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Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:52 AM

 

No woman should ever feel they HAVE TO abort.

For too many women, there is no choice involved in ending a pregnancy. They feel they have to abort, and that feeling is understandable.

Economic issues enter into it. Many poor women can't afford the medical care involved with pregnancy and even more can't afford to properly feed and care for a child once it is born. If we work toward eliminating poverty, some of these women who really want to have a child will be economically able to and won't feel the need to abort.

Too many pregnancies come about because of poor sex education. If we teach our kids proper contraception techniques, some of these unwanted pregnancies can be prevented from happening in the first place.

Other pregnancies come about not because of ignorance but because of a lack of effective birth control. Making contraception available to everyone who wants it without undue expense or social stigma will prevent more of these unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

The choice to end a pregnancy needs to be that: A CHOICE, and not one a woman ever feels pressured into. When we say we want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare, we are talking about the NEED for abortion, not the CHOICE.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply No woman should ever feel they HAVE TO abort. (Original post)
Pab Sungenis Nov 2013 OP
William769 Nov 2013 #1
Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #2
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #7
penultimate Nov 2013 #15
antigone382 Nov 2013 #21
antigone382 Nov 2013 #19
CTyankee Nov 2013 #3
Pab Sungenis Nov 2013 #6
surrealAmerican Nov 2013 #4
Pab Sungenis Nov 2013 #5
whttevrr Nov 2013 #8
Pab Sungenis Nov 2013 #9
whttevrr Nov 2013 #10
Pab Sungenis Nov 2013 #11
penultimate Nov 2013 #16
MoonRiver Nov 2013 #12
BrotherIvan Nov 2013 #13
cthulu2016 Nov 2013 #14
DevonRex Nov 2013 #17
MadrasT Nov 2013 #20
JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #18

Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:57 AM

1. I don't even think it needs a explanation.

It's a womans right over her body period.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:00 AM

2. We'll and good...

 

... But it is unrealistic to expect society at large to provide and care for however many kids a woman may choose to bear.

Reminds me of that news report floating around of the woman with 15 kids and demanding more and more and how someone owes her.

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:54 AM

7. Society owes the children

It's not their fault their mother is what she is.

ETA: What if she was your mother, would you want society to let you starve in the gutter?


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 02:08 PM

15. That's when you start getting into the creepy discussions of forced sterilization and

taking the children away... Things most people don't want to discuss, because it really boils to down those three options.

1) Society gives the parents money so the kids do not starve and live in the gutter
2) Take the children away and put them somewhere
3) Forced sterilization

Of course there is education, proper birth control, giving the mother a way to better her position (career training), but with the few who refuse to do anything, there aren't really any other choices that I can think of.

Most people don't want to even contemplate the forced sterilization and hopefully never will...
Taking the children away may be best in some situations, but the shitty foster system doesn't always guarantee the children will be placed in a better situation. Which is even more true with kids who may been seen as undesirable for whatever reason (behavioral problems, medical issues... and I'm willing to bet more blue eyed blond kids are adopted than minority children)

We should help the mothers/fathers who truly have the best interests of their kids at hear (Which I think most parents fall under that)

As for those kids with truly poor parents, I think we owe it to them to clean up our foster system or create something new that doesn't let these kids get passed around and abused like they are.


Ugh. I'm just blabblering.

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Response to penultimate (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 03:06 PM

21. You don't really have to go that far.

We know the statistical trends of providing a full social safety net, access to sex education, and access to adequate reproductive healthcare: birthrates decline to replacement levels, or even below them. If a few individuals choose to have large amounts of children, it is balanced out by the many who have two, or one, or none at all.

Over and over again we see that if the system is balanced, fair, and ensures the health of its citizens, the citizens make choices that overall benefit society in return. The few who make different choices are a small enough number that they don't really have a terrible effect overall.

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 03:03 PM

19. It is also unrealistic to expect that overall women will choose to have many children.

Statistically speaking, it is almost universal that a strong social safety net coupled with good sex education and access to the full range of reproductive healthcare options results in a reduction in the birth rate--sometimes even below replacement levels!

The social burden of that one woman who chooses to have fifteen children and gets support for them from the state does not outweigh the overall trend towards fewer children, who as a whole have better outcomes in terms of health and achievement, and who go on to be productive, beneficial citizens, because their well-being is assured by society.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:11 AM

3. It's a woman's decision, period.

Women are moral agents and are perfectly capable of deciding whether to abort or not. Medical science and history tell us that where contraception and accurate sex education (starting young) are the best ways society can see a decline in unwanted pregnancy and abortion.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:54 AM

6. My point exactly.

 

Provide contraception and sex ed to teach kids how to use it. Fewer unwanted pregnancies equals fewer abortions.

Yes, it's a woman's decision, but it should be a decision, not something she is pressured into by circumstance.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:17 AM

4. Pregnancies are aborted for all kinds of other reasons ...

... and in some cases, women will feel they HAVE TO abort. What exactly would you have them do if they find out the fetus has some fatal anomaly? ... or if their own health is at risk? These may not be the case in the majority of abortions, but your statement is an overgeneralization.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:52 AM

5. What would I have them do?

 

That doesn't matter. It's their call.

Yes, some abortions are medically necessary. And women have the option of aborting malformed fetuses. This is as it should be.

What I'm talking about is reducing the "need" for elective abortions, so no healthy woman with a healthy embryo feels they have to abort. If they do abort, it's their decision. But I want for them to feel they have options.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:55 AM

8. What if they just want to?

That's ok too, right?

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Response to whttevrr (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:57 AM

9. Yes.

 

If it's their choice, it's their call.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:05 PM

10. Cool...

I am really tired of seeing women being told what to do. I do not have a uterus. So my thought is I will never make that decision. My only choice is to support the human with the uterus in whatever choice she makes for her body.

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Response to whttevrr (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:12 PM

11. Don't get me wrong. I am for a woman's right to choose

 

but I would like to see some of the causes of abortion addressed so there is less need.

And as for abortions due to fetal health issues? Better nutrition for young people and better and cheaper pre-natal care for expectant mothers can help with some of those issues.

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Response to whttevrr (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 02:17 PM

16. I don't know of any women who enjoy getting abortions and just want to get one

at least none of the ones I've spoken to about it...

"Hey, I'm going to get pregnant so I can get an abortion. I've always wanted to have one"

Not something you hear said a lot.

The same goes for the claim that some women use abortion as their primary form of birth control. I don't know any women who do that.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:17 PM

12. I have known of situations where the father pressures a woman to abort.

Some women agree to, some don't. The father should have every right to express his desires, but it is absolutely the woman's decision.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:40 PM

13. They call this the social safety net

It is is what civilized first world countries do. They provide healthcare and childcare so women have more choices when it comes to family planning. They provide free secondary education so you're not burdened with debt for the rest of your life. They have lots of programs for if you are struggling with unemployment or homelessness. They have worker protections and living wages. And they have elder care so you don't have to make the horrible decision between quitting your job to provide care your parent may need or dumping them in a home.

No, this is not a fairy tale. These places actually do exist. They try to make life better for every man, woman and child. Many of them are called "socialists". Maybe we can visit there some day!

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:44 PM

14. Should anyone ever feel they have to work?

Your argument is either that human lives should never be shaped by economic considerations (which would be lovely if possibl... but is not possible) or that abortion is a special category.

I do not consider abortion a special category.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 02:53 PM

17. I think people believe it's a more emotional decision than it really is. It's a medical procedure.

Period. Let it go. We're not sniveling creatures who are slaves to our emotions. We make decisisions every day of our lives. We don't fall to pieces over them.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 03:04 PM

20. +1

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 02:57 PM

18. I couldn't agree more.

Well said.

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