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[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. What's that got to do with trying to traumatize kids with gruesome posters?

[LittleBlue]

3. Are they traumatized?

Did you ask a child who saw the poster if he/she was traumatized? Honest question.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. An honest question would be whether a PETA person made an effort to do so.

Adults of at least normal intelligence are presumed to intend the natural consequences of their voluntary actions.

[LittleBlue]

11. Okay, but I'm trying to make the point

Why are more outraged about imaginary children traumatized (who have yet to be traumatized) when the truth is that our meats industry is a horror show of unimaginable cruelty? Seems like we should wait to see if children are actually traumatized by this, or whether they will find it enlightening about where their meat comes from. I think we're selling children short here, they can understand this and empathize with animals much better than adults.

And why should children, if they are not traumatized, be prevented from seeing posters like this?

[kcr]

13. Why should they be prevented? Because it wouldn't be effective for change.

What do you think is going to happen? The children will get upset. How will the parents, who have the purchasing power, react? They'll get mad at the people who upset their children. And then they'll comfort their children by explaining away what they just saw, and to ignore the nuts. How is that going to effect any change?

[LittleBlue]

14. Of course they're going to get upset

Because it's upsetting what happens to animals, not because PETA misleads them. This is the truth.

I can't predict how the parents will react, or whether it will lead to change, but I think we definitely need to wait for some evidence of traumatizing before assuming they can't handle it. There's a big difference between being upset about the state of things and being traumatized.

[kcr]

16. Wait for evidence of traumatizing?

Seriously? See, that's the problem. Being that out of touch.

[LittleBlue]

21. Or just making baseless assumptions

Kids see gore on the internet, on TV, on videogames, on a farm, going hunting, etc.

Yet it is assumed that this cartoonish poster will cause trauma. Ridiculous.

[kcr]

36. Baseless assumptions?

I'm sorry, but, delusional. Because some kids see some types of violence on TV on the internet, it's okay to thrust gore in random kids' faces against their will, and the justification is you don't know how it will affect them? Right, because kids won't necessarily be upset by images of slaughtered animals. That's just an assumption. Delusional.

[Electric Monk]

38. Helen Lovejoy?

[kcr]

41. Delusional n/t

[Electric Monk]

43. She sure was. Indeed. nt

[cui bono]

22. The ad campaign is misguided imo, but the OP is right that the outrage is misdirected and

disproportionate.

And then you get meat eaters gloating about eating meat, which translates into gloating about torturing animals. I'm sure everyone on DU knows about the horrors of factory farming, the torture of animals that goes on in them. Where is that outrage? In threads about that topic you get people coming in and posting how much they love to eat meat and can't wait to have a BBQ or steak that night.

And here on DU I'm sure everyone knows how much factory farming contributes to environmental problems. Where is that outrage? Again, in threads about that topic you get people coming in and posting how much they love to eat meat and can't wait to have a BBQ or steak that night.

Instead of people caring about animals' livelihood and the future of our planet they come into those threads just to gloat about how they are contributing to those things.

[LittleBlue]

34. +1

Superb

[kcr]

40. I happen to think that everyone who cares about issues like factory farming

should be outraged at PETA, quite frankly.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

69. I do not understand you.

Do you like that animals are being treated poorly?

We should all fight against wrong; we should be free to do it in the way we think best.

[kcr]

70. Fine. Do it in the way you think best.

I don't know why you think you should be free from criticism in how you do it, however. I happen to care deeply that animals are treated poorly. It's why I despise PETA.

[athena]

49. Totally agree about gloating meat eaters.

So many times, I've had people respond to my posts with gloating about how they eat meat, how they think they already know everything there is to know about the horrors of factory farming and still enjoy their meat, and how uninterested they are in what anyone else has to say. Such people only display their own cruelty and narrow-mindedness. I immediately put them on my ignore list, because they are clearly not here to have a discussion.

I'm not sure everyone here knows about factory farming. I was a member here for years before I learned about how horrible the situation is. We definitely need more threads about this issue, but they always get taken over by people who are not here to have a discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. I worked in a Kibutz, I know what goes on in factory farming.

It is horrific. That said, I also know humans are supposed to eat a certain amount of animal protein. The amounts though are much lower than the average american eats. A more logical campaign (which is also healthy) is to educate Americans as to how much less meat and other animal products they need for health. How much more vegies and other vegetable matter that they need (and they do not consume) they need to actually eat.

This campaign is wrong headed. It will backfire.

Now on a serious note, how graphic do you want me to get on factory egg laying factories? Or how much free range is not quite what people think? Or why we should change a lot of those practices due to superbugs? In fact, it is due to that industry that the end of antibiotics is even closer than it would be with just human abuse. Take my word on this, without antibiotics current factories are unsustainable.

[Electric Monk]

12. How many kids cried watching Bambi? And that's Disneyfied, cleaned up, a cartoon. nt

[Electric Monk]

7. Once you've seen Food Inc you'll (or most people, anyway) start to question

what you're putting in your mouth. How happy was your happy meal, or was it forced to be a cannibal in a cage where it couldn't even stand up?

It's available a number of places online. Here's one: http://documentaryaddict.com/Food+Inc-2174-documentary.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1286537/awards

[athena]

57. You know what's worse than gruesome posters?

It's people feeding their children chicken. If you don't understand why, I suggest you read up about how chickens are packaged. A good place to start is "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

68. Ah, someone who engaged in binary thinking. Post gruesome posters for kids OR feed them chicken.

Got it.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

82. What do you do to stop animal abuse?

Well?

[LanternWaste]

75. The same as traumatizing kids with video games and movies of an equal or greater content of violence

The same as traumatizing kids with video games and movies of an equal or greater content of violence, gore and shock...

It's part of the culture. I suppose some may think it's fine for one group of industries to exploit that content (and we call it entertainment for kids?), but let another organization come in and do precisely the same thing and we call it "traumatizing kids..."?

[kcr]

2. I think it's a shame PETA is so awful at raising awareness.

There's a joke that PETA is actually a front for those who perpetrate that cruelness. When they pull stunts like traumatizing children, it almost makes you wonder if that's a joke.

[cui bono]

23. "traumatizing children" is propaganda. It's not happening. There is no proog of it.

The pic in question is a cartoon!

[Electric Monk]

26. I've seen young children "traumatized" by Barney and Santa Claus. Some kids cry easy. nt

[kcr]

45. Well, that's the point.

THe whole idea that there's no evidence kids wouldn't be traumatized is, as I said in posts up thread, delusional. If kids will cry at Bambi, imagine their reaction at actual photos. So, probably not a good idea to thrust those images in their faces against their will. Parents certainly won't like it, either. If the idea is promoting a cause, how is this a good idea?

[kcr]

29. There's no proof that they've ever done this? n/t

[dionysus]

39. like the "environmentalist" in Promised Land

[LanternWaste]

79. seems to be the very definition of "raising awareness?

" I think it's a shame PETA is so awful at raising awareness..."

Odd... this is the third rather lengthy thread on it today. That seems to be the very definition of "raising awareness?

[kcr]

81. A thread on DU?

Well, if you're satisfied with that, okay

[narnian60]

4. Yes, PETA may not get it right 100% of the time,

(who or what does) but they have been groundbreaking on some issues in my book, & they made me into the animal protector I am today.

[scheming daemons]

5. telling them to change their techniques is not the same as shut up

[handmade34]

6. "Eating Animals" by

Jonathan Safran Foer is a great book that explains much of what goes on at factory farms… much recommended




also… PETA may be obnoxious in their methods but they are on the right side...

[narnian60]

9. +1000 for your last comment.

[kestrel91316]

33. Wow, imagine that.......milk isn't sterile and neither is meat.

I eat pretty much vegan these days, but this sort of hyperbole isn't what won me over.

[seveneyes]

10. Didn't see Mom carving a live turkey

Still can't find a PETA vegan cereal killer video showing the maimed and injured animals from harvesting grains.

[joeybee12]

15. Noramlly, I would agree with you, but PETA hates homeless cats...

I refuse to support them anymore.

[Arcanetrance]

20. Really I've never heard that. You've sparked my curiosity

[joeybee12]

24. It was in an article in USA Today...about ferals and homeless cats...

PETA is all for killing them instead of TNR or even adoption. Killing them, in thier view, is the humane way...It isn't, amd I don't even want to get in how doing that doesn't even do anything to decrease the feral/homeless population...I verified that this is their view with people who work at the clinic I volunteer with.

[Arcanetrance]

27. Wow that really angers me

More reasons to add to why I don't take PETA seriously. I donate to the Humane Society, The ASPCA, Defenders of Wildlife I'm really big on animal rights but PETA has always seemed full of shit to me.

[handmade34]

42. PETA has the right view...

The number of feral cats in the U.S. has been estimated at 60 million

this number of feral cats is unacceptable and until we have enough people willing and able to adopt them all,… we do need to euthanize them

[joeybee12]

44. You, like PETA are wrong, dead wrong...

Millions already are euthanized..tnr is the only method that appears to be making headway in getting the numbers down, murdering does not...take your misinformation elsewhere thank you.

[handmade34]

62. the numbers are real

it is not spreading misinformation, it is empirical information… my opinion is that the PETA stance is appropriate… your opinion is that it is not…

just one site for related facts

Does Trap-Neuter-Return work?

The short answer is no. Reduced rates of euthanasia at municipal or county animal shelters do not mean there are any fewer feral cats in a given area. Studies have shown that numbers of cats can increase during TNR.

Effective?…. No. The American Veterinary Medical Association has stated that "…the reduction in the total number of free-roaming cats these programs will effect is insignificant."

Good for public health?….. No. The National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians has stated that "There is no evidence that colony management programs will reduce diseases…"

Good for wildlife?…. No. The Wildlife Society has stated that, "Even if conservative estimates of prey taken are considered, the number of prey animals killed is immense. Feeding cats does not deter them from killing wildlife…"

Good for feral cats?…. No. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has stated, "Having witnessed firsthand the gruesome things that can happen to feral cats, we cannot in good conscience advocate trapping and releasing as a humane way to deal with overpopulation."


However, in fact there is little to no scientific support for the TNR method...

http://www.tnrrealitycheck.com/studies.asp

[joeybee12]

66. Thanks for more misinformation...

There is little to support or refute, because TNR is relatively new, but keeping showing your willful ignorance on the matter and I'll just ignore this shit. This is a shit site. Shit. Look who sponsors it, feather fetishtas like yourself...absolutely appalling crap you're posting.

[Arcanetrance]

52. See I fail to see how it would be more humane to euthanize them

I would think programs where we can capture spay/neuter than release stray cats would be the better way to go. As well as funding education programs specifically targeted to families that pets aren't toys to be given as gifts than discarded on a whim.

[joeybee12]

47. As you can see, a willifully misinformed person and PETA lover has

already tried to pass along more bad information.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

74. USA Today???

Love your reading material.

[JI7]

17. PETA cares more about getting attention for their shit than bringing awareness to these type of

issues.

[Sunlei]

18. Peta has done a lot of good for animals

anything they can do to help tilt the moral compass of our 'livestock industry' toward the better side I appreciate.

[Arcanetrance]

19. So I'm curious is most of the objection is to the factory farming aspect and how it treats animals

or Is it all meat eating in general. I ask because I have heard many different arguments on the subject. Personally I am against factory farming and how animals are treated and I don't eat meat from places like that. But I have plenty of friends back in New York who moved out to Pennsylvania who raised their own animals and hunted for their food as well as having met some people in Texas that do the same. In fact I buy the meat and egg I do eat from a friends of my fathers who has a farm outside Houston. But anyway that'd kind of off topic videos like this show mass corporate farming which like I said earlier I object to completely and wish more people would open their eyes to how terrible it is. But there are less cruel ways to get meat. Death is part of the natural order of life and the human race has been eating meat forever the key was respect with nature and a balance.

[kestrel91316]

30. PETA opposes the very existence of livestock and livestock farming.

They don't accept humane farming techniques. They want an end to ALL "animal exploitation" and that means even an end to beekeeping.

[Arcanetrance]

32. That doesn't seem to be something that would be attainable

[tabbycat31]

56. They also oppose pet ownership

[Arcanetrance]

60. I'm against it in one way for example I really believe people who adopt pets need to be vetted

better than they are. Families who adopt pets for example especially this time a year as a gift for the kid. Those pets should be checked up on cause to often you see someone gets their kid a pet and its great for awhile but than when the novelty is gone and the responsibility sets in they discard them.

[tabbycat31]

72. That is called responsible pet ownership

I've been involved with the local SPCA before and most shelters do have a vetting process for prospective pet owners.

PETA opposes all forms of pet ownership.

They also recommend that you feed your pets a vegan diet. Dogs can probably get away with it (they're omnivores) but cats are pure carnivores and need meat.

[Arcanetrance]

77. Yeah I guess I should say I'm against irresponsible pet ownership

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. And parrots need a certain ammount of meat

we know, we fed them what PETA might consider a good diet for years (due to ignorance). One almost died from malnutrition.

These days he is a happy omnivore who begs for meat. Yes, he also eats his fruits and veggies.

[Sunlei]

35. here is what Peta considers their victories & milestones from 1980 on their webpage.

http://www.peta.org/about/victories/milestones.aspx

[Arcanetrance]

46. I would consider stopping those things as victories

I just view some goals like everyone going completely vegan as something that's unattainable. I would think trying to intelligently raise awareness and education on the terrible things that occur in factory farms they would make more of an impact than trying to shock people. I'm not saying the things that occur aren't shocking.

[Big Blue Marble]

25. It is classic.

PETA is the messenger. When the message is uncomfortable, it is much easier to focus on
the messenger. PETA is brash and often outrageous, but they do stay in our focus.
Bad PR is good PR.

The emotions around the consumption of animals is close to that around gun ownership.
There is a sense of entitlement to both. God help you if you challenge that entitlement.
Step back and watch the rationalizations begin. Where animals are concerned, that
irrationality starts with attacks on PETA.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

50. Thank You.

It is hard to find thoughtful post in these threads.

[kestrel91316]

28. PETA hates veterinarians and wants my profession to cease to exist.

I don't need to know anything else about them.

[Humanist_Activist]

31. I truly hope that we find an economical way to mass produce lab grown meat...

and also make sure it has the same quality, texture and taste of natural grown meat, that way, no animals would be harmed in making the products, so that it would shut PETA up.

Also, I hope it will be less resource intensive as well, that would be a nice bonus.

[Earth_First]

37. Sorry. PETA lost me after the AKC/KKK campaign...

Go fuck yourselves.

[KittyWampus]

59. I didn't see that… it's abhorrent and I HATE the AKC.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

64. Lighten up a little.

You might want to go look for the baby. Seems you might have lost it when you toss the water.

[hobbit709]

48. PETA is a prime example of a B12 deficiency.

[BainsBane]

51. Did you read about PETA's cat slaughter?

[LittleBlue]

55. No, because even though

my title says "PETA", I wanted the thread to be about animals.

Obsessing over PETA is like obsessing over Snowden. The issue isn't PETA, it's what PETA opposes.

[KittyWampus]

58. So you're being a board nanny trying to tell DU'ers what they should talk about.

LOL!

[LittleBlue]

63. No

You can talk about whatever you want. Go ahead, I didn't put "only talk about animals" in the OP.

But I would prefer to talk about animals rather than PETA, in the same way that while Snowden is interesting, I'll focus my comments on the NSA.

[BainsBane]

61. So why did you put PETA in the title?

I think that communicates a message different from what you just expressed. I'm glad to see you passionate about a political/social cause.

[LittleBlue]

65. Because of the other thread

and the insanely disproportionate criticism they've taken for this campaign compared to the smaller focus on treatment of animals, which to me is an infinitely larger issue.

[BainsBane]

67. Ah, ok

I haven't seen that thread. I'll look for it.

[Decaffeinated]

53. Fuck PETA...

They could legitimately be doing something about those terrible things happening in those videos and instead waste their time and resources on bullshit and spewing nonsense like animal slavery.


Fuck em....

[SoLeftIAmRight]

78. One half of the people are below average. That is for all types of measurements.

Do you have a clue about the great things PETA have done?

[LanternWaste]

83. Much as we're doing...

"They could legitimately be doing something about those terrible things... and instead waste their time and resources... "

If doing A prevents doing B-X (implicit in your premise), then it seems much as we're doing by simply posting opinions on the internet.


(Insert distinction without a difference here)

[Hekate]

71. Add a Graphic Images warning to your post title, please

[LittleBlue]

76. Done!

I should have thought of that