So, I was sitting on a chair in the hall of the county courthouse this morning

[Skidmore]

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2013, 01:58 PM - Edit history (3)

waiting for the driver's license office to open. Now we live in a fairly conservative rural county in Iowa. Lots of work over the past two elections turned it blue enough to get the vote out for the President.

Anyway, this guy with a shock of gray hair atop craggy sunbrowned face and wearing bibbed overalls and and a barn coat walked up. He asked me if I knew where the restrooms were. Well, I only go out there once very 4-5 years to renew my driver's licence so I can't be of assistance. A clerk walked out of one of the offices and directed him on his way. He returned in about 10 minutes and stopped again. Said he was there to check about jury duty and he was anxious about it because he had finally found a new job. He was starting over again and was fearful that jury duty would derail him with the job.

We started to chat a bit and he told me that his wife had passed away a couple of years ago after a prolonged illness. She had also been dropped by the insurance that they had paid $800/month for. Her out of pocket medical bills were $400K by the time she passed. He shook his head and told me that he had paid it all off except for the final $11K, for which he had been working temp jobs or anything he could get to earn enough to pay off. He had liquidated all of his assets--sold his house and outbuildings, vehicles, and furniture. Said he had been unable to get insurance himself because he had a pre-existing condition.

At the onset of this conversation, I was kind of expecting a sledgehammer to be lowered on Dems and ACA because he had come to this area from Steve King's district. Instead, the man went on to tell me that he didn't blame the President for the problems with the ACA. That he blamed Congress and wanted to see all of those who are trying to stand in the the way of ACA and the work of the government be voted out of office. He was very upset with King and his "buddies" (Cruz and the 40 thieves) and he really would like to get Boehner in a room to give him a piece of his mind.

You know, it was nice to hear someone else say this out loud. Sometimes you just have to step away from the naysayers of the cyber universe.

[bluestate10]

1. Basically, a good person wiped out financially due to a medical bill, one of the

problems that the ACA would prevent. He and his wife paid $800/month for nothing, he and she were likely then people with a little money in their pockets as later paying an $800,000 debt attests to. Why isn't this man's story being brought forward to counter the fear mongering bullshit of the Palins and Cruzes of the country?

[elehhhhna]

4. HIs situation is exactly what bankruptcy is there for.

But he's been drilled since birth that that's a BAD thing for a person to ever do no matter what.


And funny how Cong fucked bankruptcy law for the public RIGHT before the last economic crash.

[hootinholler]

9. Except the bankruptcy reform bill back in like 2006

Exempted medical bills as dischargeable.

[Javaman]

11. You know who was part author of the bill right? nt

[hootinholler]

13. It's the one thing I will never forgive Joe for. n/t

[Javaman]

14. Same here. nt

[scarletwoman]

20. Same here.

Behind all the happy horseshit is some nasty sleaze.

[warrant46]

21. Joe sure helped us out with Clarence Thomas too !!

[OKNancy]

16. I don't believe this is true.

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2013, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I have to go vote but a quick google will show you that you can discharge medical bills.

I'm confused too: Lieberman voted against the bankruptcy reform act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1655212

[scarletwoman]

19. Wrong Joe.

This Joe actually made it to the Vice Presidency.

[OKNancy]

22. LOL - that explains it.

Thanks.

[former9thward]

31. Absolutely untrue.

Medical bills are dischargable. Where do people get this nonsense?

[treestar]

29. Not in a way that affected medical bills

It affected wealthier people who have to do Chapter 13 and pay back rather than Chapter 7 discharge, if they can afford it, and limited the amount of time they can stretch the plan out over.

[BlueStreak]

28. This is horrible. And unfortunately among the "salt of the earth"

the only ones who seem to figure this out are the ones who personally get put through the grinder like this poor fellow.

Honestly I get really discouraged some times. We are working our butts off to try to HELP these people. I wish there were some way for more of them to see the truth without having to experience the worst our system can throw at them.

This really needs to be the centerpiece of the 2014 elections. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of people like this gentleman in ever Congressional district. Let them tell their stories.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Greatest Page for this important story!

Thank you for telling it.

[Nay]

3. Although I realize older men like these have the mindset that they MUST

pay every bill they incurred, no matter how ridiculous, it's horrible that at this time in his life he can't seem to make himself be sensible. He needs a house to live in, etc., and he allowed it all to be ripped away from him rather than simply declare a medical bankruptcy. For heaven's sake -- he could have gone ahead and paid whatever amount he thought was fair and declared bankruptcy on the rest.

There is no reason this poor man should be in this situation at all.

[Lars39]

10. I bet he didn't negotiate the price down either. :-(

[Nay]

15. Of course he didn't -- and a society that expects sick people and their

upset, grieving relatives to try to 'negotiate' medical bills is, IMO, a very sick and cruel society. No sick person should have to run a gauntlet of ghouls trying to rip him off for every dollar possible. SOCIETY should do its best to prevent such parasitic behavior. Our society encourages such 'competition', and here we are.

[pnwmom]

23. Are you sure a medical bankruptcy would have allowed him to keep his house?

I've known people who went through bankruptcy and couldn't keep theirs. A few states have exceptions for houses (homesteader clauses) but most don't.

[Nay]

24. No. I'm not sure. Each state is probably different. But he certainly had no

chance of saving his house if he didn't even try bankruptcy. The first thing to do in his case would have been to see a good lawyer immediately and it doesn't sound like he did that. It's so awful for him. Aged and robbed of everything he had over a fucking medical bill. It's barbaric.

[former9thward]

35. You can keep your house in Iowa.

Plus a lot of other things. And that does not count federal exemptions. http://www.iowabankruptcylaw.com/exemptions.html

[treestar]

30. +1 if he had the $$ to pay back all but 11K

He likely could have kept the house.

Every state has its own exemptions, but most are forgiving enough for that.

[malaise]

5. Important post

Rec

[AndyA]

6. Sad that this guy gave up everything he and his late wife worked for

to pay off medical bills, just so some CEO at a health insurer can have a third vacation house that is used once or twice a year.

And Congress wants to protect the vultures that do this to people.

I agree with this gentleman: they all should be voted out of office and replaced with people who know first hand what it's like to struggle and lose everything. I doubt they'd be so willing to protect the millionaires and big greedy corporations.

Thanks for sharing--you just never know how a person really feels until you talk to them. I'll bet it helped him having a kind ear to listen. You did your good deed for the day.

[former9thward]

33. No he gave up everything because he did not talk to an attorney.

He could have done a bankruptcy and kept the house and threw away the 400k bill. Depending on the facts he may not have even been responsible for his dead wife's medical bills.

[AndyA]

39. Very often people can't afford an attorney

Most will not work for free. He and his wife should have never been put in a position where they owed that much money.

[former9thward]

40. The OP said he paid off except for 11k a 400k medical bill.

He had money for an attorney.

[AndyA]

41. The OP also said the man liquidated all his assets to pay them off

He was working part time and odd jobs to pay off the 11k. Everything was gone. Not acceptable.

[former9thward]

42. Not acceptable and unnecessary.

You don't even need an attorney to file bankruptcy in federal court. Attorneys do not charge for initial consulting. His loss.

[AndyA]

43. That's certainly not a very caring attitude toward someone who's suffered a hardship.

Not everyone is as educated about the law as you are. The point is the insurance companies should have never been permitted to put this man in the position he was put in, and he's not an exception--it's happened to many others over the years.

I'm glad I still have the ability to empathize with others.

[former9thward]

44. It wasn't the insurance companies that gave him a 400k bill.

It was the medical industry. As long as you are assessing blame on others at least get it in the right place.

[AndyA]

45. The insurance companies dropped his wife.

That's why they had a $400k bill.

She had also been dropped by the insurance that they had paid $800/month for. Her out of pocket medical bills were $400K by the time she passed. He shook his head and told me that he had paid it all off except for the final $11K, for which he had been working temp jobs or anything he could get to earn enough to pay off. He had liquidated all of his assets--sold his house and outbuildings, vehicles, and furniture.

Perhaps you didn't read the same OP that I read.

[former9thward]

46. I read the same OP

The medical industry gives out ridiculously inflated bills. But go ahead and defend them.

[AndyA]

48. How you concluded that I am defending the medical industry is beyond me

That was a real leap on your part, but you are completely incorrect in your conclusion.

I'm beginning to feel like your intent is to disrupt, so I'm going to stop feeding and move on.

[iamthebandfanman]

7. Good for him, but you

should have let him know that you cant be fired for going to jury duty (US Code Title 28 sec 1875) .. that's illegal, last time I checked... and can even get the employer sent to jail.. lol

[Skidmore]

8. I told him that but I think he needed to make the trip

to talk to someone in the court's office out of anxiety. Sometimes you just need to be reassured even though you hold the knowledge in you head.

[Auntie Bush]

12. Thanks for posting this good news Skidmore.

More stories/experiences like that need to be made public.
Why not send it to Rachael or some of the others at MSNBC

[rurallib]

17. hope he wants to send King (or Latham) packing

every vote will be critical.

[marble falls]

18. I hear this more and more from Republicans here in Tea Party, Texas, too. It gives me hope.

[Liberal_in_LA]

25. thx for the story, sad the guy had to give all he had to pay medical bills

[Iwillnevergiveup]

26. Skidmore

Good on your listening years. This gentleman told you a lot about himself as well as what's wrong with health care in this country. Peace to both of you.

[Enthusiast]

27. K&R. Thanks for sharing that.

I hope things work out for the old fella.

[former9thward]

32. Either this story is untrue or he did not talk to an attorney.

1) In most cases he would not necessarily be responsible for his dead wife's medical bills. It depends on various facts we don't know but it certainly is not automatic that you assume these bills.

2) If he was responsible he could have filed bankrupcy and saved the home. Unlike posters up thread medical bills are dischargable in bankruptcy.

[Skidmore]

36. I only know what the man told me and

frankly, there are many people in this neck of the woods who are pretty old fashioned about debt and responsibility for it. It doesn't surprise me that someone would liquidate assets to settle debt. Lots of people have their wealth in their real property and not much else. If it were us, I don't think we would do much differently than he did. What other wealth do we have? Perhaps he was just worn down by the years of caring for a very ill wife. I don't know. But I do understand feelings of despair and helplessness when everything you confront seems like a huge mountain. I only know what he told me and he gave me no reason in tone or tenor to believe that he was telling me what was on his mind and heart.

Sometimes a thing is what it is.

[former9thward]

38. I don't doubt what you reported is what was told to you.

I have nothing against paying legitimate debt. But most medical debt is not legitimate and I don't have a problem advising people not to pay it. $20 aspirin and $150 bandages, etc. is not legitimate and should not be paid. It is a function of a medical/insurance system which is f'd up beyond belief. Unfortunately the ACA will not cure it, it will probably make it worse by dragging more people into it.

[Gary 50]

34. No more horror stories..

Obama care will end horror stories like this, thank God. I was wondering if he couldn't have sold his home and related assets to a friend or relative for some nominal amount and just kept living his life the same as before, with the 400,000 debt hanging over him but with no way for them to make him pay? Is this possible. Some might feel that they were doing something wrong by doing this but I wouldn't. It would be screwing the system that screwed him.

[rudolph the red]

37. K&R

[madrchsod]

47. my medical bills so far this year is over 450,000 thousand

medicare has picked up 80%. my wife and i are filing wage earners on my outstanding debt.

only in america where you have to have beg a thons to pay for treatments or go bankrupt because of insurance companies bottom line

[B Calm]

49. He's blaming the problems with ACA on the right politicians!

At least he gets it!

[Skidmore]

50. That was refreshing for me to hear too.

I felt badly for him because I believe he has done what he thought was right. The insurance companies are fighting this regulation tooth and nail and they sure have purchased a bunch of uncaring and corrupt politicians.