Would Howard Dean have refused to back Christie's opponent?

[MannyGoldstein]

I highly doubt it.

And Dr. Dean was the winningest DNC Chairperson in decades, by miles. Miles and miles.

So cut out the nonsense about the Democratic leadership supporting Christie because it's "good politics". It's shitty politics, and it's an utter breach of integrity.

UPDATE: No need to guess... http://www.northjersey.com/news/Group_founded_by_former_presidential_candidate_Howard_Dean_endorses_Buono_in_NJ_governors_race.html

[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. Yea, but Howard Dean hasn't seen the wisdom ($$$) of 3rd-Way politics.

[rhett o rick]

6. .

[brooklynite]

2. UNREC

Howard Dean didn't support ANY Republican's opponent...

He was the DNC Chair. The DNC DOES NOT WORK FOR CANDIDATES. It raises money and works to build State Party organizations. Support of candidates is left to the DSCC, DCCC and DGA.

But, if you want to continue to live in a fantasy world, be my guest.

[FogerRox]

89. The OP is refering to prominent NJ Democrats who

are all buddy buddy with Christie and did not work hard for Barbara Buono.

Like Essex County Executive, Democrat Joseph N. DiVincenzo who endorsed Christie back in June.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/06/essex_county_executive_joseph_divincenzo_endorses_christie.html

[brooklynite]

107. The OP also insinuates that Dean as DNC Chair would have played an active role in the Buono campaign

[rhett o rick]

101. So what's your point after all that? Do you support Christie? Do you hate Gov Dean?

I cant tell from your post.

Bottom line, do you think the Democrats of NJ should have supported Gov Christie?

[brooklynite]

105. My UNREC is for misleading people about Dean's role as DNC Chair

Do I think State Party officials should have supported her? Yes. Do I think national Democratic Party officials should have supported her? Not if their resources could have been better used elsewhere. Which seams to have been Dean's position as well.

[sabrina 1]

103. Prominent Democrats supported a Republican Candidate. That is a FACT now. Not the first time either

btw. Now we Dems have to decide where we go from here. You are wasting your time trying to defend this, the anger out there over this is palpable, as it should be.

But it sure made a whole lot of things VERY clear to even those who were still clinging to the hope that maybe they were going to be pleasantly surprised.

The picture is crystal clear and no amount of think tank talking points is going to change anyone's mind. We are all a whole lot wiser than we used to be.

Dems supporting Repubs. Who would have thought this could happen? I do remember a few people trying to tell me way back, how naive I was and how angry I used to be at them. I owe them an apology, THEY were right and I WAS naive. But not any more.

[brooklynite]

109. The anger out there?

The only anger I've seen is here at DU.

[sabrina 1]

112. I don't spend much time at DU. You need to get out there and start interacting with Progressive Dems

all over the country now, who are organizing and joining forces now with major Liberal and Advocacy organizations, along with Unions to begin the changes necessary to begin the reversal of the Right Wing policies that we, Dems, inadvertently helped keep in place by continuing to support people who in no way represent Democratic Party principles. It took time, we had see it all play out, and now we have, before understanding what needs to be done to bring about the necessary changes that will turn this government into a Government that actually represents the people, rather than the Corporations. I am enthusiastic now that we are far more informed than we were, about the future of the Dem Party.

[brooklynite]

114. Name some names...

...which progressive groups have expressed anger at how the Democrats treated Buono?

[sabrina 1]

115. Oh, it started way before Buono. But this latest betrayal will only motivate them further I am sure.

It started back before the last election when Unions announced that for the last time they would put their considerable money and support behind Dems, but were joining a coalition of other Liberal organizations because they no longer trusted Dems to represent their interests. At the first meeting of that coalition they raised over ten million dollars. What are their goals? As I understand it, they intend to choose their own candidates AND direct their huge funds to those candidates which normally went to the Dem Party, to ensure that their candidates are not sidelined, as Buono was, by the party leadership.

I think it is really exciting to be a witness to this period in our political history. Finally, progressives have had enough of the abuses thrown their way by the leadership of a party they have been so loyal to. The winds of changeare blowing.

[brooklynite]

116. So the answer is....none

"the anger out there over this is palpable". your quote.

[sabrina 1]

121. Where have you been? Are you really unaware of the Coalition that was formed before the 2012

election by Liberal Orgs, sick and tired of the betrayals of the party they have been so loyal to, with the Unions and SS Advocacy Groups? That seems odd to me, I assumed every Democrat was fully aware of it. Names? Do you mean Organizations or Individuals? This is a coalition of millions of individuals who belong to different Liberal Organizations who up to now, could be counted on to get out the vote for the Dem Party. But, who no longer feel represented by the party to whom they have given time, money and support. Surely this is not news to you?

[brooklynite]

122. Then it should be easy to point to their op-ed / website / email expressing their anger over NJ

[Jakes Progress]

124. Stop the games..

Stop playing with words that you can weasel with like progressive/prominent and such.

Do you deny that Democrats from the party in New Jersey endorsed christie for election over the Democratic candidate? Did you support christie's election?

[madfloridian]

132. Here is a series of links. Follow them for names, etc. Over 50 Dem NJ leaders supported Christie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023987445

[brooklynite]

133. I'm not disputing that it happened...I'm disputing that it's a big deal

Every campaign has a "democrats for..." or Republicans for..." contingent. Yes, it would be nice if politicians showed political courage, and led rather than followed; my point is that I'm noting seeing any signs that, outside of some grumbling here, any political entities are sufficiently outraged that it's going to make a difference. Personally, a bunch of local party hacks have no interest to me at all, and likely wouldn't have influenced more than a handful of votes. My issue throughout this thread is the proper role of the national party, and I continue to think that this was a lost cause (likely long before the endorsements came) which didn't deserve national party support to the detriment of more winnable races in 2014.

[madfloridian]

134. They threw their support behind an extremist. There is no excuse for that.

A former Star Ledger reporter put the blame where it belonged.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024011439

[treestar]

117. Don't bother OP when he's found something to use against Democrats

He loves pitting Democrats against each other.

[Jakes Progress]

125. No. That was done by party members in New Jersey.

They are the ones who supported a republican over a Democrat. Who did you support in that election. If you are not from New Jersey, why do you defend the concept of Democratic office holders supporting a republican over a Democrat?

[treestar]

127. The reason he loves this subject

Is it gives him fodder for the Democrat v. Democrat schtick.

I didn't support anybody as I'm not from New Jersey.

[Jakes Progress]

131. Way to snark and duck.

Do you support Democrats who campaign for republican candidates who are running against a Democrat?

Let's see you duck that.

[treestar]

149. I don't jump on such conditions in order to prove the Democrats wrong

routinely.

I don't try to pit Obama against LBJ or FDR or a not-running Elizabeth Warren.

This subject is for me an unfortunate one; for others, it is a great chance to do their usual schtick of increasing intra-Democratic warfare.

It's their state; maybe they think things would be worse otherwise. It happens.

[Jakes Progress]

163. More ducking. No stand?

Such bullshit. Tell me if you know the OP personally. If not, how do you know his motives? Can I guess at yours? You complain that the OP pits D vs D. That is exactly what you are doing. The OP is a Democrat with excellent credentials. You might also be. But you want to pit him against other Democrats. And just what do you think a primary is other than pitting one D against another D. There is nothing wrong - and quite a bit admirable - with pointing out the shortcomings of your own party.

Why attack the OP without having any opinion about the substance of his post? This seems more personal than political.

And just for the record, did your last sentence say that you might favor campaigning for a republican against a Democrat?

[rhett o rick]

142. Do I understand that you are supporting the NJ Democrats that supported Christie?

Do you support Christie?

[treestar]

146. No I do not

What a stupid post you just made. I always support the Democrat, unless it is one of those cases where the D can't win and the other party is better than what might otherwise win. Don't be a jerk.

[rhett o rick]

148. Calling my post stupid only shows a desperation. No need for that.

Here's the logic. Some Democrats oppose Christie and some Democrats support Christie. They are pitting themselves against each other. Now I support those Democrats that oppose Christie and you support those Democrats that support Christie. We are clearly not on the same side.

[treestar]

150. OP is pitting Dean against Obama

Same old, same old.

[rhett o rick]

137. Your post adds nothing to the discussion except derision. Is that your intent?

By the way, it's naive to think that all Democrats are equal and that some dont need to be pitted against others. In fact that's what a primary is all about, pitting Democrats against each other.

[treestar]

145. That's not an excuse

And there is no primary right now.

Even when there is, it is about who is the best candidate, not about a war between them. Those who make it that way are the ones mistaken.

[rhett o rick]

147. There are Democrats that support Christie. Are you saying we should embrace them as fellow

Democrats? Do you support Christie?

[RobertEarl]

3. Hey!

Dean doesn't go around sucking up to republicans. Let's make that perfectly clear.

The nude dems do, but the Ol' Dean Dems don't. Yeah, I wrote nude Dems, because they are not new, just naked ass politicians who are whoring away our country by Tbagging as many moderates as they can.

[phleshdef]

4. Spending money to beat Christie was pretty much guaranteed to be a complete waste of money.

I don't fucking support Chris Christie's bully, loud mouthed ass. But popular is popular. Theres nothing wrong with facing reality when it comes to deciding where to spend party money, especially in today's Citizen's United political culture.

[RobertEarl]

9. Wrong.

They should have spent whatever it took to help the Democrat by making Christie look as bad as he is. Or do you think Christie is all powerful and great? That he can't be hurt?

Well, from where I sit, they hurt Democrats by not even lifting a finger against that blowhard. Many of us around the country have been hurt by the party's lack of skill and desire. Maybe folks like you don't give a shit what the rest of us think? Seems that way....

[phleshdef]

11. Christie has maintained between a 65-70% approval rating for awhile now.

I stick to the math. And my completely objective opinion, based on the math, is that it would've been throwing party money away. Executives with high approval ratings like that rarely if ever get beaten in incumbency.

[RobertEarl]

15. He's not one of us

The party should have done whatever they could to make sure the world knows that. As it is it makes us look like one of him.

This "We can't win shit" really sucks. You should just stop it.

[phleshdef]

19. No, he isn't. And thats beside the point. Republicans do the same thing by the way.

Whenever they see a hugely popular Democratic incumbent in such a position, they direct their money to more competitive ventures as well.

[SoapBox]

69. 65 - 70%?

Amongst exactly who? That number seems really high?

...just like to be crystal clear.

[phleshdef]

74. It was in the mid 50s before Hurricane Sandy.

But after that it went up as high as 70 and is somewhere in the mid to upper 60s right now.

Here is an article from just a few weeks ago.

The poll shows that the incumbent governor's overall job grade and approval are strong: 60 percent grade the governor B or higher and 67 percent approve of the overall job he is doing.

http://www.politickernj.com/69061/poll-gop-independent-voters-fuel-christies-61-approval-rating-buono-unknown

[pinto]

5. Apparently it was a tactical and financial decision. Not ideological.

Do I support it? No.

Yet I see the thinking. It wasn't winnable. The party moved assets to other campaigns. As it is we barely won the VA race.

I'd like to hear Dean's take on the NJ race. I strongly support the 50 state approach that he brought to the the DNC.

[WillyT]

7. Dean Had A 50 State Strategy... The Dem Establishment... Not So Much...

And here I thought we learned our lesson...

Apparently not.

[phleshdef]

13. Yea but Howard Dean's 50 state strategy includes embracing blue dogs.

The same people complaining about the lack of Howard Dean's strategy as of late are the same people that complained about the results of Howard Dean's strategy because it relied on elevating more conservative Democrats in red districts.

[joshcryer]

24. Yeah, Dean defended Blue Dogs.

Which people like the OP have trashed on many occasions. They are Third Way!

[MannyGoldstein]

30. And all other Democratic nominees. nt

[joshcryer]

34. Dean endorses every single Democratic nominee?

Every one? Wow.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. As far as a I know.

Do you know differently?

[joshcryer]

39. I know he didn't endorse Anthony Weiner.

[awoke_in_2003]

75. Weiner is a deviant. nt

[Uncle Joe]

120. Did Dean endorse Weiner's Opponent? n/t

[FogerRox]

92. Essex Cnty Exec Dem Joe Dee. endorsed Chstire in June.

Essex is one of the strongest Dem counties in NJ.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/06/essex_county_executive_joseph_divincenzo_endorses_christie.html

[phleshdef]

33. The OPs problem is they don't accept the fact that there aren't enough diehard liberal voters....

....or enough diehard electable lawmakers to carry it all on our own. We have to maintain a coalition with moderates who answer to a conservative constituency... at least for now.

Its not the third way, its the achievable way.

I want progressive utopia as much as the next guy whos name rhymes with Ganny Moldstein. But math is math. Votes are votes. Seats are seats. I'd rather have to work with a blue dog and spend half of what I want, because it would still be 2-3 times more than I could be able to spend when dealing with a Tea Bagger Congress. I'd rather have to work with a blue dog and tax half the rate I want because it would be infinitely more than dealing with this crew of shit heads.

[joshcryer]

44. It's hard to take it seriously, really.

It's about scoring points than it is about having a legitimate political discussion. This forum was ecstatic when the Blue Dogs lost even though we lost Grayson and Feingold at the same time. And, they, ridiculously, argued that the Blue Dogs lost because they weren't liberal enough.

[geek tragedy]

56. Ideologues generally flunk math. nt

[SidDithers]

79. +1...nt

Sid

[treestar]

119. Achievable Way

Exactly. Instead of running on pipe dreams and losing and making the pipe dreams even more ephemeral and far off.

The National Dems should have poured tons of money into this, so that money would not be available in a race that would be closer.

[treestar]

118. Excellent point

[bluestate10]

8. Did Howard Dean go to New Jersey to campaign for Bono?

If Dean didn't, there was nothing to stop him.

[RobertEarl]

14. Did Obama?

If Obama didn't, there was nothing to stop him.

See, we can all play that stupid fucking game. The party abandoned our member, like they have done time and again. The activists in th country are really getting pissed off. Dean inspired us. Maybe you party hacks don't give a shit about all us Liberal activists?

[JI7]

17. the OP is about Dean and who/what he would have done

[Pretzel_Warrior]

37. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

The reaction actually PROVES the purity principle. Nope, we can't be happy that a Dem took a GOP governer's seat. That candidate was too third way. He's a corporatist and no better than a Republican. Oh, but when confronted with a progressive being over 30 points behind in the race against Cristie since the Hurricane event last year, they only blame the Dem establishment. It's not the idea that any Dem would have had a hard time against Christie....no...it was FRIENDLY FIRE!

[bluestate10]

83. The dynamic is the same as what is happing on the republican side.

Teabaggers bash RINOs, but after getting their asses handed to them yesterday, teabaggers are enraged that RINOs didn't come charging to save them. When people are extreme enough, their reasoning becomes muddled.

[1StrongBlackMan]

106. I've been listening to beck ...

on my way home ... and I'm constantly amazed at the similarity of argument there, as here ... The tea-party lost in a purple, trending blue state because he wasn't conservative enough and lack of party support/a Democrat loses in Maricopa or Yuma County, Arizona (to pick a spot) because he was not progressive enough and lack of party support.

It's scary that people so willingly (and loudly) ignore political demographics.

[Number23]

159. This post is the ONLY thing that explains the head-bangingly stupid "we hate centrists" extremism

that has been slowly creeping over this site for months but appears to have exploded in an orgy of impotent stupidity over the last few days. "Muddled" is a very kind way to describe this type of "thinking."

You would think that folks that hate being compared to the Tea Party so much would stop behaving like them in every way.

[rhett o rick]

90. I think Gov Dean has been exiled from the Democratic Party Machine which is

apparently happy with Gov Christie's victory. This isnt surprising because the Party Machine isnt much farther left than the Gov of NJ.

A conservative's dream race - Ms. Clinton vs. Gov Christie.

[FogerRox]

94. Dean was in NJ for Bouno, repeatedly

[JI7]

10. did Howard Dean do anything to support Buono ? Dean raised funds for Terry McAuliffe

one doesn't need to be DNC Chair to support another Democrat .

[joshcryer]

23. Nope, DFA didn't donate a dime to Buono.

I guess we should now throw Dean under the bus.

[grantcart]

77. Neither Dean nor DFA contributed money to Buono or did fund raising.

Dean did a number of fund raising for Dems including McAuliffe and Shaheen

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/29/1242302/-NH-Sen-Howard-Dean-Fundraises-For-Jeanne-Shaheen-D

The DFA contributed money to lots of candidates that they thought could win, including VA state races, but apparently not a dime for Buono.

http://www.leesburgtoday.com/news/mcauliffe-comstock-bell-lead-campaign-fundraising/article_26a5f3de-368c-11e3-a770-0019bb2963f4.html

Some of Bell’s top donors include Firefighters International Association ($10,000); Democracy for America, a liberal group founded by former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean ($8,420); Laborers Mid-Atlantic Regional Organization ($5,350) and Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia ($2,500). Some of Ramadan’s top donors include Virginia Dental Association ($2,000), Virginia Auto Dealers Association ($1,500) and Dominion energy company ($1,000).

[TeeYiYi]

12. k+r ...

...and an opportunity to repost this video: Spirited Barbara Buono concedes governorship to Christie, calls out 'Democratic political bosses' http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2013/11/spirited_barbara_buono_concede.html

TYY

[adirondacker]

20. NJ Lost!

[TeeYiYi]

45. Yes they did...

Stupid fucks! Dumbasses! Democratic traitors!

TYY

[adirondacker]

63. Know the feeling...

I worked on Lamonts campaign in defeating the independent Lieberman and watched Clinton come to town to throw his support behind his old buddy Joe. Sickening.

[geek tragedy]

16. Yeah, Dean helped crush Schwarzenegger in California in 2006.

Christie was never in danger of losing. Reality is harsh.

[JI7]

18. did Dean express support for Buono for Gov the way he has for Hillary for PResident ?

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Not at all. Dean unreservedly endorsed Buono.

He only said he's supporting Hillary "at this point", and won't say that he's not running against her.

[JI7]

25. so why didn't he donate any money to her campaign the way he did for McAuliffe ?

[MannyGoldstein]

28. At least he *endorsed* her. Unreservedly.

That's a helluva lot more than our Democratic leadership did, don't you agree?

[JI7]

31. i would say he unreservedly supported McAuliffe by donating to him

why didn't he donate to her ?

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Why didn't Obama and other Democratic leaders even endorse Buono?

Why did it take Obama months to endorse Elizabeth Warren? He did so only a few weeks before the general election?

[JI7]

36. your OP is about howard dean , it's already been said by others that they didn'tt hink she could

win.

but you started the OP abotu what Dean would have done. and we see that he donated to McAuliffe even though he had a lot of money unlike Buono who Dean did not donate to.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. I said that Dean would support her.

And he did.

Does Dr. Dean run DFA? I don't think so.

[JI7]

47. but Dean himself raised money for McAuliffe which he didn't do for Buono

[MannyGoldstein]

51. Dean endorsed Buono, not Christie.

The man has limited time, how he spends it is up to him.

Was Obama too busy to endorse Buono? Or does he simply prefer Christie's policies? What's your guess?

[JI7]

55. Dean had time to raise money for McAuliffe, are you seriously suggesting he didn't do it for Buono

because he didn't have time ?

as for Obama it's already been said that he did not think she could win . you started the OP about Dean also.

[MannyGoldstein]

59. Again: did Obama refuse to endorse Buono because he was too busy, or

because he prefer's Christie's positions on the issues?

[JI7]

62. Obama didn't think she could win , he endorsed De Blasio

[FogerRox]

96. Dean was in NJ for Bouno, repeatedly

I got many invites the last month, I dont know where you get your info.

[tabbycat31]

143. His brother runs DFA

And DFA is very active in parts of NJ. I know Jim Dean came to NJ to campaign for a few local and assembly races.

[rhett o rick]

141. After all the flack, the bottom line is that Dean supported Buono and the Conservative

Democrats supported the Republican. It doesnt matter that Dean only supported her 40% or 70% or that he drives a Chevy. That's all flack trying to deflect from the fact that Conservative-Democrats love Gov Christie. You can see it in this thread.

[phleshdef]

40. He didn't need to endorse Warren. He fucking hired her for awhile not long before the election.

You aren't stupid Manny, you know damn good and well that no one questioned whether or not President Obama was for Elizabeth Warren.

If anything, it was more sensible to wait until the election was near to make an endorsement, in her case, because that's when everyone is paying attention.

Stop being silly.

[joshcryer]

48. Oh, and Obama kicked her out of the CFPB, don't forget!

Nevermind we know for a fact she didn't want the CFPB position and wanted to go on to be a Senator.

[phleshdef]

57. Yea and nevermind that he appointed Richard Cordray, who Warren endorsed.

He even went as far as to recess appoint him at first, if I remember correctly.

[FogerRox]

95. Dean was NJ many times to campaign for her.

NJ 4 DFA gave to Buono.

[JI7]

99. do you have a link to Dean campaigning for her and donating to her

[FogerRox]

108. I said NJ4 DFA, thats not Dean or DFA, its a State PAC.

[JI7]

113. i'm talking about Howard Dean himself , i don't doubt

those state groups and others supported buono.

[rhett o rick]

138. The point of the OP is that not only did some prominant NJ Democrats not support

Bouno, they supported Christie. The point is that Dean would never have supported a Republican. And you are trying to counter that by claiming Dean didnt do enough. At least Dean was supporting a Republican. Seems some here are trying to rationalize Democrats supporting Christie. Wow.

[joshcryer]

21. Dean's PAC didn't give Buono a DIME.

DFA, Howard Dean's liberal PAC, officially backed Buono last week and although it has no plans to put money behind the endorsement, it says the official backing is more "about activating our boots on the ground in the state."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chris-christie-challenger-barbara-buono-lost-amid-obama/story?id=19278119&page=3

So this is bullshit Manny. You're trying to make us throw Dean under the bus by this logic.

[grantcart]

26. They did however post several impassioned threads in various discussion forums.

[MannyGoldstein]

46. Does Howard Dean run DFA? nt

[joshcryer]

50. He is the founder.

So, uh, I would think so.

[MannyGoldstein]

52. So, uh, why don't you go check?

Let us all know what you find out, OK?

[joshcryer]

58. Why don't you?

Here, I made it easy: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/about/team

I will laugh so hard if you come back and say that Dean, the Founder of Democracy For America, doesn't control it.

[MannyGoldstein]

60. Who's that guy who has the title of "Chair"? nt

[joshcryer]

65. His brother. We're going in Circles.

You do realize that Dean's endorsement comes from the fact that Democracy for America endorsed her, right? Not Dean himself.

Waste of time. DFA is Dean's PAC and is how he chooses to support campaigns.

[scheming daemons]

84. Manny is often disingenuos... He can't accept when he's been proven wrong.

And it is quite often.

[rhett o rick]

139. What I find interesting is the fervor that the Conservative-Democrats are rationalizing the

NJ Democrats supporting Republicans. Your need to insult only proves your lack of arguments.

[Number23]

160. Yep. The only thing more humorous than his obvious "disingenousness" is his small cadre of ever so

impassioned cronies that post 10+ times in each of his threads in snarling response to anyone that dares to point out the OP's deliberate, often and beyond boring "disingenousness"

[FogerRox]

110. You are 100% correct

& NJ 4 DFA is a state PAC.

[FogerRox]

97. His brother Jim Dean runs DFA

[Deep13]

27. No. nt

[RZM]

29. Was it that hard to be the winningest

In the off year elections in Bush's second term?

Traditionally the party not in the WH picks up seats in those elections. And Bush's numbers were in the toilet.

Any DNC chair could have done that. Not hating on the guy. I think he did a good job. But still.

[Recursion]

38. Also, I think people misunderstand the 50 state strategy

It meant getting enough money to the party committees in all 50 states and commonwealths (plus DC and the territories, incidentally) to hire ground staff. It means strengthening central national control and coordination. It was, for lack of a better word, shoring up the establishment.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. How many people thought Dems would win back both houses?

Nobody.

Dems won back both houses because they ran campaigns in every state and won opportunistic victories when strong candidates stumbled, like Mark Foley.

[geek tragedy]

49. No, they won because people were pissed at Bush.

National mood was against Bush, intensely so.


Chuck Schumer ran the Senate campaign, not Dean. His recruits. (Tester, Sherrod Brown etc) won big in 2006 and 2008.

[MannyGoldstein]

54. $20 if you can find a single mainstream prediction from before the election

that Dems would win both houses.

[geek tragedy]

61. That was easy. Pay up.

http://news.virginia.edu/node/1031?id=1031

Nov. 10, 2006 -- In a closely contested midterm election which saw party control of both chambers of Congress up for grabs, Larry J. Sabato’s Crystal Ball, an election analysis and forecasting Web site produced by the University of Virginia Center for Politics accurately predicted a gain of 6 Senate Seats and 29 House seats for Democrats. Predicting a gain of 7 governorships, the Crystal Ball was within one seat of the actual results.

Senate

Crystal Ball Predictions, +6 Dems
Election Results as of Nov. 9, +6 Dems

House

Crystal Ball Predictions, +29 Dems
Election Results as of Nov. 9, +29 Dems

Governor

Crystal Ball Predictions, +7 Dems
Election Results as of Nov. 9, +6 Dems

Several major cable news networks recognized Larry J. Sabato’s Crystal Ball as being the most accurate source of election predictions in 2006:

[MannyGoldstein]

64. Mainstream?

Can you cite a mainstream publication that regularly references this service? I never heard of 'em.

[geek tragedy]

66. You've never heard of Larry Sabato?

From his Wikipedia page:

The extensive use of Sabato as a "Dr. Dial-a-Quote"[18] has been noted in political media circles and attributed to his easy quotability and ability to offer pronouncements on a wide variety of topics.[3] The Wall Street Journal refers to Sabato as "probably the most quoted college professor in the land"[1][4] and some members of the news media have a rhyme referring to Sabato's availability for a quick quip on politics: "Need a quote/Do not tarry/Call U-Va./And ask for Larry."[19]

The number of times he has been quoted annually has risen dramatically over the years: 78 times in 1992; 122 times in 1996; 179 in 2000; and 344 times in 2004.[2] A 1996 New Republic article found that over the course of just one month, Sabato had been quoted as an expert on a large range of political topics: "Perot's exclusion from the debates, Clinton's policy toward Iraq, Whitewater, Dole's attitude toward pot-smoking, Dick Morris, negative ads, (and) the continued relevance of political parties."[2]

His ability to speak on a wide range of topics had led to a similarly wide range of titles for Sabato, including: "an expert on political scandals" in an article about misdeeds in the Ohio GOP, a "congressional expert" when writing about a congressional election, an "expert on presidential affairs" when writing about a presidential visit, and "an expert in opinion and opinion making" when discussing Katie Couric's declining ratings.[20]

[joshcryer]

68. I'll expect your $20 bitcoin tip any minute now.

[geek tragedy]

70. Real Clear politics poll average showed D+6 in 2006

For the senate.

Anyone who was paying attention saw this coming.

[joshcryer]

72. It's never a shock.

The Congress almost always flips. It's actually by design:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidents_and_control_of_congress

[MannyGoldstein]

71. Looks like you win

I see his predictions in a fair number of places.

Tell me where to send the check.

That being said... I'm pretty sure that almost nobody predicted that the Dems would pick up both houses.

[joshcryer]

73. I think your brain is misremembering.

I think what ultimately happened was that we were utterly defeated in 2004 and had just gone through 5 years of hell so we were just overwhelmed by the win. I don't think it meant that we were unaware that we would win, but we were just cynical and demoralized and it left a bigger impression than it should have.

I remember that time, it was an amazing election.

6 months before the election I think no one could've predicted how big the wins would be.

6 days before the election it was a certainty.

[scheming daemons]

85. Almost every prediction in the lead up to '06 predicted a dem sweep

Manny... Being disingenuous again.

[go west young man]

42. Dems should of just focused on the crap roads and tolls through

New Jersey. That state truly sucks. Hence the reason it's called New Yorks garbage dump. Not that New York City is much better.

[liberal_at_heart]

53. I'm so glad you are calling them out on it. Anyone who dares criticize any democrat is getting

attacked, but this must be called attention to. We cannot stand silent after something like this.

[merrily]

67. Which Dean? 2004 Dean or 2013 Dean?

I think Dean has changed.

[JDPriestly]

76. By not fighting hard against Christie, the leadership of the Democratic Party has set Christie

up to run for president on the Republican ticket. The DLC wants to put Hillary up against Christie. And that's not good for us Democrats. Much as I can't stand Christie, he has warmth. It's phony, but it will sell. Hillary does not have warmth.

Not backing Christie's opponent, not stopping Christie now in New Jersey or at least trying to with all our Democratic might is a huge mistake. It may cost us the presidency in 2016. And frankly, the country cannot afford a Christie presidency. It would be horrible for working people and especially for education and teachers.

[rhett o rick]

78. To the general public, the Democrats not fighting Christie is almost like endorsing him. nm

[JDPriestly]

81. Yes.

[FogerRox]

98. Dems in NJ endorsed Christie

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/06/essex_county_executive_joseph_divincenzo_endorses_christie.html

[rhett o rick]

100. Fock them. They should be ex-communicated from the Party. But that doesnt excuse the national

Democrats from their endorsement of Christie.

I say fight the bastards on every front. Bullshit with saving our powder.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

135. Who in the national Democratic Party endorsed Christie?

[rhett o rick]

136. Who in the national Democratic Party came out against Christie? nm

[Proud Liberal Dem]

153. I dunno

I just assumed that they were not supporting/endorsing him because they are Democrats and he is a Republican. Or is this a thing where if you don't say you're against somebody or you don't comment on a specific race that you're supporting the opposition candidate?

[rhett o rick]

155. Buono was damned with faint praise. And those Dems that supported the REpublican, her opponent,

will they be censured by the national organization? Hell no! The Conservative-Democrats love Christie.

[joeybee12]

80. It is shitty politics...had the Dems supported Buono a little, there wouldn't have

been such a landslide, and the media storyline would be compltely different...I call bs on anyone who says this was a smart move...it's incompetence.

[chimpymustgo]

126. It's also just bending over. Content in the role of Washington Generals. Everybody still gets paid.

It's ridiculous. I realized by election day, I couldn't pick Buono out of a line-up. How is that possible???

The effort was well orchestrated.

[scheming daemons]

82. Howard Dean, being a smart tactician, would not have wasted $$ in NJ. I love Howard....

....and you discredit him by thinking he would throw good money down a rathole that could do more good elsewhere.

[scheming daemons]

86. This thread is evidence that people reflexively rec Manny's threads...

...without actually reading them.

[JI7]

93. maybe they are afraid what they read

would go against what they hope to be true.

[99Forever]

128. I read it, I'll recommend it. In fact, I read all of the replies also.

Only idiots make claims as to what other people do or don't do with zero knowledge or evidence of said actions.

[SidDithers]

129. Yup...

Manny could post the phone book, and it would get 100 recs from his devoted followers.

Sid

[Autumn]

88. Automatic Manny rec.

Shitty politics indeed.

[Bluenorthwest]

91. The Third Way types are stoked that Christie won. It is what they wanted.

They are self serving money grubbers.

[Jakes Progress]

104. I wonder how many cristie for president types are posting here.

I think we can read this thread and find a number that would welcome that ticket. I mean if Democrats actually nominated a real Democrat for president, many posting here would find their way to voting for christie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

111. I would guess ...

close to none. But that's just my guess.

[SidDithers]

130. Libertarian Rand Paul for President types, on the other hand...nt

Sid

[rhett o rick]

144. My guess is 6 to 8. They show their hand when they deride an OP that is disgusted with

DEMOCRATS voting for a Republican. They are clearly trying to deflect the discussion from DEMOCRATS supporting a Republican with some shit about Dean.

I think the logic goes like this, "Dean didnt do enough to support Buono therefore its ok that NJ Democrats supported the Republican." or maybe like this, "What? Democrats supported Christie, HEY! Look over there at Dean. He didnt do enough to support Buono. Shame on him."

Conservative-Democrats like Gov Christie and it showed in NJ.

[1StrongBlackMan]

152. I think you ...

are seeing/have seen what you want to see.

[rhett o rick]

156. I see turn-coat DEmocrats supporting a Republican and some here supporting their decision.

What do you see?

[1StrongBlackMan]

158. I saw DUers condemning ...

Democrats for supporting/endorsing christie ... roundly.

I saw one DUer, that has knowledge of NJ politics (JoePhilly), explaining WHY Democrats supported/endorsed christie ... and it had nothing to do with supporting christie or his politics. (Explaining why is not supporting or agreeing with what has been explained.)

I saw DUers (responding to the question of whether Dean would have supported/endorsed christie) pointing out that Dean didn't do a whole lot to support Buono.

I see DUers ignoring what happened and why because it gives them another opportunity to be critical of Democrats ... That's what I saw/see.

[rhett o rick]

162. I see posters being critical of the OP which is critical of turn-coat Dems supporting Christie.

The OP was critical of people supporting Christie and some here were critical of the OP. Explain that.

"I saw one DUer, that has knowledge of NJ politics (JoePhilly), explaining WHY Democrats supported/endorsed christie ... and it had nothing to do with supporting christie or his politics. (Explaining why is not supporting or agreeing with what has been explained.) " Again, rationalization for Democrats supporting Christie.

Democrats in NJ supported Christie, most likely the number one nominee candidate for the REpublicans and someone rationalizes that it's ok? Do you think it was ok?

The OP says that Dean wouldnt have supported a REpublican and the rebuttal is that Dean didnt support enough. That's supposed to justify that Democrats supported a Republican?

It sounds like you are rationalizing why it is ok for Democrats to support Christie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

164. No ...

"I saw one DUer, that has knowledge of NJ politics (JoePhilly), explaining WHY Democrats supported/endorsed christie ... and it had nothing to do with supporting christie or his politics. (Explaining why is not supporting or agreeing with what has been explained.) " Again, rationalization for Democrats supporting Christie.

Explaining something is not rationaling something ... it's the key to understanding, and possibly, repeating something from occurring again.

Democrats in NJ supported Christie, most likely the number one nominee candidate for the REpublicans and someone rationalizes that it's ok? Do you think it was ok?

No ... I think neither are okay ... supporting christie is not okay (in some instances, understandable but not a choice I hope I would have made) and neither is supporting those that made that choice ... but, for the third time, explaining WHY something occurs is not, approving that the something occurred.

The OP says that Dean wouldnt have supported a REpublican and the rebuttal is that Dean didnt support enough. That's supposed to justify that Democrats supported a Republican?

Let me re-check ... but I thought I read where those you are complaining about (i.e., the "Dean didn't support enough" group) are making the same counter-argument as those that had President Obama as endorsing christie ... when it was shown that President Obama had, in fact, endorsed Buono, the refrain was "well, he didn't support her enough!" Same with national Democrats, they endorsed her but did not fund her ... same as Dean ... re-read it, isn't THAT what happened in this thread?

It sounds like you are rationalizing why it is ok for Democrats to support Christie.

Not surprising ...

[Jakes Progress]

102. No. Because he is a Democrat. Not a reagan democrat.

[DonCoquixote]

123. OK, lets say we knew

beyond a shadow of a doubt that CC was going to win. Even the iron hand of God could not stop it.

We still should have been agressive, because only when we apply REALpressure do our opponents screw up and say the gaffess that make them lose, ala Mitt's 47% gaffe.

We need to put pressure on him now before he hires 'consultants" who will make sure he cannot so much as order a latte without checking the tea leaves.

[rhett o rick]

140. I think this thread shows that the Conservative-Democrats support Christie.

They spin all kinds of bs to deflect the fact that NJ Democrats actually supported Christie.

[JEB]

151. It shows pathetic weakness for any Dem to support Sideshow Blob.

Extreme Conservative policy marbled with the empty calories of rudeness, arrogance and belligerence in a blue state. C'mon even many Pukes know that NJ would be better off with Buono as Gov.

[JoePhilly]

154. Slow day at the manufactured outrage widget factory.

Being perpetually disgruntled is a fulltime job.

[rhett o rick]

157. So you see a need to disparage those that are not happy with Democrats voting

for Gov Christie. Does that mean you support Gov Christie? Or is your visit just to disrupt?

[JoePhilly]

165. Haven't we had 10 or so OPs on this topic?

The endless hand wringing around here isn't going to be "disrupted" very much by me. If I could disrupt it, I'd suggest that folks take their disappointment and try to do something positive with it, but that's a waste of time in these threads.

Of course I do have every right to comment on this aspect of DU ... certainly as much as you do to wring your hands endlessly.

And no, sorry to disappoint you, but I do not support Christie, he's an ass.

And sadly, he was going to win that election no matter what ... unless he started to send cell phone images of his junk to middle school kids.

[ProSense]

161. Howard Dean for Hillary 2016.

You on board?