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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI've Got Whooping Cough. Thanks a Lot, Jenny McCarthy.
How responsible are these non-vaccinating parents for my pertussis? Very. A study recently published in the journal Pediatrics indicated that outbreaks of these antediluvian diseases clustered where parents filed non-medical exemptionsthat is, where parents decided not to vaccinate their kids because of their personal beliefs. The study found that areas with high concentrations of conscientious objectors were 2.5 times more likely to have an outbreak of pertussis. (To clarify: I was vaccinated against pertussis as a child, but the vaccine wears off by adulthood, which, until recently, was rarely a problem because the disease wasn't running rampant because of people not vaccinating their kids.)
So thanks a lot, anti-vaccine parents. You took an ethical stand against big pharma and the autism your baby was not going to get anyway, and, by doing so, killed some babies and gave me, an otherwise healthy 31-year-old woman, the whooping cough in the year 2013. I understand your wanting to raise your own children as you see fit, science be damned, but you're selfishly jeopardizing more than your own children. Carry your baby around in a sling, feed her organic banana mash while you drink your ethical coffee, fine, but what gives you denialists the right to put my health at riskto cause me to catch a debilitating, humiliating, and frightening cough that, two months after I finished my last course of antibiotics (hows that for supporting big pharma?), still makes me convulse several times a day like some kind of tragic nineteenth-century heroine?
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115551/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccination-movement-blame-whooping-cough
Sometimes craziness kills.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Thanks for posting.
Fuck the antivaxxers.
Sid
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I did, and yet you have falsely accused me of being an "antivaxxer."
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Not getting a booster is a triple no-no.
hatrack
(59,439 posts)But I can here.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)I had whooping cough 54 years ago, even though I had been immunized as an infant. When I read about the resurgance of whooping cough, I got a booster shot in 2010.
If you know there's whooping cough in your area, get a booster shot!
Pathwalker
(6,596 posts)Easier than taking responsibility for one's own failures, after all. My youngest son is unable to take this particular vaccine, due to seizures as an infant, but I made certain he received all the other vaccines. If you get whooping cough, don't blame me or my son - the State health Dept. refused to give it to him, and ordered a special vaccine without the whooping cough vaccine, and even covered the cost. Not everything is as black and white as it seems, but people need to get ALL the vaccines they can, this whole anti-vaccine movement is beyond stupid - it's dangerous.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)as your son.
wasn't allowed when I was an infant... seizures.
I remember when I was growing up, my great grandmother always used to joke 'got that whoopin' cough!' anytime id cough at all..
she grew up in the 20s..
I remember my mom not thinking it was a very funny joke.. lol
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)It's those that choose not to vaccinate due to ignorance and misinformation that are the problem, like Mrs. McCarthy.
And they put folks that are in you a d your sons position at serious risk.
Pathwalker
(6,596 posts)My own grandmother took my cousin Frankie(RIP) to our neighbor's house to show them what a polio survivor endured when they refused to vaccinate their children for polio when the vaccine first came out. Seeing him in those leg braces changed their minds. It is the responsibility of every adult who CAN, and doesn't wish to get a childhood disease to get their booster shots so they don't get them, instead of blaming a stupid sellebrity.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)She put an unfounded fear into people that vaccines were causing autism that STILL persists. She gets the blame.
elleng
(130,146 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)The OP is talking about the 'herd' or 'community" immunity, a well-researched and well-proven strategy that is now NOT working because people like Jenny McCarthy go on TV and espouse the evils of vaccination because her son is autistic, and she needs something to accuse of her son's problem, so she decides it was the vaccine. The CDC debunked that hypothesis in 2011, but Oprah still had her on and validated her ramblings, thus putting millions of children at risk because parents "don't trust the government".
The few isolated cases where children are not give a vaccine due seizure history and the chance of febrile seizures likely has no effect on the overall population. However, if Jenny keeps this stuff up, we could be in for some problems.
Pathwalker
(6,596 posts)not just one blathering fool. And anyone who does not vaccinate their child because she ran her mouth abut something she is very, very wrong about is an utter idiot who deserves the same, if not more blame being given to Ms. McCarthy. She isn't the one spreading those diseases, the stupid, stupid fools who are dumb enough to go along with her are the ones putting us ALL in danger. Seriously, why the hell would anyone with even half a brain take her word over the millions of scientists and doctors who KNOW so much more about this subject? It's as stupid as believing an oil company executive over a climatologist regarding climate change. I would like to repeat, I am NOT anti-vac, in fact, I've already gotten my flu vaccine for this year. You're preaching to the choir here, I just don't think we should give ALL the blame to Jennie, spare some for the dumb, dumb parents.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Stupidity and the limitations that come with being stupid.
Edit for fat fingers on a tablet
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The stupid leading the stupid, you could call it...
Maraya1969
(22,441 posts)I think about that one every once in a while and always forget to find out what it was.
catrose
(5,048 posts)but my memory is a treacherous lying bastard.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Yes, they could catch the disease, but it wasn't "going around" because of childhood vaccinations.
Now, the problem is your last sentence. People generally are not aware that whooping cough is in their area and don't get a TDAP.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)When I read about outbreaks in CA and TX, I got a booster. It doesn't take long for these illnesses to travel east.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I didn't get a TDAP until I had kids. That would mean I was about 13 years overdue.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)..."Have to get a booster shot tomorrow..." and the next day you're coughing. My point being, focusing on her and the booster shot deflects the issue: Why should we all have to get booster shots because there's an outbreak of something that years ago there were little to no outbreaks of? Why should an elderly person, who may not have heard of this because they fall asleep during the newsand so don't get the booster shot--end up getting this and dying when ten years ago that would have never happened? And what about those poor kids whose parents didn't get them shots because they were oh-so-sure it caused autism? Whooping cough kills. It kills little children.
This woman's point is valid, even if she was negligentwhich we don't know if she was.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)You need to blame everyone who is not current on their immunizations (for whom they are not contraindicated).
The "herd" doesn't become immaterial at age 18. You don't think this un(der)vaccinated woman can spread pertussis among similarly un/under-vaccinated individuals just as easily as the toddler set?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)"If you know there's whooping cough in your area, get a booster shot!"
This requires there to first be an outbreak. You can't know about an outbreak before it happens, so telling all the people infected in the outbreak that they should have known they would be the outbreak and gotten booster shots in advance would be... silly.
Yes, after there'a an outbreak people in the are should take additional precautions, but a fat lot of good that does the initial infected group.
The article writer does not make it clear at what point in any outbreak they were infected. Or if they got it while travelling perhaps. If they were part of the first group in their area infected, or got it travelling through an area they weren't aware an outbreak had occurred in, the booster shot criticism doesn't really apply to them does it?
Let's not shift blame from the anti-vax idiots who are causing this mess.
(And not, that doesn't apply to the people who have legitimate medical reasons their kids couldn't get any given vaccine. Those few isolated people don't cause an issue for maintaining herd immunity until the idiots pile on withholding the vaccines from their kids for no reason other than random conspiracy-theory fueled paranoia.)
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Your immune system can still be overwhelmed, even if it holds the roadmap to attacking and killing the invasion. All it takes is some stress and even a robust healthy immune system can get trampled.
The vaccine just teaches your immune system what to kill. Doesn't do anything else.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)about five years ago now, and I'll hopefully remember to get one five years hence.
If you are personally able to get vaccines and don't, you cannot blame anyone else if you get the disease you could have been vaccinated against.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)with herd immunity such measures shouldn't be necessary.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)for the babies who are too young to get the vaccines yet.
But an adult who wants to avoid getting whooping cough should get the vaccine. This writer didn't even bother to mention that there was a vaccine available to her that she didn't get. She'd rather just complain about other people's reliance on herd immunity. (which is what anyone is doing who doesn't get their children or themselves vaccinated)
Warpy
(110,909 posts)unless they are going to be around infants under the age at which they can be vaccinated.
In other words, the adult vaccine is new and not yet widespread.
The bottom line is that antivax hysterics are causing a lot of other people damage while exposing their children to "usual childhood diseases" that can be deadly.
I'm just waiting for diphtheria to come back. Seeing the reality of that illness just might make a few of those idiots change their alleged minds.
I got whooping cough before the adult booster came out. It hung on for a solid six months. Waking up out of a sound sleep in laryngospasm is not pretty and it should not happen to anyone.
Religious exemptions should be issued only to people like the Amish, whose children go to local religious schools and have very limited contact with other children.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)You could have protected yourself by getting vaccinated and would not have (most likely) developed pertussis.!!
Why depend on other sectors of the population to keep you healthy/disease free ???
http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/VPD-VAC/pertussis/default.htm
If your are convulsing or having seizures several times a day you really need to contact your provider
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)Mz Pip
(27,404 posts)Even if you are an adult. I had mine a few years ago and a glad I did.
It sounds like she didn't because she didn't think it was necessary, not because she was listening to Jenny McCarthy.
This reminds me that I need to get my flu shot.
DemoTex
(25,371 posts)A retired airline pilot acquaintance of mine died of shingles complications at age 74 a few weeks ago. I had shingles at age 19 in 1967 (and again in 1994), and I never want THAT again.
Mz Pip
(27,404 posts)They recommend it when you turn 60. However, my poor son got it when he was 31 the week before his wedding. On his face no less. What a disaster. Fortunately he responded to the treatment and hasn't had any recurrence.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)March 24, 2011 - People age 50 and older can now get Merck's Zostavax shingles vaccine, the FDA today ruled.
The vaccine already was approved for people age 60 and older. The approval is based on a Merck clinical trial that showed the vaccine to be about 70% effective in preventing shingles in the younger age group.
The study also found that even when vaccinated 50-somethings did get shingles, they suffered far less pain and far shorter bouts of the painful, sometimes disabling disease.
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/news/20110324/fda-shingles-vaccine-ok-at-age-50-and-up
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)TBF
(31,921 posts)and I am late 40s now. Does that mean I could also get shingles as an adult? I will have to ask my primary about this - my next lab check is in about 2 mos. so I will have to write this down.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Shingles is caused by the varicella zoster virus, or VZV. This is the same virus that causes chickenpox. VZV stays in your body after causing chickenpox. If you have had chickenpox in the past, then VZV is inside you. For reasons that are not fully known, the virus can reactivate years later and cause shingles.
http://www.cdc.gov/features/shingles/
TBF
(31,921 posts)I think I was probably re-vaccinated for that when I was pregnant but not entirely sure. I probably could use both. I hate this anti-vax movement. We really don't need these diseases back.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)MissMillie
(38,454 posts)I had shingles when I was 13.
Now I need to ask my doctor if there's any chance I can get them again.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)pipi_k
(21,020 posts)in disbelief over something posted by a SIL on Facebook the other day regarding the flu vaccine.
All the usual anti-vaccine shit.
Mr Pipi is also on her friends list, saw the link she posted, and announced that he would NEVER get another flu shot again (even though he's gotten them for a long, long time). Which is scary because he's older, and is at risk because of health issues.
Thank goodness for DU, and the information people post here.
I told him it was anti-vaxxer bullshit and found articles refuting the claims. He read them and now feels better about the flu shot.
So the part that has me shaking my head is how my SIL has connected her yearly UTI's to the flu shots. She hasn't gotten a flu shot this year, and lo and behold, no UTI either!!!
Whether they're connected or not, I have no idea.
But even, by some bizarre chance that they are connected...
a UTI is nothing compared to influenza that could potentially turn deadly and (the two times I've had it anyway) could lay a person up for weeks. Not in bed, but feeling awfully shitty.
ugh.
but anyway, thanks again to DU for often being a place of sanity and reason.
In some respects.
3catwoman3
(23,815 posts)...thinks urinary tract infections are caused by the flu shot? Oy!!! Or did she mean URI - upper respiratory infection?
Either way, she is woefully misinformed. The flu shot is a killed virus vaccine. You cannot catch ANYTHING from it.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)she did write URI, not UTI.
But yeah, in any event, she's equating one with the other, which is wrong.
AND...she's a nurse!
Granted, she works for a dermatologist, but still...
It's frightening to see the level of ignorance that abounds in the world.
I'm really disappointed in her...always thought she was smarter than that.
3catwoman3
(23,815 posts)...pediatric nurse practitioner, specifically, and one of the biggest parts of my job is education - trying to help people let go of cherished but incorrect beliefs, or learn something new to help them feel more comfortable and confident dealing with stuff at home.
I always cringe when I hear fellow nurses (or other health professionals) perpetuating erroneous health information.
quakerboy
(13,901 posts)Catch something from a flu shot, that is.
First, there's the immune response to the shot. Not technically the same as actually catching the flu, but for some of us who's immune responses tend to be a bit over hyped, the difference can feel less than important. Essentially like the symptoms of having the flu, but shorter lived. Ive had that happen a few times with flu shots. That's happened to me on 3 of the 7 flu shots I've gotten. It seems to last 24-48 hours till my body decides it hasn't really been invaded by foreign organisms and there's no actual need to stay on a war footing.
Stepping past that, however, my understanding is that there are some people carrying relatively benign forms of flu in their mucous membranes. However, when they come in contact with the dead virus in the vaccine, on rare occasions the live will co-opt some of the rna and become an less benign version of the flu virus. Or so it was explained to me when I got very sick directly after a flu shot, apparently with one of the strains i had been vaccinated against. By what I was told, it is extremely rare, to the point of not being an issue if you haven't had it happen, and even if you had, the chances are good that it wouldn't happen again with a different strain of flu in future vaccinations.
I dont know if this applies to flu vaccines, but I also understand that some vaccines use a weakened (not dead) version of whatever they are vaccinating against.
All of that said... Get your vaccinations unless you have a damn good reason not to. Once my ACA coverage kicks in, you better believe that I will be asking a DR about a variety. For instance, I never had the chicken pox, and the idea of encountering that as an adult, now that the majority of my friends kids are reaching school age, scares me quite a bit. I hear there's a vaccine now.
I also read a while back that somewhere in Europe they are working on or may have figured out a vaccine against the main cause of Dental Carries. That seems like a brilliant idea, and I need to remember to go look it up and see what the status of that is.
SunSeeker
(51,368 posts)I got my kid vaccinated when he was a baby, but now I better go in for a booster for myself. With all the kids I am around every day, I'm sure at least one of their parents is an anti-vaccine nut.
Thanks for the post.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)whooping cough, despite having been vaccinated.
hibbing
(10,076 posts)Always learn something new on DU. I had no idea that the vaccine wore off either. I have not heard of cases happening around here, but I will leave myself a note to ask my doctor about it when I have my annual shortly.
I'll second the thanks for this post.
Peace
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Generally speaking, if you get the disease and survive you have lifelong immunity. It depends on the disease.
The reason people are encouraged to get a flu vaccine every single year is that influenza mutates like crazy, so every year a somewhat different or even vastly different kind is going around. What I'm not sure of is how long the immunity from a particular vaccine in one year lasts against that specific version of flu. I also rather suspect that the immunity conferred by a specific flu vaccine formulation is at least somewhat effective against other versions of the flu. Note the somewhat. That's along the lines of the fact that other vaccines (like DPT or MMR) do not confer 100% immunity.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)Probably made that change because of the problems with weakened herd immunity as of late.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(18,816 posts)I needed a tetanus shot and they come together.
I hadn't had a shot for whooping couph since I was a little kid.
central scrutinizer
(11,617 posts)I went to a family reunion a few years back where the different branches of the extended family pulled out their family trees from the 19th century. Pretty much every branch lost at least one child, many in infancy. One family had nine children, two of whom made it to adulthood. Since that was several generations ago, the oral history is lost and we have become complacent. Now, it is a singular tragedy when someone loses a child - it once was the norm.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...there's always a lot of kid and kid activities at the Y. So soon as I heard that booster shots wear off, I got one along with my flu shot. Just to add: When I initially heard of the whooping cough outbreak among kids, there was no added message in the news about adults getting it. I thought I was safe for life. It was later news stories that let me know I wasn't and should get a booster shot. IF:
(1) I hadn't gotten that info about booster shots in time OR
(2) I hadn't been in a situation where I was ever around kids and thought myself safe OR
(3) I'd been younger and wrongly thought that my original shot might still be good (i.e. that only people over a certain age need the booster shot)
...then like this lady, I might not have gotten it. But I did get it and made sure my husband got it.
Just to add, this is yet another example about the importance of getting our nation on a health plan. Imagine how many people may not have gotten the booster shot simply because they're not on a health plan and rarely go to the doctor. I know that when I go to any doctor now, the nurse taking my blood pressure checks my file to see if I've gotten that shot. And he/she will inform anyone who hasn't gotten it that they should and give it to them right there and then if they want it.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)I will surely use it.
dem in texas
(2,672 posts)Yes, an ex-Playboy Bunny who sells electric cigarettes on TV is an expert on all things medical. I can't wait to hear her wise words on the View. HA!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)becaues a celebrity believes it.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Gotta love how people like you extol science yet eschew logic.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)What is the precise nature of your objection to this piece?
closeupready
(29,503 posts)She may have a large number of beliefs to which we all would have problems with.
I get tired of people here picking on her.
If some people in a free country make a decision to do something, the onus is on them, not Jenny McCarthy or Barack Obama or Honey Boo Boo.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)would leave the poor innocent millionaire celebrity alone.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)you are the opposite. Socrates would not approve.
Anyway, I'll leave you to your moronic "hate Jenny McCarthy" festival.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)is of lesser importance than treating nutty celebrities with the appropriate deference.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)in celebrities all kinds of expertise, just because ... I don't know, they look good, or have a popular comedy program...
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)SouthernLiberal
(407 posts)I got most of the childhood diseases we now have vaccines for, because we did not have them then. Measles - check. Mumps - check. Chicken Pox - check. Moms in those days used to encourage their kids to get exposed to those diseases. What 'everybody knew' back then was that the younger you got them, the better off you would be. We didn't have the pertussis vaccine, either. And I remember how scared my mom was when she heard 'that cough'. She all but kept us locked in our rooms, if there was a rumor that some kid in the neighborhood had whooping cough.
Unlike the other so-called childhood diseases, my mom, and everybody else knew what Ms. McCarthy doesn't seem to know - pertussis kills children. Babies, especially. So what she is telling mothers to do, is to put their children's lives at risk.
I cannot imagine any mother, even if the autism claim were true (and of course, it is not), would not choose an increased chance of autism over watching their child cough him or herself to death.
riversedge
(69,721 posts)tied a scarf around my neck hoping I would not get the mumps. ha ha. got them any way. I think my mom knew the childhood diseases were dangerous--she herself had a cousin who died of the measles. With all this anti--science--individual rights going on, I fear we could regress quite fast. Too many are choosing to opt out.
hatrack
(59,439 posts)And was dogged by respiratory problems for the rest of her life. Nasty disease.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)I wouldn't wish that on anybody. My children were immunized.
I also remember people getting polio. How does JM feel about polio vaccine?
NealK
(1,791 posts)What those people do is simply criminal.
JCMach1
(27,544 posts)vulnerable to these diseases (even if you have had your booster... you could still catch it)...
What happens when it is something worse like POLIO?
Non-vaccinators need to be locked in a room with a constantly playing documentary about infectious diseases and the horrors of the past before they make this kind of decision FOR EVERYONE...
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:16 PM - Edit history (1)
First citation below added on edit to refute inaccurate and ridiculous NVIC dismissals which follow post and refer to second citation.
Stephanie Christner Appointed to FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee
Posted: 11/11/2013 5:08:45 PM
Stephanie Christner, DO, has been appointed to a four-year term as the voting consumer representative on the Vaccines & Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) of the Food & Drug Administration (FDA). On Nov. 13, 2013, she will participate in her first meeting as a member of VRBPAC, a 12-member FDA committee that reviews and evaluates vaccine safety, effectiveness and appropriate use of vaccines and biological products intended for public use, including clinical trial and other data submitted by drug companies seeking licensure of new vaccines.
Honoring Her Daughter & Advocating for Vaccine Education
Stephanie Christner, DO, is a Board Member of the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC). Her infant daughter, Victoria, died on Valentines Day 2009 after reactions to a series of vaccinations she received at two and four months old. In honor of her daughter, Dr. Christner founded Valentines for Victoria, educational fundraisers held in 2010 and 2011 supporting NVICs charitable public education and advocacy work. Dr. Christners personal experience and professional perspective on the need for greater physician and parent vaccine education was featured in the award winning 2011 film documentary The Greater Good.
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[center]National VaccineInformation Center
Your Health. Your Family. Your Choice.
[img][/img][/center]
The following information is provided to help you understand the disease pertussis (whooping cough) and the pertussis vaccine so you can make an informed decision regarding use of this vaccine. Information on this website with links to other websites and resources will help you become educated about many infectious diseases and vaccines so you can take control of and responsibility for your health choices. This information is not intended to serve as medical advice but as background information that you can use to educate yourself.
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What Is the Incidence of Pertussis in the US?
In 1922, there were 107,473 pertussis cases reported in the U.S. with 5,099 deaths. Mortality associated with pertussis declined dramatically in the 1940s as living conditions improved, including sanitation and hygiene and access to health care. During the past quarter century, reports of whooping cough cases have increased among babies less than six months old and among teenagers and adults but mortality has remained low.
In 2010, out of a U.S. population of 308 million people, there were about 27,500 reported cases of pertussis including 27 deaths, with 25 deaths occurring in infants under age one year. However, many cases of whooping cough are never diagnosed or reported. Every four to five years, there are reported increases in whooping cough disease in the U.S. and other countries, no matter how high the vaccination rate.
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How Effective Is Pertussis Vaccine?
Most public health officials maintain that when pertussis vaccine is used on a widespread basis in a population, it appears to lessen the overall incidence of the disease and that vaccinated children have less severe cases of pertussis whooping cough. When pertussis vaccination rates fell to about 30 percent in Sweden, West Germany, England, and Japan in the 1970s, these countries saw major increases in reported cases of the disease within three years of that drop in widespread use.
However, in 1984, Swedish epidemiologist B. Trollfors concluded that whole cell B. pertussis vaccines are only effective for 2 to 5 years. He pointed out that even countries with a 90-95 percent vaccination rate (such as the U.S.) could not completely prevent the disease.
According to a 2005 study in the journal, Pediatrics, pertussis containing DTP and DTaP vaccines were estimated to be from 83.6 percent to as much as 97.7 percent effective, depending on the number of doses administered, the combinations of vaccine used in the shot containing pertussis vaccine, and age of the child at which it was administered,
In 2010, an analysis of a California whooping cough outbreak published in the medical literature revealed that more than 80% were fully vaccinated and pertussis vaccine effectiveness was only between 24% and 41% in children two to 18 years old after three years from the date of vaccination.
In 2012, the CDC acknowledged that pertussis vaccine immunity has waned in older children, that DTaP/Tdap immunity begins to wane within five years of vaccination and that unvaccinated individuals and children with vaccine exemptions are not to blame for current whooping cough outbreaks.
There is another Bordetella pertussis whooping cough disease called B. parapertussis. Symptoms of B. parapertussis whooping cough can look identical to B, pertussis whooping cough but they are usually milder. B, parapertussis is increasing in the U.S. and other countries, which have had high pertussis vaccination rates for few decades. There are estimates that perhaps up to 30 percent of whooping cough disease in highly vaccinated populations may be caused by B. parapertussis organisms.
It is possible to have both B. pertussis and B. parapertussis infections at the same time. Parapertussis is often milder than B. pertussis but can also involve serious complications which lead to pneumonia and death.
Pertussis vaccines widely used around the world do not protect against parapertussis. There is no vaccine for parapertussis.
There is also some evidence that B. pertussis bacteria may have evolved to become vaccine resistant.
Other evidence points to emerging pertussis strains that are not covered in the current DTaP/Tdap and DTP pertussis containing vaccines used in the U.S. and globally.
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Conclusion
It is important to be equally concerned and knowledgeable about the risks of pertussis disease as we are about the risks of pertussis vaccine. Both B, pertussis whooping cough and the pertussis vaccine carry risks. Pertussis disease has the potential to cause seizures, brain damage, and even death, just as the vaccine can.
Most of Americas medical community believes that the risk of serious injury or death from pertussis is greater than the risk of injury or death which can be caused by pertussis vaccine. However, recognition of and concern about the risks of pertussis disease does not diminish our need and responsibility to acknowledge the need to minimize pertussis vaccine risks.
The challenge today is for parents, physicians, scientists, manufacturers and health officials to recognize the risks of both the disease and the vaccine and work to protect the health and well being of every child.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)at least you're consistent.
Sid
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Proverbial clockwork.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)In other words - bunch of crazy conspiracy theory embracing, anti-science nutters.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)But I see very few instances direct citation of their "facts". Rather, I see a long list of unsubstantiated claims with occasional links to the CDC or WHO.
The site is trying hard to look academic and neutral, but fails pretty badly.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)thier child is no better than they were before the jenny recommended doctor and their tips for "curing autism".
they have chased the cure for years. i know they have spent over 200,000 out of pocket on the latest "cure" and hundreds of thousands in insurance covered and out of pocket travel expenses for those trips the latest miracle man.
today they are bankrupt and can not afford the thousands each month for the latest cure. the interesting thing is thier other two kids are fine and of course home scholled because they do believe the shots caused the autism.
needless to say we do not socialize with the family anymore.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)I'm told that when I was four years old, I attended a birthday party where one of the children was diagnosed with polio a couple of days later. The vaccine was still in the testing stage and not generally available, so the only advice the pediatrician could give was that I should get plenty of sleep and extra vitamins. I was lucky; I didn't get it, but the boy who did get it ended up using crutches for the rest of his life.
One day when I was in college, I saw a fellow student with withered, limp legs using crutches, an obvious polio survivor. That's when it occurred to me that everyone I saw who showed after-effects of polio was my age or older.
I had measles when I was nine. Despite its "funny" name, it was beyond all doubt the worst illness of my entire childhood, burning up with fever and constantly thirsty. As I recovered a bit, the worst part for me was that measles can damage the eyes, so I had to lie in a darkened room with nothing to do but listen to the radio. No reading (I loved to read) and no TV (we had only one, and it was downstairs).
Two years later, when I was eleven, the sister of one of my classmates died from measles encephalitis, one of the possible complications.
Yesterday, I was talking with a retired pediatrician I know from the gym, and she was ranting against the anti-vaccine types, because she remembers when all those diseases--measles, whooping cough, mumps, polio, and even diphtheria killed children or left them with permanent disabilities.
We don't know what causes autism. The kind of epidemiological studies that could find the cause have never been done, as far as I know, because they would recover looking at EVERY factor in the child's genetic heritage, prenatal environment, and early life. It could be due to plastic baby bottles, for heaven's sake (just to name one thing that has changed during my lifetime--all baby bottles used to be glass). I'm not saying that "plastic baby bottles" are a cause of autism, but it makes as much sense as saying that vaccines are the cause.
It's worth noting that Japan, which has NEVER used thimerol in its vaccines, is seeing an increase in autism as well, and that in Minneapolis, incidence is unusually high among Somali immigrants. These two facts suggest that Jenny McCarthy and the ninnies who hang on her every word are wrong and that the causes are complex and still unknown.
dem in texas
(2,672 posts)Because J. McCarthy and other so called experts can get on the talk shows. The media does not want to have the real experts; doctors and scientists, etc on their shows. Too dull, no blond hair and big boobs.
Then the worst part is that people actually listen to these so called celebrities and take their advice. Please read the book, The Panic Virus, which deals with this subject in depth.
The USA is not the only country to have a problem with a resurgence of childhood disease. This is also going on in England and some of the Scandinavian countries.
I am old enough to remember when there was no vaccine for whopping cough. One of the scariest things I ever saw was when a neighbor girl who was about 20 months old had whooping cough. She was coughing and blue, gasping for air. My mother and her mother rushed her to the hospital and she survived. Shortly after this, the whooping cough vaccine became available. I was in the first or second grade and we were lined up at school to get a shot to prevent it. Not any parent prevented their child from getting the vaccine, all were thankful to have it.
karynnj
(59,475 posts)in the late 80s and early 1990s.
As a mother with young kids then, the information sheet that doctor's gave parents described the possible side effects and there were a set of side effects for which they said it was important to tell the doctor. I don't remember all of them, but one was atypical excessive crying for hours.
My middle daughter, one of the happiest babies who was almost never fussy, quietly cried for hours. The doctor, at that point, recommended that she get just Tetanus/diphtheria and noted that on her chart. As someone well aware of the mathematics behind herd immunity, I asked the doctor about the pros and cons. What it came down to was that my daughter by the time the second shot was due already at the age that IF she was exposed to and caught whooping cough, she could be treated and the chances of significant problems was low. However, her reaction to the virus potentially would be greater than it was the first time -- with consequences that ranged up to brain damage. Not to mention there were very few cases in our area. Though not likely, the pros and cons were such that her doctor recommended NOT giving it -- and we quickly agreed.
When her younger sister was at the age to get the shot, the doctor was ambivalent on whether her sister's experience made it better not to give it to her. We opted not to.
Years later, the vaccine was improved and there were no problems, both girls got the shots at that point. The younger one did get whooping cough when she was about 10. She amused the doctor by telling the doctor that that was what she had because she had gone through the flow charts in the family medical book. She was not very sick with it - but she did miss some school for the period she was contagious.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)professional do not deserve to be lumped in with those who act in accordance with 'something I read on the Internet."
MuseRider
(34,058 posts)last year, bad case and was down for 3 months. Could not figure out why my xrays were finally clear but I was once again very ill, short of breath and coughing my lungs out constantly. Yup, pertusis following pneumonia. I was so sick all last winter. Just now starting to feel better. I hope you feel better soon, it is terrible as an adult.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MuseRider
(34,058 posts)Sorry, getting used to my tablet and I thought I had read it properly. Must have missed something. Don't get pertussis, it sucks!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Original post)
Post removed
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to become an accomplice to those homicides.
Very ironic, and repulsive, that while pimping misinformation whose function is to make the spread of preventable disease more likely, you cite the work of HIV activists who sought to reduce the spread of disease.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 12, 2013, 09:36 PM - Edit history (4)
Journal link included here (post #1): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023557943
ADDED ON EDIT 2: Check out this official EU CDC site, too. Spend a little time exploring by country. Ask the same or different? Wonder why? Anyone calling ALL THESE PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONALS 'antivaxxers,' too? Wonder why not?
[img][/img]
Vaccine Schedule
ECDC collects information on vaccination schedules in the EU/EEA countries with the help of ECDC national focal points. This tool allows for comparison of shedules between two countries and diseases for all or a selection of countries.
<>
RESUME ORIGINAL POST: And, of course, it's no matter that, "Private equity has invested billions of dollars in the pharmaceutical industry," according to an article I decline to cite at http://www.commondreams.org (why don't you just google it).
More:
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130514-918807.html
http://www.reportlinker.com/p0305645/Global-Vaccine-Market-Forecast-to.html
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2013/07/welcome-ernest-hancock-listeners.html (previous and current US schedule here)
Watch "Bloomberg Market Makers Video: The Economics of Vaccines." Or don't, just flame away. This will be resolved, I am confident. Lots of good people are on it.
VIDEO (2:41): The Economics of Vaccines
Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Olivia Sterns reports on Merck's vaccines business. She speaks on Bloomberg Television's "Market Makers." (Source: Bloomberg)
The Canary Party shared a link: Video above.
October 31
You know that talking point about how vaccines don't make any money and Pharma just does it for the good of humanity?
<>
ADDED ON EDIT 2: Incidentally, the Bloomberg video is NOT my own personal observation, as noted.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Vaccines are not a conspiracy dreamed up by Wall Street to defraud parents while giving their children autism.
They are science-based medicine and part of any sane public health policy.
Again, you anti-vaxxers are literally killing people with your craziness and stupidity. For the love of all that is good, please stop.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)People will die because of your bullshit. More will be crippled.
Please stop.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)for whooping cough? That would have protected you from whatever was going around in the community.
Shouldn't you have made a better decision?
I got mine, by the way. It's a good vaccine.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)wear off; 3) that doesn't change the fact that the degradation to herd immunity from kooks like McCarthy winds up hurting people far outside their audience of fellow kooks. Adult immunizations should not be necessary, and aren't necessary, if the participation rate in vaccination programs is sufficiently high.
What percent of people get vaccinated as adults?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)isn't that enough children aren't getting their childhood vaccines (which could then be blamed on McCarthy.) The vaccination rate overall is still high, although there are spotty areas where it is lower.
The larger problem is that the immunity wears off, and teens and adults should be getting the new boosters. Not because they will themselves get a devastating illness (it's possible for an adult to have pertussis and think it's just a cold), but to protect babies who are too young to be vaccinated.
That's why I got mine.
(The reason for the increase in these cases is that the older, more dangerous vaccine -- the one that killed my healthy 6 month old sister -- conferred a longer period of immunity than the current vaccine. The newer, safer version needs boosters, which should be included with the Diptheria and Tetanus vaccines.)
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Oh, you're not the author.
My bad.
indepat
(20,899 posts)3catwoman3
(23,815 posts)...bleated about by the anti-vaxx camp is that there are too many immunizations given too soon, and that babies have weak immune systems.
It is absolutely true that there are more immunizations given today than there were 50 years ago. It is also absolutely true that the moment an infant is born, he/she is exposed to thousands and thousands of antigens in the every day world, and their immune systems generally handle life on planet Earth quite well with a little attention to good hygiene and common sense avoidance of large crowds at peak illness times of year.
It is also true that the immunizations given today have been refined enough that the total number of immunizations given in the first 6 month of infancy contain fewer antigens that used to be contained in a single smallpox vaccination.
The recommended immunization schedule at 2,4,and 6 months in infancy is what it is because those are the ages at which infants are most vulnerable to the diseases for which the immunizations are given.
3catwoman3
(23,815 posts)As a peds nurse practitioner who devotes considerabe time and energy to educating parents about the correct information about immunizations, it pains me to acknowledge that a relative of mine is one of the founders of NVIC.
Obviously, we are on opposite sides of this health care fence.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)She's convinced that the only reason there are more cases of whooping cough now is because some children aren't getting their childhood vaccines.
What she overlooked completely is the fact that the new, safer DPT vaccine used for children (and a related one for adults) have been shown not to confer lifelong immunity, as the older, more dangerous vaccine did.
So now they need to make sure teens and adults get a pertussis vaccine at least every ten years, as they already do with diptheria and pertussis.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Really? Any other vaccines need to be boosted so frequently? Do you have a link?
Thanks for this info!
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)diptheria vaccines, every ten years.
Did you really not know that? That's been true for at least thirty years.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Thanks.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)then a tetanus booster alone won't be enough, from what I understand. There's some other treatment you would need, too. But if you're current on your tetanus vaccine, then you would only need a booster.
When I got my flu shot I found out that it was free (to me) for the first time. The pharmacist told me it was because of Obamacare.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I knew I had to get one every ten years as an adult since I was a kid.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Protects against whooping cough, tetanus, and diphtheria.
The immunity from whooping cough starts to lessen as one gets into their 20's. Given that, and the need for the others, they just combined the whole thing.
I suspect the drug cos can't figure out how to make much money on it, else they would be prodding the docs to suggest it for most people like they do the expensive stuff. Or maybe it's just that due to most kids being vaccinated these others don't garner near the number of cases the flu would.
We should all be notified of this stuff, but most people don't seem to be, even those who regularly see a doc.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)about 5 years ago, so is it likely that I got the whooping cough and diptheria along with it?
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)after Hurricane Katrina as first responders.
Blue Idaho
(4,988 posts)I live in north Idaho and it seems almost every winter we have severe outbreaks of Whooping Cough, especially in smaller communities that lack public health offices. How Severe? Well, eventually the CDC comes to town and stays there until the epidemic is finally beaten back. It can take months. The cause of the epidemics? Red Necks that are sure immunization is the devil's handiwork.
It is important for everyone, young an old, to get immunized - especially the young. Schools are breeding grounds for WC and kids spread the disease to other family members. If the disease infects the very young and the very old it can have disastrous effects. In Idaho, this has become an annual public health crisis and it all starts with kids who's parents leave them unprotected from this very nasty disease.
Please make sure you immunize. Finger pointing does little good once WC starts spreading.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)SMH.
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)The general concept has a lot of applications, like human thought and the groups we build to preserve the things we wish to believe. An excellent article.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... what you got is way worse than whooping cough (which BTW you will probably get over), you got the stupids (which BTW you probably won't)
Sucks to be you!
tclambert
(11,080 posts)My wife wanted to ask our doctor, but I pointed out he's not a celebrity. Boy, was she embarrassed!
dflprincess
(28,057 posts)Thanks to residual immunity from childhood vaccinations it wasn't bad enough for me to head for the doctor (though, given my age, a persistant cough should have done so). It wasn't until I read what the symptoms of a mild case can be that it dawned on my that I may have had it.
I didn't know the vaccinations weren't working until I saw PSAs about it last year and then I got a booster as my nephew and his wife were due to have a baby and I wanted to be sure I wasn't a risk to the infant.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)As others have noted, the vaccine wears off eventually.
.
But the situation is dramatically worsened by the prevalence of anti-vax woo, some of which even turns up here.
alittlelark
(18,886 posts)It is horrible. Didn't go to the doctor for a week or so until it got out of control. Codeine cough syrup barely helped and made me tired. I got a booster after I FINALLY got better, and will continue to do so.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)Scroll down to middle of page and click on View Final Report to see how many cases were in your state.
RFKHumphreyObama
(15,164 posts)Despite my youth at the time (I couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 or perhaps younger), I have vivid memories of waking up in the middle of the night coughing so hard that I found it difficult to breathe and my parents trying to help me.
I wouldn't take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy but I do take the larger point -it is unhelpful when celebrities peddle such nonsense because it helps lend validity to such a dubious and dangerous cause
Liberty Belle
(9,528 posts)That's in San Diego, where there is a major outrbreak; in recent months more and more of the cases, maybe even the majority now, are in people who had the vaccinations, even healthy people with no immune issues.
I vaccinated my kids, and don't advise anyone not to vaccinate. But I am concerned that we are maybe getting strains that are resistant to the vaccine.
classykaren
(769 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)I guess they are trying to get the immunity back up in adults.
classykaren
(769 posts)I know how you feel however I did receive pertussis shot as a child. I think there is something much more involved in this. Big increase in Autism. Type 2 diabetes in children was unheard of . I wonder if pesticides and GMO foods weaken the immune system. Something is causing the large increase in Autism. Plus many more shots are given to babies now than before and they are rushed together to save money for the insurance companies. Insist they go back to the schedule they used in 1976.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)autism was not diagnosed because there was no diagnosis to be had. if your child had any cognitive deficits they were categorize as 'retarded' but autism is a very new diagnostic category, especially autism spectrum
TNNurse
(6,911 posts)I rarely seek out health and medical advice from a celebrity. Well, actually I never do. There are so many people in the world today (I just thought it was the US) who have chosen to ignore science in general. They have decided that scientific advances were apparently a waste of time. Whoever gave credence to that exceptionally flawed study on vaccines and autism chose to believe that very narrow investigation. Vaccines simply save lives. They save suffering.
I recently spent some time with a 65 yo woman who had polio. She is now dealing with post polio problems. Her life has been spent in a wheelchair. She lost a brother to polio when they were children. The thought that polio could return in this country is horrifying. All it would take is an unvaccinated person travelling to a country where the illness has returned and spreading it around here. People would suffer, people would die. IGNORANCE SHOULD NEVER BE THE CAUSE OF DISEASE.
Someone in my family recently requested booster shots which include pertussis booster before she visits with her newborn who is too young to get her own vaccine. I was glad to do it, to encourage others and glad for the reminder.
I am a recent cancer survivor. There is an incredibly low incidence of cancer in my family. It was a shock to me. We have a small child in our family who is autistic. I have friends who have autistic children or grandchildren. Everywhere you turn there seem to be food allergies. Have we done damage to our environment that caused this??? More than likely. Do we need to make some changes to save the planet? Absolutely. Do we need to deny all scientific and medical knowledge and return to the Dark Ages (or before) to save ourselves?? ABSOLUTELY NOT. COMMON SENSE REALLY IS NOT COMMON....IT IS RARE.
LuckyTheDog
(6,837 posts)... not to take medical advice from a person who became famous because she looked really good naked when she was younger (and probably still does).
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)their kids
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)As the son of a PCP, I'm a huge believer in staying current with vaccinations. Unlike the unfortunate OP. I *am* UTD on my pertussis vaccination.
This was the 'pearl of wisdom' in the OP: "...I understand your wanting to raise your own children as you see fit, science be damned, but you're selfishly jeopardizing more than your own children....".
barbaraj
(80 posts)it's not a blame game..the surveillance of B.pertussis is showing current disease is
not a match for b.pertussis typed in vaccine..as well as an overlap in reported cases representing rsv and
parapertussis. Likely these cases could not have been prevented. The pertussis genomic subtypes are simply not covered by current vaccines.
Response to geek tragedy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Wow, maybe you should check out Alex Jones, I am fairly sure the illuminati is out to get him too.