A PSA that targets rapists rather than victims.

[BainsBane]

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2013, 09:41 PM - Edit history (2)

Don't rape. That's all there is to it. Just don't. A simple message.

Courtesy of csziggy:

Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at FSU

Group that made this PSA:
Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at the Florida State University who seek to educate their peers concerning the importance of appropriate and responsible behavior.

The Mission of MARC is to raise awareness about the socialization of men and the cultural issues of sexism and gender violence. Through advocacy, education and training we are committed to creating a campus culture in which gender equality and respect prevail.

Members of MARC include undergraduate and graduate students of Florida State University who demonstrate strong leadership skills and who exhibit a sincere interest in addressing issues such as sexual assault on college campuses. If you are interested in becoming a member of MARC, simply fill out and submit the application form to MARC and meet with the director for an informal interview.

Campus Partners

Victim Advocate Program
Dean of Sudents Department
Division of Student Affairs

http://sga.fsu.edu/marc/

Let's have a hand for these great guys from FSU!

[hrmjustin]

1. K&R!

[BainsBane]

3. What? Where did I mention you?

[sarisataka]

11. This post

makes me miss being on the team

[BainsBane]

12. We only get 6-0 hides now

and those of members under 100. We miss you, but the new group is very efficient.

[sarisataka]

13. Thx...

I would like to say I am surprised that this wasn't a 6-0 hide but I have seen several things in the last few days that have left me wondering if I am on the wrong site...

Good luck on your mayor, hopefully they figure out who won before turkey day

[BainsBane]

14. It will be Hodges

She has a wide lead.

[NuclearDem]

5. It's alright, I suffer from a persecution complex too.

[BainsBane]

9. LOL

[Gravitycollapse]

8. Reality bites, doesn't it?

[Nine]

4. I don't like it.

The tone is too lighthearted for something so serious.

[Gravitycollapse]

6. Sometimes a subject is so absurd that the only way to present it is in its own absurdity.

There are millions of men in the United States who have committed rape. There are millions more who have used some form of coercion against a potential sexual partner. These are absurd numbers.

[BainsBane]

7. It's meant as a counter point to the PSAs directed at victims

their drinking, going out at night, etc. Rather than blaming the victim, it says don't rape. It's not really informative, but the message that rapists rather than victims are responsible is a good one.

[Bonobo]

16. Which means it is NOT a PSA aimed at preventing rape, but rather intended as commentary. nt

[seabeyond]

19. you do not like it, fine. a lot of us do. i think it is effective. that simple

you do not have to.

[Bonobo]

22. And that is fine too.

But you know, the people claiming I must be a rapist because I don't like it are really a bit over the top, no?

[seabeyond]

28. didnt hear anyone call you a rapist just as i am pretty damn sure there is not a feminist alive that

said men do not experience domestic violence.

[Bonobo]

30. Well here you go.

As for claims that some feminist said that men don't experience domestic violence, I never saw that either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125528987#post5

"Why would any person who wasn't a rapist object to that ad?" --So anyone that criticizes it is a rapist. The implication is 100% clear.

[seabeyond]

33. no. she did not call you a rapist. she said she does not know who would object but rapist.

you told her why you object. it is your reason. i do not agree. but that is why you object.

but no, she did not call you a rapist.

[Bonobo]

36. Well that's a relief.

But I think that rhetorical question ignores the fact that I wrote an OP about why I felt the false PSA was insulting, so the question did not really need to be asked. It was actually a statement (let's be honest) by BB that says "People who object to it must be rapists." Let's be honest.

[seabeyond]

39. except she is not reading your stuff. i am not reading your stuff.

i went into mens group tonight cause BB had that OP. saw the video. watched the video. liked the video. and stole the video. i did say thanks. that was it. i did not read your OP either. that is your business and i am really tired of the crap.

[Bonobo]

43. Well that explains it, I guess. nt

[NuclearDem]

32. The point of the ad is clearing up the concept of date rape for college students

A lot of men going into college have been taught by pop culture that drunk hookups and predatory behavior at parties are acceptable and just a part of college life.

The people who object to that message--calling rape what it is--are either people with a persecution complex or potential rapists who see their frat boy lifestyle under attack.

[Bonobo]

34. Rape is not done by accident.

A rapist is NOT going to take such a light-hearted "PSA" seriously, nor do I think the video is intended to have that effect.

I think BB got it right when she admitted that it is a critique of actual PSAs that warn women to not be vulnerable to rapists.

And I am actually a bit shocked that there are feminists that work AGAINST messages that seek to protect women.

It is ironic that one of the critiques of the rape PSAs that tell women to take care to lock doors, not walk at night alone, etc. is that they are obvious and condescending because they tell women what they already know. The obvious irony is that here we have a fake PSA that tells men "Don't rape" --and the ones that won't already won't and the ones that will, will anyway.

[seabeyond]

37. again. i disagree. here are my reasons i think this ad is effective. and this is just off top of

my head. bet with thought, i could come up with more.

too many of the boys raping dont define what they do as rape. they do it for the boys.

so it is important our boys tell their peers... dont rape. in a culture today that gets a thumb up in rape. i think we need to educate our boys. i have a couple. i certainly did. also, girls need to hear this from the boys. and finally, it will give further resolve for the boys that recognize rape to stand up to peers. for a couple different reasons, with a video of boys saying... dont rape reinforcing our boys to speak up and out.

win win win. in my opinion.

[Bonobo]

40. "too many of the boys raping dont define what they do as rape."

I agree completely.

And I think that the over-simplicity of this "PSA" does NOTHING to help.

There are many ways that important point could be driven home. This is not one of them.

[seabeyond]

44. i disagree. nt

[drmeow]

69. I agree with you

If it is going to work I think it needs to say something like "if [the part about a woman being drunk] and you have sex with her, you raped her - don't rape her." Too many people find ways to dismiss what they do as being rape. An effective PSA needs to say "THIS is rape - if you do it, you are a rapists - don't rape"

[NuclearDem]

38. When men don't know that alcohol impairs a woman's ability to consent.

They may not know it's rape because pop culture has taught them it's acceptable. That's the sinister part of rape culture--finding ways to make it acceptable.

The anger against articles about women protecting themselves is that it puts all the onus on the women to keep from getting raped--it's concern trolling that does absolutely nothing to stop men from raping. In fact, it further reinforces the idea that men are just going to rape and gives people more reason to blame the victim, this time for failing to protect herself.

[Bonobo]

41. And I agree with this too. nt

[NuclearDem]

42. Great! Glad we got that cleared up.

[Bonobo]

45. There are a lot of sick, sick people out there.

Scum of the earth type of people. Real "rape-culture" type of people.

I would like to see them pointed out and marginalized.

I don't see this fake PSA as helping to do that at all.

[seabeyond]

46. it is not a fake psa. it is addressing a lot in one short ad. it is addressing the one telling

girls how to avoid rape, but iti s also putting rape squarely where it belongs. on the rapist. and no, not all rapists are sick sick people, unfortunately. we want to see them that way because it comforts us. but a lot of rapists are regular ole joes conditioned in a rape culture that makes it hard for these boys to even know what they are doing is rape, though they know. but excuses are made ect.... there are so many many social angles why boys rape that could be easily addressed. this is merely one. we need a lot more

boys listen to their peers. not us. so it is important we hear from boys and men. and it is happening mroe and more. a lot more men are standing up and talking about the issue of porn, and what porn does to a mans brain. all good stuff. men talking to men. edcuating each other.

just as we women do with each other.

[seabeyond]

48. Shit Men Say to Men Who Say Shit to Women on the Street

men talking to men.

it is what you hear us women say over and over. men need to talk to men. cause a lot of men are not gonna listen to women. but, they will listen to their peers.

[Bonobo]

49. Anyone who knew me would never talk shit to women on the street in front of me.

A man who does do so in front of other men is probably first gauging how hie "friend" will receive it.

IOW, they say it only in front of men with similar proclivities.

As a result, I have never encountered men saying the kind of stuff you are talking about.

[seabeyond]

51. i think that is pretty accurate. that is what i notice. that if men speak out, almost always

that man will back down. he is not doing it for any other reason but to look good in his friends eyes.

that is why it is so important that men do what you do.

my husband says the same. he says, no one around him talks this shit. but it is cause all the people he hangs with would not allow.

that is why these psa with men talking are so so so important. it does a 100 times more good when a man talks... (and ya, there is a conditioned sexism out there and pisses me off, but reality)... than if women were to go on and on about it.

that is the importance of mans voice.

[Bonobo]

54. Thats right.

And THAT is why I think that the video you just posted is far better than the one I first referenced.

[NuclearDem]

50. Well, the thing about rape culture is that isn't sinister on its face.

The act of rape itself is just the end result or rape culture. Anything that feeds into the devaluing of women or reinforcing gender roles is part of rape culture. It's not just shady men waiting in a dark alley, it's a hack comedian's sexist joke. It's not just some guy at a party with roofies, it's the guy trolling the Internet and calling women ugly because they don't appeal to him.

It basically reinforces the ideas that: 1) Women exist for men's pleasure, 2) Men are required as men to get laid at every opportunity, and 3) Anyone who deviates from those two is a prude, a bitch, effeminate, gay, a slut, a manhater, a mangina, a cockblocker, a whore, or a loser.

Rape culture affects men just as much as women, and it creates a sense of entitlement among men (primarily, because that's how the gender roles are culturally defined) that they can take what they want when they want, and women are obliged to give it to them. The end product is women being raped as a man's conquest and men being raped by other men as punishment for not being a real man.

[seabeyond]

53. what an excellent post nuclear. so clear, concise and easy. thanks. nt

[Decaffeinated]

62. Is that the standard now? Any alcohol and consent can't be given?

[bettyellen]

20. Oh I totally think it is. While absurd on it's face it's actually also

very genuine in the way it drives home how many excuses are made for rapes.
I'd hope it could make some young people actually intervene and say "don't..." , if they see bad stuff go on.

[Bonobo]

25. Stopping others from raping is a GREAT message. I wish this did that explicitly.

It does not. It misses the opportunity to do so by trying to score points.

[bettyellen]

35. I think it does though, because while it says it's advice for wanna be rapists,

I think it's even more so an example of what the rapists friends ought to be saying. It could really get some people to take more notice and feel empowered in some situations. Too subtle you think?

[seabeyond]

10. at first i got that, but i think naturally that would be how they would have to respond, plus

in a way, it is showing the absurdity of some of the excuses used. so i hear what you are saying. i can get that.

i like it though.... as it continued on.

[niyad]

15. k and r--and I didn't even have to wait for the usual 3. . 2. . .1

[BainsBane]

17. I have the usual on ignore

I don't know anyone like them in real life, so I think it's best to spare myself here as well.

[UtahLib]

27. Smart choice

Leaves them talking to themselves in frustration which should be interesting to witness.

[Rebellious Republican]

18. How many of these posts are going around?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=156834

[BainsBane]

21. Oh, I thought it needed a wider audience

Than what one typically receives in a safe haven group. I didn't realize it was in V &M too.

[seabeyond]

23. well. let me tell you the story. lol.

ya. flooded tonight. one in mens group, too. lol. that is where we got them from. lol.

a mess.

happens sometimes.

[BainsBane]

26. I love your videos

You're clearly a man who likes women. It's nice to see. I'd seen that first one before. Can you believe some actually complained that video was offensive to men?

[Rebellious Republican]

29. You stumped me there, I did not know that about that.

I do not just like women, I have a great deal of respect for the the women in my life. Starting with my grandmother to my present day wife.

RR

[ck4829]

24. We should take rapist defenses/just world hypotheses to their logical conclusions

"I couldn't control myself because she wasn't wearing enough clothing/she didn't say no/she was intoxicated/etc."

Who would want a person like this as a doctor, an EMT, a dentist?

[seabeyond]

31. here is a problem. there was a dr arrested a while ago. had a camera in his pen. taking pictures

and putting them on the web

ya

who wants a doctor like that.

exactly.

a place of trust and i just had to hear this story.

[Paka]

47. Simple, but powerful! n/t

[Nye Bevan]

52. I hope every potential rapist watches this,

and as a result of watching it, never rapes anyone. It's certainly worth a try.

[BainsBane]

55. Definitely

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. i am not sure it's aim is to stop rapists as much as to stop well meaning people

from enabling rapists by pretending that women can somehow prevent their own rapes

[ismnotwasm]

56. Yup

[BainsBane]

57. "misandry"

[ismnotwasm]

58. Heh!

[LanternWaste]

61. I think at this point, the brain-dead would find a way be insulted by a simple safety warning at a p

I think at this point, the brain-dead would find a way be insulted by a simple safety warning at a public swimming pool, and rationalize that also as being offensive and oppressive to them.

[BainsBane]

78. So it seems

Now we learn this "misandrist" ad was sponsored by a men's group at FSU. Clearly those FSU men actually like women.

[steve2470]

59. excellent PSA, gets the point across with a bit of humor but still very very serious !!!! nt

[BainsBane]

60. I love the awesome guys that help make these PSAs

This one as well as the other about cat calling.

[bettyellen]

66. Steve, do you think it's possible that this sort of thing could make it easier for peers

to intervene by saying something? I actually do think this was the intent. The repetition makes it easier to use those words. Also easier to connect and feel confident saying, for instance.. No, just because she's passed out in your bed, it doesn't mean she "wants it" or it's not rape. I think we don't realize how much teens and young adults need to hear this. Some parents, who defend this crap, and blame the girls, need to hear it too.

[steve2470]

67. yes, I think it does make it easier. I like the way they used young guys nt

[bettyellen]

68. thanks, I thought it was a bit narrow and literal to take this as a PSA for rapists only

but was wondering if it was just me. I think it's a great message.

[bullwinkle428]

63. K&R. The irony of some of the responses where guys are getting

freaked out over something like this is that they're probably same kind of guys whining about how society is "too PC" these days, and that everyone needs to "start growing a thicker skin"!

[BainsBane]

86. Yeah

It is ironic. Ultimately it's about maintaining privilege. They call certain ideas and practices PC because it challenges their treatment of women and people of color. Then they call simple rape prevention ads "misandry" because it suggests rape isn't exclusively the fault of women. What they really hate is any criticism or challenge of their privilege. Some even wine that men don't have near exclusive province over the labor market anymore.

[gollygee]

64. I'm sometimes surprised by what is found to be controversial here

People saying "don't rape" is controversial? Huh?

[BainsBane]

65. Astounding, isn't it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. i squarely blame skinner for this, for legitimizing this men's right activism nonsense on du

the world is paved with people with good intentions but very harmful end results.

[kcr]

72. 1000 times this

And he was warned. But our concerns were dismissed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. exactly. which is why i feel no guilt blaming him.

[ismnotwasm]

74. Yup

[BainsBane]

82. It's extreme right-wing ideology

The gender equivalent of White Supremacy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

83. yes, it is.

[csziggy]

75. Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at FSU

Group that made this PSA:

Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at the Florida State University who seek to educate their peers concerning the importance of appropriate and responsible behavior.

The Mission of MARC is to raise awareness about the socialization of men and the cultural issues of sexism and gender violence. Through advocacy, education and training we are committed to creating a campus culture in which gender equality and respect prevail.

Members of MARC include undergraduate and graduate students of Florida State University who demonstrate strong leadership skills and who exhibit a sincere interest in addressing issues such as sexual assault on college campuses. If you are interested in becoming a member of MARC, simply fill out and submit the application form to MARC and meet with the director for an informal interview.

Campus Partners

Victim Advocate Program
Dean of Sudents Department
Division of Student Affairs

http://sga.fsu.edu/marc/

[BainsBane]

76. Interesting. So accusations that this ad is some sort of condemnation of all men

As made in the group where this PSA first appeared, are clearly false. The ad was made by men who actually like women and are concerned for their safety. Thanks so much for letting everyone know who produced the ad.

[csziggy]

77. The URL is at the end of the video

As a graduate of FSU I was curious. I'm proud that men at FSU are involved with this cause.

[BainsBane]

79. You should be proud. Those guys rock.

Do you mind if I copy your post onto the OP?

[csziggy]

80. No problem - it's off their web page

[BainsBane]

85. Done, thanks.

[seabeyond]

81. very admirable and would like to see it explode across the nation. nt

[BainsBane]

84. Men made this PSA

So much for the accusations of misandry.

Courtesy of csziggy:

Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at FSU

Group that made this PSA:
Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at the Florida State University who seek to educate their peers concerning the importance of appropriate and responsible behavior.

The Mission of MARC is to raise awareness about the socialization of men and the cultural issues of sexism and gender violence. Through advocacy, education and training we are committed to creating a campus culture in which gender equality and respect prevail.

Members of MARC include undergraduate and graduate students of Florida State University who demonstrate strong leadership skills and who exhibit a sincere interest in addressing issues such as sexual assault on college campuses. If you are interested in becoming a member of MARC, simply fill out and submit the application form to MARC and meet with the director for an informal interview.

Campus Partners

Victim Advocate Program
Dean of Sudents Department
Division of Student Affairs

http://sga.fsu.edu/marc/

Let's have a hand for these great guys from FSU.