Atheists starting godless churches

[Redfairen]

Has anyone here attended an atheist church?



It looked like a typical Sunday morning at any mega-church. Several hundred people, including families with small children, packed in for more than an hour of rousing music, an inspirational sermon, a reading and some quiet reflection. The only thing missing was God.

Nearly three dozen gatherings dubbed "atheist mega-churches" by supporters and detractors have sprung up around the U.S. and Australia, with more to come, after finding success in Great Britain earlier this year. The movement fueled by social media and spearheaded by two prominent British comedians is no joke.

On Sunday, the inaugural Sunday Assembly in Los Angeles attracted several hundred people bound by their belief in non-belief. Similar gatherings in San Diego, Nashville, New York and other U.S. cities have drawn hundreds of atheists seeking the camaraderie of a congregation without religion or ritual.

The founders, British duo Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans, are currently on a tongue-in-cheek "40 Dates, 40 Nights" tour around the U.S. and Australia to drum up donations and help launch new Sunday Assemblies. They hope to raise more than $800,000 that will help atheists launch their pop-up congregations around the world. So far, they have raised about $50,000.

They don't bash believers but want to find a new way to meet like-minded people, engage in the community and make their presence more visible in a landscape dominated by faith.

http://m.detnews.com/lifestyles/article?a=2013311110027&f=1217

[Bragi]

1. Doesn't Unitarianism fill that gap?

That's what I've always thought. If, as an atheist, I seek a congregation of some sort to meet with, then Unitarianism seems like the way to go. No? - B

[Stuckinthebush]

3. Yes....pretty much

Of course, UUs have Wiccans and Buddhists, and liberal Christians in their ranks. They are more accurately described as an eclectic mix of people with various beliefs and theologies. Most are progressive and most would describe themselves as non-theists.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. Not in my Church

Somerville NJ - and not at First Unitarian in Rochester Ny either. . . I think we all believe in a Spirit or God - we just don't like outsiders throwing labels on us or telling us what to think. I.E. Is there really a better way to praise and pray? I don't think so.

[Stuckinthebush]

7. I think that would be considered to be out of the mainstream UU

As a UU, I do know that all congregations are different.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. Nah

We have people that practice Buddhism and Wiccanism and such - and but they get just as bananas over Christmas as those of us that vocally have denied the trinity and the 'mystical' elements of Christianity - i.e. view that as a married, fallible, human being.

I came to UU because I do not believe that a man name Yeshua was a supernatural creature. That's hooey to me. Has been since I was 8 years old even though I had that shoved down my throat for years. To me? He was most likely a Rabbi, married, and had a couple of kids. He was killed by the Romans and that's the end of the story.

ONLY the UU's will accept that from me (as I'm sure you do). You cannot - seriously - canNOt - say that in a Baptist Church (what I was raised in) and truthfully - it would be flat out rude to go to this Atheist 'church' and start spouting off ANY of it.

I see nothing wrong with what they are doing - do you? I mean to each their own.

ETA: Here's a link to an overview of our fellowship. http://uucsh.org/community/sunday-worship/

[Stuckinthebush]

86. Nope

I don't see anything wrong at all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. Thats not Unitarian Universalist at all!

[JustAnotherGen]

4. Not really

I'm a Unitarian Universalist and have a deep profound belief in a Spirit - but it shatters the 'big three' when I lay down my framework for that.

Do we have Atheists in my current church? Hmmm - no. I'd say it's about 25% born into the belief, 75% new comers.I also am a firm believer that Rabbi Arius was the correct path way for what has evolved to Christianity but louder Pagan Priests with more to lose held sway and won.

I think we would welcome an Atheist - but I highly doubt Atheists would appreciate me coming into their community/meeting and asking them how shall wel honor the Solstice - and if they would like to attend my Christmas Light reading and perhaps be a Dickensian town person in our play!

[HereSince1628]

22. As an atheist-leaning agnostic I saw Unitarian congregations as intellectually incoherent.

Atheism, as I am familiar with its practice, lacks tolerance for beliefs that on inspection look rather like deceptive rationalizations through the use of fictionalized 'spiritual entities' that enable believers in such things to mortar over psychological distress common to human existence.

I didn't find it was possible to be honestly supportive of the 'everything is OK' point of view of Unitarian congregations. I found myself feeling judgemental of the beliefs of others.

I recognized THAT as un-Unitarian. So I moved along, found the same go-along to get along thing in several UU congregations and decided that wasn't an arena for me.

[Warpy]

18. Dunno, I think it varies from congregation to congregation

and some of them give atheists a pretty chilly reception. If I were a joiner, I'd choose the UU, though, I've never gotten the oppressive "churchy" vibe from any of them.

In addition, they're not everywhere.

Personally, I don't think the church of atheism/humanism/rude songs is going to last very long. I have friends in London who went to the one there and had a great time, but they could have had a great time going to the pub, getting sloshed, and singing the same songs with the same people.

[Arugula Latte]

23. It sounds like it varies, perhaps geographically.

From what I've heard described I think a lot of UU churches here on the West Coast are filled with atheists and agnostics as well as other "spiritual" people of all stripes and probably some mildly Christian (in the sense that they really do think that Jesus was a supernaturally magical dude and all of that) as well as "Christians" who think that the resurrection story is mythology but like what ol' JC had to say (or what is attributed to a figure called Jesus).

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. No it doesn't..

Atheist and Agnostic People Welcome
People with atheist and agnostic beliefs are welcome in Unitarian Universalism and find a supportive community in our congregations. Although both groups are often defined by what they do not believe, agnostics and atheists can be at home in Unitarian Universalism because of what we do believe. Rev. Dr. William F. Schulz, human rights activist and President-CEO of the Unitarian Universalist (UU) Service Committee, writes of these beliefs we share:

We believe that human beings are responsible for the future; that history is in our hands, not those of an angry God or inexorable fate.

We believe that life's blessings are available to everyone, not just those who can recite a certain catechism,

And we believe that those blessings are made manifest to us not just in the "miraculous" or extraordinary but in the simple pleasures of the everyday.

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/welcome/atheism/index.shtml

[Chan790]

61. It's a bit one directional, it seems.

UUs are very open to welcoming people with atheist and agnostic beliefs...but I've found them very un-accomodating of the reality that most people with atheist and agnostic beliefs actively reject the supernatural and spiritual beliefs of others in ways that could not be considered open or inclusive. What makes me an atheist isn't just my belief that there is no god...it's my strident rejection of your belief that there is and my desire to liberate you (and everybody) from mythology and the burdens of faith & belief, which is wholly incompatible with the open-and-inclusive spiritual beliefs of Unitarian Universalists.

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. then you are proselytizing too. I reject that from anyone.

of any flavor..it is equally abhorrent to me. Whether I believe or not is really none of you or anyone else's business. So it is not the UU being noninclusive of you....but the exact opposite.

[Chan790]

73. A parable from my day.

Earlier today, my Hindu roommate informed me it's his religious belief that all Buddhists, Catholics and Mormons are also Hindus. They just worship a different deity than he does.

To me, that's just absurd. It's his imposition of his belief model on non-adherents...of course, it's up to those adherents to decide if they want to adopt his belief model...but if you're a Mormon, Catholic or Buddhist and you agree you're also a Hindu...to me, you're not really a Mormon, Catholic or Buddhist...you're a Hindu.

Likewise, Atheists that are Unitarian Universalists...aren't atheist, they're Unitarian Universalist.

Further, all belief systems are proselytizing...you're even doing it in this post, to promote your belief model based on open-and-inclusive perspectives of spiritual beliefs and a personal spiritualism that is, as you say, "none of you or anyone else's business."

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. this is your opinion...and no they don't all proselytize...

Have you even been to a UU service? They don't pray....they have moments of silence.

[Dorian Gray]

80. Well

I can see how people wouldn't feel welcoming if you are stridently rejecting their beliefs all the while trying to liberate them from their beliefs. UU is inclusive of people of many different backgrounds and beliefs. They're a welcoming group, so if someone is confrontational about those backgrounds and beliefs, I'd think they'd be somewhat unaccommodating.

[Chan790]

83. My point remains that an atheist in a UU congregation...

is a Unitarian Universalist, not an Atheist. Atheism is a worldview that rejects spiritual and supernatural belief systems.

I don't think people who "reject spiritual and supernatural belief systems" can belong to a UU congregation (or any religious congregation for that matter, no matter how open or affirming) and still be considered atheists...and the feelings of UUs on that are largely immaterial for the same reason nobody cares if my Hindu roommate D thinks Catholics are really Hindu.

[pscot]

2. Why not start a bowling league?

[FSogol]

5. Or go to your local pub?

[OriginalGeek]

43. I meet most of my atheist friends at death metal shows

We drink, we listen to music, we go home.

Other than that, I hated getting up early on Sundays when I had to - I damn sure ain't gonna do it now that I don't.


Never say never but I doubt I would attend a meeting even if it was later in the day. "Hey, y'all still don't believe? Nope? OK then, see ya next week."

[Cleita]

50. I once lived in a small town with around three hundred

locals. The population would swell up in the summer with tourists. There were five churches and five bars in the town. I once asked a local who went to church and who went drinking. His answer was everyone. They went to church on Sunday and to the bar after cuz there was nothing else to do.

[CherokeeDem]

8. I am not religious...

but I do not understand this movement. Perhaps there is comfort in numbers and these people need the sense of belonging to something; to me it seems as if they are simply trading one crutch for another. However, to each his own and if this works for some, I hope they enjoy it and find peace.

[Arugula Latte]

24. As an atheist I don't think I would want to attend

but I do understand that human beings have a natural need for community, so it would make sense that many want to feel a kinship with like-minded people on a regular basis.

[loyalsister]

52. I agree

But, at the same time, to call a church based on atheism seems to be antithetical to a rejection of a belief.

[Luminous Animal]

70. Except that they don't. The media does. The organizers call it an assembly.

It is easy to find the facts for yourself. It takes a brain and a search engine.

This thread is a lesson on how easy the media leads people to swallow anything they print hook line and sinker.

[fadedrose]

68. Do I have to wear a hat? It's what turned me off of "real" church

That, and the sermon with the priest hollering his head off about how bad we were that had the same effect on the parish as sleeping pills.

And can't it be at a more civilized time than Sunday morning when all sane people should be asleep, just as soon as they got up to feed the birds and went back to bed?

Saturday night would be better, and it would be like old times (really old times) when I used to get dressed up to go out to a restaurant, movie, or a bar and flirt....

And they don't even have Hit Parade on TV anymore with Dorothy Collins, Giselle McKenzie and Snooky Lanson singing the top ten at 10:30 Sat nite...may as well go to atheist church.

[Arugula Latte]

71. Yeah, I agree. Sunday morning is for sleeping in.

I'm more of a night person anyway, and I'd be much more likely to go out somewhere if I knew I could get a nice drink once I got there.

There's a bar in Boston called "Church" so you can tell people you're going to church and not be lying.

This is my kind of church:

[KatyMan]

9. I've always considered one of the benefits of being an atheist...

is sleeping in on Sunday mornings...

I don't need any church or fellowship to have a fulfilling life.

[NightWatcher]

25. DING, we haz a winner

[HappyMe]

10. Fine with me.

If that's what they want, good for them.

[Orrex]

11. I think that this would be as unpalatable to me as would a pentacostal service

I'm sure that it meets a certain need for some people, and as an effort at communitiy mobilization I suppose that it offers considerable value, but it's not my cup of tea.

[rurallib]

12. My group has mandatory sleep in on Sunday morning

followed by no meetings that or any other day.
For some strange reason no one wants to get together to talk about what we don't believe in or to not offer prayers to no one.

[haele]

13. Sounds like a weekly community resource meeting. Why call it a church?

Unless you want to encourage a few sweet old church-lady types to run the after-meeting luncheon/buffet. Nothing like the old-fashioned after-church fried chicken and proper ambrosia...

Haele

[Cleita]

14. Why not?

At the end of the day, atheism is another belief system, the one that says there are no gods or heaven and hell. But shouldn't believers be able to get together to enjoy the same sense of community that churches bring?

Personally, I wish there were a church of science. Too bad a couple of wacky cults have coopted the name. The church of science the way I see it would believe in what has been proven to be fact, would accept when dearly held theories are proved wrong and move on, would have an open mind towards things that haven't been proven yet and would apply scientific method to all those unproven ideas. It would be fluid and non-dogmatic about reaching the truth. We who think this way also need a church.

[Orrex]

16. Atheism need not be a belief system, and science should not have a church

[Cleita]

19. Scientists need not attend.

But many who do not ascribe to traditional beliefs would probably like to belong to a community that has inspirational meetings, does charitable work and even bingo don't you think? Please don't think special interest clubs are the answer. I belong to a couple and somehow others still manage to insert their gods and beliefs into them.

[Orrex]

21. What would a "church of science" be, in your estimation?

Too many people already subscribe to the foolish notion that science is a religion, and a "church of science" would only serve to foster that ridiculous idea.

[Cleita]

26. Consider this.

The science we know today came from religion. Religion came from our early ancestors need to understand the universe around them. Astronomy came from astrology, chemistry from alchemy. Math, physics and engineering came from the building experiments of raising temples and tombs. Early mathematicians and scientists in the Greco/Roman world were known as philosophers because they walked a world that was between the known and the unknown.

Also human beings have a primitive need to celebrate life events, births, coming of age, marriages, menopause in women and deaths. Churches fulfill this need. When my neighbor lost her husband she was surrounded by the love and support of her church and it's members. When my husband died, his funeral arrangements were taken over by family and a church I didn't belong to. I was pretty much left out twisting in the wind. It would have been nice to have a community of like minded friends to help me celebrate his life.

These are just my thoughts though so take from it what you will.

[Orrex]

27. That doesn't explain what a "church of science" might be.

So science evolved from primitive meldings of belief and research. So what? That simply explains how science was developed over centuries, but it doesn't explain what a "church of science" might be.

Also human beings have a primitive need to celebrate life events, births, coming of age, marriages, menopause in women and deaths. Churches fulfill this need. When my neighbor lost her husband she was surrounded by the love and support of her church and it's members. When my husband died, his funeral arrangements were taken over by family and a church I didn't belong to. I was pretty much left out twisting in the wind. It would have been nice to have a community of like minded friends to help me celebrate his life.

A lovely sentiment, but it does nothing at all to explain what a "church of science" might be.

I'm not interested in discussing a need for "a community of like minded friends." I want to understand what you feel a "church of science" might be.

[Cleita]

36. I don't know either. I'm sure a bunch of like minded people could

get together and decide what it could be and what would constitute its guidelines, not dogma but guidelines subject to change as information becomes available. What it would be is a community of like minded people. I would prefer that there be no professional leaders, like priests or ministers, but instead that a democratic system of selecting leaders for the year by lottery be used.

Where to meet? My personal preference would be a nice green house within a garden, but that would be up to the members too. Also there needs to be legal safeguards against using it to make money for those unscrupulous ones among our peers.

Since people band together as community, which is what a church is, your request that I explain what you don't like about the concept doesn't make sense. Other than Creationists and flat earth believers most of us know what science is and I would love the weekly sermon to be on things that are affecting us today, like global climate change or new discoveries in medicine. Also, informing against junk science and science used for destructive purposes.

Instead of some jackass carrying on about Armageddon how about information on keeping our world healthy for future generations?

[KittyWampus]

64. Everyone has a "World View". Everyone has philosophical frameworks. Everyone.

Science does have a philosophical perspectives- Materialism and Idealism.

Although a large number of DU'ers think Science is de facto Materialist… it is not.

Atheists do have a belief system. Whether individuals have consciously worked it out is immaterial.

[Orrex]

78. Atheism need not be a belief system, and science should not have a church

[Ohio Joe]

17. I am an ordained atheist minister

I've even performed a wedding

[Zorra]

20. Using Religion to Discriminate

If I join, will I be able to discriminate against religious bigots like they discriminate against me? "Oh, sorry...I see you are a RW fundy, can't sell you any Oxycontin and valium because my atheist church beliefs forbid me to sell drugs to known bigots."

Using Religion to Discriminate

With increasing frequency, we are seeing individuals and institutions claiming a right to discriminate – by refusing to provide services to women and LGBT people – based on religious objections. The discrimination takes many forms, including:
snip---
Instances of institutions and individuals claiming a right to discriminate in the name of religion aren’t new. In the 1960s, we saw institutions object to laws requiring integration in restaurants because of sincerely held beliefs that God wanted the races to be separate. We saw religiously affiliated universities refuse to admit students who engaged in interracial dating. In those cases, we recognized that requiring integration was not about violating religious liberty; it was about ensuring fairness. It is no different today.

Religious freedom in America means that we all have a right to our religious beliefs, but this does not give us the right to use our religion to discriminate against and impose those beliefs on others who do not share them.

Through litigation, advocacy and public education, the ACLU works to defend religious liberty and to ensure that no one is either discriminated against nor denied services because of someone else’s religious beliefs.

(Just kidding about wanting to discriminate against religious haters; I would never stoop to anywhere near their pathetic level of ignorance and hate)

[Chan790]

63. In theory, yes you can! n/t

[Initech]

29. Doesn't starting a church go against the belief of atheism?

[B Calm]

46. Bingo!

[Luminous Animal]

56. Well, the organizers don't call it church so there you go.

[spanone]

30. oxymorans

[Egnever]

32. this will not end well

not sure if I could find this any more repulsive.

[LittleBlue]

33. How embarrassing

This is what I was afraid of. As an atheist myself, I find creating an industry out of this appalling (Sam Harris et al). Creating a written doctrine was always a natural step in atheism becoming an organized religion.

Pathetic!

[NightWatcher]

35. Organized Atheists for the Non-heretical Heretic. What would you name the locations

Instead of naming them after saints, would they be named after dudes?

Pray At Joes?

[Luminous Animal]

67. How embarrassing that you believe the article.

The organizers do not call it a church and there is no written doctrine.

The facts are just a few intertube clicks of your fingertips

[NightWatcher]

34. what songs would be in the Atheist hymnal?

Oh Come All Ye Non-believers?
Why Are We Getting Up On Sunday?
This Better Be Over Before The Game Starts
I Shaved My Legs For This?

[Heidi]

81. "This is the entire atheist hymnal, right here."

Atheists Don't Have No Songs

(Christians have)
Christians have their hymns and pages.
(Hymns and pages)
Hava Nagila's for the Jews.
(For the Jews)
Baptists have the rock of ages.
(Rock of ages)
Atheists just sing the blues.

(Romantics play)
Romantics play Claire de Lune.
(Claire de Lune)
Born agains sing He is risen.
But no one ever wrote a tune.
(Wrote a tune)
For godless existentialism.
(For godless existentialism)

For Atheists,
There's no good news.
They'll never sing,
A song of faith.

In their songs,
They have a rule.
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.

(Some folks sing)
Some folks sing a Bach cantata.
(Bach cantata)
Lutherans get Christmas trees.
Atheist songs add up to nada.
(Up to nada)
But they do have Sundays free.
(Have Sundays free)

(Pentecostals sing)
Pentecostals sing, sing to heaven,
(Sing to heaven)
Gothics had the books of scrolls,
(Numerologists count)
Numerologists count, count to seven,
(Count to seven)
Atheists have rock and roll.

For Atheists,
There's no good news.
They'll never sing,
A song of faith.

In their songs,
They have a rule.
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.

Atheists
... Atheists
... Atheists
Don't Have No SONGS!

(Christians have)
Christians have their hymns and pages.
(Hymns and pages)
Hava Nagila's for the Jews.
(For the Jews)
Baptists have the rock of ages.
(Rock of ages)
Atheists just sing the blues.

Catholics,
Dress up for Mass.
And listen to,
Gregorian chants.

Atheists,
Just take a pass.
Watch football in their underpants.
Watch football in their underpants.

Atheists
... Atheists
... Atheists
Don't Have No SONGS!
(Don't Have No Songs)

[Blue_Tires]

37. Isn't an "atheist church" the same as a regular "meetup?"

[KurtNYC]

47. but tax exempt.

[derby378]

38. My wife and I went to the North Texas Church of Freethought a few times back in the 90s

They're now known as Fellowship of Freethought Dallas. I once went on a ghost town excursion with their current Education Director.

[malaise]

39. I hae never heard anything so stupid and I'm an atheist

I don't need a single religious institution or a replacement building. I simply have no gods and believe in the laws of men, women and nature.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

40. They're doing what the UUs have already done.

UUs accept atheists and agnostics and pagans. They love to have discussion groups in the time slot where other churches have Sunday school!! The discussion groups are interesting.

I say this as a member, choir director and music director at various UU churches and fellowships since 1979. It's the only church that accepts atheists, agnostics, the questioning and pagans, so it's the only church I'll set foot in. And it's good to have a community where asking questions about god and creation are not a huge sin making you worthy of expulsion.

They have taken many of the standard hymns and changed the words. They also started in the 80s to rewrite words to hymns to remove sexist references to mankind.

I live too far out in the country to be near a UU church or fellowship.

There are secular humanist ministers too. www.secularhumanist.org

[MadrasT]

41. I don't understand the point.

This introverted atheist likes not having to go anywhere on Sundays.

I worship my peace and quiet at the House of MadrasT with my conclave of cats.

[WinkyDink]

42. Otherwise known as a "gathering of people." NOT a "church" and NOT a "sermon."

[frogmarch]

44. An atheist "church" is

like a vegan steakhouse would be. Why don't these non-believers call their meeting places something else, something that's applicable?

I'm an atheist, and I dislike the term "church" being used to describe a meeting house for atheists.

[Cleita]

49. Call it a community. That's what church actually meant in the beginning

of Christianity.

[Luminous Animal]

57. They do. They call it an assembly. The media has dubbed it a church.

The title is Sunday Assembly:

http://sundayassembly.com/about/

The Public Charter

The Sunday Assembly is a godless congregation that celebrate life. Our motto: live better, help often, wonder more. Our mission: to help everyone find and fulfill their full potential. Our vision: a godless congregation in every town, city and village that wants one.

We are here for everyone who wants to:

Live Better. We aim to provide inspiring, thought-provoking and practical ideas that help people to live the lives they want to lead and be the people they want to be

Help Often. Assemblies are communities of action building lives of purpose, encouraging us all to help anyone who needs it to support each other

Wonder More. Hearing talks, singing as one, listening to readings and even playing games helps us to connect with each other and the awesome world we live in.

[frogmarch]

58. Thanks. That's better! nt

[arely staircase]

45. an atheist schism

how poetically ironic

[Blue Idaho]

48. Call Me Old Fashioned...

I don't want to belong to a mega - anything...

[Luminous Animal]

59. The assemblies actually don't qualify for the definition of mega anything.

[Blue Idaho]

88. Thank Goodness for that!

Everytime I drive past a "Mega Church" i think about how blindly cult-like they really are.

[LadyHawkAZ]

51. Nope. No thanks.

The fundraising element makes it smell a little like eau de scam. I'll stick with my local group, thanks.

[devils chaplain]

53. I'm an atheist, and... no thanks. N/T

[Incitatus]

54. Oh crap, I saw this on South Park

I don't think it ended well.

[Union Scribe]

55. Lol.

Just lol.

[alp227]

60. Most likely this terminology originates from crap journalism. nt

[Luminous Animal]

66. Yes, indeed it does and a lesson on how to people will believe

anything they read.

#1) The organizers do not call it a church. They call is an assembly.
#2) They've met all of 3 times in London, the originating city and the meeting doesn't even come close to mega.

Crazy what people will swallow when it only takes a moment to go to their website to check it out.

No wonder we invaded Iraq.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. It's great. Every Sunday

I don't go.

[Vashta Nerada]

69. One of the reasons why I am an atheist is because I don't

Want to go to church.

No thanks.

I hate fads.

[Luminous Animal]

72. Is it a church? They don't call it that. They call it an assembly..

You know, a meeting of a like minded group of people. Like a union or occupy.

[Vashta Nerada]

82. I know that.

But my comment still stands.

I don't want to get up early on Sunday morning.

[fadedrose]

74. The Australian angle...

Maybe it was an idea that sprung from the writings of Dr. Barbara Thiering, a professor at the University of Australia. She has several books out about Jesus being a man, a rabbi, married, a fund-raiser, who wanted to make peace with the Romans in order to convert them. Trouble with conversion was that orthodox Judaism would never have been accepted by the Romans. Too strict, with circumcision, diet, religious holidays, etc.

That was a no-no with the zealots in his group at Qumron. They were against any relaxing Jewish law.

He was crucified, drugged to appear dead, hidden in a cave till he recovered, made some appearances and moved to France, I believe, with a wife, who was Mary Magdalene. He died rather old...had children. Traveled with Paul in Acts.

This was the group that wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Theiring does all her transcriptions directly from the Greek. These were written at the time that Jesus lived there...Thiering claims that these Jews lived there and called it Jerusalem because the chief rabbi in Jerusalem was put there by the Romans and they refused to accept him. She also claims that these were the earliest Christians...which the RC Church denies. The 4 Gospels were written not in Jerusalem, but in Qumron which the Jews called Jerusalem, and scholars have long been puzzled about the geography in the gospels. She claims there was a gay group there as well.

She's popular in Australia, but her first book was practically outlawed here.

Oh ya, where was I? Giving my opinion about why there's atheists in Austrailia...

[fadedrose]

75. When I lived in another state

I attended Unitarian-Universalist church for a while. I liked the services, but didn't like getting up Sunday mornings.

Then too they did stuff that I was tired of as a Christian - especially easter eggs. Waste of time, and too much cholesterol. They enjoyed manger scenes, etc., for what they were - customs, not beliefs.

Most left the church after education or battles with clergy. They needed to go to church for, what's the word? Not justified, can't remember the word...validated, that's it. I felt I didn't need validation because I felt no guilt about leaving the church.

[Deep13]

76. Wait, what? nt

[quaker bill]

77. Quaker Meetings like mine are more inclusive.

The question of what you believe just does not come up, that is, as long as you don't attempt to impose it on others... Attempts to impose are unwelcome.

Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, Gays, Lesbians, Straights, Blacks, Whites, and Hispanics, and more can form a community. I know this because I am part of one.

[ProfessorGAC]

79. My Church Looks Remarkably Like A Golf Course

You'd probably think it was a golf course as you drove by. Nope, it's the church i go to. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

Don't need safety in numbers to rationalize my belief system. Not gonna put down anyone who does, though.

I don't sleep in on Sunday morning. I'm at "church" because my tee time is 6:30 during the warm weather.
GAC

[sibelian]

84. Can't see the problem, meself.

Actually, I think one of the few good things about religion is the way it joins communities together to a common view of how the social locality should move forward as a group. People who otherwise would never meet are brought to a common purpose. The regularity of such meets is an important factor. It provides a backdrop against which the emotional upheaval subsequent to ups and downs of life can be set aside so we can focus on things that are important and steer our personal behaviour according to a set of principles. I think that sense of solidity is a very good thing. I think religion's "ownership" of it is an accident, little analysed and little understood.

What's wrong with getting together on a day of rest to listen to wisdom? To consider philosophical problems? To better oneself among a group of like-minded ppers? To be part of a community that develops a set of shared values? Sounds like an unambiguously good thing to me. Personal morality is strengthened by group consensus.

And as far as I'm concerned, the aspects]/i] of religion that I've outlined above were the main (if somewhat occulted) plus points of religious institutions that actually made them work and gave them value to the populace before it became socially and acceptable to question the myths that they rested their influence on.

We don't need the myths. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to abandon the supportive structures that have traditionally been provided by religion.

Churches promote ideas about reality but they also encourage personal morality. They provide a socially (at least, "socially" insofaras the church community itself buys into the structure) sanctioned bedrock for personal decisions about the parts of our lives that matter.

Religion mostly makes stuff up, but it DOES provide a way for people honestly face the things in life that are important together.

I think the terminology used to describe such a structure is of practilly no consequence. It's the result that matters.

I think if these "atheist churches" are focussed on things like that, I'm all for 'em...

If one turns up where I live I might start going to one...

[zappaman]

87. Seems like a good idea! n/t