"Apocalyptic" Fukushima Fuel Rod Removal Begins Nov. 8; TEPCO Subcontracts Yakuza gangsters

[Katashi_itto]

I have a bad feeling about this week.

[link:http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/19/national/fukushima-2020-will-japan-be-able-to-keep-the-nuclear-situation-under-control/#.Und0D_ltj_O|Removal of highly radioactive spent fuel from Fukushima Daiichi unit 4, which was rocked by a hydrogen explosion two and a half years ago, will start November 8, according to TEPCO.
]
Unit 4 was down for refueling when the great earthquake and tsunami hit, so the reactor is in good shape, but hydrogen built up around the fuel pool when the power failed leading to a hydrogen explosion on the structure's upper level. TEPCO reinforced the damaged supports for the fuel pool, but its seismic safety remains a major concern. Two new (moderately radioactive) fuel assemblies were successfully removed from the pool in July 2012 by a team of workers (above and below).

Spent fuel must be removed robotically or by operators protected by heavily shielded equipment, unlike the dry run on new fuel, because it is highly radioactive. TEPCO announced that a specialized crane has been installed a week ahead of schedule and fuel removal will begin a week from today.
*****
As long-time anti-nuclear activist Harvey Wasserman explained, the
Spent fuel rods must be kept cool at all times. If exposed to air, their zirconium alloy cladding will ignite, the rods will burn and huge quantities of radiation will be emitted. Should the rods touch each other, or should they crumble into a big enough pile, an explosion is possible.

"In the worst-case scenario," RT adds, the pool could come crashing to the ground, dumping the rods together into a pile that could fission and cause an explosion many times worse than in March 2011. Wasserman says that the plan is so risky it requires a global take-over, an urging Gunter also shared, stating that the "dangerous task should not be left to TEPCO but quickly involve the oversight and management of independent international experts."

An operation with potentially "apocalyptic" consequences is expected to begin in a little over two weeks from now - "as early as November 8" - at Fukushima's damaged and sinking Reactor 4, when plant operator TEPCO will attempt to remove over 1300 spent fuel rods holding the radiation equivalent of 14,000 Hiroshima bombs from a spent fuel storage tank perched on the reactor's upper floor.

More:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/01/1252062/--Apocalyptic-Fukushima-Fuel-Rod-Removal-Begins-Nov-8-TEPCO-Subcontracts-Yakuza-gangsters

[dixiegrrrrl]

1. Inexcuseable that there is no global invovlement.

I seem to remember that Japan rejected help from other countries???
I could be wrong on that.

But, still, not a peep from our gov. about Fukishima....

[Katashi_itto]

2. Japan has rejected help then accepted help. Sending mixed signals.

Passive aggressive suddenly. Its unnerving. I've never seen the Japanese govt act this way.

[Bennyboy]

52. Well that is no longer true...

US remarks on FUKU and yesterday Japan, and TEPCO agreed to cooperate with US and world nuke experts. The problem is this though..... experts at what exactly? There just ain't much experience putting the genie BACK into the bottle......

All in this thread for all things FUKU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023909069

[Divernan]

3. U.S. nuclear plants also exceeding safety limits with spent fuel pools/fuel rods.

Last edited Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

The United States has 31 boiling water reactors (BWR) with pools elevated several stories above ground, similar to those at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi station. As in Japan, all spent fuel pools at nuclear power plants do not have steel-lined, concrete barriers that cover reactor vessels to prevent the escape of radioactivity. They are not required to have back-up generators to keep used fuel rods cool, if offsite power is lost. The 69 Pressurized Water (PWR) reactors operating in the U.S. do not have elevated pools, and also lack proper containment and several have large cavities beneath them which could exacerbate leakage. http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/spent_nuclear_fuel_pools_in_the_us_reducing_the_deadly_risks_of_storage

Spent Nuclear Fuel Pools in the U.S.: Reducing the Deadly Risks of Storage
www.ips-dc.org
The price of fixing America's nuclear vulnerabilities may be high, but the price of doing too little is incalculable.

In a recent interview with The Real News Network, Robert Alvarez, a nuclear policy specialist since 1975, reports that spent nuclear fuel in the United States comprises the largest concentration of radioactivity on the planet: 71,000 metric tons. Worse, since the Yucca Mountain waste repository has been scrapped due to its proximity to active faults (see last image), the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has allowed reactor operators to store four times more waste in the spent fuel pools than they’re designed to handle. http://coto2.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/us-stores-spent-nuclear-fuel-rods-at-4-times-pool-capacity/
US stores spent nuclear fuel rods at 4 times pool capacity

[Katashi_itto]

4. +100

Although, and I hope I'm wrong. I don't think it will matter after Nov 8th.

This has all the feeling of one of those epic disasters everyone sees is coming but nothing is done to stop it.

[Divernan]

5. Disgraceful that this thread is being ignored on DU

After SIX hours, and 182 views, only ONE recommendation.

The world, especially the US with all its aging nuclear plants and spent fuel rods, should be watching this "rescue" effort with baited breath.

I'm amazed that there aren't hundreds of DUers - those who live on the West Coast, environmentalists, anti-nuke folks, anyone who cares about public health - responding to this thread and getting it on the home page of DU

[Katashi_itto]

6. It is sort of incredible isn't it?

I mean when this goes wrong...It could still go right. They could pull it off.

Sort of the same way a runner could run against rush hour traffic blindfolded and still not get hit. It could happen. Just not real likely.


Hard radiation like that released will kill the plankton of the pacific and below. No plankton, no oxygen, no life in the Pacific.

A desert of water.

If the leak goes on then you threaten plankton in all the oceans and game over.

I plan on watching "The Road" again Friday.

[justabob]

12. well, maybe so

I can barely bring myself to click on Fukushima links. There is only so much people can take, especially since there isn't anything for us to do about it anyway. Tepco is going to do what it is going to do. Japan doesn't give a shit what we on DU and in the States think. Most of us know it is really really bad.... Even if the recovery goes better than expected, things are going to be bad for a really long time. Knowing the nitty gritty details about just how much worse it could be isn't something a lot of people are going to subject themselves to willingly... I could be wrong, but I think most people are past their limits and taking a sort of fatalistic view of it.

[Divernan]

14. The world cannot afford to take a fatalistic view of this catastrophe.

I agree that "Japan" (including the power execs, and the government) doesn't care what people posting on DU or in the States think about their problems. And I agree there is nothing "we" can do about the situation. However this is not a topic upon which we can afford to be fatalistic, because Fukushima is the canary in the international nuclear coal mine, so to speak.

The analysis here:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/sep/04/fukushima-farce-nuclear-industry-flaw
enables us to understand the dangers of nuclear power, and to pressure our government, and specifically President Obama, to stop pushing new nuclear power plants as the necessary answer to our power needs.

Supporters maintain that nuclear power offers affordable low-carbon electricity and is a vital tool in the fight to curb climate change. The UK government, already spending most of its energy budget on nuclear clean up, has crashed through deadline after deadline in a fruitless search to find anybody willing to build new nuclear power stations at reasonable cost.

The only serious players left in the game are those backed by the French, Chinese and Russian states, whose interest in power is as much political as electrical. Commercial companies have fled the scene.

The fundamental reason why the price of nuclear power climbs each day as surely as the rising sun is a straightforward one. Keeping a lid on costs is impossible if the task in hand is keeping the lid on an exploding atomic bomb. For that is what a nuclear reactor is, a slow motion detonation. That intrinsic danger means that as each new risk to reactors is discovered, more and more expensive measures need to be put in place as mitigation. When accidents happen, as they will over a half century or more of operation, the intrinsic risk of radioactive materials means more money is piled on the bonfire to ensure the risk to the public is limited.

The answer from the nuclear industry to all these criticisms is always the same: it will be different next time. But the rolling farce in Fukushima proves yet again the opposite. The only reliability the industry can offer is consistently breaking promises and busting budgets.

[Divernan]

15. Obama continues to push for new nuclear plants without a solution to disposal of spent fuel rods.

Obama has received major financial support from the nuclear industry dating back to his earliest campaigns in Illinois.Since the 1979 nuclear accident at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania, and then the catastrophe at Chernobyl in 1986, there have been no new nuclear power plants built in the US. As I referred to in an earlier post, the 104 existing nuclear plants are all increasing in age, many nearing their originally slated life expectancy of 40 years, and there has been no solution to the ever increasing problem of where spent fuel rods can be safely stored.

While campaigning for president in 2008, Barack Obama promised that nuclear power would remain part of the US's "energy mix". His chief adviser, David Axelrod, had consulted in the past for Illinois energy company ComEd, a subsidiary of Exelon, a major nuclear-energy producer. Obama's former chief of staff Rahm Emanuel played a key role in the formation of Exelon. In the past four years, Exelon employees have contributed more than $244,000 to the Obama campaign – and that is not counting any soft-money contributions to PACs, or direct, corporate contributions to the new Super Pacs. Lamented by many for breaking key campaign promises (like closing Guantánamo, or accepting Super Pac money), President Obama is fulfilling his promise to push nuclear power.

That is why several groups sued the Nuclear Regulatory Commission last month. The NRC granted approval to the Southern Company to build the new reactors at the Vogtle plant despite a no vote from the NRC chair, Gregory Jaczko. He objected to the licenses over the absence of guarantees to implement recommendations made following the Japanese disaster. Jaczko said, "I cannot support issuing this license as if Fukushima never happened."

Stephen Smith, executive director of the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, one of the plaintiffs in the suit against the NRC, explained how advocates for nuclear power "distort market forces", since private investors simply don't want to touch nuclear:

"They've asked the federal government for loan guarantees to support the project, and they have not revealed the terms of that loan guarantee … it's socializing the risk and privatizing the profits."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/mar/08/big-nuclear-cosy-relationship-obama-administration

[justabob]

17. I get it, and I do not disagree

I just offered up a reason why people might not be responding here. I wonder if one started a thread about American nuclear issues and things we need to do, if that wouldn't get more responses/reactions that you are looking for than expecting people to talk about what we need to do here in regard to our own energy policy in a thread about an incompetent Japanese utility company. I don't know... just a guess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Fuku is ignored regularly

[Art_from_Ark]

19. It is "ignored" regularly because of many reasons

The main reason is that there is nothing anyone can really do about it except watch from a distance and hope for the best. I'm closer to this non-stop disaster than any other DUer, and I can't do a damn thing about it, except hope that it doesn't turn into more of a catastrophe than it already has been. And help pay for the work through a greatly increased TEPCO electric bill.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I think there is ONE DU'er that I think is closer than you

just saying.



And regardless, worst case scenario distance will only buy us time.

As to your rates, trust me, I feel your pain. SDG&E wants to saddle us with our local plant decommissioning. At least there was no major leak or quake involved.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. I think I am the closest

Now I know of a DUer who has family here in Japan who *may* be living closer than me (in a city that borders on mine), but as far as I know, no member has said that they live less than 100 miles from the site.

And I agree, worst case scenario, distance will only buy time. The people in Fukushima would immediately be the worst off if anything really bad happens, of course, and I would get some bad stuff pretty early on if the wind was blowing down from there (although the prevailing winds up there usually blow in another direction). It is actually pretty scary to think about a worst case scenario, but I can't live my life in fear of it. But I am still making a contingency plan, just in case.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I know, I tend to go to worst case scenarios

due to my life in EMS. They are not pretty. But I agree, none of us can live life in fear. But we need to make those contingency plans. At least, and that is a sort of a blessing in disguise, you live in a place with a stronger civil defense system.

Sometimes people take too much assurance on that, and rely too much on emergency services. That said, getting people here to have their 72 hour general emergency stash is like pulling teeth.

[Art_from_Ark]

26. If something really bad happens,

I imagine there would be a mass exodus of foreigners leaving Japan, similar to, or maybe even more massive, than what happened back in March 2011. I heard that flights out of Narita and Haneda (Tokyo's two main international airports) were booked pretty solid well into April 2011, and some neighbors from the EU left the country, on orders from their government (because the husband was a government worker). People were surprised when I stuck around. But if something really bad happens this time, I guess I can get on a waiting list for flights to the US...

At least I do have a 72 hour general emergency stash

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. In the recent past I have been pushing people to get a darn cute

simple, AM radio, battery operated. Well, we have internet, it will be there and gosh darn it, cell phones are like the bomb.

Not even after we had that wonderful power outage people understood that the power goes, so goes your cell service, and internet. Yes, I was doing plenty of this

That night I was sharing some sets with neighbors. We own more than one.

Hell, I have taken my radio (with a sun charger) to the field to keep the cell phone charged. It is the things that make you go we are way too dependent on the toys! And cannot conceive of the toys not being there.

[Bonobo]

30. Art is closer than me and he is right.

There is nothing we can do but hope.

I do trust that Japan will do what is in its vital interests to the best of ANYONE'S ability.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. In the end hope is all there is left

Human tragedy fully, where the best literature comes from

[Bonobo]

33. Yeah, that's about it, Nadin.

I hope, I hope, I hope.

And I find no solace in the speculation of disaster.

[Generic Other]

39. And I worry about you like family!

What really gets me is stuff like I saw on Anderson Cooper last night where nuke lobbyists baldfacedly tell us how safe nuclear is and how we need this "clean safe" form of energy and that the US should be building them everywhere! People should spontaneously combust on-air when they utter such disgusting lies.

[Art_from_Ark]

42. Believe me, I'm no fan of nuclear power

I remember Three Mile Island and how we barely escaped a catastrophe with that one (and I still can't believe that the people of Missouri voted overwhelmingly in favor of the construction of the Callaway nuclear power plant just 1 1/2 years later! ). I also remember Chernobyl and the trouble that caused. And of course, now I'm less than a two-hour drive from this latest nuclear disaster, with its tons of nuclear fuel and waste that will have to be painstakingly removed. So, yeah, "clean" and "safe" are not two words that I would associate with the nuclear industry.

And thanks for having me in your thoughts.

By the way, did your relatives have any problems with the recent typhoons? There was some minor flooding around here last month.

[Generic Other]

46. No damage from the typhoon

They don't seem to be very concerned about Fukushima. Or maybe they are trying not to voice concerns. Oddly, I am the only one who worries.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. I can understand that

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2013, 04:02 AM - Edit history (1)

I have a co-worker who has family up in Iwaki, about 25 miles southwest of the reactors, and he says that they aren't too worried. Or maybe they are just trying to keep a stiff upper lip. But in the respective municipalities where your relatives and his live, radiation readings (usually taken by the local government, not TEPCO's or the national government's figures) consistently show levels that are lower than those in Denver, Colorado. Some municipalities even have a program where they loan out dosimeters to residents. And they even opened beaches in Iwaki this summer (although there were apparently few visitors). So local people might feel that there is no cause for concern.

[Art_from_Ark]

48. Can you speak Japanese?

If you can (or even if you can't), you might be interested in this video from Nippon News Network of an on-site news report that explains what is involved with the work. The fuel pool in Unit 4 doesn't look as bad as what I thought it would look like. They've removed the rubble from it, and they've covered the blown-off roof, and removed a couple of fuel rods last year. So maybe there is some cause for optimism about this particular operation.

http://www.news24.jp/articles/2013/11/07/07239867.html#

[LouisvilleDem]

24. Perhaps it is being ignored...

...because it is full of inaccurate and/or misleading statements?

The statements about zirconium alloy bursting into flames when exposed to air is misleading, and the comment about how the rods could explode if they get dumped together is just plain false.

[Efilroft Sul]

7. Good info, Katashi_itto.

I've been trying to raise awareness about this matter on my Facebook page, and it's met with the same level of interest as here. This is the biggest news story that doesn't make the news.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. The zircalloy only ignites over a certain temperature in air.

Gunderson over at fairewinds actually has a video up of him taking a cutting torch to a zircalloy tube he had left over from a project he worked on.

It doesn't ignite on contact with atmosphere.

Edit: here it is

[Katashi_itto]

9. I posted that here too on multimedia

You misunderstand. As soon as it no longer is covered with water. It heats up. It has already been subjected to high temps too, making it quite brittle. "it ran at that temp for 7-12 hours, The rods glowed that hot"

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Yes it will heat up.

How quickly will it reach the threshold for ignition? How long does it take for them to move it?


Agree WRT to the question of the remaining strength in the material. The portion of the rods that was exposed to air during the lowest point of pool evaporation is key.

(incidentally, the rods did not start burning during that extended window before they got water on the pool.)

[Katashi_itto]

13. Agree, that is the big "unknown" at least given TEPCO track record I would be highly worried about

it.

[pa28]

10. K&R

[CC22]

18. Effects of radiation

Dr. Helen Caldicott, on Japan nuclear crisis - effects of radiation.

[madokie]

36. I am totally completely 100 percent against using the splitting of atoms to boil water

nor for making bombs.
I'm not sure that other technologies can't supplant the use of radioactivity to image our inter bodies via Xray machines and Cat scans. The only uses I see that radiation is good for.

[Gravitycollapse]

43. What about in space travel?

Odds are pretty high that small nuclear power generators, already in use in unmanned space craft, will have to be used in conjunction with solar energy.

[madokie]

44. I guess that would be fine with me as I don't see much of a down side to that

I think we could do better with our time and money if we'd spend more of it on alternates rather than keep on kicking this nuclear can on down the road for making our electricity here on earth.

[Gravitycollapse]

45. You realize solar energy is simply a method of collecting energy...

Produced by fusion, right? I don't understand why people believe nuclear energy is so abnormal or bizarre. Our Sun is one gigantic nuclear power generator.

Disagree with nuclear energy if you want and I myself am conflicted. But stop trying to paint it as some sort of ungodly perversion of nature. The splitting of the nucleus is one of the most fundamental reactions in the physical world.

[gopiscrap]

40. welcome to DU

[marmar]

21. k/r

[WillyT]

25. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Benton D Struckcheon]

27. What Divernan posted up above about the ever escalating cost of keeping nuclear safe...

…is the problem in a nicely encapsulated nutshell. What the public needs to understand, not just intellectually, but emotionally, in their bones, is that this is a risk that is by its nature unlimited and unmeasurable.
Taleb's Black Swan and Fooled by Randomness are both excellent expositions on that type of risk. (A little realized and known thing, by the way: Keynes was a statistics geek and understood unlimited risk; it was at the heart of his General Theory, something Taleb doesn't understand, but Hyman Minsky does. Or did, in his case.)
The financial system is subject to this because the risks can come from anything, and finance companies are, as a necessity of the business they're in, highly leveraged and therefore subject to fatality at any time. That's the reason you want them as small as possible, so that the failure of any one of them doesn't put the entire financial system at risk.
With nuclear plants, the problem is the failure of any one of them poses a huge risk; every nuclear plant is the equivalent, in risk terms, of a too big to fail bank. You can't limit the risk by making them smaller or anything like that; the only way to mitigate the risk is to eliminate them entirely. I understand that this will mean releasing epically larger amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, but that just makes that problem, which is at least a known and measurable risk, even more important to tackle in every possible way.

[Bennyboy]

29. CROSS POSTED TO THE "fUKUSHIMA NEWS" THREAD...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3999650

many of the same things are discussed or reported in that thread as well....

[longship]

32. The big problem is that leaving the fuel rods where they are is not an option.

They are going to have to remove them, hopefully safely. But they cannot stay where they are. Everybody knows that it's a clusterfuck either way, but those rods cannot stay in that pool.

Japan needs to take every precaution when removing them. And get all the help that they can. There just are no other alternatives.

[Katashi_itto]

34. Agree!

[Warren DeMontague]

35. This is an important story.

Of course it's not black and white. The rods need to be removed; they just need to be removed without (please) a significant fuck-up.

[Katashi_itto]

37. I think what significant is TEPCOs trying to mainly "go it alone"

[Bonobo]

49. Japanese people trust Japan with Japanese issues.

Same for America, France, England.

I, for one, would not be more optimistic to hear that some American company was coming in to do it.

[Katashi_itto]

50. I've no problem with that under normal circumstances. But this is in a different sphere entirely.

This affects everything. Not to mention TEPCO lying about just about everything.

[Bennyboy]

53. No longer true.....

bottom of this thread and in this thread for all things FUKU... http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023909069

[99Forever]

38. The inevitable consequence of nuclear power...

... is likely to be unleashed upon this planet.

This IS exactly the sort of scenario we have told repeatedly would NEVER happen.

This will not turn out well.

[Myrina]

41. I know a bunch of Tea Partiers we could volunteer ....

... send 'em over and help with the cleanup.

No HazMat suits needed, since they don't believe in science or gov't protections ...

[Bennyboy]

51. FUKUSHIMA: TEPCO, helped by the U.S., to remove nuclear fuel rods

FUKUSHIMA: TEPCO, helped by the U.S., to remove nuclear fuel rods
Fukushima operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) has agreed to accept the help of the U.S. Department of Energy with the fuel rod removal, a process considered to be one of the most dangerous in the decommissioning of the nuclear facility. If it is not done properly, the process could lead to a whole new nuclear accident.

Naomi Hirose, president of TEPCO, has decided to accept the help after discussing with U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz when they visited Fukushima No. 1 on Friday to inspect preparations to remove fuel rods from the reactor 4 storage pool.

After Japan received huge public critics regarding its refuse to accept foreign help, the country has recently begun to show more willingness to do so.

“As Japan continues to chart its sovereign path forward on the cleanup at the Fukushima site and works to determine the future of energy economy, the United States stands ready to continue assisting our partners in this daunting yet indispensable task,” Moniz said.

Hirose also said that, “We will work together to tackle many challenges toward decommissioning. I have high hopes that we will be able to benefit from U.S. experience and expertise at Fukushima No. 1.”

A long series of recent breakdowns have revealed grave vulnerabilities at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant that was hit by a violent earthquake and tsunami in 2011.


http://www.tokyotimes.com/2013/tepco-helped-by-the-u-s-to-remove-nuclear-fuel-rods/

[LittleBlue]

54. Not surprising, really

The Yakuza control so much business in Japan, one of the contractors is bound to be associated.

You can literally walk down the street and see them strolling about, out in the open with everything tattooed but their neck and face. The Yakuza have tendrils in everything, so I'm not sure how corporations can avoid working with them.