whole world cheered on Bush's phony war.

Congratulations,moderates....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine

[hrmjustin]

58. Well some people are moderates because that is what will get elected in their district.

I live in a swing district and moderates are what sell here. Of course my congressman I would not call a moderate at all. He votes with the GOP all the time. Michael Grimm.

Moderates have their place in our political life and should not be shunned. There are core Democratic values that compromising on would not be acceptable.

[bemildred]

60. Look in the mirror. nt

[WillyT]

62. To Me... The Question Is... "What The Hell Is A Moderate ???"

With A)the right going into insane la-la land, and B)the Dems taking corporate money because of A)...

Where the hell does a "Moderate" stand these days?

2 parts Truman, 3 parts Reagan ???