As A Vet I Question The Value Of My Service And If It Was Worth It

[TheMastersNemesis]

When I see the nut cases in Virginia actually nearly winning when they should have lost bid at least 15 points. When I see a party attack the poor, the disabled, the sick and the vulnerable with vicious contempt and that party still wins elections and is able to stop just about everything I see red. When I see fellow Americans support Walmart over its employees who work of practically nothing and are abused. When I see children killed at Sandy Hook and GOPPERS who actually support more killing by arming everyone and it is still rewarded I am convinced that why would anyone bother to serve this sorry nation.

And when I see veterans benefits cut and our casualties become like the unknown soldiers I really don't care. I wish I could go back in time and take my service back.

The GOP should be dead as a door nail or put on the path to absolute extinction. I think that serving now only serves the interests of the Koch brothers and their allies. So you come back from your tour and all you can find is a job at Walmart or Krispy Kreme Donuts. Good jobs are still being sent overseas to places like Communist China.

I would not serve with a Republican or conservative. I would rather turn them over to the enemy because that is what they are. And anyone who votes for one of these goons is no better. The party and its supporters are nothing more than a bunch of religious zealots, racists and bigots And that is the real truth. I have no use for them as human beings or anything else.

[greytdemocrat]

1. Hmmm

You really are an embarrassment to the board at times.

[Sheldon Cooper]

3. Well, pot kettle black, and all that.

[truebluegreen]

6. +100

[LuvNewcastle]

11. I can't believe you said that. That's one of the most disgusting comments

I've ever read on this board.

[Joey Liberal]

27. You are that easily disgusted?

May I suggest that you watch Sarah Palin and then get back to me?

[Decaffeinated]

18. +1

[AAO]

20. Then so am I - I agree with him 100%.

[grahamhgreen]

71. At least he's not an embarrassment to the human race, like some people. I'm proud of him/her:)

This is the fight.

It's not USA vs Muslims.

It's USA vs multinational corporate oligarchy.

[planetc]

2. agreeing 100%

I think it's unpatriotic to vote for Republicans. In the recent election I had to vote for a couple of judges who were running unopposed. But they were also running as conservatives, so I voted on that line.

[RC]

34. I also think it's unpatriotic to vote for Republicans.

Even when they have a (D) by their names. Real Democrats should not be Right or Center on War, Health Care, Safety Nets, Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Planed Parenthood and whole host of programs and ideas that effect the welfare of the people of this nation.

[NealK]

39. +1

[HereSince1628]

4. Cheer up, We defended the American Way so it could be sold and off-shored

It's not our fault that TPTB had such modest objectives.

[LuvNewcastle]

12. I believe that intentions matter in this world.

Y'all joined with the intention of helping your country. It isn't your fault that some of our 'leaders' and other fellow countrymen took that good faith that you had and made a mockery of it. They're horrible people, but they aren't what this country really stands for. Sometimes we all lose sight of that. It's easy to do that when the good people lose against them time after time, and I wouldn't blame you if you lost faith altogether. But I don't think you ever really lose the love you have for your country, and when the time comes for you to step up again, you'll be there, because I have faith in you.

[HereSince1628]

16. I didn't enlist to help my country. Really, I didn't. I enlisted because

I had a low draft number
Was too poor to go to college
Was young and foolish (thought it shameful to pass the call on to be filled by someone else)

I really never saw the war as in any way meaningfully helping my country.
I couldn't see how the war helped VN.

[LuvNewcastle]

23. I never had to serve, but I felt the same about both of the Iraq wars and

most of the other conflicts we've been involved in for the last 40 years or so. I was a young child during the last few years of Vietnam, and I don't know much about it.

Regardless of all the moral questions surrounding the Vietnam War, you did your duty and didn't pass it along to someone else. That's a lot more than can be said about plenty of others. I'm not really judging the people who were able to get out of their duty in that war; I have no idea what I would've done if I'd been faced with the same choices.

But none of that matters when it comes down to it. What matters is what you did. You might not be proud of it, but you did what your country asked of you. What's heartbreaking about Vietnam is that we keep repeating it. Too many people in charge aren't doing what you did when called upon to serve their country. They're serving themselves and their masters. I wish we had a lot more people like you in charge, people who just quietly serve and do their duty.

[RC]

37. I enlisted in the Navy so I would not be drafted to be canon fodder in Viet Nam.

I was stationed on a troop transport (USS George Clymer APA-27) that hauled marines to Viet Nam. I can still see the faces of some of the marines on board. Some knew they were not coming back. You could tell by looking at them, Kids, my age at the time. We were barely out of the harbor after unloading them in Viet Nam, when we received word some of them were dead already. Less than an hour off the ship - dead. 18/19 year olds. Kids, just out of high school. No chance to live their lives.
No one can tell me Viet Nam was worth it. We finally left and peace broke out there.

[NealK]

40. That's so sad and horrible.

[LuvNewcastle]

58. Few of our wars have been worth it.

About the only ones you could make a case for are the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and World War II. The Civil War righted one particularly evil wrong, but God, at such a cost! I would go as far as to say that the only war of the many we were involved in during the 20th century that was even close to being a 'good war' was WW II.

We have all these wars for profit; that's really all it comes down to. You'd think that we would all be too smart by now to fall for all the tricks they pull to get us into these things, but too many people fall for it over and over again. Our government is a giant boil that needs to be lanced. Everybody knows it. We have to get rid of the people who are selling us out. We've been losing ground for years, and we're almost at the point of no return.

[Packerowner740]

66. "Peace broke out there"

Really?

[RC]

68. Yes really.

With very little help from us. You must be thinking of Korea or Iraq, neither of which we really have left.

[Packerowner740]

70. I don't think the people that were slaughtered over there after we left would say that

"Peace broke out". We shouldn't have been there in the first place but that place became a clusterfuck of the first order after we left. It was only a clusterfuck of the second order before we left.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

5. At one time, the politicians and the investment class were loyal to this country.

[Laelth]

8. I wonder if that's really true.

To quote Teddy Roosevelt in 1912:

Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics, is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

-Laelth

[NealK]

43. War Is a Racket. -Smedley Butler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

[Laelth]

7. Please, don't feel that way.

Public service of any kind (military, civil service, post office employee, teacher) is a noble calling, and I thank you for your service.

As to your comments about the GOP, I wouldn't dream of arguing with you on Veterans' Day.



-Laelth

[sarge43]

9. Thank you, Laelth

Well said. Returning salute

[Laelth]

10. My pleasure, and right back at you!

-Laelth

[randr]

13. Your service is what you make of it to this day

As you are still fighting against injustice and corruption you are still on active duty. Keep up the good work.

[freshwest]

24. +1

[madville]

14. I always just viewed it as a job

I've never reallyvcared about all the veteran stuff, I joined to get free college, health/dental care, and a decent paycheck, mission accomplished. 90% of the people I served with were conservatives/republicans, an all volunteer service attracts that group.

[Paladin]

15. Thanks for those words, TMN. Well said. (nt)

[Decaffeinated]

17. It's fucking sick...

I would not serve with a Republican or conservative. I would rather turn them over to the enemy because that is what they are

I'm glad you aren't serving. Political bullshit is not the same as someone who throws acid in girl's faces for trying to get an education.

Whatever hyperbolic bullshit you can come up with doesn't compare to that and the idea that you would turn over a brother in arms to one of those fucks is disgraceful. Feel free to continue staying away...

Petulant, childish and simple...

[MyNameGoesHere]

25. Seems you added a little hyperbole as well

by trying to emotionalize serving. I swore to defend the constitution, not protect the world from acid throwing bullies. Besides, I consider teabuggers a domestic enemy.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Decaffeinated]

28. What part of that oath...

... involves handing over people from your own force to the enemy because they have differing political philosophies.

The point stands...

[mountain grammy]

19. Tough words, but I keep asking myself the same question..

why is the GOP even viable as a political party anymore?

[NuclearDem]

21. Wow. I mean...wow.

That's pretty fucking disgusting.

Look, I get it, you hate Republicans and conservatives, we all do. But you hate them for the most petulant and childish reasons that it's embarrassing to the people who have completely legitimate adult reasons to hate them.

A Republican and a conservative airman I served with is one of my closest friends who saved me from not one, not two, but three suicide attempts after I came back from Afghanistan completely fucked up and took me into his own home with his wife and infant despite some really fucked up shit I was involved in.

This makes me completely sure you're not a veteran at all, because none of us in our right mind would consider the horrific and evil shit you just peddled here. So with absolutely no due respect, and knowing this will be hidden, fuck you. Bullshit like this really makes DU suck. If we were in the same unit, I would report you to the First Shirt and OSI and make it my life's mission to see you court-martialed and discharged in disgrace.

[Ranchemp.]

26. I hope this doesn't get hidden as it needed to be said.

Thank you.

[Phentex]

41. 3-3 to leave...nt.

[Ranchemp.]

42. Good.

Thanks for the info.

[NuclearDem]

44. If you have the jury results, could you PM me with it?

[kcr]

48. ...

At Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:35 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Wow. I mean...wow.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4015058

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

They could have totally done this post without the personal attacks. And they "know this will be hidden" but they did it anyways.

The fact that two others are applauding this personal attack are what makes DU suck, not the OP. Wholly inappropriate reply.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:50 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Time to dfk this troll before she's long overstayed her time here.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Flamebait post attracts a flame. Just because that was inevitable doesn't mean flaming gets a free pass.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I feel they're warranted...and as far as I'm voting, they won't be hidden.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Sometimes it's OK to be passionate about something like this. I don't think this post is malicious or over the top. I see it as raw emotion in response to a very personal and painful topic. It's Veterans Day for crying out loud. Can we all just appreciate the people who serve without editorializing it to death?
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: I agree with the sentiment but not the ad hominem component of this post. It needed to be said, but not in this manner.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[rudolph the red]

29. Well said

[sarisataka]

36. I question the vet claim as well...

I served with all political stripes from hard right to nearly Marxist. Politics did not usually come up but we could get very spirited when it did. At the end we all could agree that we could count the number of politicians who were truly on our side on one hand and still have enough left to thumb wrestle.

When I shipped as a reservist in '91, exactly 2 politicians came to see us off and offer support,
-Jessie Venture, governor at the time who talked to us as a fellow vet not from a politic standpoint, and
-Paul Wellstone, who stood up and spoke to us about his opposition to the coming war and desire to get us home quickly and safely. That took balls and he gained a lot of people's respect that day. I was able to shake his hand and look him in the eye to see if he was honest or just talking the talk. I then promised him my vote in every election; I kept my promise until his death.

[pecwae]

59. Bravo!

Not only for you, but for the jury results. Sometimes what needs to be said needs to be said...without mincing words.

[Packerowner740]

67. As the son of a vet, the brother of a vet and the parent of an active duty son

Thank you

[grahamhgreen]

72. So what are you fighting for?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

22. way true.

Not to mention the damaged people who come back....

[pansypoo53219]

30. the gnewz media are colluding to keep reaganism's voodoo economics & them alive

by giving them the louder voice and ignoring the left. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BE LIBERAL.

[flamingdem]

31. We need to get Immigration passed

and vote the repukes into a political grave.

[boomersense]

32. I understand exactly how you're feeling. I have some of those feelings myself. I

served in the Army (MOS Infantry) and was in Vietnam in 1967 and 1968. Not only do I feel the things you do with respect to life after service, I also regret my time served having seen our military do things I still cannot believe to this day. I imagine you saw some things too . . . It is pointless to discuss. I had a fairly successful life post-military and have worked every year to improve benefits and other ancillaries for veterans. It is difficult; once you get that DD-214 the military and ostensibly the country is done with you, except maybe those who like to criticize you for occasionally being human. So, I hope you have some good fortune in your future and one day the bitterness you feel can be attenuated.

[oberliner]

33. Who was POTUS when you served?

Just curious.

[mc51tc]

35. I like the guest post written today on Juanita Jean`s blog.

"As a veteran, I can tell you that we really don’t want “thank you’s”. We want cash."

Read the reason why here:

http://www.juanitajean.com/2013/11/10/guest-post/

Very well said!

[boomersense]

38. That was a great one, indeed. That's what the

folks with the small signs on their chests "Homeless Veteran. Please Help." want--not gratuitous adulation. I'll have a lot of "cash" with me today when I hit the streets. Thanks for the post.

[grasswire]

46. welcome to DU

You will be a great addition here. Keep posting!

:wave:

[boomersense]

47. Thanks nt

fffffffff

[TheMastersNemesis]

49. I Am Appalled By The Mean Spiritedness That Infests The Nation Now.

Mean spiritedness toward poor people, sick people, minorities, gays, or anyone who supposedly gets government help is just plain unAmerican. Veterans actually are 2nd class citizens when it comes to treatment and benefits. A job a Walmart or Krispy Kreme at minimum or low wage is an insult to veterans and even working Americans. Vets make good cannon fodder and economic fodder when they return. And the damaged ones get pretty much thrown aside.

And there is no mention of our KIA's in Afghanistan anymore. I don't care that one asshole called me an embarrassment. They have their head up their ass as far as I am concerned. I wonder if they ever served. If they did then they really do not get it.

The point is that we allow the GOP to attack these people and actually cut vets benefits while they blame Dems or corner them to do it. Then people vote for these DIRTY ROTTEN BIGOTED HATEFUL BASTARDS. I have no use for the GOP at any level. What makes it worse is that Dems seem to have no spine too often.

So what are vets serving for? They are serving so that Koch's and their billionaire allies can rape just about everyone and everything on the planet. Somehow risking coming home for the rich Koch scum is outrageous. America should be about economic and social justice and not about economic pillage of workers.

[NuclearDem]

50. They called you an embarrassment because you advocated stabbing your brothers in arms in the back

Over their being Republicans. You jumped the shark thoroughly.

[kcr]

51. Speaking of embarrassment

I think I'd be pretty embarrassed for claiming his reasons for hating Republicans were childish - particularly the one about veterans benefits being cut - But maybe that's just me. I doubt it, though. I thought those were pretty standard reasons. They were certainly more than valid for being disgusted. I've personally witnessed the effects these cuts have had. And I'd more than understand the victims of those cuts feeling way the OP did. And to tell them to fuck off? Wow, indeed.

[NuclearDem]

52. It's not just this OP.

It's a long sad history of punching down at people and making sweeping generalizations about people who may or may not vote Republican.

Pissed off about veteran benefits being cut, or veterans being left homeless? Fine, punch up. Aim for the Koch brothers, the Republican leadership, and the MIC. Don't take aim at the people they're exploiting just as much as us, and don't play into their favorite game of watching the lower classes eat each other.

Say what you will about Republicans, but no conservative veteran I've ever known has advocated throwing me to the wolves over my political beliefs. This OP was an utter embarrassment and disgusting on several levels, and I'm sick of shit like this.

[kcr]

56. Uh huh

Maybe I'd be more sympathetic if you hadn't claimed his beef with Republicans was childish. Really, that seems like telling statement and one that's awfully hard to misinterpret. Exactly how is that childish? Sorry. I think that was a little bit of a slip, there.

Aw ww. Sweeping generalizations about Republicans? On DU? The horror. Yeah, Republicans are people, too. They're not all bad people. I get that. I have relatives I love dearly who are. And I'm sure it's entirely possible that your personal experience has been that you haven't noted that any of your veterans you've known have expressed that they'd advocate throwing you to the wolves, though, given your participation record on DU, I have a hard time believing you're all that strident about it in RL, especially during military service. But, at any rate, just as that has been your experience, I haven't noted that too many liberals in RL throw Repubs to the wolves. Because it's RL. So, your telling a fellow vet directly to fuck off? A great big pile of unnecessary, embarrassing excrement. You should be ashamed.

[rudolph the red]

53. I left the Marines in '09 with a 76% medical disability

I am very happy with the treatment that I receive from the VA, and with my benefits overall. As far as working at Walmart goes, my friends and I run a moderately successful business crafting and installing custom cabinets and flooring, and I know many other vets that have moved on to good careers.

I realize that it is tough for many vets to adjust. I went through a pretty dark period myself, but there is help available if you are willing to seek it out. Life is good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You sure you are a vet?

I am sorry but when the shit hits the fan and all is FUBARED politics has no place in it.

I would rather turn them over to the enemy because that is what they are.

As much as you feel that way, if you are in a combat zone you do not leave anybody behind.

Now I have no doubts that you are a vet, an angry, vet at that. I understand the anger. But you have become exactly what you despise.

I usually avoid your threads, or posting on them. But this had to be said, and lastly this quote might be good for self reflection, perhaps.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. I put in my 4 years doing absolutely nothing beneficial to anyone other than the MIC.

And, politicians who wanted me to murder people so they could look "tough" on Communism or some other bogeyman.

[mike_c]

57. "serving now only serves the interests of the Koch brothers and their allies...."

Bingo. The U.S. military has not defended the country in a long time. For most of the last 50 years it has thugged for the profit interests of the 1%. Poor people around the world die in droves to keep the MIC profitable.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. Again with the death fantasies. nt

[cynatnite]

61. It's a matter of how much your country values your service...

I value my service very much because of what it did for me on a personal level. I was fortunate to have a fantastic group of people around me who understood what it meant to serve. Most of my DI's were Vietnam Vets. They understood war and how ugly it got. They did a fantastic job in passing on to us what war meant and what it meant to serve our country.

Sometimes it now seems like the recruitment shtick resembles a cool action movie. I would probably discourage anyone from serving, but the choice is still theirs and it's up to them to determine what their service means to them. That part of it is a personal thing.

However, on the other end is how much does your country value your service. Do they value it enough to ensure that there are no homeless veterans? That there are no starving veterans? Do they value your service enough to make sure that you have access to the VA and that you are getting all the care you need?

Sadly enough...we know the answers to these questions. What's even more sad is that this country has not done a fucking thing to make sure there are no more military veterans.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. This post will forever define you in my eyes. "I would rather turn them over to the enemy..." OMFG.

You would willingly, happily turn fellow servicemembers over to the enemy, subject them to torture and execution, because of their political philosophy.

How this post was allowed to stand says a lot about today's DU. It sickens me... your kind of hatred is something I'm simply not capable of, but obviously there are at least 30 others here who would do the same, as evidenced by their recs.

This veteran says LOUDLY that you are not, were not, nor will you ever be part of the fraternity or sorority of servicemembers who served their country out of a sense of duty or loyalty. I don't know what you did while you were "in", nor could I care less at this moment. Given what you have posted here, I wholeheartedly believe that if the chips were down, you'd have given them up to the enemy even if you DIDN'T know what their politics were, just to save your own ass. Sad, indeed.

That you would give up those you supposedly served with to probable torture and possible execution says everything I'll ever need to know about you.

[NuclearDem]

63. +1000

[loli phabay]

64. highly recommended, i would never have turned on my own even the guys i hated

[Ranchemp.]

65. Fuckin A.

I know of no true vet that would ever even think about turning over a fellow vet to the enemy.
This is some sick shit and, well, i'm now questioning his supposed, oh, never mind.

[Dreamer Tatum]

69. The OP has repeatedly, habitually stated a desire to watch his enemies die

or fail to take an action that would prevent their death. This is nothing new from the OP.

[grahamhgreen]

73. We're talking about a segment of the populace that mislead the country into war and hates the govt,

I don't see how one can respect that (meaning the far right R's positions)

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. I'm talking about turning fellow American men and women over to an enemy who would likely

torture and execute them, because of their political philosophy. Lack of respect doesn't begin to describe how I feel about that.

[pinboy3niner]

74. It reminds me of what Ted Nugent said about killing hippies in foxholes

This is just the flip side of the same coin.

“… if I would have gone over there (Vietnam), I’d have been killed, or I’d have killed, or I’d kill all the hippies in the foxholes … I would have killed everybody,” (Ted Nugent) told the Detroit Free Press in an interview published July 15, 1990.

http://blog.reidreport.com/2012/04/ted-nugent-draft-dodger/

[cherokeeprogressive]

76. Ted Nugent is Ted Nugent.

I don't think much more needs to be said about that. Cowards are cowards and I don't think he would have put a finger inside the trigger guard.