Wow...great segment with Mellissa Harris Perry this morning. Older workers.

[Atman]

"Older workers" being turned down for work. I'm there! I've freelanced most of my life, and doing okay today (even working contract labor for my previous employer), but try getting a call-back for a job application at my age! At 54, no one wants to talk to me. I don't NEED full-time work, as I do okay freelancing. I don't need benefits, I don't need a 401k, I just want to DO SOMETHING. But as MHP is pointing out, most employers think I want the same salary I made at my last job (ad agency AD -- no one is going to pay me what I made at that job). I even applied for a job at Michael's...retail work in the art/framing department. Nope. I wouldn't be happy there, they tell me. I'm not looking for six figures, I just want to work. But no...I guess unless I want to stand around in Home Depot and tell customers "I don't know...ask that guy!" I don't have much chance of any full-time employment. Good thing I can work for myself. I don't know how other people do it. I seriously don't.

[dembotoz]

1. me 2

[liberalmike27]

14. This is Why

I think Democrats should be pulling, not to cut SS or raise the retirement age, but suggesting we lower it to 55. It seems like so many are "put out to pasture" and can't work until the end, usually from their early 50's.

Call me long, long, long term unemployed.

[cilla4progress]

2. Me 3...

I over-priced myself and now I'm out of work! Willing to work for less...just want something where I can be creative, and that isn't mind-numbing, and I can use my skills.

I guess that's too much to ask in our current economy. At 58, maybe I'm supposed to retire?

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. You survive by cobbling together stuff you can do for money.

I make ends meet by pet sitting. Hopefully, I will be able to continue to do that for several more years.

Some people do home repairs - like a Honey Do company. Or start up lawn mowing companies. Home painting. Putting up Xmas lights.

It's hard. No one wants older workers now. We are just out there all on our own.

So much accumulated knowledge and it's just all going to waste.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Volunteering is a good networking opportunity.

Are any local nonprofits looking for board members?

[Bennyboy]

5. me nine

Spent five years trying, but only got a couple of interviews and then the guy tells me to my face that I am too old. Then he tells me why it is not discrimination. Workers over fifty file 70% of comp and disability claims. They take more time off work for parental care. They are not healthy and cost more to insure.

He asked me "Would you hire you?" and I had to agree with him.

In my case, because I have owned businesses or been a general manager of businesses in the past, they also assume I want their job.

So I became a care giver. First with my parents and now with an old friend. I don't make squat but I do what I want mostly with my hours at about 2 1/2 a day.......I am getting another client soon and have other things going on as well.....

[Atman]

7. That was my case...

I had to use all my sick time, vacation time and the company gave me some comp time, for a major foot surgery. My right foot...so I couldn't drive, couldn't walk. Meanwhile, the rest of the company were mainly 20-30 somethings, who only called in sick for hangover time. I had to take off six weeks after my surgery. When I returned, they "let me go," because work was slow. Anyplace I call now assumes I will either be sick (I was never "sick," I'm in excellent health), or I want $100,000 to start. Ageism. As I stated before, at least I can freelance. My wife is now covering the health insurance (exact same policy my company gave me). I don't need any benefits. But no one wants to talk to an old dude. Meanwhile, just working full-time would be nice.

[Bennyboy]

6. Over fifty and out of work (Facbook page)

talking about this very thing right here....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Over-Fifty-and-Out-of-Work/122824164434815

[winter is coming]

35. +1. A lot of people in that boat just now. Ten years ago, they were sought after.

Now, they're untouchables.

[MANative]

8. Add me to the list.

I'm 53, and unfortunately, an expert in an area that is undervalued, under-appreciated, and undoubtedly needed in business. I work primarily in learning and development, and there are very few companies that spend money in this discipline any more. Executive Training programs have disappeared and the only base training that happens these days is in legally mandated topics such as the yearly Sexual Harassment Kabuki. The few ETD execs still in corporations hang on to their jobs with a death grip. However, you hear on a weekly basis about CEOs bemoaning the lack of qualified and skilled workers. The reason, dipshits, is that you've stopped training them! Schools today teach to the test, not to building, and have never taught leadership and management skills. Don't even get me started about "MBA" programs that aren't even worth the single sheet of paper on which the degree is printed.

[kimbutgar]

9. I'm 57 and my contract job ends at the end of the year

It was PT. I've been sending out resumes and getting no responses. It is depressing to say the least. I can't even apply for unemployment. It is tough out there and I don't need a lot of money.

[Nay]

10. My brother was out of work for over a year at age 61. He couldn't get

even an interview, although he has plenty of mechanical skills.

Then, he finally got a very good contract job in exactly the area he wanted. The company is floundering a bit and workers kept leaving, so it was so 'desperate' that it was hiring unemployed people like my brother who also had enough experience to do the job.

Guess what? Even though he is 61, he is now getting calls from headhunters from those other companies who wouldn't even interview him before!! Why?

BECAUSE NOW HE HAS A JOB AND IS SEEN AS A 'WORTHY' EMPLOYEE. It's so strange you almost have to laugh. It's horrible for people who can't hang on to a job in their field, because it seems that you must already have a job to be hired somewhere else.

As a side note: an old acquaintance of mine became unemployed and now works for herself, under the table, as a companion to old folks in their homes. She likes it (it's not for everybody, that's for sure), it keeps a roof over her head and food on the table. Since she is a very likeable person and takes good care of her folks, she will never be out of work.

[abelenkpe]

11. It's not much better for those in their forties suddenly out of work either

Company I worked for for 13 years went out of business last year and many have not found work yet. Those who have have taken positions out of the country, or are freelancing. In almost every case it's a situation where they are making less than before and more time away from family. But hey, the economy is improving right?
If you had a good paying job with good benefits employers tend to not want to talk to you if they know what they are going to offer is less than what you had before which is part of why older workers get shut out. Plus the healthcare nonsense. Employers worry that older workers or workers with family will end up costing them more in money and time. It's a mess for sure and a waste of human potential. Instead of valuing older workers for their experience businesses see them as a liability. It should not be this way.
I have a friend who is 51 and unable to find work despite 25 years experience, numerous awards, an amazing portfolio. At lunch recently she said this time last year she was worried about being able to afford to retire. Six months ago she was worried about finding a job. Now she's given up, about to lose her unemployment, and her apartment. She's thinking of moving in with her elderly parents so they can pool their resources and scrimp by. She's not alone. She's just not counted anymore.

[LibGranny]

12. Me 4

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. I know someone who got an employer to hire him by claiming the wife ran up the credit cards...

That appealed to the woman hating asshole doing the hiring.

[HockeyMom]

15. 62 is the median age where I live

Of course, it's in Florida. Not hire over 40's? I think employers would have a big problem finding enough younger people. Same for doctor's deciding not to take Medicare. That would probably force them to close their practice here.

I do hear what you are saying. The only reason we ever moved to Florida was because my then 58 year old husband was out of work and couldn't find a job in NY. I must say, though, being the same age as him, I never had a problem, but I didn't work in the business world. I worked with special needs kids (public schools) and developmentally disabled adults (non-profits).

[Atman]

18. I grew up in Florida...

I will be meeting with the mayor and the new city Marketing Director when I go home for Thanksgiving. I hope to be doing contract work for them, promoting tourism to my old home town. It's odd, as I can bring in both perspectives; I'm both a tourist (living in New England) and a local (having grown up there). I spend lots of time there, and owned two businesses there, so they give me some cred. And property is dirt cheap compared to Connecticut. If it all works out, maybe time to open up a little gallery...dream on.

[NewJeffCT]

16. I'm almost 47 and I get a lot of "you're too experienced for this role"

even though the listed salary range is about what I'm currently making.

Even though they don't say it, I know it's really "you're too old"

[Atman]

19. I get that all the time...

"You won't be happy here."

BULLSHIT! I'll be be happy on Thursday when I get a paycheck. Try me!

[SheilaT]

17. I'm 65. When I moved to my present location at age 60

I was newly divorced, had been mostly out of the workforce for nearly thirty years and now needed to find a job.

I didn't have that much trouble. Weird, huh? If I believe everything I read here I'd believe I am the only person in this entire country to find a new job at such an advanced age.

Yes, it does make a difference what field you're in. For me, I was looking for entry-level work for which I had the basic office/computer skills. It wasn't that hard. I got interviews, almost always made it to the second interview, and if I found out why I was turned down it was because the other person had a skill set I didn't have, or they went with an employment agency that was offering a worker for significantly less money than I'd been told the job would pay.

If I were merely in my 50's and my field had dried up, I'd be back in a community college or some sort of vo-tech program getting new skills.

Here's another thing that worked for me: I never put down dates for my previous employment, since most of them were decades ago. I just put down the length of time at the job and what tasks I performed. I've also never put down a salary requirement, and the rare times I was actually asked, I'd done my best to learn what they'd be offering and kept my number within their parameters.

Never once was I treated in an interview as if I were too old. I don't even bother to dye my hair, so anyone would immediately guess my approximate age.

It really is possible to get a job at when over 40 that is not fast food or WalMart greeter.

[Atman]

20. I have substantial experience in my field.

I've never done anything else. I'm not going to vo-tech. I'm not looking for entry-level work, but I'm not expecting to be a boss, either. i'm not concerned about taking a big cut in salary, as a steady paycheck is just fine. I just want to work and use my skills. Thanks for your "merely in my 50's/community college" rec. Nice, but not helpful.

[SheilaT]

21. Is there any point at which you'll consider

retraining? It seems to me that the practical thing at some point is to do that.

What's not helping you is to keep on applying and applying and applying and never getting so much as a job interview. Doing something over and over again expecting a different result the next time is for some the definition of stupidity.

There are many jobs that have disappeared over the years for lots of reasons. People in those fields eventually need to understand that their old job is never going to come back.

The fact that you've never done anything else and have extensive experience is admirable, but if employers don't seem to care, then you should find another field.

[thecrow]

27. Well, your advice is good and it's great that you found employment

but for most of us that hasn't been the norm.
I'm going to be 64 soon and I've been out of work since December 2008.

My job was very specialized, and I've worked in that field since my 20's.
I live in a town where there are no jobs in my field... none.
What sense does it make for me to go back to school and train in a different field at 64?
I'd graduate at 68 and my competition for jobs in my new field would be the 20 year olds just out of college who would not have degenerative disc disease or arthritis. And, I'd be looking at paying student loans. Forget it!
I've sold off most of my investments and my partner was able to get a job, so we are the fortunate ones, and he is my saving grace. I found a job that I could do a couple weeks ago, but it involved commuting for two hours a day. My partner said I should stop looking and just be the homebody, which I have never been, so I'm adjusting to it. The depression is awful but I'm trying to find something to do around the house each day, even if it's small, to bring value to our existence.
In two years I can "retire". Whoop de do.
My heart goes out to all of you who are caught up in this ageism gap. It is real and extremely frustrating.

[Atman]

29. BOOM.

Pretty much sums it up.

[SheilaT]

30. Notice that I was suggesting those at least a decade

younger than us do the retraining.

Plus, I'm not talking a four year degree. I'm talking the kind of thing you get at a junior college in two years or less. As I tell far younger people than us, much of the time a two year degree or certificate is far more useful than a four year degree in a field that has few or no jobs.

I'd ask how you wound up in a town with no jobs in your field, but those things happen.

If you're not going to be working, it may be in your best interest to start collecting social security now, but you're the one to do the financial calculations on that.

[Atman]

28. No.

As I stated, I do okay freelancing. I've been in this career field for nearly 40 years. I'm not going to vo-tech and become a CNC machinist when I can get work in my field with a 40-year constant career path. Why do you think I'll do better in another field with no experience? Again, I'm not "unemployed," although that is what many seem to think of freelancing. I am working, doing fine. But the nature of the beast is that it is sporadic. I can work for a month, make some cake, then do nothing for a month. I only went full-time because we were putting a kid through college and the steady income was a big help. As a freelancer, there is rarely a "steady income." A lot of people don't understand this. I recall a conversation with my BIL many years ago. He asked "Are you still freelancing, or do you have a job yet?" Being a freelance contractor is much harder work than any of you will ever realize.

[SheilaT]

31. It sounds as if you are perfectly fine with your freelance situation.

It's those who are butting their heads against walls trying to get jobs that just aren't going to happen that I'm addressing my comments to.

[Atman]

32. I'm in both boats.

I would like to have a steady paycheck. I have a strong track record, many awards in my field, a good portfolio...but it would be nice to go to a steady job. Fortunately I have the option of freelancing...people actually hire me and pay me!

One of my high school friends claimed to be a "graphic artist," but between you and me and the wall (I know she doesn't read DU), she never had the chops. She designed a couple of pizza shop menus, logos for friends, but never made a serious go of it. She re-trained, just as you say, and just this year got a degree. She spent a few years in school and became a medical tech. She's doing an internship -- at 54 years old! -- working all night at a hospital. Good for her! She's got a job, she's got a paycheck...entry level, at 54 years old.

This is the new America.

[SheilaT]

33. From what you've said, it was her decision

to stay in a field she really wasn't qualified for, not the state of employment in this country that makes her entry level at 54. Similar thing with me. I was entry level at the age of 60 because I'd stayed home to raise kids, never gotten a degree or had a job that was a career sort of job.

Which actually brings me to an entirely different topic: what's the difference between a career and a job. It has seemed to me most of my adult life that most people are just working at the job, even if it does lead to a promotion or several, that they don't especially like, but are more or less stuck there because that's where they wound up.

[Atman]

34. Hmmm...a CAREER vs. a JOB

I've never, ever done anything else. Design/illustration/advertising/marketing...it is my career. Except for dishwasher jobs when I was a kid, I've never done anything else. Ever.

It's not a "Job." My friend looked at graphic design as a job, as if she could just apply and suddenly be a "graphic designer." She sucked at it. So she went to school and found a new career. I don't suck at it. I've won many awards, I've been employed by some of the top firms in the country. Big difference.

But now I'm "old." Kids my son's age will work for for less than half the salary I was making. Corps don't care...cheaper salary, cheaper benefits...just hungry kids desperate to pay off student loans, which they'll never do with a $40,000 a year job.

[jtuck004]

22. "I don't know how other people do it." < Tens of Millions aren't. n/t

[tokenlib]

23. I think it's time to crack down on ageism and employers...

If it's illegal then let's prosecute.. I know the republicans and probably some dems would never allow such anti-business legislation... But it is beginning to be a major crisis. The only silver lining I see is that it might wake up the baby boomers to fight back on Social Security and the austerity assholes.. Maybe affirmative action for older folks...ok, I can dream..

Retraining is NOT the silver bullet...I know a lot of people who retrained and got back into student loan debt for the second time in their lives..and cannot get hired.

[Habibi]

38. Agreed. Retraining makes little sense in an economy without jobs

despite a few people's experience. Maybe if these retraining programs partnered with businesses who agreed to hire graduates, retraining seems like jumping out of a plane with a defective parachute.

[Ilsa]

24. I know someone in this boat.

I don't think he realizes it, though. He might need a stylist and to remove the oldest work history to get considered.

[Tuesday_Morning]

25. I'm working on a documentary right now..

.. called "3 Still Standing". It's about how 3 San Francisco comedians have gotten downsized by the same dynamics as many of us. Experienced comedians - like many older workers - are like blues musicians. They've gotten better (and much funnier) as they've gotten older but it's a struggle to make a living doing standup.

[HomerRamone]

26. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH JOBS NO MATTER WHAT YOUR AGE

Some people in this thread who have gotten a job are making the same argument as the right-wingers cutting unemployment: if you tried harder or acted smarter (retraining) you'd get a job, too. I'm pushing 60 and long-term unemployed. If I do get a job it will be keeping somebody else, young or old, from getting it. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH JOBS. This is MATH.

Life shouldn't be a game of musical chairs. We need to stop thinking about why *I*, an old person/young person/white male/whatever can't get a job, and demand enough jobs for ALL.

Then we can get back to trying to make jobs pay more/have shorter hours/suck less, which was a big factor in why they've made everyone so desperate to take ANY job at all and BLAMING THE VICTIM if they can't...

[dreamnightwind]

36. Well said

[ladyVet]

37. I'm pushing 56 really fast.

In five years of applying for all sorts of jobs, I've gotten exactly zero response. Skilled, unskilled, doesn't matter. No one will hire me.

The work I used to do, and made good money at, is gone. I've had employment office folks sending me out for skilled mechanical jobs that pay $7.50 an hour, with a 45 mile one-way commute. That's stupid. I'd be stupid to take it.

The other work I did most recently, receptionist/switchboard, now requires a bachelor's degree and two years minimum experience. Even file clerk jobs require this. And they pay is a whopping $8 an hour. Of course, I'd take the job, if I could get it.

Most things I can't physically do anymore. I have bad knees, an old back injury is getting really bad, and I have arthritis and carpal tunnel. Not considered disabled, though. Imagine that.

Honestly, telling people to retrain is useless for the most part. Any job you could hope to get, you'd be competing with twenty-somethings. Even if you could get Pell grants, you'd still be spending time for nothing. The only upside I see is that you'd be occupying your mind, and getting that much closer to retirement age, providing there's still SS when you get there.

I keep telling myself, "less than seven years. Less than seven years, and you can draw Social Security, just hang on". Maybe I'll get lucky, and the Dems won't fall to the pukes and ruin it for me and everybody else that's counting on SS.