Clinton to Obama: Let Americans keep canceled health plans

[Mass]

We can always count on Bill Clinton to give his opinion at the worse moment possible. I think it is likely that the WH will find a fix for this problem, but you will soon see Fox push Bill Clinton's opinion in support of the inane GOP bill.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/11/12/clinton-obamacare-cancelled-health-plans/3505247/

WASHINGTON--Former President Bill Clinton said that President Obama should honor his oft-repeated pledge and allow people to hang on to health care plans that are being cancelled as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

"I personally believe, even if it takes a change in the law, that the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people and let them keep what they've got," Clinton said in an interview at OZY.com published on Tuesday.
...

The White House has said that the president is exploring administrative action to help some of the millions on the individual insurance market who have received cancellation notices, but hasn't announced any specific steps they may take.

[frazzled]

1. In other words: Don't regulate the insurance industry

Really bad advice. Whether or not some people claim to "like" these predatory and useless plans, they need to be removed from the market. Half the point of this reform is to make sure that health insurance meets certain basic standards. To do away with that weakens everything about the law and its intended consequences.

[grahamhgreen]

2. +1. Require that the plans cost the same but comply.

[ProSense]

12. They're available. For example,

Dylan Ratigan complained about his $170 bogus plan being canceled and replaced by a $600 plan by his insurance company. The insurance companies are directing people with canceled plans to their own sites, not the exchanges.

He was pushed to the exchange by people on Twitter, where he found real coverage at about the same cost. In fact, the castastrophic, which meets the ACA standards, only cost $20 more than his bogus plan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024004900#post12

Looks like he opted for the platinum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024004900#post13

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. Platinum...that figures...

did he do a big "expose" of his findings?

Of course not!

[grahamhgreen]

18. That's cool. No reason to allow the old plans that really covered nothing to be grandfathered, IMHO.

[karadax]

20. Except the old plans still offered

Preventive care. Shots, exams, screenings and access to affordable medications. For a young healthy person that is probably more important than the potential coverage of a what if diagnosis. Now some of these people are paying more for what they previously had.

[ProSense]

24. Not true. n/t

[Keefer]

38. Here is my old plan:

My current health plan:

My premium costs me $6 per week, taken directly out of my paycheck.
I have a $1000 deductible.
A doctor or specialist visit costs me a $10 co-pay.
I pay $4 for a 90 day supply of generic medications.
Wellness visits are free.
Vision is covered.
Dental is covered.

I have a pre-existing heart condition. I was also born with a heart murmur and had rheumatic fever as a child. I was admitted to the hospital this past May for a rapid heartbeat. I spent 6 days in the Critical Care Unit, then I was moved to a "regular" room for 2 more days. When I got the confirmation from the insurance company that they paid it, the total bill was over $42,000. My responsibility of that amount: $100.00

My plan is not available next year because it does not provide maternity or pediatric care. I am a single male with no kids. Why do I need those coverages?

[taught_me_patience]

56. Please stop comparing apples to oranges

you are comparing your GROUP plan, which your employer sponsors vs. INDIVIDUAL plans. Your employer is responsible for finding new plans if his/her plans are not satisfactory. I've called you out on other threads, yet you continue to mislead and lie.

[Keefer]

57. Mislead and lie?

Lie about what? This is my current plan. I have the exact benefits I stated in my post. Why does it matter if it's a group plan or an individual plan? Effective January 1, It is no longer available.

[karynnj]

54. That is because they are making poor decisions

In a way, this is backwards. You are essentially paying in advance for routine medical care - while leaving yourself unprotected for the things that would financially destroy you.

What you NEED insurance for is for costs that you absolutely could not handle. It is true that you might get through the year - or decade without needing it. However, SOME of your peer group will. The thing is that neither you or they know which category they will be in. That is what shared risk means.

[Yo_Mama]

21. A lot of these plans were good plans

I'm sorry, but I have checked and many of these plans being cancelled were good, comprehensive plans.

I don't think the proposal is workable, but I understand why Clinton would say that for political reasons.

[ProSense]

25. Wrong, and

"I'm sorry, but I have checked and many of these plans being cancelled were good, comprehensive plans."

...the primary problem is the insurance companies' new quotes are bogus. Similar to Ratigan being offered a plan for $600, when he could get coverage for about $200 for a bronze and up to $400 for platinum.

If people went to the exchanges instead of relying on the bogus insurance quotes, they'd find better plans.

Reminder for people getting those letters from their insurers: You're not their captive anymore
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/30/1251888/-Reminder-for-people-getting-those-letters-from-their-insurers-You-re-not-their-captive-nbsp-anymore

The letters aren't letting people know they can shop the exchanges.

Here is where it gets a bit more interesting. The "cancellation letter" directed us to the BCBS website, where we could shop through various other options...It has become quite clear over the past couple of weeks that BCBS does not want us shopping on the Illinois Exchange.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023949034

[Whisp]

35. +++ Thankyou, ProSense

So that figures. Either Bill is a stupid dumbass that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about or

he has some interests and investments in not seeing ACA work at it's best and throwing those wrenches will somehow help him or Hillary in the future.

fucker.

[BKH70041]

28. That's true.

Those who suggest that others should be happy with the plans they liked being cancelled are as unAmerican as it gets. It's not up to them to decide, it's up to that person. I wouldn't dream of telling someone else the plan they liked was lousy because, by doing so, they're automatically announcing they're a fucking idiot, many of which can be observed doing so on this site.

[ProSense]

29. Actually,

"I wouldn't dream of telling someone else the plan they liked was lousy because, by doing so, they're automatically announcing they're a fucking idiot, many of which can be observed doing so on this site."

...not informing people that the insurance companies are attempting to screw them over is what's idiotic.

Obamacare 'rate shock' victim changes her mind, calls the law a 'blessing in disguise'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/04/1253038/-Obamacare-rate-shock-victim-changes-her-mind-calls-the-law-a-blessing-in-disguise

The Real Story Behind the Phony Canceled Health Insurance Scandal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023978044

[BKH70041]

30. Informing them of your opinion is one thing.

But it's inappropriate to tell them they're stupid because they wanted to keep the plan they've enjoyed for years, and I've seen that expressed here and other blogs.

[ProSense]

31. "Informing them of your opinion"?

You seem to think that people enjoy being screwed over by the insurance companies. It's not my opinion, it's a fact: the plans are bogus.

"But it's inappropriate to tell them they're stupid because they wanted to keep the plan they've enjoyed for years, and I've seen that expressed here and other blogs."

Informing someone is not telling them "they're stupid."

The fact is that it's now illegal for the insurance companies to screw over people with these plans. They simply have to comply with the law.

It would be highly irresponsible for anyone to advocate support for a situation that allows the insurance companies to screw people.

[BKH70041]

33. That's your opinion, and that's all it will ever be.

If you believe your plan was screwing you, that's up to you. If someone believes there plan was sufficient and they were happy, that's up to them. Someone else's viewpoint of their plan isn't your concern, nor will it ever be. There's nothing you can do to change that, so get over it.

I already implied informing them of an opinion isn't saying they're stupid. Calling them stupid is calling them stupid, something I have observed others doing on other threads here and on other blogs.

[ProSense]

34. Wait,

"That's your opinion, and that's all it will ever be."

...you're saying that if someone is paying $50 for nothing, it's my "opinion" that they're paying $50 for nothing?

No, if they're paying $50 for nothing, it's a fact they're paying $50 for nothing.

It's not my "opinion" that these insurance companies dropped people for getting sick. It's a fact.

If you believe your plan was screwing you, that's up to you. If someone believes there plan was sufficient and they were happy, that's up to them. Someone else's viewpoint of their plan isn't your concern, nor will it ever be. There's nothing you can do to change that, so get over it.

I already implied informing them of an opinion isn't saying they're stupid. Calling them stupid is calling them stupid, something I have observed others doing on other threads here and on other blogs.

You are ignoring that some people have been misinformed or are uninformed. What happens when they get screwed? Are you going to say that's on them? That it's not anyone's "concern"?

What you're advocating is allowing the insurance companies to screw people. Period. There is no way around it.

Again, informing people is not "calling them stupid." You seem to equate not knowing something is bad with a personal choice, and insist that attempts to let people know something is bad is the same as "calling them stupid."

Most people value becoming informed. See:

Obamacare 'rate shock' victim changes her mind, calls the law a 'blessing in disguise'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/04/1253038/-Obamacare-rate-shock-victim-changes-her-mind-calls-the-law-a-blessing-in-disguise

Again, it would be highly irresponsible for anyone to advocate support for a situation that allows the insurance companies to screw people.

[BKH70041]

37. You don't get to decide what's "nothing" for someone else.

You decide for you, they decide for them. That is unless you're some authoritarian, which evidence is growing that you are, then you go right ahead and we'll see where that lands you.

Joe and Jane Average don't give a flying fucking shit what Prosense thinks about the plan they enjoyed for years. You're not in a position to make that choice for them. And you were told to get over it, so do it.

[ProSense]

39. So when the insurance companies drop them for getting sick, they're just SOL?

You decide for you, they decide for them. That is unless you're some authoritarian, which evidence is growing that you are, then you go right ahead and we'll see where that lands you.

Joe and Jane Average don't give a flying fucking shit what Prosense thinks about the plan they enjoyed for years. You're not in a position to make that choice for them. And you were told to get over it, so do it.

No one is deciding for them. The "authoritarian" claim is simply bullshit. I mean, the plans are illegal because they suck.

Well, you apparently "don't give a flying fucking shit" about people going bankrupt or dying because insurance companies screwed them over.

What is your objection to someone getting a better plan that doesn't screw them over?

It appears you simply want the insurance companies to get their way at the expense of people. You're simply hiding behind the "calling them stupid" and "authoritarian" claims because you side with the predatory practices of the insurance companies.

[BKH70041]

43. The topic is people who lost plans they were perfectly happy with.

Do try and keep up.

[ProSense]

44. So when the insurance companies drop them for getting sick, they're just SOL?

"The topic is people who lost plans they were perfectly happy with. Do try and keep up."

No, the "topic" is shitty insurance plans and predatory practices, and people who think they should stand.

[BKH70041]

49. Not really.

Joe & Jane Average are pissed. They had insurance they were happy with, were promised they could keep it, and now they learn differently. In their view, they were betrayed.

The topic is not going to die.

And so far the only answers I'm seeing at this site are insufficient. Well, that.... and a whole lot of lousy excuses that won't work in the real world.

But good luck with that.

[ProSense]

50. Oh please

Joe & Jane Average are pissed. They had insurance they were happy with, were promised they could keep it, and now they learn differently. In their view, they were betrayed.

The topic is not going to die.

And so far the only answers I'm seeing at this site are insufficient. Well, that.... and a whole lot of lousy excuses that won't work in the real world.

But good luck with that.

This is nothing but shilling for shitty plans. No, "Joe & Jane Average" are not "pissed." In fact, as people learn more, they're realizing the insurance companies are screwing them and they can find real coverage on the exchange. This is simply a Republican talking point still riding the misinformation wave. The reality is that while this affects about three percent of the population (the total individual market), not all the plans are being canceled, and not everyone getting a cancellation notice is still in the dark.

There is no excuse for justifying the continuation of plans that will screw people via bankruptcy or death.

[Mass]

48. So, when they get sick and discover they are not covered, what do we do?

Or when they reach their cap and the insurance does not pay anymore.

Sure, they may be happy now, but life changes? Do you suggest they get a cancer insurance when they get sick with cancer? Because this is not how insurance works?

[Fumesucker]

3. He's so good with his stiletto

You don't even see the blade

h/t Billy Joel

[reddread]

9. best tune on a pretty good album

just sayin.

[legcramp]

4. I've never heard of OZY or Carlos Watson but all of a sudden Drudge and a bunch of other

RW sites have posted a "trimmed up" version of Bill's comments.

Naturally they leave out his other supportive remarks and are just trumpeting this.

http://www.ozy.com/c-notes/assessing-the-healthcare-rollout-with-bill-clinton/3639.article

[leftstreet]

5. What a stupid thing to say

Why doesn't he use his celebrity status to go after states refusing to expand Medicaid?

[Scuba]

11. + Eighty Gazillion

[Whisp]

6. Right on cue, Mr. Sarah Palin.

what is the whole Point of ACA then, Mr. Bill, if you want to keep plans that don't have the minimum new standard? But ah, I see what you are doing, you are once again ripping into Obama for his good works because you weren't able to do it. You want to rip the ACA apart so the hillary can put it back together again and be the freaking hero.

shut up Bill, shut.

[Drale]

7. Even smart people

say stupid shit every now and again and this is one of those times.

[BKH70041]

8. That ship has sailed.

It either sinks or floats on its own.

[karynnj]

10. That is so unhelpful and the timing is awful

Either Bill Clinton is the most over rated strategist ever or he really is not a good team player. I can think of several promises Bill Clinton made but did not honor.

[madrchsod]

13. with friends like billy boy who needs enemies?

[TwilightGardener]

15. I don't think it's that simple, though. That would rely on extensive administrative

work by insurance companies, possibly run afoul of state insurance laws, etc. I think a better fix would be to automatically subsidize the difference in premiums from an individual policy that was cancelled to a new Exchange policy for a couple years, IF the policy holder isn't already getting a subsidy--in other words, regardless of income. Let the individual policy holders get better insurance thru the ACA for the same or less money, for a little while. I would think that the previous policies were generally crappy and high-deductible, didn't cover much in terms of copays and drug benefits, so the big price difference is probably the premium--seems like the easiest fix. Just have those individual policy holders forward their policy info and cancellation letters for proof.

[TheKentuckian]

71. The weak spot there is the reality that most folks don't have a lot of needs.

Satisfaction with policies is often fueled by minimal utilization and bottom line cost.

Trying it generally just flat won't matter in enough numbers to really move the needle to the point of any significant increase demonstrating it's worth.

The worth just doesn't prove it's self without some level of crisis or consistent need. The majority at any given time aren't going to see hundreds of dollars in increased value. Talking up wellness exams is not going to carry the day people know how much an office visit is.

[TwilightGardener]

74. Nobody's ever going to get excited about health insurance while they're healthy.

Many people aren't ever going to use what's covered, either. But I imagine nobody ever got excited to pay into Social Security or Medicare for the first few years, decades away from ever seeing benefits. I think the best way to handle those who lose coverage due to insurance cancellations is to minimize their financial loss and inconvenience as much as possible the first few years, until the market adjusts to all the changes and people are fully enrolled. I think it will take some time for everyone to see advantages in the law, and benefit from the industy changes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. Go home, Bill, you're drunk.

Bill Clinton - you are part of the problem, my friend. Your years of smoking corporate pole have all but killed the soul of the Democratic Party and helped the country on its slide downhill.

[Comrade Grumpy]

17. Bill Clinton is so last century. n/t

[AgingAmerican]

19. The plans being canceled are now unsellable

That's why the insurance companies are yanking them. They are mostly scam quasi-insurance. Nobody will want them anymore so the companies are discontinuing them.

They are also illegal under the new law because they do not meet the minimum standard.

Who cares what FOX news says? They hold sway over a certain chunk of the electorate that lives in an information bubble. FOX just flat out lies about the subject if need be.

[demwing]

22. Bill Clinton, teller of truths, keeper of committments

[Whisp]

41. selfish asshole, what he did.

or was it the plan, to keep the world focused on his stupid wiener for a year and not look elsewhere?

[Beacool]

59. Ahhh, here it comes.

The low blow fit for a RW site.

[surrealAmerican]

23. How would that work?

When, inevitably, some of the people with these plans get sick or injured, do we just let them go bankrupt and be denied care?

[Lifelong Dem]

26. He should be upset about all the scam insurance plans out there

But hey, he struck out on health care reform and feels better to take away from Obama's accomplishment.

[DonCoquixote]

46. THIS!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hell Yes!

[Cigar11]

27. Make thme sign a 25 Year Waver from ObamaCare ...

You want Crap ... then you keep Crap

[mwrguy]

32. Some people just aren't capable of making the best choices for themselves

There is a reason that those plans were banned by the ACA.

[leftstreet]

40. Nonsense. People buy what they can afford

If the people buying those plans could afford good coverage, they'd have gotten it

Why is there no credit given to those who were trying to get some form of coverage, rather than remaining uninsured and vulnerable to bankruptcy?

[Arugula Latte]

36. God I find that man maddening.

Once in awhile he does some good stuff ... and then immediately ruins it.

[octoberlib]

42. Oh,shut up, Bill. nt

[DonCoquixote]

45. Right up there with the "wuss"speech about Syria

Bill, let me say this plainly. The fact that you are playing kingmaker behind the scenes is very much the reason why I do not want you or your wife anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. You are defending plans that frankly, were overpriced and laden with holes, and are helping GOP propaganda, as always.

You are like the stepdad that used to get drunk all the time, but somehow payed for college. We appreciate the good you did, but it never justified the way you would abuse us and break our heart again and again.

[Whisp]

53. yep, or how he defended Romney last election

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bill-clinton-criticizes-obama-bain-attacks-praises-romney-141022725.html

Bill Clinton criticizes Obama’s Bain attacks, praises Romney’s ‘sterling business career’

Can't tolerate that asshat.

[Jamaal510]

47. Thanks for giving the GOP some ammunition, Big Dog. nt

[Deep13]

51. No. Those plans suck.

The whole point of health insurance reform was to eliminate the inadequate policies.

[babylonsister]

52. Umm, who cancelled them? Didn't insurance companies after

they tweaked them enough to un-grandfather them? Is Clinton's target the right one?

And I find him maddening, too. He should just STFU, or, as someone posted above, go after states such as mine who are denying me the Medicaid option.

[winter is coming]

55. What was that I heard? An invitation to dig up video clips of Clinton making promises that blew up

in his face?

[Beacool]

58. Stop with the drama and read this.

White House: Obama agrees with Clinton on need to fix health law

President Obama agrees with former President Bill Clinton's assessment of problems with the Affordable Care Act and has asked his aides to find ways to address them, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday.

Carney pointed to Obama’s comments in an interview last week with NBC News, in which he said he has requested fixes that will help people keep health insurance plans that are being cancelled but that they don’t want to give up.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/11/white-house-obama-agrees-with-clinton-on-need-to-fix-177333.html

[ProSense]

61. This is media spin.

Carney is now having to deal with Clinton's and Boehner's comments.

He's not going to come out and say Clinton is wrong. He simply reiterating what the President said in his interview, saying he apologize for the confusion created by the statement about keeping your plan.

PRESIDENT OBAMA:
Well-- first of all, I meant what I said. And we worked hard to try to make sure that we implemented it properly. But obviously, we didn't do enough-- a good enough job-- and I regret that. We're talking about 5% of the population-- who are in what's called the individual market. They're out there buying health insurance on their own.

A lot of these plans are subpar plans. And we put in a clause in the law that said if you had one of those plans, even if it was subpar-- when the law was passed, you could keep it. But there's enough churn in the market that folks since then have bought subpar plans. And now that may be all they can afford. So even though it only affects a small amount of the population, you know, it means a lot to them, obviously, when they get-- this letter cancelled.

And-- you know, I am deeply concerned about it. And I've assigned my team to see what we can do to close some of the holes and gaps in the law-- because, you know, my intention is to lift up and make sure the insurance that people buy is effective. That it's actually going to deliver what they think they're purchasing. Because what we know is before the law was passed, a lot of these plans, people thought they had insurance coverage. And then they'd find out that they had huge out of pocket expenses. Or women were being charged more than men.

If you had preexisting conditions, you just couldn't get it at all. And we are proud of the consumer protections we put into place. On the other hand, we also want to make sure that-- nobody is put in a position where their plan's been cancelled. They can't afford a better plan, even though they'd like to have a better plan. And so we're going to have to work hard-- to make sure that those folks-- are, you know, taken care of.

<...>

PRESIDENT OBAMA:
Well, that-- let me just say generally-- and I don't think I'm saying anything that people don't know and I haven't said before. I am deeply frustrated about-- how this website has not worked over the first couple of weeks. And, you know, I take responsibility of that. My team take responsibility of that. And we are working every single day, 24/7, to improve it. And it's better now than it was last week. And it's certainly a lot better than it was on October 1st.

I'm confident that it will be even better by November 30th and that the majority of people are going to be able to get on there. They're going to be able to enroll. They're going to be able to apply. And they're going to get a good deal-- a better deal than they've got right now when it comes to buying health insurance.

Now that-- you know, having said that-- given that I've been burned already with-- a website-- well, more importantly, the American people have been burned by-- a website that has been dysfunctional. What we've also been doing is creating a whole other set of tracks. Making sure that people can apply by phone effectively. Making sure that people can apply in person effectively. So what I'm confident about is that anybody who wants to buy health insurance through the marketplace, they are going to be able to buy it. And--

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/07/video-watch-obama-kinda-sorta-apologize-to-americans-losing-their-health-plans/

[Beacool]

62. What's spin is the media trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Bill.

[ProSense]

63. Huh?

"What's spin is the media trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Bill."

You posted the media's take, which is: Look everybody, Obama agrees with Clinton that the insurance companies should be allowed to continue screwing people.

That is not Carney's point or what Obama said in his interview.

[Beacool]

60. Here some more from a different source.

"I personally believe, even if it takes a change in the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people and let them keep what they've got," Clinton said during an interview with the website OZY.com.

Clinton did, however, spend much of the interview defending the 2010 health care overhaul.

"The big lesson is that we're better off with this law than without it," he said.

"The enrollment period didn't come off well because the national website wasn't ready," Clinton noted. "But this happened once before. It happened when President Bush put in the Medicare drug program for seniors, which was not as complicated, but had exactly the same problem with the roll out. It was a disaster. There were people that lost their prescriptions for their existing medicine. And they fixed it."

Obama agrees with Clinton's assessment, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/12/clinton-obama-should-honor-commitment-on-keeping-health-plans/?hpt=hp_t2

[Spirochete]

64. Is he dedicating his life

to scuttling health care? He's been at it for 20 years, now.

[kiawah]

65. This is the guy that most of the people on this site (so it seems) want BACK in the white house....

There has GOT to be a better alternative to Hillary!!!

[arthritisR_US]

66. Consumer protections were never big on Bills

agenda. Now, if he would only shut the feck up!

[Deep13]

68. Nope, but he did veto bankruptcy "reform" twice. nt

[arthritisR_US]

69. What exactly was he opposing in the bills? nt

[Deep13]

70. Don't know, but they made it harder to get a bankruptcy discharge.

Bush signed it into law, of course.

[arthritisR_US]

72. If Bush signed the same thing into law then it

couldn't have been good for the little guy, at least Clinton didn't sign onto that. Wish I could say that about all the other crappy things he let through.

[Deep13]

75. Agree on both things. nt

[kentuck]

67. Here is what the WH is seriously considering:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024006998

[quinnox]

73. Good advice, Mr. President

Clinton is right, and Obama should honor and follow through on this.

[truebluegreen]

76. Tell the Big Dog to go cheney himself.

After asking why the F he stuck his nose in this.