For Your Consideration... U.S. Assassinations Of American Citizens..

[WillyT]

Via Glenn Greenwald of Salon.com: "In a speech at Northwestern University yesterday, Attorney General Eric Holder provided the most detailed explanation yet for why the Obama administration believes it has the authority to secretly target U.S. citizens for execution by the CIA without even charging them with a crime, notifying them of the accusations, or affording them an opportunity to respond, instead condemning them to death without a shred of transparency or judicial oversight. The administration continues to conceal the legal memorandum it obtained to justify these killings, and, as The New York Times' Charlie Savage noted, Holder's "speech contained no footnotes or specific legal citations, and it fell far short of the level of detail contained in the Office of Legal Counsel memo...". The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

Video:

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[bluestate10]

1. If anyone encourages killing of innocent americans.

Or actively participate in killing innocent americans, including the elderly and young, I encourage the CIA to kill them whereever they are found. Most people that died on 9/11 were not the hateful strain that we see daily among republican campaign crowds. I am 100% with President Obama and AG Holder on this subject.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Does that include Holder who is encouraging the killing of innocent Americans?

[surfdog]

21. In my view

Intentionally posting lies about the Obama administration is disruptive and personally hurtful

You are posting lies

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. What lies? Is Holder not endorsing the killing of innocent Americans?

[USArmyParatrooper]

29. What innocent Americans?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. The Americans who haven't had a trial.

[USArmyParatrooper]

35. Who?

[a simple pattern]

6. you just encouraged the killing of innocent americans right there.

innocent until proven guilty, right?

[gholtron]

2. the guy was a f-ing terrorist

Last edited Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:36 AM - Edit history (1)

I am not going to lose sleep over this.

[WillyT]

5. How Does One... "Loose Sleep" ???

[jsmirman]

7. Let sleep the dogs of

[jsmirman]

9. somehow I fear that pun may have been too obtuse...

especially as the "zzzzzzz" thingy translates to "bored" and the other sleepy thingy translates to "snooze"

but I love the idea of letting slip the dogs of sleep...

[Dragonfli]

16. I thought it was brilliant, not obtuse at all.

[jsmirman]

19. I'm afraid I stepped on it and crushed the poor little thing

then.

I had this great visual of a drowsy hound going off leash to pad a few steps through a meadow and then... heck it with it, face down in the flowers and zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dragonfli]

15. I didn't know sleep was tight, let alone in need of loosening, is it some sort of psychic knot?

With you on the confusion.

[bongbong]

23. That's the teabagger spelling

Along with "their" for "there" or "they're", and "your" for "you're"

[USArmyParatrooper]

31. You caught a spelling error.

[think]

8. Does anyone care that Awlaki was an FBI Asset prior to 9/11

who may have had contact with the 9/11 hijackers?

Here is a former CIA operative and chief of the Bin Laden unit stating that Awlaki was an FBI asset and that the FBI got Awlaki out of the country before he could be questioned:

Dead men tell no tales....

[socialindependocrat]

10. I agree - there is proof

So people say that an American citizen is entitled to due process.

The problem is he/she is in a foreign country.

There is proof they are working with terrorist factions.
If they are hanging around with terrorists then....
they are either an undercover news reporter
or they are a terrorist.

The OP says, "without even charging them with a crime, notifying them of the accusations, or affording them an opportunity to respond"

Now anyobne who grew up in the 60's and did dope, knows
when they are under surveliance, knows when things are getting hot and knows that they are hanging around with people who
will raise the suspicion that you are doing something against the law.

Here is a guy who has his picture on TV in the U.S. and is
hiding out with AQ sympathizers. I don't think the guy has
any doubt that the U.S./CIA is gunning for his ass. If he is
falsely accused then don't you think he would write a letter
and say that he is being falsely accused.

Alternatively, if you saw a freinds picture on TV saying he was
a big terrorist wouldn't you call someone and say they were making a mistake?

I really don't think that the CIA is going to go around and assasinate someone just because of a personal grudge.

My apologies to the constitutionalists in the room but I think
we need to draw a line and separate American citizens from terrorists. IMHO

edit for typ-o

[pmorlan1]

20. Speechless

Oh my. I'm speechless.

[socialindependocrat]

26. Don't be speechless - give me some feedback

Some people here think that terrorism needs to be dealt with and
others think that the constitution protects Americans who are terrorists.

How am I supposed to grow if you don't let me know your perspective.

[bvar22]

28. For one thing, WHO draws that line, and how are they accountable?

I "hung around" with terrorist supporters in the 70s, and helped finance their activities.
So did everybody who went to an Irish Bar and donated to the Widows & Orphans jar sitting on the bar.
WHO get to decide who is a "terrorist"?

It isn't anywhere near as Black & White as the construct in your imagination,
OR in the laws as they are curretly written.
When Al Qaeda (Mujaheddin) were fighting the Soviets,
they were "Freedom Fighters".

[USArmyParatrooper]

30. So let me ask you a question.

If during WWII a US citizen decided to join the Nazi army, would you propose sending the police into enemy territory to arrest him?

[socialindependocrat]

32. Let's stay focused, please...

First, we're not talking Irish, we're talking midlle-eastern.

To answer your second question:
When AQ was fighting the Russians we supported them
and they were terrorists to the Russians (their problem)

Now, they are fighting the U.S. and they are our terrorists.

[bvar22]

34. Thats an incredibly naive distinction.

"First, we're not talking Irish, we're talking midlle-eastern (sic)."
Please tell me, from which countries or Racial origins is it OK to be affiliated with a "Terrorist" organization,
and which are not OK?

I'll need a list,
because I also support an independent Palestine,
and some of those lines are blurred.
So please tell me where that line is.

And again, WHO gets to make that distinction?
The President under the NDAA?

How will you feel when somebody like President Palin has that power?
It can happen.


"Now, they are fighting the U.S. and they are our terrorists."
Come on, man.
Please THINK it trough before responding.
Do you really believe that a Mujaheddin fighter would have to prerogative to say to his command structure,
"Gee, I'm sorry guys, but I have to quit now because you are fighting the wrong invaders?"
What do you think would happen to THAT guy?

[treestar]

38. Who should decide?

Is it really practical to have an entire trial for this kind of thing? Al Awlaki could have turned himself in if he wanted a trial.

There's a point where we have to be practical.

[treestar]

40. How is this Irish example the same thing as preaching that it is a duty to kill Americans?

The Irish problem was amongst the Irish and didn't affect Americans. No one is Ireland was saying to kill Americans.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. You don't know a lot about the CIA, I don't think. N/t

[librechik]

25. Awliki's father (in US) wrote to President Obama begging him not to kill his son

and pointing out how wrong it was, and how his son was merely exercising his 1st amendment rights.

Now we know how much that sort of appeal is worth.

[rudycantfail]

11. Such good analysis. Thanks.

[saras]

12. The "terrorist" meme is SHIT. One CANNOT THINK CLEARLY WITH IT. That is its purpose.

There is no reasonable definition of terrorism (i.e. one that includes a majority of people the world - NOT THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX - would label as terrorists) that does NOT include the United States.

So any HONEST system is ALSO going to allow foreign governments to kill American citizens who work for the terrorist system, on American soil - AND THE INNOCENT BYSTANDERS SURROUNDING THEM.

REALLY don't have a problem with that?

[truedelphi]

13. Another thing, those of us who remember the Holocaust remember that

The term "terrorist" was used to put the person into the camp.

It was not enough to be Jewish, or to be subversive. The Nazis carefully found some charge by which they could label one a "terrorist."

For instance, the crime against the state with which the Anne Frank family was charged was terrorism proven by the family owning a wireless radio.

And look back into the Nineteen Teens, when those IWW folks were attempting to end the normal, day-to-day tyranny of outrageous hours with little pay - the second that the USA entered the First World War, those people were called "enemies of the state." Speaker after speaker in Congress denounced them for aiding and abetting the Germans. And so many of the IWW people did prison sentences.

Anyway Eric holder sounded like a total fruitcake in using his daft definition of "Due process and judicial process are..."

Mr Obama, this person is not someone I envisioned being in such a high position in your Administration. Did you not realize that he once was counsel for Death squad leaders south of the border?

I feel ashamed for you. Whatever will you tell Sasha and Malia when they are old enough to understand these matters?

[Jake MacButters]

14. your voice, like those you speak of...

There were voices like yours during those past times of horror. They to warned, and showed the signs. But you like them will be ignored by the majority. Why? Because the majority, it would appear, fears more that they might be one of the enablers, and that fear causes them to be exactly that, by refusing to see the signs.

[Luminous Animal]

17. Good post, Jake MacButters. Welcome to DU.

[truedelphi]

41. My spouse read me a wonderful quote yesterday, by Howard Zinn.

To the effect that slavery genocide and war are always brought about, not by those who refuse to obey, but by those who are overly obedient.

[sudopod]

18. So you have seen the fnords. :) nt

[gholtron]

27. here is your justification

Nuff said.

[treestar]

39. Al Awlaki obviously doesn't consider himself an American citizen

He's telling people to kill Americans and that it is their duty to do so. So is he telling them they can kill him?

[mdmc]

36. ..

[treestar]

37. Do any of these people realize the question is not always clear?

For instance, Al Awlaki may not have retained his citizenship. We don't recognize dual citizenship. As I understand it, at 21, he had to pick one. He chose Yemeni and entered the US on a student visa.

So do we let terrorists keep killing while we figure this out?

IMO you're saying we can't do anything in a war zone to anyone, lest some of the battlers be US citizens. How do we know there weren't US citizens in Hiroshima?