Tax... The... Fucking... Rich.... We've Had OUR Turn With Austerity...

[WillyT]

Now... It's THEIR Turn...

[kentuck]

1. You sound like a damn Democrat!

WTH?

[WillyT]

9. I Know... Don't Tell Anybody, Ok ???

[redwitch]

2. YES!

[JEFF9K]

3. It's unlikely they will move to a country with lower taxes on the rich. ...

I don't think there are any.

[Half-Century Man]

4. They can leave

their shit stays here.

[LuvNewcastle]

26. Agreed.

[Raksha]

79. I like your attitude!

[Nye Bevan]

6. In Bermuda it's zero (nt)

[Ed Suspicious]

19. Bermuda Triangle? I haven't lost hope.

[Nye Bevan]

5. Since President Obama's reelection, the top rate of income tax on the rich has increased by 4.6%.

The top rate of tax on interest income for the rich has increased by 8.4%.

The top rate of tax on capital gains and dividends for the rich has increased by 8.8%.

[WillyT]

8. Well... It's A Bit Of A Start... But Check This Out !!!

&q=90&w=640&zc=1

[Auntie Bush]

30. Make it at least 50% as they are raking in millions of dollars and they don't

really need more money. Th country NEEDS more money to operate a decent society. It's SICK to take from the poor and give to the rich.

[joeglow3]

32. To be fair, that only addresses one part of the equation

That picture does change when you factor in the other component (taxable income) and what was allowed then versus now in the form of deductions.

[rhett o rick]

56. Good point. Increasing the tax rate wont affect those that dont pay taxes. nm

[joeglow3]

66. EXACTLY 100% times 0 taxable income is zero.

[truebluegreen]

11. Big. Whoop.

90% top marginal rate sounds about right. Given that we need to pay off war debt and all.

[Nye Bevan]

15. Name any Congressman or Senator who has advocated for this. Just one.

Most of them are either already very wealthy (Nancy Pelosi and Alan Grayson, for example) or are anticipating big fat salaries when they become lobbyists or bankers after leaving Congress. Do you really think that these people would vote to impoverish themselves to that degree?

[HughBeaumont]

23. "impoverish themselves".

[truebluegreen]

27. That's the problem.

Not just the votes, but the idea that higher taxes will "impoverish" them. Good job buying into that.

[maddiemom]

45. I doubt that's Alan Grayson's goal, and Nancy Pelosi doesn't need the money. Funny you just picked

the names of two Democrat's out of thin air.

[gtar100]

60. That 90 percent figure is on income over a certain amount, not on all their income.

I suppose you already know this (and please forgive my rant if you do) but just to point it out, everyone is "supposed" to pay the same tax rate on every dollar earned. As one earns more the rate increases on the additional dollars earned only, not on any of the previous dollars. This is how a progressive tax system puts the breaks on the accumulation of excessive wealth. It doesn't penalize anyone because those who earn more still have more. But it decreases the incentive to just accumulate wealth without recirculating the money. So rather than holding onto earned income, being able to spend it on tax deductible items (such as research and development, new equipment, better working or living conditions, etc.) becomes a much more attractive alternative than paying the higher taxes.

Republicans have tax theory all wrong and are talking out of their asses when they discuss these things. Their only motivation is to accumulate as much wealth as they can without regard to the consequences on the whole economic environment. They may like the fact that the rich are getting richer but over all, the world is crumbling around them because of their avarice and greed. They're idiots.

[DFW]

61. That works for businesses

It's awkward to tell an individual to spend money on R&D, new equipment, etc.

At any rate, I live in a country where the government takes 50% of income in taxes anyway, plus 19% of everything we buy in VAT, and it doesn't take very much to get into that bracket, either. So to us, 39% looks cheap no matter how you slice it.

[99Forever]

68. You're fucking kidding right?

You can't seriously be defending the greedy 1%ers.

[Auntie Bush]

31. Yeah, a lot of the people or corporations who are making the millions voted

for the war and are now reaping the harvest. Let them pay more since they are responsible for the expense we all have to pay. The rich contractors need to pay more and their fair share...not cut food stamps to help pay down the debt.

[noiretextatique]

44. +1000 since they benefitted from OUR tax dollars used for the war

let them pay for that benefit.

[truebluegreen]

49. +100

[bvar22]

38. 39.5% on the RICHEST is historically VERY low.

...though it was brilliant 11th dimensional Chess to get Democrats cheering 39.5% on the Very RICHEST as a WIN for the Democratic Party.

in the 50s and 60s, that rate was 91% (set by a REPUBLICAN president)

in the 70s and 80s it was over 70%


During those years, we built the largest, wealthiest, and most upwardly mobile Working Class the World had ever seen.

We KNOW what works!



[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]

[Common Sense Party]

77. Who killed Wellstone?

[bvar22]

80. He "was killed" in the crash of a light Twin aircraft...

... (Beech King Air, IIRC) on a VFR approach in marginal weather.
The NTSB found "no evidence" of sabotage.

...so we don't really know.
We DO know that Cheney himself threatened Paul & his family the week before the vote on the IWR.

"At a meeting full of war veterans in Willmar, Minn., days before his death, Wellstone told attendees that Cheney told him, "If you vote against the war in Iraq, the Bush administration will do whatever is necessary to get you. There will be severe ramifications for you and the state of Minnesota."

Wellstone cast his vote for his conscience and against the Iraq measure, the lone Democrat involved in a tough 2002 election campaign to do so. And a few weeks later on Oct. 25, as he appeared to be winning his re-election bid, Wellstone, his wife, Sheila, his daughter, Marcia Markuson, three campaign staffers, and two pilots died in a plane crash in Minnesota.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x973521

I was in St Paul, working with the Campaign to re-elect Wellstone at the time of the crash.

Again, the NTSB found no evidence of sabotage.

Can our "Black Agencies" cause a light plane to crash without leaving "evidence of sabotage"?
The answer is an unequivocal YES. They do!
and can do so with the active knowledge of only a few insiders.

My opinion is that it is certainly possible that it was just a pilot error accident,
AND
it is also possible that this crash was the end result of a small, tight conspiracy
to rid the country of this troublesome loudmouth traitor.

It certainly was "convenient",
along with the other questionable deaths or marginalization of inconvenient Liberals over the last decade or so.

[lark]

55. Not anywhere good enough

The rich's taxes decreased over 30% under GW and Obama raises them 8 - sickeningly insufficient!

[Nye Bevan]

59. The top rate is back to where it was under Clinton (nt)

[mbperrin]

67. Now get it back to where it was under Eisenhower - 92%.

Economy was pretty good then - I was just a kid, of course.

[Nye Bevan]

76. Again, given that most members of Congress aspire to become lobbyists or work in banking,

earning large salaries once they return to private life, how many of them do you think would vote for a 92% top tax rate?

Here's a clue: how many members of Congress have you heard advocate for a 92% top tax rate? Take your time.....

[mbperrin]

84. I'm only talking about what I'd like.

As a practical matter, the US is finished as a country, and for the very reason you have written. Plutocracies are by nature unstable. Romans took 300 years to bleed out after death set in.

The only question is, how long til the corpse stops twitching? 20 years? 50? Somewhere in between, pure guess.

[lark]

74. Don't think so

Under Clinton the top hate hit people that earned $250,000 - today it starts at 400,000. It's still a giveaway to the rich.

[Nye Bevan]

75. The big blow for the supperrich is in the top rate.

Which is indeed the same now as it was under Clinton.

[Demo_Chris]

7. Well said. nt

[el_bryanto]

10. That's 100% correct in my opinion. nt

[JimWis]

12. YES

[christx30]

13. +1 DU needs to get a 'Like' button.

DU needs to get a 'Like' button. I'd slam my fist down on it with your post.

[WillyT]

14. Fourth Button On The Right... In The OP...

[hunter]

16. That would be a good start...

... and we also need to change the financial rules so the very wealthy can't spin their money around in schemes that do not create good jobs or benefit society in any way.

[chknltl]

17. Fourth button on the right in the OP? hmmmm...

...hmmm ...oh ok I get it, it's the 'kick' button! Don't have to tell me where the 'Recommend' button is, already on top of that. The graph was especially nice, thank you. To sum up: KnRn

[WillyT]

18. LOL !!! - No... I'm Guessing Here... But If You Aren't A "Star" Member...

Meaning donating member... it may not show up.

As I said... just guessing.

[chknltl]

20. Second button down.....

...has a number in it, left click on the number and all will be revealed. btw, I can not think of a finer bunch of folks to be in agreement with. Regarding your OP and in particular your response upthread, my radio-hero Thom Hartmann has been saying for years now exactly what your graph shows, but he has never done so as eloquently.

To sum up again: I am there, honored, loved the Spock-ears on the shrub, second kick.

[BelgianMadCow]

21. "my radio-hero Thom Hartmann"

Hey chknltl, I hope you're also aware that Thom has a show called the Big Picture over at RT these days. He regularly posts in the video & multimedia forum as well.

I also heard Thom back in the days when Randi Rhodes & Mike Malloy were my favourite programs. He sounded like the saner, calmer, even more documented older brother

[chknltl]

33. Yes, I catch Thom on Free Speech TV

I miss both Mike Malloy and Randi Rhodes, same with Norman Goldman, Stephanie Miller and Ed Shultz. Not so long ago they were my daily constant companions on the radio but then the radio station which carried them switched to all sports only and we lost those guys. For a while I could barely get a radio channel which gave us two progressive and two conservative shows but they switched that to only one progressive and the rest of the time conservatives so I gave up listening to them. Thanks to the erosion of progressives on my local radio I no longer listen to the radio much but remain a fan of Thom Hartmann and catch his shows on Free Speech TV. BTW, Thom Hartmann is my favorite fellow DUer, and on one occasion I found myself siding with his wisdom over that of some of the best scholars DU has to offer!

[bvar22]

41. Thom used to post here,

and read from DU over-the-air,
but I haven't heard him plug DU since......

[BelgianMadCow]

53. He posts (assuming it's HIS handle all right) in the vid & multimedia forum, and

I heard him plug DU (very casually, too) like "Ah, and this is from the top of DU..." on a recent show.

[BelgianMadCow]

22. Here's a TED talk with some excellent ammo to support the idea

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017158170

[xchrom]

24. du rec.

[QC]

25. You must be wunna them there "Extreme leftists" I keep hearing about,

you know, like people who believe in what were mainstream Democratic positions not so very long ago.

[WillyT]

64. Damned Tootin'

[adavid]

28. Austerity, did you say?...

When you and your family decide to live on less, that is austerity.
When the government forces you to live on less, that is dictatorship, or fascism.

[LondonReign2]

54. So are you saying the Repubs are dictators/fascists

for forcing the sequestration upon us?

[bvar22]

58. Do you know the origin of The Sequester ?

Where did it come from?

Who first proposed "The Sequester"?

So the Sequester is just another SCAM too?

Have you noticed that NOBODY is responsible for cutting Social Programs these days? Through this latest clever scam, no politician must face the Home Voters and admit that they cut Meals-on-Wheels, Head Start, closed Libraries, or the myriad other "social" programs that help the Working Class & The Poor.
It is always "The Sequester" that is causing it.

When you think about it, this is BRILLIANT Political Strategy to lend Plausible Deniability for the cutting of Social Programs to everyone involved, Democrats and Republicans.

<snip>

We didn't want it.
They say they didn't want it,
but HERE it IS:
[font size=3]"Its not MY fault.
The SEQUESTER did it"[/font]

They have gotten good at this game over the years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023612281

[LondonReign2]

73. I'm just trying to get clarity from adavid

who seems to think austerity is just fine and dandy, but actually having to pay anything in taxes is fascism.

[adavid]

82. Sorry for any confusion..

To me, austerity is when you and your family decide to make do with less or cut back on discretionary spending.

I support taxes for infrastructure, social services, pretty much all of the above.
When Government CUTS social services that we pay taxes for and calls it "austerity", and continue to shower our tax money all over Wall Street, the banks, endless wars and military bases all over the world, that is dictatorship and fascism.

[LondonReign2]

83. Thanks for the clarification

Glad that I was interpeting it incorrectly

[L0oniX]

29. Wake up! We are at war and the rich are winning it ...for now.

[KansDem]

34. "Trickle Down" didn't work...

Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.

The rich has had their taxes cut for the last 30 years. The argument was "it will create jobs!" It did not!

There is no other way to put it: "Trickle Down" did not work.

Raise taxes on the wealthy. They were suppose to create jobs with their new-found swag, but instead they moved it overseas or hid it in secret off-shore tax havens.

The wealthy did not create jobs! They didn't live up to their part of the deal!

They can start paying us back for the wealth the stole from us! NOW!!!

Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.
Repeat: "Trickle Down" did not work.

[Wounded Bear]

50. Actually, it did work (bear with me)...

It's a system designed to funnel wealth upward to the 1%/CEO class. It's been working fine.

[taught_me_patience]

35. Please explain what austerity you've been through

or are you just shouting platitudes?

[Orsino]

36. They will never know austerity...

...unless they squeeze us to the point of collapse. Then Madame Guillotine, unfortunately, will sing.

The point-one percenters have made peaceful change nearly impossible, and the regrettable result can be found in every other chapter of a basic history text. This frightens me.

[Brigid]

43. You know what JFK said:

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

[mountain grammy]

37. Can't say it enough and I have a bumper sticker: TAX THE RICH

[LongTomH]

39. Right! Fucking! On!

Yeah, it sounds like I'm channeling William Shatner; but, yeah, this gets me excited. .We need top marginal tax rates more like the FDR thru Ike era (the time of our greatest middle-class prosperity!).

[leftstreet]

40. DURec

[flashsmith99]

42. We have too many billionaires running our country!!!

and it's time to do something about it. There needs to be a federal property tax, both tangible and intangible. Something graduated, like 0% for the first 10 million and 100% after that. 10 million isn't enough to buy elections and politicians.

[Madmiddle]

46. Teapublicans

are pushing us into a civil war...

[BlueJac]

47. Poor republicans just don't get it!

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. I would be fine with the 1955 marginal tax schedule

where everyone paid more than they do now.

[blkmusclmachine]

51. HRC says we need more "unity" in DC.

That means we get screwed.

[colsohlibgal]

52. Tax them Big Time

How twisted is it to take food stamps from the needy so someone with 900 million doesn't have to pay a bit more tax?

Warren Buffet's signature line is that his secretary should not be paying at a higher rate than he does - but she is.

People need to wake up and think. Are there a few welfare queens gaming the system? Of course. But it's a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue we've lost since Reagan slashed the top tax rate drastically.

[pansypoo53219]

57. PARTISAN SACRIFICE. the 2% ain't sacrificing AT ALL.

[The Wizard]

62. But but but

the job creators, and then there's the stained blue dress.

[stage left]

63. K&R

And tax the Koch brothers twice.

[L0oniX]

65. It's time to rise up against the rich ...and all their media sock puppets.

[CFLDem]

69. I've got nothing against being wealthy

but I'm downright tired of dealing with all of their scams lately.

Tuition inflation scams, student loan scams, pharmaceutical price gouging scams, medical insurance scams, credit card rate scams... I'm starting to feel like Bubba from Forest Gump

[Brigid]

71. No one got that rich honestly.

I firmly believe that.

[nikto]

70. The Rich can't afford it

They are too poor.

The Rich will suffer from deprivation.

Can't do it.
No way.

[ailsagirl]

72. They are tightwads

They can't bear to part with their filthy money

[Coyotl]

78. Tax corporations equitably. Get rid of tax breaks and restore tax equity for individuals.

There has been a huge shift in who gets the tax load to individuals. Restore the share corporations pay.

[jazzimov]

81. the EU tried austerity measures - it didn't work.

Keynes was right.