It's gone from annoying, to sad, to pathetic.

[WilliamPitt]

So I'm just saying it, for whatever it's worth.

I was back in Boston this weekend for a birthday trip and some very routine medical stuff, totally checked out from the "mainstream" and here. Got home late this afternoon, unpacked, and flipped on MSNBC. The whole discussion in the one segment I was able to sit through was ZOMG CHRISTIE HILLARY 2016 2016 2016.

Turned on the computer. Checked GD.

Ditto.

Fucking ditto.

I don't know what percentage of you people pride yourselves on being "outside the mainstream" by way of participating here, but if what I'm seeing is any evidence, you have the "mainstream" fishhook buried through your lip and deep into your gumline.

The election in 2014 will choose 100% of the House and 33.3% of the Senate. It will decide, to no small degree, whether this president can get anything done aside from rear-guard back-and-fill actions against avowed domestic terrorists.

The "mainstream" news people clearly don't give a wet fart about that election cycle...maybe because "Hillary" and Christie" are big names that drive ratings...and maybe because the seemingly-eternal low turnout that happens every midterm (because the importance of midterms is chronically under-reported) opens the barn doors for the kind of Tea Party yahoos that make it easier for the "mainstream" news people to do their jobs, because all they're good at is reporting on car wrecks.

Just a theory.

But as I peruse GD, I see a bunch of threads that have lock-stock-and-barrel bought into the 100% fully-mainstream-approved 2016 model, to the vast detriment of the really important elections less than a year away.

Psssst...you're not "underground." You're not "edgy." You're not even interesting.

You're a hooked fish, about to be jerked into the daylight and thrown into a bucket.

Again.

When this forum is only as interesting or relevant as the shit on TV, something has gone badly sideways.

Kindly unfuck yourselves.

Thanks.

[DonCoquixote]

1. amen

my main job is getting rid of my governor, the tea party golden boy Rick Scott. That will be needed to clean up the elections in this state.

[elfin]

2. Thank you

Am thoroughly untucked.

[NoOneMan]

3. LOL

[Wait Wut]

4. It's a lot like the Oscars.

No one cares about the supporting cast and crew, they only care about Best Actor/Actress.

Now, go hug your daughter before you give yourself an aneurism.

P.S. Who's yer pick for the Super Bowl?

[WilliamPitt]

7. Denver/New Orleans

[Wait Wut]

9. Pfft...

...Saints, obviously (my #2 team), but I'm a hold out for the Chiefs (#3 team).

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. heh.

[HappyMe]

6. k&r

[BainsBane]

8. It drives me crazy

and excellent point about the mainstream BS. Maybe that will have an influence on some.

[Initech]

104. Me too!!!

It's this kind of mentality that allowed the GOP to steal the House in 2010 and install a do nothing teabagger regime that got the government shut down in the first place! We can't keep forward thinking about 2016 when we have to take back the House in 2014!

[arcane1]

10. Well-said. I refuse to participate in 2016 discussions. It's bad enough that Christmas comes earlier

we don't need the 2013 election to start right after Halloween 2013!

[DocMac]

115. Listen!!

We need to start our war on Christmas RIGHT NOW!! You are either with us or against us!

[Cleita]

11. What do you expect?

Many of our former, or seldom seen anymore DUers who did think outside of the box or who posted from other interesting sources, that we're not only MSM, don't seem to come around as much. So we are getting mostly regurgitated pap these days.

[laundry_queen]

42. What you just said .

There was a time where I couldn't wait to get on DU to see what it was the MSM wasn't talking about.

Now when I come here, it's all about what the MSM IS talking about.

I personally think it's by design and that's all I'm going to say about that.

[TransitJohn]

72. It's not that they don't come around, it's that

they were tombstoned. DU is what the admins want.

[Cleita]

74. Some just don't come around anymore.

Many haven't been tombstoned. They just left. Others don't post much who used to post good OPs. I don't blame the Ads, but other DUers who bullied them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. This is part of the answer

But I know the owners don't want us either. All I will say in the open. (Why I no longer post original anything here)

[MADem]

12. People like to flap their gums. Start a few threads on House races, get people motivated.

Who cares what people are talking about--it's not like there are a limited number of threads and once they're all used up, no one can start any more. At least they're talking politics and not about breast feeding at the Olive Garden while smoking.

The big news in Boston is that Marty Walsh ...gasp...isn't MARRIED to his girlfriend. Yeah, that's a real chunk of political red meat....

The media doesn't always take a meaningful bite out of the day's news apple. It's a holiday; they're gonna rehash stupid stuff...so what?

Telling people to "unfuck themselves" is just unnecessary, too, IMO. It's not motivating--it's insulting, a put-down, didactic. Mean.

Hide thread is YOUR friend, too....and on that note...

[Number23]

19. I thought the same -- "Telling people to "unfuck themselves" is just unnecessary, too,"

This place is such a mess now. I agree that 2014 is the larger issue but some of the stuff coming out of GD has been nastier and even dumber than usual lately.

The anti-moderate stupidity (complete with a hundred recs), the outright pining and longing for the Good Old Days of racist exclusion and fuckwittery (complete with hundreds of recs) -- this place is just gone.

[MADem]

109. +1 nt

[Half-Century Man]

37. I kinda liked the unfuck part

just saying

[lunasun]

83. +1 and he said to do it kindly so

[MADem]

159. I think it's didactic and a put-down to the members here.

"Listen to me, I know better than you."

This is a political discussion board, and the "hot topics" get a lot of play. That shouldn't be a surprise--Clinton is a HOT ticket, for a lot of reasons--she's a known quantity, she generates news, she's highly experienced in the political arena, and if she runs and wins, she's the first female President of our land. That's a big frigging deal.

If the OP really wants people to talk about Congressional races, he should start some exciting threads about them, that people want to read, not tell us all how "fucked" we are for not doing what he wants, and how we need to, kindly or otherwise "unfuck" ourselves to meet his standard.

It just leaves me cold. Eat yer own damned peas before telling me to eat mine!

I think motivation speaks louder than excoriation and it's more effective, too.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. True; though the gerrymandering of so many House seats doesn't help

It makes unlikely very many seats will change parties in 2014, so the chances of a Democratic majority (which didn't happen with Obama's coat-tails to encourage Democratic turnout in 2012) are slim. And I don't think many are predicting a filibuster-proof Dem majority in the Senate either, so the most likely outcome in 2014 is 'no change'.

But I agree that DU is not 'underground'. When it looks to me, from abroad, that DU has a strange (to me) obsession with a minor story, it normally turns out to be driven by breathless coverage on cable TV.

[TrollBuster9090]

50. True, but the only way to UNGERRYMANDER those districts is to vote IN Democratic State Governments.

Just sayin'

I'm hoping that's the first thing they do in VIRGINIA.

And if you think it's necessary to WAIT FOR THE NEXT CENSUS before you can redraw the House ridings, that's not necessarily true. Remember that the State Republicans in Texas, for purely partisan purposes, re-drew the Texas Congressional boundaries in between census years by lobbying the Department of Justice. The DoJ was run by Republicans at the time, and they (naturally) agreed; and that's how they crafted a 'permanent' Republican majority in Texas.

However, if a State government can lobby the DoJ to re-draw boundaries in between census years for partisan purposes during a Republican Administration, surely Democratic State governments can ask to UNDO This. Especially if they lobby the DoJ to let them re-draw congressional boundaries in a non-partisan way. ie-say "if you let us do this, we'll let the boundaries be re-drawn by a COMPUTER, rather than a bunch of partisan hacks." Or, "We claim that the current house boundaries have been drawn according to partisan interests. If you let us re-draw them, we'll allow the new boundaries to be re-drawn by a panel of non-partisan judges who are not affiliated with any political party." or something like that.

[plantwomyn]

153. I would love to see those computer generated maps.

I think they would make a very poignant image.

One thing I have been frustrated about for a while now is the fact that it doesn't look like we are getting organized to usurp voter suppression. We can't wait until the laws are changed or repealed. We have to organize and make sure that every single Democrat that wants to vote is registered AND has the ID necessary to make their vote counts. We have to get churches and colleges involved in making sure that their parishioners or students have jumped through the hoops set out to keep them from voting. Then we have to get out the vote.

The gerrymandered districts are based on the voter info that existed when they drew the districts. Then they tipped the scale even further by putting up road blocks for as many "undesirable" voters that they could. Now wouldn't it be a thing of beauty to get a HUGE percentage, of those that they thought they could subjugate, to walk into the polling place with valid registration and ID? The lines going around the block and NO ONE leaving until they vote. That's what it will take in 2014 to make a difference.

Christie won his "landslide" with less than a 40% turnout. What would it look like if Democratic turnout was in the upper 90 percentile?

[muriel_volestrangler]

155. There's no 'perfectly fair' algorithm you can give a computer

You have to make some decision for the principles you'll use; I think 'non-partisan judges' are the way to go (in the UK, we have non-partisan commissions, to which individuals and political parties can submit ideas on how to divide up constituencies, but the commissions get the final say; there are guidelines they have to follow, such as 'use existing county, city and borough lines where possible').

For instance, say you have an average population per district of 700,000 for a state, and a city with an urban population of about 1,400,000, and suburban areas around it of another 700,000 or so. Do you divide the city into 2 urban districts, and then surround them with a ring-shaped district consisting entirely of suburbs? Or create 3 districts which all reach into the city center, but also extend out to the suburbs, having 2/3rd population urban, and 1/3 suburban? Does someone in a suburb have more in common with the suburb on the far side of the city, or with the bit of the city right next to them?

[demwing]

14. I know this issue means a lot, and I know you're right

but kindly unkiss my ass

[whathehell]

18. LOL........n/t

[cui bono]

101. Haha!

[Marrah_G]

15. ROFL

You know this is going to get locked/hidden, right? For what it's worth, I agree.

[WilliamPitt]

22. No.

It isn't.

[Marrah_G]

38. I'm wicked surprised....

figured for sure someone would yell Meta and it would get locked

[TrollBuster9090]

56. No, it's not going to get locked. It's going to make the 'trending now' list.

Controversy always does. That's okay. We NEED to shake up the status quo around here.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

16. Hell yeah. :)

[Gidney N Cloyd]

17. Rec & I agree ~99%

For the remaining 1% I grant exception for this past week or so. Since Christie just won re-election I think it's fair to talk about his next move, which seems to be going for the GOP nomination. It's then also understandable that pundits (and a few threads on DU) speculate on who Democrats will put up.

I'm setting this Thursday 11/14/13 as the cutoff, though. Everyone may consider themselves on notice.

[FredStembottom]

102. On 11/15 you can skrooch them!

With my blessing.

[Eddie Haskell]

20. I blame the "anti-conspiracy theory" theory

When thinking outside the box is ridiculed, everyone's thinking will be dictated by the the man with the biggest box.

[bvar22]

51. Not bad, Eddie,...not bad at all.

[font size=3]"When thinking outside the box is ridiculed, everyone's thinking will be dictated by the the man with the biggest box."[/font]

I like.

[Enthusiast]

116. Very good!

[ms liberty]

21. Thank you! n/t

[hunter]

23. Television and radio are propaganda machines, slicker than anything the Soviet Union ever produced.

I don't watch television anymore, not broadcast, not cable, not satellite, none of that. Our television set is for watching movies without any commercial interruptions.

[nightscanner59]

52. Ditto. I killed my teevee long, long ago.

So I come here for news. Sometimes I have to filter through the commentary to find out what happened that way.
Hunter? Like real hunting for elk and such? I might have something of future interest to you: Like the first gay elk hunting camp.

[hunter]

79. I'm a hunter-gatherer by inclination. ( Mostly dumpster diving... :D )

But it's also my name. Like on my fishing or drivers license.

I don't have anything against hunting if the animals are treated with respect, not at all endangered, and consumed as food. Humans are omnivores. I tend more to the vegetarian side, mostly because I don't like factory farming. When I was a kid most of the meat on our dinner table was fish my dad caught, animals relatives had hunted, and farm animals that had lived fairly decent lives. My grandparents were all children of the "Wild West."

I haven't been hunting since I was a kid but I do fish occasionally as a social activity with family.

There are too many people on earth now for everyone to hunt so I'll leave that to the people who are most enthusiastic about it, follow the rules, buy the licenses, and have a very keen interest in protecting the wilderness so their relatives seven generations on down can enjoy the earth we enjoy.

[nightscanner59]

169. Just skimming your journal, we've got a lot in common.

Where in Cali are you? I work, get put up by my company when in California, but never know where next.
But I bought this ranch property in Arizona years ago dirt-cheap. Odd thing is Seligman achieved some actual fame from the kid's movie
"Cars", and property values went up some out there. Can't complain about that.
I have ten working years left before I can collect SSI. I want to make the most of my property out there I can. I've also been homeless, sometimes still have to sleep in my car or tent. I also haven't been hunting in years, never anywhere long enough to deal with a carcass or put up meat anywhere, other than a rabbit or other small game..
Shoot me a note on DU mail. I'm between gigs and on the road/at my ranch so it might be a while that I can respond. I'm at motel room with WiFi tonite but to my ranch today.

[mcar]

24. Thank you

My dear spouse said at dinner a short time ago, and quite innocently as he's not as up on politics as am I, "so I see that it's going to be a Clinton vs. Warren primary."

I refrained from any violent response and asked if he had been watching cable news on his day off. One guess as to the answer. A brief lecture ensued.

[Martin Eden]

25. Gotta Rec this one.

2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014 2014
**NOT**
Hillary Christie Hillary Christie Hillary Christie Hillary Christie Hillary Christie Hillary Christie

[juajen]

26. So True, Will!

[Earth_First]

27. Shit yeah!

K&(effin)R!

[giftedgirl77]

28. K & R

We have bigger fish to fry & that bullshit started Nov 6, 2012.

[Blaukraut]

29. Exactly. We could get President Sanders in '16 and it wouldn't do any good if we don't GOTV in '14

Unless we keep the Senate and regain the House, a Dem President will be toothless.

[Volaris]

53. youre right and it depends on what is the driving issue of the midterms...

If its a Federal minimum wage increase to say,10.00$/HR, the Dems will flip the House and pick up 10 seats in the Senate, gerrymandered districts be damned.
That is all.

[DissidentVoice]

75. It also wouldn't do any good

It also wouldn't do any good if a true, progressive liberal candidate won in '16 and, once in office, went DLC/Third Way/centrist.

[FSogol]

30. Let's see, whinning about DU, playing "I'm more liberal than you," and telling everyone to unfuck

themselves. Yawn. Guess you showed us.

[joshcryer]

32. +1

[WilliamPitt]

33. "whinning about DU"

I'm just a big looser, I guess.

*sigh*

[Skittles]

49. YOU WANT I SHOULD KICK YOUR WHINNING, LOOSER ASS, WILLIAMPITT?

I WILL YOU KNOW

[Whisp]

86. lol. yep. I would take the un from the unfuck yerself witha ricochet.

It appears the school marm is here! we must abide! yep yep

[FSogol]

117. I always have to laugh when someone is wagging their finger at me and going, "tsk, tsk."

[Dawgs]

128. Careful, the hero worship for this one might get you in trouble.

It's like high school all over again.

[FSogol]

130. Perhaps. The sad thing is I agree with his point that 2014 is more important

(right now) than 2016. I can just do without the finger wagging, I'm more liberal than you attitude.

[Dawgs]

131. Sure, but can't we do both?

I mean does talking about 2016 make 2014 less important? I think it means that we're intelligent adults that can discuss many things. And for some of us, it's fun.

And I think if you follow his posts you find that it is hero worship. He could start a post with nt in the title and a blank message and it would still get 100 recs.

And you're right. It is absolutely finger wagging.

[FSogol]

132. Why stop at 2016? In 2028 Martin O'Malley will be finishing his 2nd term, following

his 2 terms as Clinton's VP. O'Malley's vp, Elizabeth Warren will be starting her 2032 campaign. I'm not sure who she should pick for her VP candidate, but I am leaning toward Virginia's Chap Peterson.

[Dawgs]

134. Sure, why not? Talking about future elections still won't affect the 2014 midterms.

Of course, that assumes that we are capable of discussing many topics without it affecting the most important one.

But, maybe you're right and some of us aren't. Apparently you and Pitt think so.

[FSogol]

136. Me and Pitt? LOL.

While I love reading/posting on DU, I don't think it is the most important thing in the world and every post is a life or death struggle for the truth! I'm too busy laughing.

PS. I support DU's right to talk about whatever it wants. How crazy is that?

[Dawgs]

142. So then why the snarky comment about 2028?

[FSogol]

144. Because I thought "why stop at 2016" was funny. n/t

[Dawgs]

145. Sorry - thought we were having a serious discussion. n/t

[FSogol]

147. We did and then there was nothing more to say.

We both disliked the finger wagging.
We both think DU can entertain more than one thought at a time.
We both think 2014 is important.
We both think 2016 is important.
We both agree 2014 comes before 2016.

Have a nice day.

[WillyT]

31. I'd Like To Un-Fuck Myself... What Is Pleasure In Reverse Like ???

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

57. Ever been to a Kenny G concert?

It's something like that...

[WillyT]

61. Good Point...

And yes... I have... NOT pleasurable.

[Skittles]

95. I WILL UNFUCK YOU UP, WILLYT

JUST SAY THE WORD

[Zorra]

34. Yes. It's only 2013. There are 33 states facing Senate elections in 2014.

And Hillary isn't running.

[longship]

35. But... But... But...

"Warren 2016!"

Elizabeth Warren has repeated said that she was not interested and she is going to be one helluva US Senator.

But... But... But... "Warren 2016!!!!"


Shampoo. Rinse. Repeat.

Repeat as necessary for Hillary Clinton. Or Krispy Kreme Kristy, for that matter.

Blargh!!

[TrollBuster9090]

55. I agree with the first two. As for Duran Duran...er...Chris Christie, I actually LIKE it when

Chris Matthews blathers endlessly about Christie being the great moderate hope of the GOP. Almost as much as I like it when he sprays coffee all over the camera lens while he's flogging his book about the two lovable 'Irish guys' named TIP and the GIPPER....


I support AS MUCH BOOSTING of Chris Christie as possible, INCLUDING (if necessary) deliberately sacrificing the New Jersey Governor's Mansion to him. (Which, let's face it, is exactly what happened!) Reason being, I WANT to incite a civil war between Republican crackpots (ie-Paul, Rubio, Cruz etc.) and so called 'moderates' like Christie. I want them to expend political capital fighting each other. So, for that reason....BRING ON THE CHRISTIE WORSHIP in the MSM. As for Hillary worship OR Warren Worship, I think it's a waste of time when we should be organizing for 2014. True enough.

[longship]

58. I bow to your much more eminent logic, TrollBuster.

Touché.


Your point is on target. Bring on the GOP chair throwing contest. We need to spread the meme: Whoever has the most concussions wins.

[TrollBuster9090]

69. We've got to think up some cool names for these GOP WWF contestants.

Cruz, of course, would be the WINGED AVENGER or something.

I just hope Christie wears a mask and a cape.

[longship]

73. Of course, they all have to have tattoos!

Might as well go whole hog on the meme. And lots of sweat.

One question. Who channels Dick the Bruiser?


And who channels The Sheik?

Here photographed with Liberache, of all people, a memetic confluence that undoubtedly nearly ended the universe as we know it.

In my youth I watched these guys wrestle on Saturdays after finishing my morning paper route.

It's a perfect metaphor for the upcoming Republican ideological warfare.

[motocicleta2]

140. https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik

love this guy

[spanone]

36. hid all of them.

let's start fighting at an appropriate time.

[IDemo]

39. "Auto-trash by keyword" is your friend

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=myaccount&sub=trash

Add 'Hillary' and '2016' to 'Palin' and 'Olive Garden' and you're good to go!

[1000words]

54. I had no idea such a thing existed!

Thank you.

[ecstatic]

84. wow! Thanks! nt

[liberal_at_heart]

89. yeah, I'm about to add abortion to my auto trash by keyword list.

[happynewyear]

119. I never knew of this feature either

You've just made my life a lot easier. Thanks again!!

[HappyMe]

121. Good idea.

I might dump 'hillary' in there.

[JVS]

122. Trashing olive garden threads? The software should ban you for doing that!

[IDemo]

126. Unless they include breastfeeding, chain-smoking pit bulls, of course

[JVS]

137. That's more like it!

[csziggy]

40. My main goal for 2014 is to get rid of Steve Southerland (FL - Tea Party)

Gwen Graham, daughter of former Governor and Senator Bob Graham, is running against him. I've already signed up on her web page - if I don't hear back from her campaign by the time I return from my Thanksgiving trip, I'll contact the campaign again - as many times as it takes to get a response. I'm tired of Florida Democrats running lackluster campaigns while the state party eagerly supports DINOs like Crist.

While I want Rick Scott gone I will NOT support A Jeb Bush lackey no matter what letter he puts after his name.

[marble falls]

41. Congress is MUCH more important in 2014 than who the Presidential candidates are in 2016....

once again you got it right, Will.

[kimbutgar]

43. It's as if the MSM as crowned Christie as the president in 2016

Every Sunday show had that fat ass on ( sorry ) kissing his butt. Why wasn't the newly elected Virginia governor on ? Every time I see that big pus Christie on tv I want to puke. His asshole ways may win him votes in new jersey but no amount of lipstick will make that pig attractive to voters in other states. I can't wait for the bloggers to uncover what a slime he really is. And he holds a big responsibility for what happened to NJ in Sandy for not doing disaster planning because he doesn't believe in global warning. NY prepared for the storm he did nothing but flap his big "f"ing mouth and tell people to leave the shores. My question is why didn't Msnbc report on his failures until the day after he was re-elected?

Christie is a big piece of shit.


Sorry for the harsh words and weight comments but when I see him it creates a visceral feeling for me that wants to attack him for his big fat ass.


I can only watch Al, Ed, Chris, and Rachel. But The daytime is corporate media 101. Another good Sunday show is Ring of Fire on Free speech tv.

[left on green only]

92. Good One! Well Spoken!

Chris Christy Reminds me of Joe Pine on hemorrhoids - I mean Joe Scarborough on steroids. Can you imagine the shear magnitude of the seat on the commode that must be required to service that man? Can you picture Christy on a 14 hour flight from New Jersey to Siberia, with no layover in between? Even the oversize door on the head in first class would deny his desperate entreaties. And the poor flight attendants would qualify for disability upon err........"touchdown".

[Katashi_itto]

44. Hillary. Voting for more of the same crap.

[Doctor_J]

45. half of the threads last week had pig boy's name in the subject line

I don't know if duers are brainwashed by big media or just obsessed with the guy, but it's pretty discouraging

[TrollBuster9090]

46. A few too many fish hook analogies (you probably need a vacation), but otherwise accurate.

The two zombie MSM narratives (MYTHS) that drive me crazy are:

1. The GUN LOBBY is too powerful to even bother fighting against, much like Achilles in Homer's Iliad.
and,
2. Only CONSERVATIVES are angry (motivated) enough, and organized enough, and (by extension) 'responsible' enough to come out to vote in mid-term elections, much like only small brained mammals like pit-bulls and Rotweilers are mindlessly aggressive enough to bite all the time.

So, if Achilles is too powerful to fight against, and going out and voting during mid-terms is a sign of belligerent stupidity, why should we want to be part of either one of those futile exercises. We've got better things to do than struggle against the inevitable, right?

Meh! This is bullshit. The GUN LOBBY CAN be defeated, and mid-term elections CAN be won by progressives.

And yes, if even the (slightly) left leaning networks like MSNBC have bought into that mythology, the Democratic UNDERGROUND, at least, should KNOW better.

[northoftheborder]

47. All of the above all day today seasoned with plenty of Palinesque sprinkled throughout.

I can't tell you how sick I am of that woman. Her voice grinds my psyche like Sahara grit on eyeballs.

[Fumesucker]

48. It tends to be the same relatively few posters who start those kinds of food fights

And once a good food fight is started joining in is nearly irresistible for a lot of us.

[gtar100]

59. LOL Indeed, 2014 is exceptionally important for so, *so* many reasons.

So 2016 can wait until...oh, until after 2014 elections. So until then, any threads on potus are not worth the time.

And if we don't get it here, how the hell are we going to convince the apathetic masses.

[LaydeeBug]

60. Ok, **except** CBS aired that false assed Benghazi story to hurt her, and I think it's relevant. nt

[MADem]

160. It's very relevant; and plenty of mouth-breathing nitwits won't appreciate or understand CBS's

retraction.

[meadowlark5]

62. I turn the channel or turn it off as soon as the talking heads start slobering over 2016

It is so far away in the scheme of politics. The media pissing down their leg over Chris Christie running in 2016 because he won the governorship again

And I don't even consider myself out of the box or edgy. I consider myself logical and practical and thinking about the presidency, only, and not how to get rid of as many republicans in the house is fool hearty. That's where the focus should be after the bullshit of the past couple of years.

[KoKo]

63. PSST BACK ATTCHA! We are GROUPS NOW!

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

"GD" isn't what it used to be...But, there are Alternative Resources Here!

Progressive Media Resources Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1269

[ProSense]

64. Solution:

Get Hillary to run for something in 2014...conversation immediately shifts to 2014.

[DeSwiss]

65. K&R

- Still, I'm still holding out for a revolution, myself. Anything less than that would be a total waste of time.

[Zen Democrat]

66. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Message control+ Partisan site= what you are seeing on GD

Underground it is no more. It has not been for a good while, at least 2008.

I said as much in a post that was throughly attacked by the usual crowd at times you hang out with.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024017088

I added my local elections, to whit they do not matter to DU anyway, so that is what it is.

I expect 2014 to leave no real mark here. Hell, I don't expect my own local elections to make any presence either. All that matters to the perception managers is Hillary 2016. You think it is bad, just wait.

[rudolph the red]

88. Maybe I am missing something here,

but I read the thread that you link and I don't see any replies that attack your OP, in fact, I see several very supportive replies. I'm new here so maybe I'm just not picking up on some subtle nuances, but it looks pretty civil to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. You are missing some of it

And I know the civil ones who you refer to. Those have nothing to do with a long history here.

[JVS]

93. +1

[liberal_at_heart]

98. +1

[passiveporcupine]

68. K&R Thank you Will

I hope Dems can pull it together and really do a huge voter drive for the 2014 elections. I sure haven't heard anyone talking about it yet, and it's too damn close already. I see a lot of threads wasting time on silly, petty and/or hateful stuff aimed at republicans, that is nothing more that knee-jerk bashing, and isn't really doing any good except to pat each other on the back about how much we hate or despise republicans. The republicans are not here learning about what they are doing wrong...they are all over at Fox News learning how to hate us.

How's that working out for ya? How is wasting your energy in hating anyone going to help this country? How about working for positive change instead of just screaming about how bad everything is and why it sucks.

Good managers tell their employees their door is open, but please don't come to tell me about your problems. Bring me solutions to your problems. I wish I'd see more people here doing that. Revving each other up to be more aggressive about getting dems to vote. And I don't mean by posting here. The people here are probably mostly voters. The non-voters are too apathetic to even waste time on the internet to learn what is important. Those are the people we need to reach. Get involved with your local dem campaign office and volunteer. It really is a shame that so few people in this country don't participate in the one process we have that can actually change things in government. We have the power...we just don't use it. If you can volunteer to drive someone to vote who can't get their on their own...do it. If you can talk your own family and friends into making the effort to vote...do it.

Just do it!

[MineralMan]

133. In Minnesota, Democratic PAC ads calling out

John Kline, one of the Repug Congressmembers we have a chance to replace, for his obstructionism. It's starting now, and will continue until the 2014 election.

GOTV 2014!

[passiveporcupine]

168. Good work!

Keep it up!

[MisterP]

70. is the MSM's Hil-vs-Christie '16 talk for the generals or the primaries?

[TransitJohn]

71. Good post, Will. +1

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. One reason I don't participate as much as I used to

is that this site has become a fount of conventional "wisdom."

Of course, there's always been some of that. I recall the 2004 election, when there were whole threads that were like, "Kerry-Dean," "No! Dean-Kerry!" "No, Dean-Kucinich." "No, Kerry-Edwards!" "No, Edwards-Kerry!"



Congressional elections are just as important as presidential ones, and state elections have even more effect on your daily life.

[MannyGoldstein]

77. The NSA told Hillary that you posted this

It won't go well.

[kestrel91316]

78. I think, among other things, that it's just plain rude to spend all our time eagerly anticipating

our next president (who hasn't even declared) and either ignoring our newly re-elected president or bitching endlessly about him, take your pick.

It's instant gratification run amok.

[Whisp]

105. 'all' of our time? really?

I think that may be a bit of exaggeration there.

And let's talk about rude. Rude has been directed at The President of the United States for years now. Here. Every Day.

But now Rude is Out? Sorry, not complying to The New Rules!

(not saying you were, I don't think you are that sort).

[Liberal_Dog]

80. K & R

Yeah, this 2016 nonsense drives me crazy too.

[NealK]

81. K&R n/t

[LongTomH]

82. Sir! Unfucking! Sir!

[cry baby]

85. I don't even read those threads...they're boring, at least until much closer to 2016.

It's much like seeing Christmas decorations before Halloween...it just makes one sick of the subject way too early.

[Whisp]

87. coming from a salmon that always goes downstream.

heh.

[JNelson6563]

91. Here in fascist Michigan

I couldn't agree with you more! Our state has been over-run by fascists and so have others but so many DUers seem oblivious. It's all about the "horse race for the WH"!1!

Pathetic.

Julie

[Whisp]

96. Where were you in 2010, Will?

I can't quite recall if you got on the Jane Hamsher bandwagon of denigrating the President and Dems or the one that actually worked for Dems and in what way.

Sorry, I'm oldish, can't remember things sometimes. Seems like it's difficult to peg what you really believe in, with consistency.

[Bluenorthwest]

127. It is worth noting that your posts are virtually the only responses that are presonal

swipes at Will. Why on Earth would you see that as appropriate or fitting? What do you think gives you standing to do such personal commentary directed at DUers by name? What do you think DU would be like if everyone indulged in that sort of thing?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

97. META!!! IBTL

Just kidding. But I can't believe no other posts applied the meta label to your rant re: follow the leader of FU posts.

[blkmusclmachine]

99. Thx.

[joshcryer]

100. Oh lord, as if the talking heads never drove the narrative here.

This is a total joke of a post made to trigger peoples emotions but it doesn't provide any substantiative insight.

[Lugnut]

103. A-fricken-men!

We have a lot to do in 2014. I don't give a rat's ass about 2016, Christie and Hillary.

K&R!

[PBass]

106. I agree we have other, more pressing things to talk about,

and 2014 looms large.

But there is no denying that Hillary Clinton is one of the most widely recognized and popular politicians in the country. That counts for a lot!!!

As for 2014, Dems can theoretically KICK MAJOR ASS at the polls next Fall, and still not take back the House. The districts are gerrymandered all to hell, at the moment. DON'T GET DISCOURAGED if the GOP still retains the House - it's just a matter of time. And in 2016, TEN GOP Senate seats are up for grabs.

EVERYTHING is headed OUR way, if we can just stay engaged for the long haul.

[Nay]

156. Not only are districts gerrymandered all to hell, but the national Dem

party organizations don't support Dem candidates (either financially or personally) in many, many cases. I know I've beaten this drum here in many posts, but it still bears repeating:

In VA in 2012, the very credible challenger to the hated Eric Cantor, Powell, was polling 40% way before the election. He got NO financial help, although he did ask repeatedly. In the end, he got 39% of the vote by spending about $450,000; Cantor's war chest was $10 million! This guy could have won if he had had ANY financial support from ANY large Dem donor or Dem organization. Why was aid not forthcoming? I have no idea what the national Dem organizations actually do, but they certainly aren't helping anywhere with local and state races. Why is this? Until we answer this question, we will keep on losing.

As an additional irritation, it was reported here on DU that the VA Chair of the VA Dem Party issued a call for donations to keep the recount going here in VA. My response was: WHAAAAAAT??? How come the national Dem orgs, which are 10 miles away in DC, aren't shoveling money, personnel at this issue immediately? Why do voters have to pony up $5 donations to keep elections honest??? What the hell is this? Can anyone find an answer? In 2000, the Pubs sent money, disruptors and screamers to Miami to STOP a recount, and the Dems can't even send some money and people 10 miles down the road?

Does everyone understand that there is something seriously wrong with this picture, and that until this is fixed, us running around trying to get Aunt Mabel to vote is worthless? We are focusing on the wrong problem!

[MADem]

162. That is just not true.

Democratic leadership in both the House and the Senate have PACs up that help to fund Democratic candidates in House and Senate races.

http://www.dscc.org/

http://dccc.org/

And they are working the room, too, with those rubber chicken dinners. They don't fund primary campaigns--they do help primary winners, though.

Also, individual Senators and Representatives have their own PACs, that they use to help up-and-coming candidates break out. As an example--people here just love to shit on Clinton, but her HILLPAC helped a lot of people get elected. See:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cycle=2002&cmte=C00363994

You can pick the year for the time she had that PAC up and running, and see to whom she gave the money she raised.

She's not the only one who has done this, either.



Any time there is drama, like what is happening in VA, political organizations USE it to advance their cause. Have you ever heard the expression "Fast dimes are better than slow dollars?" Those five dollar donations do two things BESIDES add money to the coffers--they identify people who care about a particular issue, and they develop a list of people who can be tapped in outyear elections for money, volunteer efforts, etc. It's like a Christmas card list on steroids....

[Nay]

164. Mr. Powell stood on my doorstep and told me had not been able to get

any money for his campaign. He's a lawyer, and put up a few hundred thousand himself and also had small donations from folks like me. No one from DC stumped for him, or even gave him the time of day. If he had been some crank, I'd understand; but he was polling well.

Personally, I think it's disgusting for political organizations to use this 'drama' to fatten their coffers and their mailing lists, but I understand that's just the way it's done. But you can hardly blame us Virginians out here saying to ourselves "WTF??" when we get panhandled for five bucks when 1) they should have the money already, and 2) we suspect what money we do give is not used to help challengers like Mr Powell. I certainly will never make blanket donations to Dem orgs to use however they see fit. I will only donate to individuals I support.

[MADem]

165. Look, how can I put this in a way that does not sound dismissive or rude?

There's only so much money to go around.

The money is given to people who the PAC owners think have a real shot, who can WIN. They may not win the first time, but they have a chance.

I don't know your guy, but I suspect he couldn't win. He may have been "polling well" but someone with an eye for these things looked at it and said, "The other guy has ten million, and we don't have ten million to throw at this seat. And if we did, the other guy would raise ANOTHER ten million, and if we don't have ten million in the first place, we sure as hell don't have twenty million. We can take ten million bucks and throw it into twenty other races and get more bang for our buck than trying to shift an entrenched, popular-amongst-his-wingnut-following, senior GOP leader who WILL have every advantage brought to bear if he's even slightly challenged.

You might not like this truth, but that's what it is.

I live in a blue state where there are some districts where they can't even get a Republican to run. It's an exercise in futility. The candidates run unopposed.

Please look at the HILLPAC data I provided, go down all the years and see who HRC gave her dough to--she supported Tammy Baldwin in her unsuccessful run, but she wasn't stupid--she saw that Baldwin had staying power and wasn't going away.

You do what you want with your money. I'm not urging you to give dough to anyone who doesn't meet your standards. I'm simply trying to refute your assertion that no one ever gets any help in these races. They DO get help, if the people running the PACs think they have a hope in hell of winning or making an impact downstream. They don't just hand out money to people who will try like hell and get crushed.

FWIW, they don't jump out and help in primary season. Their MO is to support candidates who are competing in general elections.

Delete those "Gimme Five" emails if you don't like them--they're not targeting you, obviously. But they won't go away...they ARE targeting people who respond viscerally to the issue raised, and whose ire is raised so that they DO give over the five or ten bucks. And everyone who sends in the five bucks is added to a list of potential future donors, of people who can be mobilized over similar issues.

It's how these things are done. Don't shoot the messenger, now--it's just the way it is.

The best way to get a PAC to support a candidate is for the candidate to conduct a grassroots campaign. He or she needs volunteers who go door to door and conduct an "in person" campaign to counter ads. There needs to be a ton of GOTV and huge turnout for the candidate, and then, maybe, next time, they'll back the person. But they don't like going up against million dollar babies--it's just too expensive and the money is better used in competitive venues.

[Nay]

166. You may be entirely correct and, if so, the way things are done is a huge

part of the problem. But thanks for your detailed explanation.

[MADem]

167. I don't disagree that the way things are done is part of the problem.

But both sides don't want publicly funded campaigns---they want the opportunity to say that money equals speech, and he or she with the most buckaroos wins.

It's hard to remain idealistic in that kind of atmosphere; I tend to take the cynical view that our assholes are WAY better than theirs, and I want a Supreme Court picked and confirmed by our assholes! I think it's our only hope!

[mfcorey1]

107. There is a big media effort to pit Hillary against Warren and create a rift

in the party that does not exist.

[fadedrose]

110. I think the Clinton forces will create one

I wonder who started the Biden getting dumped story . . . . as soon as I heard it, I thought of her fanatical supporters who sometimes, well, never mind

[JohnnyRingo]

108. Thanx for setting everyone straight.

Sometimes people just need someone to pass judgment and set them back on track. I'm sure things will be more to your liking now that you lorded your final word over them.

Keep up the good work.

[Telegram Sam]

111. There is some value to '16 GE discussion...

As it relates to Chris Christie and his probable '16 bid: those conversations are mostly taking place in the context of his successful gov campaign. Think of it as an early vetting process; most of what I'm hearing focuses on the fact that CC is not quite as moderate as the perception and details his conservative record. The sooner this "front runner" is exposed, the less we have to worry about a GWB second coming.

[oberliner]

112. It's good that you are not at all full of yourself

If you were, these posts would be a lot more irritating.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

113. "you people"?

and yet, here "we" are, discussing Hillary 2016.

a big net catches many fish.

[Grateful for Hope]

114. Yes

K&R

[FarPoint]

118. Start a new Board...

A new Democratic Board in the image of olde DU discussion. I know many olde DU'ers would follow. I would.

[Enthusiast]

120. I agree. K&R......nt

[Nine]

123. All the lectures in the world won't stop this.

Even if 95% of genuine posters decide to forget about 2016 and focus on 2014, there are still going to be disruptors who try to stir things up. There's one tearing up GD as we speak.

And in any case, 95% of posters won't stop talking about 2016 because no one wants to unilaterally disarm. I'm not thinking about 2016 but I like the Clintons in general and I hate the way they are bashed around here constantly. I feel the need to speak out when I see that happening because I don't want the loudmouths taking over while the rest of us do the "classy" thing and remain silent.

The only thing that will stop this happening is a rule from On High - either no bashing of potential 2016 candidates or no discussion of 2016 elections until after 2014 elections. The first one is the one that I would prefer.

[LuvNewcastle]

124. Thanks for saying this, Will.

There is life between elections, everybody.

[scheming daemons]

125. agreed, Will. ALL of our focus should be '14

Speculating on '16 is counterproductive.

Plenty of time for that after the midterms.

[fredamae]

129. You're Correct

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm guilty also---
I actually had a similar thought yesterday--watching a bit of MSM, noticing also there was zero discussion about 2014....

Nice way to distract this "squirrel" ---Odds are "They're" working furiously to get big GOP money/candidates in the states and we're fast-forwarding to 2016 as if '14 is already gone.

(An aside but an Important heads up for Oregon in 2014)
I was also in deep conversation yesterday with a friend re: Our US Senator - Merkley - Is in a vulnerable place. We need to work very hard to assure his victory.
We've already got at least One ALEC member-Jason Conger, up against him out of our state house...and the others are lining up like it's the 2010 GOP Primaries'---
The bad thing is - folks are seemingly passive re: Protecting this Democrat--because he's supposedly "Safe"--Wherever That "rumor" came from.......Trust me-It's Not a Rumor. the threat to his seat is real. For one thing, before Merkley this seat was held for Years by the GOP (Sen Smith) and They Want It Back.
You make a great point.

[The Time is Now]

135. Here's the perfect example

For anyone who missed The Daily Show last night.

This shows the results of catching up on one's sleep during off year elections:

Voter Motivation

[mountain grammy]

138. The 16% of registered voters who were against the gun laws all voted yes to recall as

the 80% who favored the new laws didn't vote at all.

ALL ELECTIONS ARE IMPORTANT. ALWAYS, ALWAYS VOTE. THE EXTREMISTS LEARNED THIS A LONG TIME AGO. WHEN WILL THE REST OF US WAKE UP. 2014 NATIONAL AND LOCAL ELECTIONS COME FIRST. GOTV.

[MineralMan]

139. K&R, and that's rare.

GOTV 2014!

[snooper2]

141. I give you 6.4 stars out of 10

FYI, the main reason you made it over 5 stars is because you didn't use "derp"

[bobGandolf]

143. Damn!!

That was so well stated! Kind of thought I was weird wondering why everyone was yapping about 2016. The mid-term election is so important to democrats, and it just seems it's kind of an afterthought.
I also blame the media for perpetuating that mindset.
Our party should be doing what the teabags are doing...developing voter lists, starting work on building there "get out the vote" machine, etc, etc. In the past we've waited too long to get things going, and it showed. The repugs have developed a hell of voter base for mid-terms and state elections. You throw in all the obstacles they are putting up to suppress democratic voters, and we'll be in big trouble come 2014.

[Festivito]

146. Excuse me. DU FOSTERS a RW echo chamber by its hiding posts.

One can hide a post, hide a user, auto-hide posts SO POSTS ARE NOT SEEN by good DUers.

So, there is NO RESPONSE by good DUers.

So, DU then looks like a RW echo chamber.

I've asked the admin to give a highlighter by poster function INSTEAD of deleting by poster function. But, to no avail.

You cannot expect a bunch of newbies and occasional readers to handle all the influx of trolls because the website ends up hiding the knowledgeable and capable DUers from helping.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

148. Will, this place hasn't been "underground" -

in a very, very long time. The vast majority of the "underground" population has been pizza'd, chased off, or left when it became clear this was strictly a Party operation or because they were sick of the only options being the same ol' same ol'. The rest of us do what we can with the limitations the site/the /Party/the "hooked fish" allow.

[Mosaic]

149. There are places you can find where..

free speech reigns. People are creative, thinking of the future, and amazingly free of corporate brainwashing. Seek them out, good luck!

[questionseverything]

150. some of us are concentrating on saving 2013

ya know there is a election upset going on in virginia as i font...and i do not understand why you have not rec'd any of those threads?

getting out the vote is part of the job,making sure votes are counted has to be the other half

[libdem4life]

151. I don't have a dog in the 2014 hunt and I'm a confessed political left junkie. Nor do I understand

the hype about trashing and hiding threads. Why should I hit Ignore? If I'm not personally interested in what the poster is talking about and do not have or want to have a certain position, I'm free not to click on the url, or to quickly glance at the responses, and proceed as per my own choice. That would be either reading, commenting, or clicking on something else. It's not that hard.

What I hear is the only thing the current detractors want to talk about are the state races. 2014. Good. 2016. Bad. That's it. Can't do both without somehow spoiling some else's experience, who has the right/duty to not read, engage or react. I thought this was a Discussion Board. What possible interesting Discussion can I have with someone on the races in Nebraska, or Arkansas et al? That's what I thought the State Groups were for.

I'm not sure who these popular posters are because it doesn't matter to me. Nor am I sure why, judging from OP, that apparently they seem to want all agreement and all support all the time. If someone answers in disagreement, or baiting, then resist responding and move on.

And as for the MSM, especially MSNBC...that's where a lot of us get our news and keep up. Of course those are items of discussion and meaning to many of us. I'm not smart enough to think up brilliant, entertaining, enticing brand new ideas/arguments in politics without outside information.

Has to be something I'm not getting. I appreciate the Forum, I like the idea of browsing through hundreds of ideas and thoughts, picking those that interest me, sometimes just read, sometimes post, sometimes agree, sometimes disagree.

FWIW...MHO

[lastlib]

154. We need to start YESTERDAY...

...banging the pans for what could be vastly more important than 2016--2014. Like Mr. Pitt said, this midterm will have everything to do with whether Pres. Obama and the Dems can get anything accomplished in the remaining two years, and that's going to set the stage for whether we can retain the White House and the Senate in 2016, and thereby determine our future agenda. If we fuck up 2014 like we did 2010, we are fucking ourselves and our children and our country for a generation. If we don't reclaim the agenda from the corporatists now, when will we? 2016? Don't make me laugh. Let's get on it, folks!

[blue14u]

157. While I agree we need

to have some ideals for 2016, and who will get nominated for POTUS,

BY FAR, ,2014 IS the most important race we will vote in in the coming

year. 2014 NOT 2016.. We have plenty of time to work on 2016, BUT 2014 is less than a year away!!!

I enjoy campaigning always have, BUT to focus on 2016 and HLC or whomever right now

is a loosing game to me. Until we have the house back...17 seats and more

NOTHING, I mean NOTHING is more important than 2014!!! We must get out and

work our fannies off and get out and VOTE and get friends and family to the

polls to VOTE 2014.. If we do that, we will win 2014 and 2016.. No more skipping elections. NO MORE OF THAT,
because your guy didn't get on the ticket or whatever your grievance is... I have notes posted on my mirror in

my bathroom, on my front door, my fridge , on my calender, every where I look I see a note that says VOTE!!!

Please do the same, have tunnel vision, have a plan in place where VOTING 2014 is

already on the calendar, and NOTHING and no one, will get in the way!!!

We can do this.. we can do it, and must do it. Focus your energy on 2014, and then 2016 will be easy... VOTE just go VOTE 2014.

Thanks for letting me rant, I will keep on ranting until we all go VOTE 2014!!! Thank you very much for your cooperation in VOTING 2014!!!!!

NO EXCUSES!!!!!!

[Coyotl]

158. K&R. Give this some recs, good people!

[mahina]

161. Lots of meaningful posts get no response.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024022863

Next time I have to choose between keeping DU in the loop and going for a swim, I'm getting my fins.

Glad for your post Will. Imua. (Onward)

[rhett o rick]

163. You are making a couple of assumptions that I think are wrong.

You assume that since we are discussing the presidential race in 2016 that we arent paying attention to local races. My Congress Critters havent started their campaigns yet and challengers havent filed.

And you assume that it isnt critical that the left start as early as possible to find a progressive candidate to defeat the corporate favorite that already has a running start. Of course the Ms. Clinton supporters would love to see the left wait until after 2014 to begin their search.

If you are worried about another 2010 then tell those wishy-washy centrists to commit to voting DEmocratic.