Did the Feminist Movement Get Us Anywhere?

[leftyladyfrommo]

I was part of the 1960's feminist movement. We really believed that change was possible. We met in groups and marched on the streets. Gloria Steinem had nothing on us. It was different then because women really didn't have a lot of choices. You were supposed to go to school, get married, and have a family. You could be a nurse or a teacher of a secretary or hair dresser. Just about anything else was impossible. Because the men already in those fields made it impossible for women to get anywhere.

So now, 45 years later I listen to what Rush Limbaugh said to the young woman and I wonder if we got anywhere at all. It's the same old shit all over again. Still just as ugly after all these years.

[CTyankee]

1. It is discouraging. I'm older than you but I thought everything was going so well in the 70s.

Now I am fearful for my granddaughters.

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. I know.

I honestly have gotten to the point where I really don't trust any men very far. I certainly don't let men make decisions for me.

Seems like that undercurrent of hate is something all women should be aware of. Believe me, it's still there and alive and well.

[atreides1]

2. Yes and No

Gains made are being taken away because of both men and women, now!

[treestar]

3. Yes, definitely

There are more women in every profession. In law schools now women outnumber men. The idea of a woman working and having a career is firmly ingrained and the right wing knows that - this is why they are so desperate they try to drum up issues on this kind of crap - and they are far from banning birth control or even being successful at getting Obamacare to not cover it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

10. I'm afraid that all women really got

was a much heavier part of the load. Now they are expedted to be wives and mothers and wage earners. And they are expected to look hot for men while they do everything else.

It's discouraging.

One thing that I wish I had done when I was younger was to dress like I fucking wanted to - which was not hot - for my own comfort and enjoyment.

[Iggo]

5. If one word from one man can undo it all for you...

...then No, it didn't get you anywhere.

[wandy]

16. One word from one 'man' did not undo it all.......

For what it's worth all the pig-boy did was to get a whole lot of right thinking; correct thinking; people royaly pissed off.

[seabeyond]

21. and to reduce those three days to one man is dismissive. he felt he was allowed to do this. it took

a lot of years of just one man over and over and over, in so many areas of our society, and too many women, to let women be in this position. if we create an atmosphere of dehumanizing women, reducing them to a fuck, being disrespectful, then why wont it feed into the politics of how we perceive a gender. why wouldnt we be at a place where a law raping a woman by object without consent is an acceptable law.

we had to build up to a point where we created women in a manner, that they would not be viewed as a human, but a thing to control and dictate to.

that did not start with limbaughs three days of hate on one woman.

[wandy]

27. I did not by any means intend to trivialize this....

What Limbaugh did was to bring one; JUST ONE; aspect of injustice into the light of day.
The russleings have existed below the surface for a long time.
Why do you think clowns like santorumm believe they have control over a womans body?
These mummers of self righteous bull shit reach far and wide, LGBT, people of color, anyone not like them.
If nothing else, Rush has has opened many eyes.

[kestrel91316]

32. That "word" came on the heels of years and years of other words. It was the straw that

broke the proverbial camel's back.

You're a man, aren't you? You appear extremely clueless about the state of affairs for women even now.

[Iggo]

35. I could have expressed that better, and I apologize for that.

[aquart]

6. Yeah, we got somewhere.

No teacher can safely and confidently say "Very good for a girl" anymore.

Walking down the street or a hallway isn't a gauntlet of whistles and catcalls anymore.

No boss can try to give a temp sec to a client as a perk without there being a place to file charges anymore.

When the feminist movement began, THERE WAS NOWHERE TO COMPLAIN.

So stop wondering.

[Vincardog]

7. I believe your answer is included in the question: "It was different then because women really

didn't have a lot of choice".

If the Feminist Movement made no difference where did the new choice come from?

Limbaugh is a blow hard drop out and probably a pedophile.
He a drug addict.
His vile talking point has you questioning the women's movement?

Sister PLEASE

[CTyankee]

13. Women can and have historically had their rights stripped from them.

German women during the Weimar Republic had abortion rights. HItler ended them. Ceacescu removed reproductive rights from Rumanian women until he was taken down (and then thru violence).

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

[Vincardog]

14. AS have everyone that could not fight back. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

[Demeter]

8. Social change is like waves on the shore

advancing, retreating...depending on the greater support of the culture and each generation.

But feminism progresses the human condition, never fear. It ain't going away, either. The knowledge, the expectations, the energy, continues.

The losers like Limbaugh don't like the change, but they are outnumbered. And many of the younger men (born in the 70's and beyond) have seen that they benefit from feminism, or at least, they have no chance of bringing back the patriarchy which the older men thought was their birthright.

[seabeyond]

9. we cant be got with kitchen and barefoot. that ship sailed and never be able to get us there again.

so, for over the last decade women are reduced to a fuck (milf, do it, hit it) and a woman is no longer a human being but a fuck. no more or less. and as a society, we seem to be embracing this. one way or another it is taking power away from women for men to control. this is no different. it is al about and always has been to ensure woman is less than man. cant do it with not as smart or capable as, so they do it with sex.

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. That's what I'm beginning to thing, too.

And the bad part is that women fell for that. We may be in a worse place than we were before. At least in the past women were mothers and a fuck. Nowit's down to just a fuck.

That is so depressing.

[seabeyond]

20. yup. and it is in your face obvious as we pretend it is not a reality

there is no way limbaugh would have thought this talk was acceptable a decade ago. today he felt comfortable spewing the garbage. year after year we have allowed this vulgarity and disrespect to women with comments like, he is a comedian, an entertainer, boys will be boy, a man, biological, what they do. pearl clutcher! freedom of speech! prude!

and now, we have a man, that will speak to tens of thousands, feeling it is ok to call a woman a slut, prostitute, too much sex to walk, make a video of sex so we can watch.

that is what women are reduced to

that is what men reduce themselves to

[ZombieHorde]

11. The ugly is just as ugly, but the good is more prevalent because of the 2nd-wave feminists.

The second-wave feminists gave us legal protections from sexual harassment. Roe v Wade happened during the second wave. The civil rights act of 1964. Friedan's The Feminine Mystique helped to open the eyes of the US to the plight of the housewife.

Those are some major accomplishments in my opinion, but there is obviously much more work to be done.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. If you have the money to fight.

Most of us don't.

I guess what I'm more concerned with is the soul of the culture. That the culture itself values women. I still don't see that happening.

[ZombieHorde]

46. You have good points, but I think you and your allies acomplished a lot for my daughter,

and I will always appreciate your efforts and victories. My daughter will have more opportunities than she would have had if she was born before second wave feminism. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[MoonRiver]

12. Yes of course.

But we all have to be vigilant. Republicans are not just waging war on women, they are trying to resurrect Jim Crow and eliminate union bargaining powers, among other outrages.

[KansDem]

17. My boss is a woman...

...and African-American, too.

Does that count?

[bigwillq]

18. Yes

But there's still work to be done.

[vi5]

22. What we're seeing/hearing now is not a failure of feminism...

It's the natural and logical progression of putting too much faith in the Democratic party, who have shown time and again that their desire to maintain power and to win over a segment of religious voters who they will never win over no matter what they do, trumps women's rights. They have been too quick to assume "Oh, we won't go backwards, we won this battle already so no sense devoting too much time to worrying about it.". Too quick to throw women's rights and reproductive rights under the bus.

I suppose it's a failure of feminism in that women and feminists assumed that the Democratic party would help them out and keep them safe, and have been too willing like so many of us in so many other Democratic groups to say "Well the other side will be so much worse so we have no choice but to continue to put all our faith in the Democratic party."

[EFerrari]

23. Rush can't be used as a measure of anything that is real

although it is true that the radical right wants to move us all back fifty years.

[LanternWaste]

24. Three steps forward, two steps back...

Three steps forward, two steps back.

The struggle for equality has improved things by a matter of degrees over the years, but I think that the struggle needs to continue until objective equality has been reached en toto.

[dixiegrrrrl]

25. Yes, it got us somewhere.

Even for the brainless blonde jaw waggers on FOX, who would not have been in front of a camera before 1980.
( all the more ironic that they are carrying water for the enemy, eh?)

My two sons grew up to have respect for women, despite their Neanderthal father
who I divorced in 1970 as a result of better options available because of the Movement.
They have cited me as their role model for women they are attracted to.
Not bad at all, I say.

My dr. is a woman, fat chance of me finding her in 1970.

I had a marvelous college education and a career these last few decades which was a direct result of the Woman's movement.
The Movement also produced many feminist supporting men, who grew up to be wonderful partners.

The thing is, no one who escapes bondage ever goes back to it.
That is why there is such strong pushback against the Regressives.

[TorchTheWitch]

55. geez, talk about carrying the water of the enemy!

Even for the brainless blonde jaw waggers on FOX, who would not have been in front of a camera before 1980.
( all the more ironic that they are carrying water for the enemy, eh?).

There's only one reason you believe these women are brainless, and blonde (whether they are or not, and contributing to the "dumb blonde" misogynist stereotype)... because they are women and attractive. PERIOD. THAT is carrying the enemy's water and what women have been guilty of for centuries upon centuries in helping keep women reduced as stupid objects unworthy of equality with men. Why are women not embracing these "brainless blonde jaw waggers" for managing to break through the all male barrior though they have NO CHOICE but to be attractive and ACT stupid because that's the ONLY way that the MALE CONTROLLED business will accept women?

Do you know which gender is far more likely to chastise a woman for who she is or what she does or what she wears or how she acts or what she says and with misogynist words like bitch, slut, whore, c*nt, and all the rest? WOMEN.

Centuries upon centuries ago patriarchy had to enlist the help of WOMEN to keep it going, and THAT is why it still works especially since only very very recently in our history it's women that raise and indoctrinate future women.

[Taverner]

26. Which one? Get who anywhere? Define "anywhere."

Second Wave feminism gave us more women in the workplace, but very few in leadership positions. Those who did get to leadership positions had to outplay the men 10x to get there.

Third Wave feminism gave us what we are seeing in colleges today, however. Women excelling in math and the sciences. That was because the third wave took place mainly in the universities.

There will always be big, fat, cigar-chomping chauvinist pigs. Just like there will always be racists, homophobes and serial killers.

But the difference is today, when a big fat cigar-chomping racist, chauvinist pig says something patently sexist, they get called on it a little more than they did in the 1950s.

[CBHagman]

52. Sig line-worthy

I mean, of course, this:

There will always be big, fat, cigar-chomping chauvinist pigs. Just like there will always be racists, homophobes and serial killers.

[Skidmore]

28. It got us a huge step forward.

However, it was derailed. I remember a point at which women were told they could have it all and not if they worked as contributing, educated members of society, but if they were avid consumers. Yep, hawtness became the object of pursuit. You were successful if you could come out the winner of a catfight. You were successful only if you had the latest gadget and the biggest McMansion and wore shoes with red soles and heels so high you could get a nosebleed just standing up. Women stopped speaking out as a large group and started buying the marketing of divahood and golddigger. Even those roles marketed in the media as strong and independent women are peopled by divas and catfighters. There is a difference between moving forward and this BS that passes for success today. All flash and no substance. And we must shoulder our share of the blame too because it takes a willingness to allow this to take place too.

[seabeyond]

30. +1. nt

[jillan]

29. Yes - and I am in your age group. The right wing is just wackier right now and if anything

this will make us stronger, even more committed.

Sometimes it takes the risk of losing everything to remind you what you have.
Women will never go back there. No Way!!!

[kestrel91316]

31. Well I wouldn't have had a prayer of becoming a veterinarian if not for the entire

civil rights movement, including women's rights.

But yeah, the slut-shaming and namecalling and hate speech and attack on basic freedoms is really something to behold - it's like we are in the 1800's again, the way RW men are attacking the little ladies who dare to express themselves and want more than kinder-kuche-kirche.

[Tikki]

33. One thing I can think of off the the top...

...is that men no longer Babysit their own children when mom needs to
go somewhere without them.

Tikki

[nolabear]

34. We have to keep fighting.

I hate to say it but people will put other people down, especially when in the throes of their own self doubt. We have to refuse to be put down.

[Spike89]

36. Major social change is not a binary operation

Even when the core concept is widely agreed upon, change on massive social, behavioral, and emotional levels simple doesn't happen that way. As a man, I understand that many of my expectations, emotions, and attitudes toward my role in life and how I view women and their roles isn't always in synch with what I know and believe intellectually.
For example, although most of my male friends are firmly liberal, I have no doubt that the majority of those men would have complicated feelings about having their wives/girlfriends/etc. make more than them. Ironically, I believe an even higher percentage of their female partners would share those complicated feelings. It isn't an intellectual thing and all of us would undoubtedly say it isn't a big deal, but it IS a deal, even among a random group of progressives in a pretty progressive area. The role of "provider" is something many women still expect a man to assume and most men still feel more comfortable in that role. It is what all of us have grown up with as the societial norm.
So, the answer to the question is a resounding yes! It got us further down the road where the stereotypes and gender roles are not as stark. We are not at the end of the road by any means, but change has occurred and will continue. It is a process. We made progress because some strong women and men fought and railed against the injustices. Just because we can understand that the change doesn't happen with a flick of a switch doesn't mean the fight isn't worth fighting.

[Honeycombe8]

37. Yes, it did. But forever and ever, there will be attempts to go back in time...

whether it's against women or other minorities. Vigilance is required.

Look at the Taliban. When they took over Afghanistan, they removed all of the few rights that women in the country legally had.

But yes, the feminist movement produced change. Most notably, lots and lots of women in the workforce getting decent (but not great) wages. Before, it was nigh impossible for massive numbers of women to get hired doing anything, much less getting paid a decent wage.

[just1voice]

38. Our society has traded corruption for civility

The only thing that's changed is society is much more accepting of greed-driven crime. Scumbuckets like Gush are happily accepted by anyone if it means they can make money off of it, just like torture camps, fake wars, criminal bank speculation on oil and everything else.

We are quickly erasing all gains made in equal rights and human rights.

[LiberalEsto]

39. In 1969, I could not get a job as a mail carrier or a school bus driver

because I was female.

I was turned down for a job delivering prescriptions for a pharmacy, ostensibly because the job involved heavy lifting. When I asked how that could be, I was told it meant moving big containers of pool chemicals. "Heavy lifting" was code for "You can't have this job because you are female".

I was the first woman to drive an ice cream truck in central New Jersey because I persuaded the company owner to give me a chance.

I raised hell at one job in 1976, because even though I was a college graduate and had been there longer, I learned that the male reporters at the newspaper were paid $175 a week, while the women got $150 a week. The editors bleated that men needed more money because they had to support families. I pointed out that all the reporters in the newsroom were single and that my rent cost just as much as theirs. They set up a salary guide where women and men were paid the same for the same number of years on the job.

Yes, I think things have changed considerably since the late 1960s.

[jwirr]

40. Sure it did or they would not have anything to try to take away from us. What we did not accomplish

was getting rid of the bigotry.

[KamaAina]

41. "Did"? Is it over?

As LisaM says in her sig line, "I'll be post-feminist in the post-patriarchy."

[RainDog]

42. Women walking away from patriarchal religions and into the workplace

and into the voting booth and into political office has changed things for the better.

All change to treat others as fully human is met with struggle by those who, honestly, are afraid of change and want to have advantages in society that they want to deny to others.

It takes a long time for people to get beyond long-standing hatreds, sometimes.

Don't raise your daughters to accept religious views of them as second-class humans or the source of all human problems and you go a long way toward changing attitudes for generations to come.

Raise your daughters to question authority, no matter who says something - even you.

[s-cubed]

43. Yes, but we didn't understand completely.

We thought we would be able to win the first skirmishes and that would be that. But, we need to understand how very radical our movement was, and how threatening.

This article,"Why Patriarvhal MenAr_ e Utterly Terrified of Birth Control - And Why We'll Srill
Be Fighting About it 100 Years From Now
gives that historical perspective and why the war is not over:

http://www.alternet.org/visions/154144/?page=entire

[XemaSab]

44. What we're seeing a lot of now is a backlash against second wave feminism

I think we've done a lot, and I don't think many of the things we've fought for are going away.

[loyalsister]

49. Even moreso toward 3rd wave feminism

3rd wave feminism has not been organized but has taken different turn. Since the 2nd wave some cultural changes and an array of legal changes are still targets of outrage...
Sexualized music, mannerisms, and dress in the context of entertainment (credit to Madonna), by a woman became acceptable within the mainstream. The clothing was adopted as trends and style.
Domestic violence finally became unacceptable at an absolute level.
The act rape has been legally technically and culturally refined to reflect the reality of sexual coercion.
Child support enforcement became a reality.

Over the course of the 80s and 90s, the reality of male behavior became a little less permissive.

Women have more sexual freedom because of more and more BC options.

The easiest thing to attack is potential sexual behavior.
Fundamentalists can attack in church, there are many men who respond because of their perceived lack of freedom when it comes to women, and garden variety misogyny that still exists.

I think the 3rd wave may not be finished, but we still may have to have a 4th wave eventually.

[lunatica]

45. If you measure our success by what Rush Limbaugh says

The entire movement is a failure. Or, conversely if you measure our success by what Limbaugh says, then we've been a raging success!

No matter what he says, we're good to go.

The reason he hates us so radically is because he can't control us. That makes us a success.

[arely staircase]

47. the feminist movement got us a lot

my mother's workplace was much different than mine. for her mother working outside of the home was out of the question.

[shcrane71]

48. You made a HUGE difference. I never thanked older feminist enough when I was a young.

Please realize, that I and my peers wouldn't be where we are today without the sacrifices of those who came before us.

When I was younger, there were instances where older women seemed incredulous with the presence of younger people. Many instances, I overheard how ungrateful my peers and I were. Like many of my age group then, we weren't the best at reading social queues. Although I was well aware of the opportunities provided to me that the previous generation didn't have, I was clueless, and I lacked the social graces. It's no excuse, but please allow me to extend my gratitude for your work.

The glass ceiling, sexism, harassment, misogyny were still a part of my and my friends lives when I was in my late teens, 20s, 30s. I definitely recognize that now the next generation of women are dealing with the same bullshit. I feel like I failed the women who are 20 years younger than me. But then I'm reminded that women are graduating at higher rates than men in college, and this is even in medical schools. Optimistically, it simply seems to be a slow, slow process undoing centuries of subjugation.

[Johonny]

50. big difference between trying to taking away rights

and trying to get the rights in the first place. There will always be blow hard males like Rush, but 45 years ago he'd be telling off a housewife instead of a young women in law school. Women account for like 25% of the GDP. Rush could not even sit on his big fat millions without you.

[SugarShack]

51. Go to the ERA thread here on DU

They put out a press release today, very important.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002402398

[marlakay]

53. It did back then when republicans were mostly moderate

and not socially crazy!!

I saw this actually happening as everyone seemed to sleep while the republicans got more and more religious over the last ten years.

It should have been nipped in the bud and its our fault in a way we let it get this far…

[seabeyond]

54. agreed. i am think more a decade and half. nt