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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe 'Southern' States of America
Yes, I know the eleven benighted states that comprised your Confederacy, but would suggest that some redefinition is in order.
For instance, can Virginia really be counted as a 'Southern' state anymore? And, then, of course, you have Florida, which gets less 'Southern' the further south you go!
On the other hand, states which were not part of the CSA have, in recent decades, transformed into what I would call, 'The New Old South.' To this list, I would assign West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, and even Arizona, with Indiana earning an 'honourable' mention as a geographically northern state.
I should like to hear how right (or, vastly more likely, wrong!) I am in this analysis. 
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johnd83
(593 posts)NY is "bright blue" which is split 55-45 (roughly) dem/gop, yet "bright red" states are often 45-55 or 40-60. They aren't at all homogenous. If you go to certain parts of NY you will think you are in the old south in terms of attitudes and behavior. The north/south red/blue divide is just more right wing crap used to divide us. By all accounts the most (one of the most?) successful ACA exchanges has been set up in Kentucky of all places so saying that they are all backwards states is very simplistic.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)and yes. You are correct!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)The rural areas of "northern states" are far more racist, bigoted, anti-government, and generally backward than urban areas in "southern states". IOW, its not a north-south issue, but rather an urban-rural issue.
Zeke L Brimstone
(89 posts)You are precisely right, HW.
Aristus
(72,178 posts)n/t
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Ive been to plenty of rural areas in northern states that are not "far more racist, bigoted, anti-government, and generally backward than urban areas in "southern states"". Ive lived in both rural NH & VT as well as Raleigh, NC and based on my experience, your statement couldnt be further from the truth. Hell, I know a guy from Atlanta who moved up here and flies the stars and bars in front of his business. 
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I've been there. Its far more racist and backward than any major southern city.
And who the hell do you think is electing Michelle Bachmann, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker and the rest of the GOP mouth-breathers from "northern" states? Hint: it sure ain't tolerant liberals.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Just that its not true in all instances. North vs. South, Urban vs. Rural, there are always exceptions to the "rule". I just think that its really hard to quantify what areas are what. Generally, I think all states are a mixture of levels of racism. Its everywhere to some degree.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)two US Senate seats, a stupid Teabagger Governor and 13/18 US House seats. W. PA is loaded with Teabaggers and intolerant, ignorant racists.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)to give better odds for red rural areas at the expense of blue cities.
At least, thats where Florida stands currently. All the major cities are blue, Dems outnumber Reps by almost a million registered voters statewide. Yet gerrymandering leaves us with mostly puke Representatives in state legislatures and Congress. Its starting to backfire, though. Cramming as many Dems possible into as few districts as possible has left many of the red districts barely red. They are now beginning to turn blue. I think Dems will gain a few more seats in '14, plus the Governor. Reps are worried, in spite of a dysfunctional State Dem Party.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)tsuki
(11,994 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)there are always exceptions to the rule. My point is that racism is everywhere. Not just "south". Not just "rural". Everywhere, to some degree.
madinmaryland
(65,729 posts)
KansDem
(28,498 posts)...during the last half of the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries.
Women's suffrage
Brown v. Board of Education
Workers' rights and labor unions
Underground Railroad
Don't know what happened...
Zeke L Brimstone
(89 posts)I honestly had not known that the Brown case occurred in Kansas. For some reason, I always believed Alabama to be the setting for that landmark court decision. Your correction is truly appreciated.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Evangelical supersized megacomplex churches
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)It is the new confederacy.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)While I hope you didn’t intend to do this, I find your suggestion to reclassify red states as “The New Old South” just another example of South bashing. It’s getting quite tiresome. I would imagine in all parts of this country, even California and New York, both bastions of liberalism, there are pockets of ‘red’ voters. Pockets of blue voters sent Terry McAuliffe to the VA governor’s mansion, despite the large number of red voters in VA.
It’s not as simple as everyone wants to make it… take all ‘red’ states, whether they are located in the Midwest or West and call them the “New Old South”, exactly what does that solve? Instead of bashing those of us who live in these areas and want to change things, help us. Stop belittling us… help us… those of you who can, come to Kentucky and volunteer for Senate candidate Alison Grimes, or send her money, or do that for any state you think is red. Help us… don’t call us names and try to categorize us. We deserve more respect.
nolabear
(43,850 posts)
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I'm just tired of this. I grew up in South Carolina, and the state I see today is not at all like it was then. It's much more hateful and spiteful and yes, racist than it was many years ago. Kentucky suffers because the mountain areas do not support a lot of industry and with coal mining on the wan, there are few jobs and little hope. But the issues we face are not any different than anywhere else, and it would be nice if people would try to help each other not bash each other.
nolabear
(43,850 posts)I think part of the issue is that the South did indeed create the defining moment that things are measured by, on all sides. America has nothing else unified to wave around, so the Southern imagery becomes iconic and used by every asshole with a prejudice or a grudge, so it becomes the only vision those who don't want to or bother to look further have.
Ignoring that it's regional and not only Southern (not denying any Southern culpability) lets a whole lot of terrible people get away with a whole lot of terrible things, while good ones suffer and feel disenfranchised.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)and I agree with you completely. It amuses me to think about the South's important role in the Revolutionary War and how the history of that war was eclipsed by the events of the Civil War. You are so right, the imagery of the south has become iconic. Like you, I do not deny the responsibility the region holds for the atrocities of the Civil War or those committed during the Civil Rights movement. There is no excuse.
Blue_Roses
(13,879 posts)and got stuck there. I was born and raised in Louisiana in the 60's and the state still seems oppressive in certain pockets. I'm ashamed to say, that as a white kid growing up in a white neighborhood, racial inequality was never discussed.
It wasn't until a young black doctor and his family moved into our neighborhood, and had their windows shot out, that I began to wonder wtf? Their two daughters were sleeping and the bullets barely missed them. They moved shortly after. I remember feeling so sorry for them and their kids, but most of all, I was angry that some mean son-of-a-bitch did this to such a precious family. I was 8 years-old.
But, the open dialog didn't happen. Sure people gossiped, but no one ever came out and took a stand showing how this was wrong.
My parents didn't teach me hate, in fact, quite the opposite and I never understood why all the hate.
As I got older, I began to search on my own for the history of my southern roots. (It wasn't taught in school at the time) It was a very somber experience to find out that this had gone on so long, yet I had been "shielded" from it. Why? What was the deal with standing up against it? It took the Civil Rights Movement to break through those barriers.
Martin Luther King Jr. said: He who passively accepts evil, without protesting it, is as much involved in it, as he who helps to perpetrate it.
I often wonder if in those early years, had the south stood up and condemned what was going on, what would it look like now.
I just finished reading, "Twelve Years a Slave," by Solomon Northrop and wow.I used to go the old highway to visit friends in New Orleans and I would often gaze out at the plantation homes, the sugar cane, and cotton fields, never realizing the atrocities that many experienced.
I'm proud of my southern heritage, because there is good and I feel that we have come a long way, but we still have a long way to go.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts).
WillyT
(72,631 posts)So now ND will become a Southern state ???
A NEW War of Northern Aggression, no?
Throd
(7,208 posts)Then again, I can show you places in California to confirm pretty much any stereotype.
Once you strip away the trappings of tribalism, humans are more similar than different. I'm wary of the purpose of branding the people in the next valley as "the others".