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REP

(21,691 posts)
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:55 PM Nov 2013

Adoption harms women.

Some studies on the long-term psychological sequelae to adoption:

J Obstet Gynecol Neonatal Nurs. 1999 Jul-Aug;28(4):395-400.
Related Articles, Links

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION: Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted and information was organized under the following headings: grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.

Med J Aust. 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9.
Related Articles, Links

Psychological disability in women who relinquish a baby for adoption.

Condon JT.

During 1986, approximately 2000 women in Australia are likely to relinquish a baby for adoption. A study is presented of 20 relinquishing mothers that demonstrates a very high incidence of pathological grief reactions which have failed to resolve although many years have elapsed since the relinquishment. This group had abnormally high scores for depression and psychosomatic symptoms on the Middlesex Hospital questionnaire. Factors that militate against the resolution of grief after relinquishment are discussed. Guidelines for the medical profession that are aimed at preventing psychological disability in relinquishing mothers are outlined.

Community Health Stud. 1990;14(2):180-9.
Related Articles, Links

Erratum in:
• Community Health Stud 1990;14(3):314.

Social factors associated with the decision to relinquish a baby for adoption.

Najman JM, Morrison J, Keeping JD, Andersen MJ, Williams GM.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Queensland.

Little is known about the characteristics, social circumstances and mental health of women who give a child up for adoption. This paper reports data from a longitudinal study of 8556 women interviewed initially at their first obstetrical visit. In total, 7668 proceeded to give birth to a live singleton baby, of which 64 then relinquished the baby for adoption. Relinquishing mothers were predominantly 18 years of age or younger, in the lowest family income group, single, having an unplanned and/or unwanted baby and reported that they were not living with a partner. These women were somewhat more likely to manifest symptoms of anxiety and depression both prior, and subsequent to, the adoption, but the majority of relinquishing mothers were of 'normal' mental health. The decision to relinquish a baby appears to be a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy experienced by an economically deprived single mother rather than the result of emotional or psychological/psychiatric considerations. These findings document a particular dimension of the impact of poverty on health.


No wonder fewer than 2% of women relinquish newborns to adoption http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad306.pdf

163 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Adoption harms women. (Original Post) REP Nov 2013 OP
i've been lucky and careful.... Scout Nov 2013 #1
I'm in mostly the same boat. wickerwoman Nov 2013 #20
Pre-birth matching is inherently coercive. It puts the prospective birth mother in a position of StevieM Nov 2013 #96
So..you would abort your child....no problem.. But adoption of that same child is not an option:? Beausoir Nov 2013 #128
It's a foetus. Her Body Her Choice. I assume you support Democratic Party platform. idwiyo Nov 2013 #143
reading comprehension honey--practice it Scout Nov 2013 #151
Judgmental much? n/t ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #158
i bet given the choice they would choose being adopted rather than being aborted leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #2
Who? REP Nov 2013 #4
They would never know the difference. roody Nov 2013 #5
By that logic it's a-ok to blast someone in a coma... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #24
Seriously? Textbook anti-choicer. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #48
Someone in a coma is a person. A fetus is not a person. Mariana Nov 2013 #114
Circular logic... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #145
HA! the old Reagan "I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born" argument PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #17
Being adopted is complicated me b zola Nov 2013 #21
The adoptees I know are very, very pro-choice REP Nov 2013 #33
Wow. What a nonsensical comment HERVEPA Nov 2013 #28
And you probably don't even realize what an anti-choice talking point that is... nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #34
Please explain further. Raine1967 Nov 2013 #66
Do you always eradicate the women from this? Warpy Nov 2013 #82
. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #83
So perfectly stated. I want to save a copy of this post for future reference. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #86
"animated flowerpots"!!... SidDithers Nov 2013 #101
As usual, perfectly stated! Tumbulu Nov 2013 #106
+1 nt laundry_queen Nov 2013 #123
Comment straight out of forced-birthers manual. idwiyo Nov 2013 #144
Pinocchio can't be wrong! Major Nikon Nov 2013 #162
I was told that by a social worker who had a counseling practice and saw women who had CTyankee Nov 2013 #3
Many women and children were victims of Georgia Tann and her ilk REP Nov 2013 #6
geez, what a monster! CTyankee Nov 2013 #7
Yet she was lauded by Eleanor Roosevelt, Pearl Buck and others REP Nov 2013 #8
Human trafficking is loathsome but it is inevitable when sanctions against abortion are in place. CTyankee Nov 2013 #9
Unfortunately, it's still happening REP Nov 2013 #12
Georgia Tann is largely responsible for the framework of modern adoptions me b zola Nov 2013 #23
And wasn't it Joan crawford who abused her child so horribly Auntie Bush Nov 2013 #36
Georgia Tann sold Joan Crawford three children REP Nov 2013 #47
That's so Republican! Walk away Nov 2013 #69
Been there, done that. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #111
I've been told by people that had practice with adoption Beausoir Nov 2013 #121
was wondering where you were my sister... you can always be depended on to provide boston bean Nov 2013 #10
Glad to help! REP Nov 2013 #11
Thank you. This cannot be said often enough me b zola Nov 2013 #25
I have three cousins (siblings) and two friends (also siblings) who were adopted as infants. Jenoch Nov 2013 #13
I'm sure they are. I hope their mothers relinquished of their own free will. REP Nov 2013 #14
I have no idea of the circumstances of their adoptions. Jenoch Nov 2013 #16
Read the article and see about extreme REP Nov 2013 #18
I read the first page. Jenoch Nov 2013 #22
Yes. REP Nov 2013 #31
I read the entire article and you are mistaken. Jenoch Nov 2013 #41
how is a Genealogical society not objective? Raine1967 Nov 2013 #72
You're going on a 100 year old case study? B2G Nov 2013 #74
It actually hasn't. Raine1967 Nov 2013 #80
Using the word "most" seems accurate to me StevieM Nov 2013 #97
I prefer facts to 'seems accurate'. Jenoch Nov 2013 #120
The fact is that birth mothers never forget their children, and in many cases grieve for them StevieM Nov 2013 #122
I do not dispute that, and never have. Jenoch Nov 2013 #126
About ten years ago I worked with a young woman who opted to have her baby and did not CTyankee Nov 2013 #15
Outlaw adoption. rug Nov 2013 #19
You forgot the sarcasm thingy B2G Nov 2013 #26
Outlaw coercive "crisis pregnancy centers" REP Nov 2013 #29
It's a choice. All choices have risks and benefits. rug Nov 2013 #32
Adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy. REP Nov 2013 #35
You're repeating yourself. So will I. rug Nov 2013 #40
I think women think about these things before the pregnancy even occurs REP Nov 2013 #42
It is an option. One they elected not to take. That's choice. rug Nov 2013 #44
Your argument makes little sense. Adoption is a choice AFTER the pregnancy is over. REP Nov 2013 #49
It makes emininent sense. I'll break it down for you. rug Nov 2013 #57
Okay. REP Nov 2013 #85
Choice. rug Nov 2013 #93
A pregnant woman IS NOT a birth mother. She is an expectant mother. StevieM Nov 2013 #98
What do you think the expectant mother is expecting? rug Nov 2013 #117
The thing is gollygee Nov 2013 #56
That is a good distinction. rug Nov 2013 #67
But if there's no more pregnancy, then there's nothing else to consider REP Nov 2013 #68
The fact that adoption exists can affect that decision. rug Nov 2013 #70
That's pretty weak sauce, dude. REP Nov 2013 #71
That's pretty lame rebuttal, bub. rug Nov 2013 #73
I think many churches have a negative reaction to NOT giving up your baby for adoption StevieM Nov 2013 #99
What churches claim they believe gollygee Nov 2013 #147
AMEN!!! Pregnancy resource centers prey on the vulnerable. Women often go to them for help, StevieM Nov 2013 #116
It really did a number on my mother me b zola Nov 2013 #27
My mother-in-law was forcefully relinquished at 6 months of age REP Nov 2013 #30
Adoption IS an option B2G Nov 2013 #37
Adoption is an option to parenting, not pregnancy REP Nov 2013 #39
Well thanks for stating the obvious nt B2G Nov 2013 #45
Sadly, it doesn't seem so obvious to some. REP Nov 2013 #50
What exactly are you trying to accomplidh here? B2G Nov 2013 #52
What makes you think that? REP Nov 2013 #53
Don't be fucking coy B2G Nov 2013 #54
I cited scientific studies that found that adoption harms women REP Nov 2013 #64
The pain and suffering of birth parents offends me (eom) StevieM Nov 2013 #104
When soldiers talk about the ill effects of war (PTSD), are they demonizing military service? me b zola Nov 2013 #84
What personal experience do you have? B2G Nov 2013 #89
In 1963 my mother was forced to relinquish me me b zola Nov 2013 #95
You brought tears to my eyes with this story. And another issue to address--sealed birth records. StevieM Nov 2013 #102
Most modern adoptions are open, or some variation on open. kwassa Nov 2013 #108
First of all, many women who were forced to relinquish before open adoptions StevieM Nov 2013 #110
See the link I gave to the article in The Nation in this thread about that REP Nov 2013 #115
Yep, it does. And the media rarely acknowledges it. Somehow it has escaped the coverage during StevieM Nov 2013 #119
If you believe that, then you should meet the modern women of relinquishment that I speak to online me b zola Nov 2013 #153
and just where do you get your information? kwassa Nov 2013 #154
There are NO legal protections for a women who relinquishes her child to "open" adoption me b zola Nov 2013 #155
It would be better for you to provide some links rather than some absurd assertions. kwassa Nov 2013 #156
Yeah, okay. I got your number now me b zola Nov 2013 #157
And their children were often told lies about their mothers REP Nov 2013 #113
Thank you for sharing your story. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #43
Your mother, and other first mothers, have a special place in my heart. StevieM Nov 2013 #100
I am an adoptee who has found her birth mother Marrah_G Nov 2013 #38
Ditto! B2G Nov 2013 #46
Some of the posts in the abortion threads and in this thread really bother me Marrah_G Nov 2013 #51
I agree with you. newcriminal Nov 2013 #55
Agreed. Union Scribe Nov 2013 #58
I'm right there with you and I'm backing out B2G Nov 2013 #59
Oh you needn't worry about being banned. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #105
Adoption is a parenting choice, and it should be made freely REP Nov 2013 #60
Too late to save your shitty thread now. B2G Nov 2013 #61
From you? I agree. REP Nov 2013 #65
I don't understand why you are attacking this thread topic and the poster me b zola Nov 2013 #90
And it shouldn't have negative social consequences gollygee Nov 2013 #63
I think it is far more common for a woman to be raked over the coals for NOT choosing adoption, StevieM Nov 2013 #94
That's not what I've seen gollygee Nov 2013 #148
unbelievable newcriminal Nov 2013 #75
I am familiar with at least one agency that works with these mothers pnwmom Nov 2013 #127
Abortion has been found to not have a negative emotional sequelae REP Nov 2013 #140
True, in emotionally stable women, and with the exceptions noted. pnwmom Nov 2013 #141
There are over 4000 christian pregnancy crisis centers in the US. boston bean Nov 2013 #146
It all depends on whether the particular center is open about what it does. pnwmom Nov 2013 #152
None of those links work. ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #160
One option=no choice (eom) StevieM Nov 2013 #92
That is how it's coming across to me, too, and it's weird. pnwmom Nov 2013 #125
Don't listen to those who are trying to score nasty political points. Beausoir Nov 2013 #131
Wow - ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #159
Get the smelling salts.... Beausoir Nov 2013 #163
I am sure your adoptive parents are great, but you could also have had a good life with StevieM Nov 2013 #103
Adoption CAN harm women or can liberate women. It all depends on the situation and how uppityperson Nov 2013 #62
And the exact same thing can be said about abortion. B2G Nov 2013 #76
Indeed. Anyone who says "always" or "all" or somehow implies that each and every woman feels uppityperson Nov 2013 #77
No shit, Sherlock, it's not like giving a PUPPY away Warpy Nov 2013 #78
Antiabortion women. REP Nov 2013 #79
touche PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #81
Making adoption mandatory - as it essentially was at one time - sure as hell harms women. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #87
There are some on the right who think poor people don't deserve to keep their children REP Nov 2013 #88
So many terrible parents with plenty of money, so many great parents with little to none. nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #91
I had a friend in college who got pregnant arely staircase Nov 2013 #107
Your studies are ancient, and mostly Australian. kwassa Nov 2013 #109
Levels of Openess REP Nov 2013 #112
It's like DU is stuck back in the 1980's. The inmates are in charge of the asylum. Beausoir Nov 2013 #130
Really? Even the women who were adopted out of starvation, abuse and cruelty? Beausoir Nov 2013 #118
There is higher incidents of some debilitating illnesses & cancers among 911 first responders... me b zola Nov 2013 #133
"you should update your facts so they are not 30 years old and from Australia" Kurska Nov 2013 #135
1999 and Arizona is the first one ... so, no. REP Nov 2013 #136
I'm really curious about something. Of all the things in the word to attack, adoption? Kurska Nov 2013 #138
I suspect it was a comeback to the 'abortion harms women' line... Violet_Crumble Nov 2013 #139
I was 19 and pregnant in 1966. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #124
I am glad that you are OK with everything. StevieM Nov 2013 #129
Keeping a baby at that point in my life Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #132
I am glad that you were treated well. Many of those homes were quite different and the women StevieM Nov 2013 #137
No, I haven't. Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #142
Welp, that settles it. Ban adoption. Kurska Nov 2013 #134
DU rec...nt SidDithers Nov 2013 #149
Adoption is a legitimate choice and it is really nobody's business whether a woman chooses it. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #150
Yuck, I see this turd floated back up. Union Scribe Nov 2013 #161

Scout

(8,624 posts)
1. i've been lucky and careful....
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:10 PM
Nov 2013

and never been been pregnant. i don't know if i would choose abortion or not, entirely depends on the circumstances.

but i am pretty damn sure there is NO WAY i could give birth and then give up a baby for adoption. no way. THAT i would regret, i'm sure.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
20. I'm in mostly the same boat.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:41 PM
Nov 2013

But if I was accidentally pregnant I would consider giving a child up for adoption to a family I already knew well that was fabulous and desperately wanted a kid. I'm lucky enough to know two couples (including an aunt and uncle) that would be amazing parents and would keep me in the loop at just the right level- holiday pics a few times a year and then contact when the kid is older if he or she asks for it. Totally aware that this is *luck* and doesn't apply to other peoples' circumstances.

No way would I send a kid out to be raised by a couple I chose out of a catalog and met once or twice for coffee. If I didn't know any great couples, my only two choices would be abortion or keeping the baby.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
96. Pre-birth matching is inherently coercive. It puts the prospective birth mother in a position of
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:37 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2020, 03:08 AM - Edit history (1)

feeling like she owes it to the infertile couple to give them her baby.

And I wouldn't be so positive about how it would play out. For many adoptive couples, once they have your baby, you become the enemy and the adoption closes.

 

Beausoir

(7,540 posts)
128. So..you would abort your child....no problem.. But adoption of that same child is not an option:?
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:58 AM
Nov 2013


Let me just see if I get your post correct.

You would abort your child and have no issues with that.
But you would never let that child live and be placed with a loving family because you are too selfish to think about anyone else but yourself?


Is that what you are trying to say?

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
143. It's a foetus. Her Body Her Choice. I assume you support Democratic Party platform.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 04:41 AM
Nov 2013

Including that part about women's Right to Chose. Yes?

Scout

(8,624 posts)
151. reading comprehension honey--practice it
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:34 PM
Nov 2013

"i don't know if i would choose abortion or not, entirely depends on the circumstances. "

no, i wouldn't give one up for adoption, as i am not livestock, bound to breed for others. there are no guarantees about "loving" families, and what about the child, growing up wondering why they weren't wanted by their birth mother?

and i don't really care if some jerk on the internet thinks i'm "selfish" because i know i'm not, and "selfishness" has nothing to do with abortion.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
48. Seriously? Textbook anti-choicer.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:45 PM
Nov 2013

The second attack on the pro-choice argument that potential people are not actual people is through the harm principle. For example, suppose a couple planning to have an abortion decides at the last moment to have the baby instead. They raise their daughter Susan, and she has a relatively happy, normal life. Both parents agree, upon watching Susan get married, that aborting her would have been the ultimate violation of her human rights.

Pro-life advocates often use a more direct way of making this point. They ask: "What if this aborted baby had been you?"

This is indeed a sensational point, but, truth be told, it's actually a non sequitur. The fact is, if you had never been born, you would not be around to mourn your potential non-existence. In other words, once Susan had reached an adult age, taking all her experiences from her would be an obvious crime, because there would be a tangible victim involved: the 30-year old Susan. But robbing a future person of these experiences, a person who will never exist, is impossible: it's like trying to loot a store that will never be built. (Here we should make a clarification: it is indeed possible to harm future people who will exist, such as those future generations who must clean up our pollution and pay our deficits. But it is impossible to harm a person who will never exist. Try to imagine doing this.)


...

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-personhood.htm

 

Decaffeinated

(556 posts)
145. Circular logic...
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:27 AM
Nov 2013

My point was that it has to be more than whether or not someone can care about whether they live or die.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
21. Being adopted is complicated
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:47 PM
Nov 2013

I personally think its the biggest mind-fuck ever. I have had times that if you asked me I would have told you that I would rather have been aborted. I was surprised to find that their are other adoptees who have had those same feelings. Then again, depression & suicide are higher in the adoptee (and relinquishing mother) community than in the general population.

Every adoptee has their own complicated story and feelings. For me, I absolutely despise when people want to make me their "poster-child" in their desire to limit a woman's right to health care.

REP

(21,691 posts)
33. The adoptees I know are very, very pro-choice
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:26 PM
Nov 2013

And being made the poster child for anything because of something beyond your control must be infuriating!! Especially something so complicated as adoption.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
66. Please explain further.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:00 PM
Nov 2013

Because My first reaction to reading this comment, here on DU, is this:



and also





Warpy

(110,913 posts)
82. Do you always eradicate the women from this?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:49 PM
Nov 2013

Do antiabortionists never consider the fully human, living, breathing, and thinking person called a woman in their antiabortion equations? Or do they subscribe to the mediaeval view that women are nothing but animated flowerpots into which a man places his seed, their wishes and lives to be disregarded?

No antiabortion person has ever addressed the damage forced childbirth does to women. They can't. Everything breaks down when they have to admit there is an adult human being with her own civil rights involved.

Tumbulu

(6,267 posts)
106. As usual, perfectly stated!
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:40 PM
Nov 2013

I cannot get any of the forced birthers to discuss this, they just change the subject.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
162. Pinocchio can't be wrong!
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:49 AM
Nov 2013

One has to wonder how many spermies and eggs carelessly discarded in the garbage would have chosen life if they had just had the chance, and what about all the potential progeny of those helpless eggs and spermies? We're talking at least a Brazillion potential human life forms on a weekly basis alone.

The horror!

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
3. I was told that by a social worker who had a counseling practice and saw women who had
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:17 PM
Nov 2013

relinguished their newborns (this was before Roe). Her patients were older women who were still living with the regret and grief they had over giving up their babies. She saw the damage firsthand. These were the women who had been sent to these homes for pregnant, unmarried girls and their parents had made up stories about their going for extended visits with relatives. It was common in those days, particularly for upper middle class teens.

REP

(21,691 posts)
6. Many women and children were victims of Georgia Tann and her ilk
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:22 PM
Nov 2013

Georgia Tann not only "accepted" babies from unmarried women, she stole them from women (and families) she deemed too poor to have them. She sold them to wealthy customers, such as Joan Crawford ... or if she didn't think she could get a good price for a child, she had them killed. Hundreds of them. She is considered the Mother of Modern Adoption.

http://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html

REP

(21,691 posts)
8. Yet she was lauded by Eleanor Roosevelt, Pearl Buck and others
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:27 PM
Nov 2013

The very high death rate of her Home was noted, but it took years and years to do anything about it - there was just too much money being made off so much human misery.

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
9. Human trafficking is loathsome but it is inevitable when sanctions against abortion are in place.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:01 PM
Nov 2013

It is another reason that legalization is not only humane and respectful of women's moral agency, it is respectful of life, since it helps prevent such human misery.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
23. Georgia Tann is largely responsible for the framework of modern adoptions
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:52 PM
Nov 2013

She was the one that lobbied to seal birth records of adoptees, disconnecting and keeping a person's heritage and family a secret from them. Prior to Tann, adoptions mostly occurred within extended families and their was no legal secrecy.

Tann turned adoption into a for-profit industry. Supply & demand rather than assisting a child who needed a home.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
36. And wasn't it Joan crawford who abused her child so horribly
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:30 PM
Nov 2013

in Mommy Dearest? I had no idea she adopted that baby...poor thing! I wonder if the mother ever found out what happened to her child? I've forgotten the story behind the torture.





REP

(21,691 posts)
47. Georgia Tann sold Joan Crawford three children
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:45 PM
Nov 2013

Other celebrities of the day bought children from her, including June Allyson.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
69. That's so Republican!
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:04 PM
Nov 2013

I had one explain to me that if people who couldn't support their children or had been deemed a "poor influence" on them should have their children taken away and raised to be productive citizens.

They don't like Health Insurance for Everyone but whole scale kidnapping and brainwashing didn't seem to bother this woman at all.

 

Beausoir

(7,540 posts)
121. I've been told by people that had practice with adoption
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:09 AM
Nov 2013

that you are spreading undeucated gossip in order to further some stupid political point of view.

It is common in these days, particularly for upper class white women who have no idea what they are talking about.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
10. was wondering where you were my sister... you can always be depended on to provide
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:21 PM
Nov 2013

the stats and studies!

Thank you!

REP

(21,691 posts)
11. Glad to help!
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:09 PM
Nov 2013

Adoption is great thing when it is in the best interests of the child: dangerous, abusive parents; no parents or family to take the child in - but it is not a "solution" to an unwanted pregnancy.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
13. I have three cousins (siblings) and two friends (also siblings) who were adopted as infants.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:23 PM
Nov 2013

I am sure they are grateful to their birth mothers. I don't know if any of them have either searched for or found their birth mothers.

REP

(21,691 posts)
14. I'm sure they are. I hope their mothers relinquished of their own free will.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:26 PM
Nov 2013

Most do not - not during the Baby Scoop Era, and not now.

Read about it in The Nation

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
16. I have no idea of the circumstances of their adoptions.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:30 PM
Nov 2013

Using the word 'most' seems a bit extreme to me.

REP

(21,691 posts)
18. Read the article and see about extreme
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:33 PM
Nov 2013

Also, see the link above about Georgia Tann, The Mother of Modern Adoption. She literally stole children to sell and had the ones that wouldn't bring her enough money killed. That's extreme.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
22. I read the first page.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:48 PM
Nov 2013

My only point is the word most. Are there some numbers corroberating that 'most' adoptions are done with mothers who do not wish to give up their babies?

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
41. I read the entire article and you are mistaken.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:36 PM
Nov 2013

I really do not have a dog in this fight. I think coercive adoption as described in that article is not the right way to handle adoptions. I am also correct in saying that no where in that article does it state that 'most' adoptions in the U.S. are coercive adoptions. I like to deal in facts, not hyperbole. If you have an objective source to support your claim, I would read it.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
72. how is a Genealogical society not objective?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:10 PM
Nov 2013

ttp://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
74. You're going on a 100 year old case study?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:12 PM
Nov 2013

Shall we condemn abortions because of the practices back then as well?

This thread has lost its mind.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
80. It actually hasn't.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:36 PM
Nov 2013

The remnants of what Tann did are still being felt today.

No woman should ever be pressured to feel like she should give birth and give a child up for adoption when she never wanted to be pregnant in the first place.

That is the point of this OP.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
97. Using the word "most" seems accurate to me
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:50 PM
Nov 2013

Near as I can tell, coerced adoptions are the rule--not the exception.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
122. The fact is that birth mothers never forget their children, and in many cases grieve for them
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:19 AM
Nov 2013

for the remainder of their days.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
126. I do not dispute that, and never have.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:48 AM
Nov 2013

I also believe that women who abort their babies never forget them and in many cases grieve for them for the remainder of their days.

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
15. About ten years ago I worked with a young woman who opted to have her baby and did not
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:29 PM
Nov 2013

wish to marry the father. Boy, did he put her through an ordeal. He made her get a paternity test, even tho they had been together as a couple (in high school) not a one night stand. She proved his paternity and he now pays child support. She had supportive parents who helped her raise the boy while she worked. It was difficult. But she was strongly pro-choice.

REP

(21,691 posts)
29. Outlaw coercive "crisis pregnancy centers"
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:18 PM
Nov 2013

Adoption is great thing when it is in the best interests of the child: dangerous, abusive parents; no parents or family to take the child in - but it is not a "solution" to an unwanted pregnancy.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
32. It's a choice. All choices have risks and benefits.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:24 PM
Nov 2013

For many it is indeed an (imperfect) solution, as are all other choices.

The best interests of the child standard is used when determining custody, not pregnancy. Unless you're now saying there are other considerations at play beyond the woman's.

REP

(21,691 posts)
35. Adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:28 PM
Nov 2013

There are two options to pregnancy: remain pregnant or don't.

There are two options once birth has happened: raise the child or relinquish to someone else.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
40. You're repeating yourself. So will I.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:34 PM
Nov 2013

Of course adoption is an alternative to an unwanted pregnancy. (You managed to drop the adjective this time.) Do you think pregnant women do not consider adoption while deciding what to do??

These decisions are not made by sound bites.

REP

(21,691 posts)
42. I think women think about these things before the pregnancy even occurs
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:39 PM
Nov 2013

And something like over 98% decide that remaining pregnant and relinquishing the newborn to adoption is simply not an option for them.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
44. It is an option. One they elected not to take. That's choice.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:42 PM
Nov 2013

Others elect to take it. Are you trying to stigmatize them?

REP

(21,691 posts)
49. Your argument makes little sense. Adoption is a choice AFTER the pregnancy is over.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:47 PM
Nov 2013

I don't know how to make that clearer to you. Pictures maybe?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
57. It makes emininent sense. I'll break it down for you.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:55 PM
Nov 2013

1) A woman is pregnant.

2) The pregnancy is unwanted.

3) The woman considers her choices, all of which the law guarantees, while still pregnant.

3a) Termination
3b) Birth
3bi) Raise the child
3bii) Have another raise the child

If I read you right, you contend the woman does not consider that last item until after the baby draws a breath. That not only makes little sense, it's factually untrue.

Now, if you do have a picture that shows me to be wrong, I'd love to see it.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
98. A pregnant woman IS NOT a birth mother. She is an expectant mother.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:06 PM
Nov 2013

Even if an adoption plan has been developed. She still has the right to raise the child. But the coercion and the pressure to relinquish is usually intense. Pre-birth matching should not be allowed.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
117. What do you think the expectant mother is expecting?
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:05 AM
Nov 2013

In any event, no one is suggesting coercion. It should be a woman's free choice, whatever she decides.

I don't think your suggested ban honors that.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
56. The thing is
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:55 PM
Nov 2013

at least among women I've known . . .

They get pregnant and they decide they want an abortion, or that they don't want an abortion, but aren't 100% sure what they'll do. They do seem to be different choices. Like a woman will know adoption is a choice available if she doesn't want an abortion, but that is a separate decision.

People present it like it's an either/or choice and it's more complicated than that. And then people who think of it as a simple either/or choice don't understand all the difficulties of pregnancy and birth - and not just physical issues - and then the emotional issues associated with adoption.

Adoption is an available choice but those opposed to abortion present it as a simple alternative to abortion, and it really isn't. You have to first decide if you can keep your job if you are pregnant and have a ton of doctor appointments and potential morning sickeness and absences and then the birth and recovery and absences. You also have to figure out if the father will agree with adoption. And you have to take into account the dynamics of that relationship, and how that discussion will go. And if the relationship is a violent one, you have to consider what will happen if he refuses to relinquish the baby for adoption - will you be stuck in that relationship forever, or will you leave the baby with him for visitation even though he's violent? And if he finds out you're pregnant and says he won't relinquish the baby for adoption and then you have an aboriton, how will he respond? You have to consider the social consequences, because many of the churches that are opposed to abortion will also pretty much shun girls and women who place babies for adoption. (I've seen that happen.) Yes, anti-abortion women from anti-abortion churches have abortions because they know they'll lose their friends if their friends find out they're pregnant, and then beyond that there's an negative reaction to adoption. "How could you just give up your baby?"

And of course pregnancy and birth do not come without risk or physical difficulties. Especially for very young and very old mothers.

It is a choice but it isn't an alternative to pregnancy. It's an alternative after you've gone through the pregnancy and birth, which involve tons of consequences and things to consider.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
67. That is a good distinction.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:02 PM
Nov 2013

But it really doesn't contradict what I've been saying.

There are in fact two decisions going on.

The first is whether to terminate or not.

The second is whether to keep the baby after birth.

A woman may not ultimately decide to place the baby or to keep the baby until later on in the pregnancy or until after the birth. Still, the fact that it is an option - a choice - informs the first decision as to whether to terminate or not. As such, it is indeed an alternative.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
70. The fact that adoption exists can affect that decision.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:06 PM
Nov 2013

I suspect women consider that before selecting their ultimate choice.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
99. I think many churches have a negative reaction to NOT giving up your baby for adoption
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:11 PM
Nov 2013

Are you familiar with our last president, Mr. Bush? He was one of those people who believed that all children born out of wedlock should be placed for adoption. That is the dominant position on the far right. (Including at crisis pregnancy centers).

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
147. What churches claim they believe
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 09:08 AM
Nov 2013

and how they act when people actually are in that position are not necessarily the same.

These were anti-abortion churches that preached that people should choose adoption over abortion who were horrible to young women who actually did that.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
116. AMEN!!! Pregnancy resource centers prey on the vulnerable. Women often go to them for help,
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:01 AM
Nov 2013

and ask them to teach them how to be a good mother. Then the manipulation starts. They set out to break the woman down, and make her feel like she has no right to her own baby. Telling them you are not interested in adoption doesn't help--they continue to apply the pressure with each visit, while acting like they want to help you. They don't want to help you--they want you to give up your baby.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
27. It really did a number on my mother
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:11 PM
Nov 2013

There are no pictures of her as a child or teenager because when she returned from the maternity home where she was forced to relinquish me she burned every picture of herself that she could find. No woman should ever feel this way. Thankfully about a year after giving birth to me she met and married a wonderful man that knew about me and accepted and loved her. If not for him I'm not sure that she would have gotten through the last fifty years.

My heart goes out to women of relinquishment. I am over the moon that I am reunited with my mom and we have time to spend with each other, so many others don't get that much.

Just this past year mothers and children of relinquishment received an official apology from the government of Australia. My mother and I deserve an apology from the United States government. So do you.

Thank you for writing an informative & needed post. My mind spins and swirls when I attempt to talk about the effects of relinquishment on the mothers and children. Your thoughtfulness is appreciated.

REP

(21,691 posts)
30. My mother-in-law was forcefully relinquished at 6 months of age
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:22 PM
Nov 2013

She spent the next 75 years trying to find her family (and they tried to find her). She finally found them, but two years after her mother had died. Her mother wanted her to know that she had not been given up willingly.

My mother was never forced to relinquish, and is the one who first explained to me (as a child) why adoption as an alternative to abortion is just horseshit.

Good to see you! Thank you for insights!

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
37. Adoption IS an option
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:30 PM
Nov 2013

I swear...some on this thread are demonizing it like the right demonizes abortion.

REP

(21,691 posts)
39. Adoption is an option to parenting, not pregnancy
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:32 PM
Nov 2013

There are two options to pregnancy: remain pregnant or don't.

There are two options once birth has happened: raise the child or relinquish to someone else.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
52. What exactly are you trying to accomplidh here?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:49 PM
Nov 2013

I'm genuinely curious because you're doing your level best to paint adoption in the worst possible light.

Why?

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
54. Don't be fucking coy
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:53 PM
Nov 2013

The thread title, you references to Georgia Tann...and every damn post you've made on this thread.

Actually, as an adoptee, this entire thread offends the shit out of me.

Later.

REP

(21,691 posts)
64. I cited scientific studies that found that adoption harms women
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:59 PM
Nov 2013

Science and history offends the fuck out of you - I simply have the bad taste to know both.

See ya.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
84. When soldiers talk about the ill effects of war (PTSD), are they demonizing military service?
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:52 PM
Nov 2013

There are life-long consequences of relinquishing a child, both to the mother and the child. This needs to be repeated and explained often because of the warm, fuzzy image that is painted of adoption does not represent reality.

When you remove an infant from her mother you are removing a part of that child.



Women and their children of relinquishment have a higher incident of depression and suicide. Do you honestly believe that this little known fact should not be discussed?

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
95. In 1963 my mother was forced to relinquish me
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:30 PM
Nov 2013

I found her last January and we spend at least an hour every week on the phone with each other.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
102. You brought tears to my eyes with this story. And another issue to address--sealed birth records.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:21 PM
Nov 2013

It is ridiculous that adoptees do not have access to their original birth certificates.

Liars like Chris Christie claim that they do it to protect birth parent privacy. BULL!! Birth parents never asked for privacy, especially not during the Baby Scoop Era. They were threatened, bullied and drugged--but never given promises of privacy.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
108. Most modern adoptions are open, or some variation on open.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:16 AM
Nov 2013

people on this thread are fighting a battle that has been long over.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
110. First of all, many women who were forced to relinquish before open adoptions
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:38 AM
Nov 2013

still have no idea what happened to their children. And they desperately want to see them again before they die.

Second, many open adoptions wind up closing--real fast. And not by mutual agreement.

REP

(21,691 posts)
115. See the link I gave to the article in The Nation in this thread about that
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:49 AM
Nov 2013

Coercion and lying to desperate young women still goes on to get them to give up their babies.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
119. Yep, it does. And the media rarely acknowledges it. Somehow it has escaped the coverage during
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:07 AM
Nov 2013

National Adoption Month.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
153. If you believe that, then you should meet the modern women of relinquishment that I speak to online
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 02:28 PM
Nov 2013

There is no legal safeguards for women who relinquish in an open adoption. Almost as soon as the ink is dried, the adopters begin to close the adoption and sever ties with the first mother. The first mothers are reduced to having to jump through hoops just to get any information at all about their child.

Open adoptions my ass. I have spent time with these women as they grieve and go through the humiliation of "proving" themselves "worthy" of having any info at all about their children.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
154. and just where do you get your information?
Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:24 PM
Nov 2013

I frankly think you don't know what you are talking about.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
155. There are NO legal protections for a women who relinquishes her child to "open" adoption
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:54 AM
Nov 2013

She is at the mercy of the adopters.

There are search engines out there that can assist you with becoming familiar with a topic. You can find very large communities of women who have been lied to so that they would relinquish their child. Rather than attack me it would be better for you to understand the topic.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
156. It would be better for you to provide some links rather than some absurd assertions.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:44 AM
Nov 2013

Until then, another wacky conspiracy theory at home on DU.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
157. Yeah, okay. I got your number now
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:05 AM
Nov 2013

I used to link to women of relinquishment and of adult adoptees. But the amount of hate that came from supporters of adoption once I posted a link to these people was unthinkable. But here is a link from a discussion on huffpo on the subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11382104


How disgusting that people who say that they support adoption would be so dismissive of natural mothers and the children that they bore. Kind of like how big buisness makes billions off of labor but treats their workers like crap.

REP

(21,691 posts)
113. And their children were often told lies about their mothers
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:46 AM
Nov 2013

My MIL was wanted. She was told she wasn't. That takes its toll.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
43. Thank you for sharing your story.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:40 PM
Nov 2013

It's such a deeply personal decision and I am so sorry that your mother was not allowed to make it.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
100. Your mother, and other first mothers, have a special place in my heart.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:15 PM
Nov 2013

I know you met her for the first time recently. I hope the visit went well for both of you.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
38. I am an adoptee who has found her birth mother
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:31 PM
Nov 2013

It did effect her for a long time, but she was 16 and her mother forced her to give me up. But now she knows I have had a good life and loving parents and that eased the worry she had had. She also knows that I don't blame her or think badly of her and that I've always had only love and gratitude towards her even before we found each other.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
51. Some of the posts in the abortion threads and in this thread really bother me
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:48 PM
Nov 2013

As an adoptee I feel like this OP and some posts in the other thread are saying that my birthmother should have aborted me. Maybe they don't mean to come across like that, but frankly it does. All of a sudden adoption is a bad thing.

Unplanned pregnancies are a stressful thing. Choice means choice, whether that be abortion, adoption or keeping the child.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
58. Agreed.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:56 PM
Nov 2013

These threads have gone well beyond choice and into some nebulous realm where defending one choice means demonizing others, including now adoption. It's nuts.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
105. Oh you needn't worry about being banned.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:36 PM
Nov 2013

You can say pretty much whatever you want about women here and get away with it.

REP

(21,691 posts)
60. Adoption is a parenting choice, and it should be made freely
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:57 PM
Nov 2013

Better support, counseling and other services should be made available to the relinquishing mother. Adoption should not be treated as though it has no lasting effect on the relinquishing mother. It is often offered too glibly as a "solution" to an unplanned pregnancy when it is not; it is a parenting choice and not an easy one, and one where little, if any, consideration is given to the mother once the child is relinquished.

I actually give a crap about women.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
90. I don't understand why you are attacking this thread topic and the poster
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:26 PM
Nov 2013

If you had a daughter that was considering relinquishing a child, wouldn't you like her to be informed before making that choice?

I get that this topic makes you uncomfortable, but you seem to want to quash discussion on the matter~you don't get to do that.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
63. And it shouldn't have negative social consequences
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:59 PM
Nov 2013

I've seen young women be raked over the coals for choosing adoption, ironically by the very same people who said they shouldn't have an abortion.

It's a choice that should be available, and should be made freely without pressure, and people should be kind to women who make that choice and not treat them like pariahs.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
94. I think it is far more common for a woman to be raked over the coals for NOT choosing adoption,
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:29 PM
Nov 2013

ironically by the very same people who said they shouldn't have an abortion.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
148. That's not what I've seen
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 09:09 AM
Nov 2013

when young women have actually chosen adoption. They get shamed for getting pregnant, horribly shamed, and then they get shamed for not keeping the baby.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
127. I am familiar with at least one agency that works with these mothers
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:48 AM
Nov 2013

and in no way does it convey the sense that adoption is a trivial issue with no lasting effect on the relinquishing mother. In fact, its primary focus is helping young women who want to keep their babies, but it also will help them find adoptive parents if that's what they choose.

Few women can go through either a pregnancy-to-term or a terminated pregnancy without being affected by it. Either experience will leave an imprint on a woman's psyche.

REP

(21,691 posts)
140. Abortion has been found to not have a negative emotional sequelae
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:59 AM
Nov 2013

Abortion, as it turns out, doesn't effect a woman's well-being - except when it is denied.

Abortion doesn't affect well-being, study says

New York Times (as printed in the San Jose Mercury 2/12/97)

Abortion does not trigger lasting emotional trauma in young women who
are psychologically healthy before they become pregnant, an eight-year
study of nearly 5,300 women has shown.
Women who are in poor shape
emotionally after an abortion are likely to have been feeling bad about
their lives before terminating their pregnancies, the researchers said.

The findings, the researchers say, challenge the validity of laws
that have been proposed in many states, and passed in several, mandating
that women seeking abortions be informed of mental health risks.

The researchers, Dr. Nancy Felipe Russo, a psychologist at Arizona
State University in Tempe, and Dr. Amy Dabul Marin, a psychologist at
Phoenix College, examined the effects of race and religion on the
well-being of 773 women who reported on sealed questionnaires that
they had undergone abortions, and they compared the results with the
emotional status of women who did not report abortions.

The women, initially 14 to 24 years old, completed questionnaires and
were interviewed each year for eight years, starting in 1979. In 1980
and in 1987, the interview also included a standardized test that
measures overall well-being, the Rosenberg Self-Esteem Scale.

"Given the persistent assertion that abortion is associated with
negative outcomes, the lack of any results in the context of such a
large sample is noteworthy," the researchers wrote. The study took
into account many factors that can influence a woman's emotional
well-being, including education, employment, income, the presence of
a spouse and the number of children.

Higher self-esteem was associated with being employed, having a
higher income, having more years of education and bearing fewer children,
but having had an abortion "did not make a difference," the researchers
reported. And the women's religious affiliations and degree of involvement
with religion did not have an independent effect on their long-term
reaction to abortion. Rather, the women's psychological well-being before
having abortions accounted for their mental state in the years after the
abortion, the researchers said..

In considering the influence of race, the researchers again found
that the women's level of self-esteem before having abortions was the
strongest predictor of their well-being after an abortion.

"Although highly religious Catholic women were slightly more likely
to exhibit post-abortion psychological distress than other women, this
fact is explained by lower pre-existing self-esteem," the researchers
wrote in the current issue of Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice, a journal of the American Psychological Association.

Overall, Catholic women who attended church one or more times a week,
even those who had not had abortions, had generally lower self-esteem
than other women, although within the normal range, so it was hardly
surprising that they also had lower self-esteem after abortions, the
researchers said in interviews.

Gail Quinn, executive director of anti-abortion activities for the
United States Catholic Conference, said the findings belied the
experience of post-abortion counselors. She said, "While many women
express `relief' following an abortion, the relief is transitory."
In the long term, the experience prompts "hurting people to seek the
help of post-abortion healing services," she said.

The president of the National Right to Life Committee, Dr. Wanda
Franz, who earned her doctorate in developmental psychology, challenged
the researchers' conclusions. She said their assessment of self-esteem
"does not measure if a woman is mentally healthy," adding, "This requires
a specialist who performs certain tests, not a self-assessment of how
the woman feels about herself."

The Relationship of Abortion to Well-being: Do Race and Religion Make a Difference?
Nancy Felipe Russo and Amy J. Dabul
Professional Psychology, Research and Practice, 1997, Vol. 28, No , 23-31

Relationships of abortion and childbearing to well-being were examined for 1,189 Black and 3,147 White women. Education, income, and having a work role were positively and independently related to well-being for all women. Abortion did not have an independent relationship to well-being, regardless of race or religion, when well-being before becoming pregnant was controlled. These findings suggest professional psychologists should explore the origins of women's mental health problems in experiences predating their experience of abortion, and they can assist psychologists in working to ensure that mandated scripts from 'informed consent' legislation do not misrepresent scientific findings.


RUSSO, NANCY FELIPE
ZIERK, K.
Abortion, Childbearing, and Women's Well-Being
Professional Psychology, Research and Practice 23 (1992): 269-280. Also, http://www.prochoiceforum.org.uk/psy_resea...
Cohort(s): NLSY79
ID Number: 4029
Publisher: American Psychological Association (APA)

This study is based on a secondary analysis of NLSY interview data from 5,295 women who were interviewed annually from 1979 to 1987. Among this group 773 women were identified in 1987 as having at least one abortion, with 233 of them reporting repeat abortions. Well-being was assessed in 1980 and 1987 by the Rosenberg Self-Esteem Scale. The researchers used analysis of variance (ANOVA) and multiple regression to examine the combined and separate contributions of preabortion self-esteem, contextual variables (education, employment, income, and marital status), childbearing (being a parent, numbers of wanted and unwanted children) and abortion (having one abortion, having repeat abortions, number of abortions, time since last abortion) to women's post abortion self-esteem.




Most Women Do Not Feel Distress, Regret After Undergoing Abortion, Study Says



The majority of women who choose to have legal abortions do not experience regret or long-term negative emotional effects from their decision to undergo the procedure, according to a study published in the June issue of the journal Social Science & Medicine, NewsRx.com/Mental Health Weekly Digest reports. Dr. A. Kero and colleagues in the Department of Clinical Sciences, Obstetrics and Gynecology at University Hospital in Umea, Sweden, interviewed 58 women at periods of four months and 12 months after the women's abortions. The women also answered a questionnaire prior to their abortions that asked about their living conditions, decision-making processes and general attitudes toward the pregnancy and the abortion. According to the study, most women "did not experience any emotional distress post-abortion"; however, 12 of the women said they experienced severe distress immediately after the procedure. Almost all of the women said they felt little distress at the one-year follow-up interview. The women who said they experienced no post-abortion distress had indicated prior to the procedure that they opted not to give birth because they "prioritized work, studies, and/or existing children," according to the study. According to the researchers, "almost all" of the women said the abortion was a "relief or a form of taking responsibility," and more than half of the women said they experienced positive emotional experiences after the abortion such as "mental growth and maturity of the abortion process" (NewsRx.com/Mental Health Weekly Digest, 7/12).

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports...

The psychological sequelae of therapeutic abortion--denied and completed

PK Dagg
Department of Psychiatry, Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Ont., Canada.

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this article is to review the available literature on the psychological sequelae of therapeutic abortion, addressing both the issue of the effects of the abortion on the woman involved and the effects on the woman and on the child born when abortion is denied. METHOD: Papers reviewed were initially selected by using a Medline search. This procedure resulted in 225 papers being reviewed, which were further selected by limiting the papers to those reporting original research. Finally, studies were assessed as to whether or not they used control groups or objective, validated symptom measures. RESULTS: Adverse sequelae occur in a minority of women, and when such symptoms occur, they usually seem to be the continuation of symptoms that appeared before the abortion and are on the wane immediately after the abortion. Many women denied abortion show ongoing resentment that may last for years, while children born when the abortion is denied have numerous, broadly based difficulties in social, interpersonal, and occupational functions that last at least into early adulthood. CONCLUSIONS: With increasing pressure on access to abortion services in North America, nonpsychiatrist physicians and mental health professionals need to keep in mind the effects of both performing and denying therapeutic abortion. Increased research into these areas, focusing in particular on why some women are adversely affected by the procedure and clarifying the relationship issues involved, continues to be important.
Am J Psychiatry 1991; 148:578-585
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/conten...


Psychological sequelae of medical and surgical abortion at 10-13 weeks gestation.

Ashok PW, Hamoda H, Flett GM, Kidd A, Fitzmaurice A, Templeton A.

From the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Aberdeen, Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, Aberdeen, UK.

Background. Although not much research comparing the emotional distress following medical and surgical abortion is available, few studies have compared psychological sequelae following both methods of abortion early in the first trimester of pregnancy. The aim of this review was to assess the psychological sequelae and emotional distress following medical and surgical abortion at 10-13 weeks gestation. Methods. Partially randomized patient preference trial in a Scottish Teaching Hospital was conducted. The hospital anxiety and depression scales were used to assess emotional distress. Anxiety levels were also assessed using visual analog scales while semantic differential rating scales were used to measure self-esteem. A total of 368 women were randomized, while 77 entered the preference cohort. Results. There were no significant differences in hospital anxiety and depression scales scores for anxiety or depression between the groups. Visual analog scales showed higher anxiety levels in women randomized to surgery prior to abortion (P < 0.0001), while women randomized to surgical treatment were less anxious after abortion (P < 0.0001). Semantic differential rating scores showed a fall in self-esteem in the randomized medical group compared to those undergoing surgery (P = 0.02). Conclusions. Medical abortion at 10-13 weeks is effective and does not increase psychological morbidity compared to surgical vacuum aspiration and hence should be made available to all women undergoing abortion at these gestations.
Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 2005 Aug;84(8) 61-6.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...


Post abortion syndrome: myth or reality?

Koop CE.

What are the health effects upon a woman who has had an abortion? In his letter to President Reagan, dated January 9, 1989, Surgeon General C. Everett Koop wrote that in order to find an answer to this question the Public Health Service would need from 10 to 100 million dollars for a comprehensive study.

PIP: At a 1987 briefing for Right to Life leaders, the author--US Surgeon General C Everett Koop--was requested to prepare a comprehensive report on the health effects (mental and physical) of induced abortion. To prepare for this task, the author met with 27 groups with philosophical, social, medical, or other professional interests in the abortion issue; interviewed women who had undergone this procedure; and conducted a review of the more than 250 studies in the literature pertaining to the psychological impact of abortion. Every effort was made to eliminate the bias that surrounds this controversial issue. It was not possible, however, to reach any conclusions about the health effects of abortion. In general, the studies on the psychological sequelae of abortion indicate a low incidence of adverse mental health effects. On the other hand, the evidence tends to consist of case studies and the few nonanecdotal reports that exist contain serious methodological flaws. In terms of the physical effects, abortion has been associated with subsequent infertility, a damaged cervix, miscarriage, premature birth, and low birthweight. Again, there are methodological problems. 1st, these events are difficult to quantify since most abortions are performed in free-standing clinics where longterm outcome is not recorded. 2nd, it is impossible to casually link these adverse outcomes to the abortion per se. Resolution of this question requires a prospective study of a cohort of women of childbearing age in reference to the variable outcomes of mating--failure to conceive, miscarriage, abortion, and delivery. Ideally, such a study would be conducted over a 5-year period and would cost approximately US$100 million
Health Matrix. 1989 Summer;7(2):42-4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

Psychological sequelae of induced abortion.

Romans-Clarkson SE.

Department of Psychological Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, Dunedin, New Zealand.

This article reviews the scientific literature on the psychological sequelae of induced abortion. The methodology and results of studies carried out over the last twenty-two years are examined critically. The unanimous consensus is that abortion does not cause deleterious psychological effects. Women most likely to show subsequent problems are those who were pressured into the operation against their own wishes, either by relatives or because their pregnancy had medical or foetal contraindications. Legislation which restricts abortion causes problems for women with unwanted pregnancies and their doctors. It is also unjust, as it adversely most affects lower socio-economic class women.

PIP: A review of empirical studies on the psychological sequelae of induced abortion published since 1965 revealed no evidence of adverse effects. On the other hand, this review identified widespread methodological problems--improper sampling, lack of data on women's previous psychiatric history, a scarcity of prospective study designs, a lack of specified follow-up times or evaluation procedures, and a failure to distinguish between legal, illegal, and spontaneous abortions--that need to be addressed by psychiatric epidemiologists. Despite these methodological weaknesses, all 34 studies found significant improvement rather than deterioration in mental status after induced abortion. There was also a high degree of congruity in terms of predictors of adverse reactions after abortion--ambivalence about the procedure, a history of psychosocial instability, poor or absent family ties, psychiatric illness at the time of the pregnancy termination, and negative attitudes toward abortion in the broader society. As expected, criminal abortion is more likely than legal abortion to be associated with guilt, and women who have been denied therapeutic abortions report significantly greater psychosocial difficulties than those who have been granted abortion on the grounds of their precarious mental health. Overall, the research clearly attests that abortion carried out at a woman's request has no deleterious psychiatric consequences. Problems arise only when the woman undergoes pregnancy termination as a result of pressure from others. Legislation that undermines the ability of the pregnant woman to assess herself the impact of an unwanted pregnancy on her future impedes mental health and should be opposed by the psychiatric profession.
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1989 Dec;23(4):555-65
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

Psychological and social aspects of induced abortion.

Handy JA.

The literature concerning psychosocial aspects of induced abortion is reviewed. Key areas discussed are: the legal context of abortion in Britain, psychological characteristics of abortion-seekers, pre- and post-abortion contraceptive use, pre- and post-abortion counselling, the actual abortion and the effects of termination versus refused abortion. Women seeking termination are found to demonstrate more psychological disturbance than other women, however this is probably temporary and related to the short-term stresses of abortion. Inadequate contraception is frequent prior to abortion but improves afterwards. Few women find the decision to terminate easy and most welcome opportunities for non-judgemental counselling. Although some women experience adverse psychological sequelae after abortion the great majority do not. In contrast, refused abortion often results in psychological distress for the mother and an impoverished environment for the ensuing offspring.
Br J Clin Psychol. 1982 Feb;21 (Pt 1):29-41.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
141. True, in emotionally stable women, and with the exceptions noted.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:15 AM
Nov 2013

For example: "Women most likely to show subsequent problems are those who were pressured into the operation against their own wishes, either by relatives or because their pregnancy had medical or foetal contraindications."

No one should be pressured to either have an abortion or not have one. The decision should be completely up to the woman and the procedure should be available and affordable to all.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
146. There are over 4000 christian pregnancy crisis centers in the US.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:35 AM
Nov 2013

Hell, that's more than the approx 1800 abortion clinics in the US.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
152. It all depends on whether the particular center is open about what it does.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:33 PM
Nov 2013

I know of one that is completely open about what it does -- help young women who need help to keep their babies. But a small number of women each year end up deciding at some point to release their babies for an adoption instead.

No one goes to this place expecting to get advice on abortion.

It costs a lot more money and time to help a homeless 16 year old through a pregnancy -- and the years afterwards (this place offers counseling, parenting classes, and has a clothing bank, diaper bank, etc.) than it does to provide abortions. So if there are more of these than abortion clinics, that makes sense to me.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
160. None of those links work.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:48 AM
Nov 2013

I would really like to have the information you posted and working links.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
125. That is how it's coming across to me, too, and it's weird.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:43 AM
Nov 2013

There should be no "should" involved in any woman's pregnancy/birth decision, whether to abort, carry to term, release for adoption, or keep.

Only the mother (and father, after the birth) can make that choice.

 

Beausoir

(7,540 posts)
131. Don't listen to those who are trying to score nasty political points.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:11 AM
Nov 2013

I was blessed with 3 daughters through adoption.

Marrah...you KNOW that you matter. Don't let the sickos get you down.


There are some pretty sick tickets here...and they just want to make others feel bad.


DU is a very very toxic place. It's a place where Skinner makes more money if people tear each other apart.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
159. Wow -
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:46 AM
Nov 2013

if DU is so toxic maybe you shouldn't be here especially if you are going to attack Skinner and other DUers.

 

Beausoir

(7,540 posts)
163. Get the smelling salts....
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 01:16 AM
Nov 2013

I see you were forced to read my opinion and doing so has given you the vapors.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
103. I am sure your adoptive parents are great, but you could also have had a good life with
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:27 PM
Nov 2013

your first mother. She should have had a choice. No one should be forced to be a birth mother.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
62. Adoption CAN harm women or can liberate women. It all depends on the situation and how
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:58 PM
Nov 2013

it is done, as well as what support she has.

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
77. Indeed. Anyone who says "always" or "all" or somehow implies that each and every woman feels
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:18 PM
Nov 2013

reacts, does any of this in the exact same way is sadly mistaken. Yes, I am sure there are some who feel the same, but it is very individualized.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
78. No shit, Sherlock, it's not like giving a PUPPY away
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:23 PM
Nov 2013

This is why people who say they want to ban abortion to increase the pool of adoptive infants are both cruel and unrealistic.

Antiabortion men consistently ignore the very real threats to health, employment, family support, finances and LIFE an unwanted pregnancy presents. They consistently lie about how easy it is to give up one's offspring to an unknown stranger.

Is there any more useless creature on the face of the earth than an antiabortion MAN?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
87. Making adoption mandatory - as it essentially was at one time - sure as hell harms women.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:16 PM
Nov 2013

I know I'm preaching to the choir but anti-choicers are just going to have to accept keeping first-trimester abortions, at the very least, fully legal. Otherwise, not only do they deserve the "forced-birther" label, as far as I'm concerned they deserve to be retroactively "aborted."

REP

(21,691 posts)
88. There are some on the right who think poor people don't deserve to keep their children
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:22 PM
Nov 2013

I know we agree: richer doesn't mean better (or worse) parents. We should help the poorer ones - and their children.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
91. So many terrible parents with plenty of money, so many great parents with little to none.
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:26 PM
Nov 2013

Socioeconomic status is far from the only important factor in a person's upbringing.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
107. I had a friend in college who got pregnant
Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:46 PM
Nov 2013

and gave the baby up for adoption. She stays sort of in touch with the kid who graduates from high school this year. Giving up that baby, I promise you, has caused he grief to this day.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
109. Your studies are ancient, and mostly Australian.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:31 AM
Nov 2013

and you have proven no causative link between your reported "harm" of women, and the percentage of women who choose to put their child up for adoption. Weak tea, indeed, for such a polemic.

I think you need a new grindstone for your axe.

Speaking as an adoptive parent, the conditions for modern domestic adoption are often completely open. We met the birth mother. She can contact us any time.

REP

(21,691 posts)
112. Levels of Openess
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:44 AM
Nov 2013
The percentage of adoptions in which contact is maintained varies over time. The California Long-Range Adoption Study looked at contact patterns over four waves (2, 4, 8, and 14 years after adoption). In one longitudinal study, the percentages of adoptive families in contact with the birth families were as follows: 59 percent after 2 years, 46 percent after 4 years, 60 percent after 8 years, and 39 percent after 14 years (Crea & Barth, 2009). For those who maintained openness, the mean number of contacts (mail, phone, and in person) between the adopted person and the birth parents increased each year, from 7.4 contacts per year 4 years after the adoption to 25.6 contacts per year 14 years after the adoption.

The parties involved in the contacts may vary in open adoptions. In one study, 21 percent of adoptive parents and 22 percent of persons adopted from foster care had contact with the birth family (Faulkner & Madden, 2012). When looking at private adoption, 50 percent of adoptive parents were in contact with the birth families, yet only 37 percent of adopted persons were in contact with their birth family.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_openadoptbulletin.pdf

 

Beausoir

(7,540 posts)
118. Really? Even the women who were adopted out of starvation, abuse and cruelty?
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:05 AM
Nov 2013

Words can't describe how stupid your post is.


As a mom who has adopted several special needs kids, I can say with all certainty that your post makes me swell with pride at how awesome my family is and how amazing my girls are.



I've heard from many anti adoption nutters in my life and you are pretty mild and meek. If you want to get really rabid...you should update your facts so they are not 30 years old and from Australia.

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
133. There is higher incidents of some debilitating illnesses & cancers among 911 first responders...
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:25 AM
Nov 2013

...than there is in the general population. Did I just state or even infer that all 911 first responders are dying of a disease related to 911? Of course not, but if you wanted to shut down a conversation for whatever your motivation you could intentionally misread that statement.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
135. "you should update your facts so they are not 30 years old and from Australia"
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:28 AM
Nov 2013

I believe that is what we in the biz call a verbal smack down.

Congrats to you for your happy family.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
138. I'm really curious about something. Of all the things in the word to attack, adoption?
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:42 AM
Nov 2013

Really?

Like really?

...I mean really.

As a gay person, I understand what it likes to to have someone degrade and attack your family. I really thought better of DU.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
139. I suspect it was a comeback to the 'abortion harms women' line...
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:47 AM
Nov 2013

IMO, it could have been worded a bit better, as there's some threads in here today that do come across like they're attacking adoption as a choice. I saw things saying adoption's not an alternative, and thanks to DU I now realise that one of the three options I considered when I found myself with an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy wasn't actually an alternative. There ya go. I learn something new every day!

I don't really see any difference between these threads going on about how bad adoption is and ones going on about how bad abortion is. It's just a shame people can't keep their noses out of other women's reproductive choices.

I hope DU goes back to normal tomorrow, coz all these threads are starting to get irksome in the polarisation they're trying to cause...

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
124. I was 19 and pregnant in 1966.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:34 AM
Nov 2013

I spent three months at the Methodist Home for unwed mothers in San Antonio (the cover story being that I was spending the summer with my grandparents in Florida). My parents were supportive. I was not in any way in love with the father and marriage was out of the question for me. I gave the baby up for adoption because I felt then, and still do, that it was best for all concerned. Abortions were illegal then and not something that I particularly wanted to go through having sat with a friend who went through a rather gruesome experience aborting twins. I have had no regrets about my decision and consider that I'm very well adjusted, not wracked with guilt or any other psychological issues. I do wonder sometimes how he's doing, but I am not sorry I did what I did.

Had abortions been safe and legal then, I might have considered it, but I can't be sure. Bottom line is it's a woman's choice, and no one should be made to feel guilty or "damaged" no matter what her decision.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
129. I am glad that you are OK with everything.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:04 AM
Nov 2013

Not all women are so lucky. And back in 1966 keeping the baby wasn't an option for most--there is a reason it was called "the Baby Scoop Era." (Actually, the First Mothers Forum, one of the most well known birth mother sites on the internet, is populated by a lot of women who relinquished in 1966, including the sites proprietors).

I hope you had a good experience at the home you mentioned. But a lot of those places were ruthless and brutal, and gave the woman absolutely no choice but to give up their children.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
132. Keeping a baby at that point in my life
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:19 AM
Nov 2013

was the last thing in the world I wanted to do. I seem to recall at least one of the other women making the choice to keep her baby, and as far as I know, she was allowed to do so. Nothing is final until the papers are signed.

As for a good experience, you haven't lived until you've spent three months living with 60 pregnant teenagers and 20-somethings. We had chores and responsibilities, but the place was hardly ruthless and brutal. I think they felt like they were performing a useful service at the time, and they tried to be kind, good Methodists that they were. I spent my time taking correspondence courses so that I didn't get behind on my college track.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
137. I am glad that you were treated well. Many of those homes were quite different and the women
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:40 AM
Nov 2013

who resided in them were not given much of a choice but to relinquish.

Did you ever try to locate your son on an on-line reunion site?

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
142. No, I haven't.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:29 AM
Nov 2013

I've thought about it, but I think it might be kind of disruptive to everyone, not the least of which my husband and daughters.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
150. Adoption is a legitimate choice and it is really nobody's business whether a woman chooses it.
Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:10 PM
Nov 2013

I am 100% pro-choice on both abortion and adoption.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Adoption harms women.