Did Bill Cliinton really 'win the election' for Obama in 2012

[Whisp]

because of his convention speech?

I'm hearing this and have to say, what?
Are people who say this meaning that Bill got more Democrats to vote for Obama (otherwise they would have gone for Romney) or that Bill convinced some Republicans, Independents and Baggers to vote Obama because I am sure so many of them were tuned into the Democratic Convention that night and converted because of Charming Bill.

I find that really insulting to all the good people that worked hard to get Obama re-elected and Bill just waltzes on stage and takes the credit, according to some.

And most of all I find it very insulting to the President, who has earned his way and doesn't owe the Clintons one damn thing.

The undercurrent of this has a smell to it that we should all recognize.

[leftstreet]

1. Obama won when he defeated Hillary

My neighbor's 6 yr old could have defeated McCain

It could be argued that both Clintons screwed up Hillary's campaign though

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. The OP is about 2012--not 2008

[leftstreet]

5. Oh that's right!

LOL thx

Romney..McCain...same difference

And since Obama had no primary opponent in 2012, then Clinton's statements were probably irrelevant

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. No. That is ludicrous. Obama could easily have lost after 2nd debate if

It had been as underwhelming as the first.

[Whisp]

7. The reason it was 'underwhelming' has been explained many times.

It's because yappers like Matthews and Maddow all had fits about Obama's 'bad' performance, and ignored the Extreme Liar Romney. It was all they could talk about, this loser Obama. But that is what they do for a living and people get suckered right in.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

15. Well, I watched it without commentary and thought

It was a weak performance in debate 1.

[MADem]

40. People listen to those "yappers." Clinton helped revitalize Obama's campaign when he was struggling

and anyone who doesn't see that self evident truth is blinded by a bias against Bill Clinton.

The guy DID help--that's why OBAMA characterized him as "Explainer in Chief." Obama knows it, and he was appreciative and made no bones about it--why is it so hard for others to admit? Clinton also was the one who told Obama to shake off his first shitty debate performance and press on like it didn't matter...and his advice was solid..

What I find amusing is the lengths people will go to in order to characterize the Obamas and the Clintons as "enemies." POTUS could not have had a more loyal and hardworking SECSTATE than HRC.

Bottom line--they're ALL on the same team and they will support one another. They may have different personalities, but when the shit hits the fan they'll play defense and back one another up.

I wish DU wouldn't try to turn Presidential politics into a soap opera.

[DetlefK]

4. Well, Romney was an exceptionally bland and uninspiring opponent.

McCain lost because the focus of the 2008-election shifted mid-campaign from "national security" to "economy". And he had no cred on that because of Bush. Obama got elected because he was "anyone-but-Bush".

Romney lost because he simply couldn't connect to voters. It's one thing to get a crowd riled up to hate your opponent. It's another thing to rile them up to like you.

Obama got lucky in both elections.

[Whisp]

9. Do all Presidents get so 'lucky', or is it just that particular President?

Can't help but smell something!

[Whisp]

11. Which voters did Clinton get to that made the win then?

Can you explain that to me?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

16. What a simplistic load of shit

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. ???

[karynnj]

54. Actually I doubt ANY Republican could have won 2008 no matter who won the nomination -except Edwards

McCain tried to run as a "change" from Bush - it didn't work and he was really poor candidate leading to a landslide.

Romney was in some ways both a very flawed candidate and one who might have been the best chance the Republicans had - certainly better than anyone in the clown show who ever had a remote chance of getting the nomination. (ie everyone but Huntsman) because he could claim to be a moderate.

He was a pretty flawed candidate, but I would bet that if he had a better team than the MA team that he and Scott Brown shared, he might have pulled it off - if the 47% tape think all politicians assume when they are the nominee - that potentially anything they say can be taped. The fact that Fehrstrom raised the idea that between the primaries and general election, Romney's positions could be considered to as if written on an etch -a-sketch was also devastating meaning either Romney had no positions or convictions -- or he was willing to change them at will. This was already a Democratic accusation - and they could even use Teddy Kennedy's years old claim that Romney was neither pro choice or anti choice -- but multi choice.

It would be ironic if McCain and Romney have as a legacy that the party goes far right pointing out that picking "moderates" didn't work - right at an election that could possibly be tougher - giving the victory to Hillary or whoever else is our candidate.

[lostincalifornia]

6. I know 47% who would say that. However 53% say that is bullshit

[HappyMe]

8. I don't think Clinton won the election for Obama.

It's pretty damn insulting to all the people that worked to get the job done.

[DonViejo]

10. Clinton's convention speech caused Democrats

AND the rest of Americans to focus on the campaign. He further clarified the issues and, in the process, President Clinton helped define them for the public (and the morons in the media).

[applegrove]

76. It was a wonderful speech. It made all democratic candidates look

Last edited Tue Nov 5, 2013, 03:58 AM - Edit history (1)

good for having such a peep. It strengthened the brand. It added dept to the discussion that was sorely lacking. Bill Clinton took Obama's policy platform and connected with the public. Of course it helped.

[NYC_SKP]

12. Of course not. Anyone watching him at the convention would already have made up their mind.

And I know the smell you're smelling, and I smell it too.

[blm]

13. This corpmedia narrative is crafted to diminish Obama's leadership in every way they can.

And it is pretty safe to assume that TeamClinton doesn't mind fueling this type of narrative.

[MADem]

41. Oh, bullshit. No one is claiming that. Obama is a superb leader, a transformative one, too.

But even superb leaders can use a little help every now and again.

And when they get it from an elder in the party, a LION at the ability to rebound, to rise from the dead, the ultimate "Comeback Kid," it's good help and it works.

As OBAMA admitted when he called Bill Clinton the "Explainer in Chief."

The narrative on this THREAD is what is offensive, that the Obamas and Clintons hate one another, that anyone (not true) is trying to suggest "Obama Stupid/Clinton Smart" or that there's any sort of "cage match" going on with them.

THAT's what is offensive. They're Democrats, who--unlike some people here who like to pick people apart--would like to see more Democrats and fewer Republicans in public office.

[blm]

57. I am far more cynical about these 'news' reports than you.

I don't believe in coincidence, especially once a 'narrative' begins to appear.

Your mileage may vary.

[MADem]

59. It varies wildly.

Most of the shit snark I've seen has been on DU, not in the news.

They're both great Dems, and they're going to do all they can to elect the best President we can possibly hope for who is going to change the damn world in 2016.

[Beacool]

61. Yeah, because we Clinton supporters are evil and spend every day

devising ways to trump Obama.

Of all the crap one has to read on this board........

[NuclearDem]

14. Obama won largely because Romney was an utterly cartoonish Dickensian villain.

And just about everyone saw him for what he was.

[Whisp]

17. Election Results:

Nominee Barack Obama Mitt Romney
Party Democratic Republican
Home state Illinois Massachusetts
Running mate Joe Biden Paul Ryan
Electoral vote 332 206
States carried 26 + DC 24
Popular vote 65,915,796[2] 60,933,500[2]
Percentage 51.1% 47.2%

Is Bill responsible for 5 million votes because of that night and the significant difference in Electoral votes? Is this what some of you are saying?

[onehandle]

18. It was the greatest speech of Bill Clinton's career and definitely impacted the race.

That being said, nominating Captain Moneybags was probably a mistake for the NRAGOP.

[Whisp]

19. would that impact be as significant as the Election results I posted above?

that's a lot of mind changing - 5 million votes.

who exactly were swayed by Clinton?

[onehandle]

22. Dunno. But I do know that President Obama barely edged out Hillary in 2008.

So a Clinton backing President Obama is a powerful thing.

Bill Clinton's speech did likely drive a lot of the 90s Clinton base to the polls.

I would have been happy with either of them for the nomination.

Those who thought President Obama would be much different than President Hillary Clinton, were fooling themselves.

Both are Centrists with socially Liberal leanings.

[Whisp]

25. I would have to disagree with that 'they are both the same'.

I only have to recollect how Clinton voted for the IWR and how chomping at the bit she was for hammering Syria instead of handling it like the President did. Plus the 8 years of killing Iraqi's under Bill's terms.

There are many more examples of one of these things is not like the others.

[onehandle]

51. Quotation Mark n., Defined...

Either of a pair of punctuation marks used primarily to mark the beginning and end of a passage attributed to another and repeated word for word, but also to indicate meanings or glosses and to indicate the unusual or dubious status of a word. They appear in the form of double quotation marks (" &quot and single quotation marks (' '). Single quotation marks are usually reserved for setting off a quotation within another quotation.

I never said 'they are both the same.'

And it's amazing that all American warfare ended the moment President Obama was sworn in. Imagine the Hell we would have rained down on our enemies if he had hired Hillary for something.

[MADem]

42. Oh, stop making sense and tamping down the bullshit and drama! How dare you make an adult

assessment that is both cogent and accurate!

Ruins the fun! This is supposed to be like the TWILIGHT series, only with politicians instead of vampires....so what's it gonna be? Are you on Team Barack, or Team Bill? You! Must! Choose!!!!!!

[Nine]

20. (S)he who smelt it, dealt it.

BC is one of those "good people that worked hard to get Obama re-elected." Some people can't refrain from bashing one Clinton or the other 24/7. Bill DID help. I personally think he helped a lot. No one is trying to take anything away from Obama. Those comments recently being made are in response to unprovoked attacks on Bill Clinton.

[MADem]

43. +1 nt

[Beacool]

63. Thank you.

I'm so fed up with the bullshit that reeks from this so called "Democratic" site on a daily basis, that it makes me sick.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

21. I doubt if the convention speech had much impact.

By the time of the general election, the convention speeches are forgotten. If they're remembered at all, it's by the die-hard Democrats and the die-hard Republicans, who will not be swayed in the general. Independents, undecideds, if they watched a convention speech at all, probably forgot about it.

It was the debates, Obama's momentum, and Romney's screw-ups. If Romney ever had a chance in hell...

[Mass]

23. Welcome to the 2016 presidential race. Bill and Hillary are the saviors of the party.

We must nominate them. See how they saved poor Obama.

I would not spend too long on this. They are not exactly known for their modesty anyway and some of their supporters are making it even worse.

To answer your question, the answer is NO. Obama was winning in most polls before Clinton's speech. He continued to win after. Clinton certainly helped, but he hurt as well as the media were very quick to tell us how wonderful he was.

[JHB]

24. IIRC, a lot of reaction was along the lines of...

..."Hey, Bill, nice to see you! Why haven't you been around talking like this for, oh, the last four years?"

Obama won the election for Obama, with the help of Romney losing for Romney.

[tridim]

26. I'm certain Bill Clinton believes that. nt

[malaise]

27. Clinton arrogance

That is all

[Nine]

74. It's Clinton arrogance that DUers think he helped Obama?

The "logic" of Clinton-haters is something to see.

[malaise]

75. I think he helped Obama

but Obama was going to win reelection anyway

[Thinkingabout]

28. Though Clinton may not be able to take credit for the Obama win, he damn sure did not hurt

Obama, in fact Clinton plus many others working hard and a grass roots campaign along with GOTV.

[AtomicKitten]

29. I lost 20 lbs and whitened my teeth with that speech!!!

It did my taxes and cured my gout too!!

Thanks, Bill!

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. "It did my taxes and cured my gout too!!"

[Freddie]

30. Mitt Romney and the GOP platform and policies

Won the election for Obama.

[Whisp]

31. It was so delicious to see Mittie and Annie

in such confused disbelief that they lost.

[Freddie]

37. She's still mad she can't get her $$ back on the curtains she ordered

[karynnj]

49. Actually that is the simple truth

The fact is that there was a brief moment - after the first debate, where I still think the media exaggerated Romney's win - when it was said it was tied.

As good as Obama's speeches, rallies and subsequent debates were, it is really hard not to give a lot of credit to Jimmy Carter's grandson and the tape that exposed Romney as who he is. The 47% takers speech was devastating. I saw some people on the fence in NJ, stick with Obama - especially as Romney seemed to double down on what he said in private.

More than anything what the tape did was to force people to look at what values Romney has -- and the view was disturbing for some. The type of people, who thought maybe the centrist Romney would be able to cut the partisanship and were thus somewhat open to Romney, suddenly saw that Romney was a genuine elitist - oddly what the Republicans always accused Democrats dishonestly of being.

[Whisp]

50. O yes indeed. Jimmy Carter's grandson

and the fellow who did the recording - Heros, that's for sure. Definitely a big turning point, what they did.

[leftynyc]

32. It didn't hurt

You say "you're hearing" which I hear as "some say" - the same bullshit that we get from the press. Are you ready to name anyone?If not, you're not helping.

[Whisp]

33. It has been said here many times

that Bill saved Obama and is directly responsible for the win. And no I can't name anyone, you know that. Nice try tho.

Just open your eyes and read and you will find many examples.

[leftynyc]

36. I've been here for a very long

time and I've never seen anyone say that Pres Obama won the election because of Bill Clinton's speech. Do you have a link? Send it to me privately if you like. I've never seen it and only see one more poster trying to fight the same PUMA wars as 5 years ago.

[MADem]

44. This is a very specific slam, make no mistake--and it's beneath DU. nt

[leftynyc]

47. You would think

posters would be embarrassed to use the same tools the press does when they want to pass along a moronic rumor ("some say", "it's been reported&quot . But I guess not.

[MADem]

55. +1 nt

[Cali_Democrat]

35. People who say that want to take credit away from Obama

Just like people who say he only got into Columbia and Harvard because he's black.

Make no mistake about it, this is about Obama's race and the notion that a black person can't do it on his/her own.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. [phone]

[Iggo]

45. I swear to god, you people keep this shit up and we're gonna lose.

The Great Clinton/Obama Primary War of '08 is over.

Knock it the fuck off.

[Whisp]

48. I know what that's like

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for so many years here all the filth I have to hear about the President all in the name of holding his feet to the fire or some other fakery, by such ugly ways only a rightwinger could come up with.

I don't think this OP or the responses are anywhere near that kind of toxicity so I will not be taking your advice and shutting up.

I sure hope you were just as upset as you appear to be here during the preamble and the 2010 mid terms. When the likes of the Hamshers and that ilk would rag on the President and Democrats in general, with no shame at all. DU was rife with rightwing like criticisms againt the President - threatening not to vote, etc., telling their friends and family what a loser Worse Than Bush the democrats and Obama were. Yes, that really helped and my OP is going to tear down the whole democratic system.

[karynnj]

46. No - There is no way to win an election by even the most electric, cogent speech at a convention

In the first place, almost everyone who watches the conventions is someone who already is decided.

The fact is that Obama was ahead of Romney before the convention -- and stayed ahead after the convention - that also included good speeches from Michelle, Castro, Biden and Kerry - to name just 4. What they - and Bill Clinton - did was to speak of the accomplishments that Obama already had, his values and what he intends to do as his platform in the future.

That said Clinton gave what may have been the best speech he ever gave - including at his own conventions.

[JoeyT]

52. I wouldn't think so.

GOTV efforts and effective campaigning is what I'd attribute most of it to, with the rest going to Obama being extremely likeable and Romney being the most unlikable person in the history of the world.

ETA: Oh that Romney. I kept waiting for him to come out with a relating to the little people story that amounted to "I hate when my accountants misplace some of my millions and I'm forced to worry about being a mere multi-millionaire. See! I know what economic uncertainty is too!". The worst wasn't their being utterly clueless about what average people face, it was their utter bafflement that the peasantry didn't buy their shit that was the cherry on top. "I had to pay for college by selling some of my stock, so I know what it is to struggle. Why are all those people laughing?"

[kentuck]

53. I don't think so.

Bill Clinton doesn't walk on water.

[NCTraveler]

56. No, but it sure didn't hurt.

Campaigning is where Obama excels in life. He and his team could not be beat by Romney. Clinton was a part of his team. Who in this world wouldn't want Clinton as a part of their team. Ohh...That's right, Gore.

[gopiscrap]

58. he helped

[Beacool]

60. The only undercurrent that I smell is the B.S. emanating from this thread.

Clinton and Obama have a professionally cordial relationship. Why not leave it at that, instead of always trying to divide Democrats. Bill Clinton extended himself and was anywhere the Obama campaign asked him to be. He gave a superb speech at the Democratic Convention.

Therefore, why this persistent need to sow discord?

[Whisp]

66. The discord was sown against Obama here a long time ago

and the sowers now want shhhh and respect for the Clintons.

Bill Clinton did not re-elect the President, single handedly with a cape and all that nonsense. It is a valid topic to discuss because contrary to what is said here in this thread, I have heard it many, many times here on DU. I'm not making that up.

So deal. If the topic is too harsh or hurtful for you and your sensibilities then I suggest trashing it or just having the willpower not to read or participate in it.

[Beacool]

67. Too hurtful? Sweets, what's annoying is the constant nonsense you write.

No matter what the topic of the article, if it's about a Clinton you run to crap on it. This is just your latest literary effort and it doesn't help. Constantly ascribing nefarious intentions to even the most innocuous remarks is not only ridiculous, it's divisive.

The Democratic Party better not fall into the same internal war that is currently plaguing the GOP or we'll lose.

[Whisp]

68. It's strange that you can't help yourself

from reading my 'nonsense'.

[Beacool]

69. Someone has to push back...........

[Bluenorthwest]

62. What does 'I'm hearing this' mean? Where are you hearing this?

So odd. I'm hearing this.

[Nine]

73. Whisp thought it would be productive to continue this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023966661

Note Whisp's own post #32 there.

People were defending Bill Clinton against unprovoked bashing in that thread. Now Whisp is trying to pretend that Clinton supporters were bashing Obama.

[Beacool]

77. Bingo!!

Thank you, I just don't have the energy to constantly fight these inane battles. Is this nonsense going to continue for the next three years????

[Whisp]

83. ah, I see. It's 'nonsense' now

but I don't remember you ever coming into a thread to support the President. It is usually the opposite - years of unnecessary negativity toward him. And I guess that's okay because as much as I don't like how the President can be attacked here with the same r/w talking points we hear on the likes of Fox, etc., it is allowed and encouraged. It is what it is.

But now you want the rules to change and all to play nice because it's just not fair to be mean to Hillary.

[fried eggs]

64. The speech was pretty much forgotten after the first debate

Clinton's speech was amazing, and President Obama's poll numbers spiked after that amazing convention, but none of that mattered after the first debate. President Obama "built" everything that happened after that.

I am so happy that President Obama was reelected because he was the best person for the job. Still, there were many moments where it looked like Rmoney was purposely throwing the election. Running for president was just another get rich quick scheme for Romney.

[SidDithers]

65. "The undercurrent of this has a smell to it that we should all recognize."...

Nailed it.

The speech contributed to Obama's win, but Obama won the election.

Sid

[Prophet 451]

70. No, he didn't

Now, that's not to say that Clinton's speech made no difference. It certainly helped. But the election was Obama's to lose, especially after the 47% video.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

72. no, but he definitely helped. so when people slam bill clinton, it pays to remember that he

helps obama when appropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3967451

winning doesn't happen by any one person, not even the candidate. lots of little pieces come together.

[stillcool]

78. Clinton is all about Clinton..

and nobody else.

[Capt. Obvious]

79. The election was all about who could turn out the base

Clinton helped in that endeavor in spades. That speech fired up the base.

[Shankapotomus]

80. Bill was more like

the icing on the cake.

[Whisp]

82. He may have been responsible for some dems

getting off their couches and voting, sure.

But not 5,000,000.

So I have my answer and it is a clear No, bill clinton's speech was just that - not a turning point or reason for the win or anything like that.

[Shankapotomus]

84. No, I would never take that victory away from Barack

Sure, Clinton jumped on the train at full speed, no doubt.

[B Calm]

81. He gave a powerful speech and it helped get out the vote.