Edward Snowden Is Almost Broke

[struggle4progress]

Famed NSA leaker has run through his savings
By Noah Rayman
Nov. 12, 2013

NSA leaker Edward Snowden has burned through his savings and is almost out of money, according to his lawyer.

“The savings he had, he has almost entirely spent on food, rent, security and so on,” Anatoly Kucherena told the Russian newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta in an interview published on Tuesday ...

http://world.time.com/2013/11/12/edward-snowden-is-almost-broke/

[SidDithers]

1. ...

Sid

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. Ah, always the patriot, Sid.

The NSA is spying on us...frankly eerybody like it's going out of style, somebody talks about it, and who shoulders the blame?

[closeupready]

15. Yes. An unnecessary snipe, but a predictable one.

There are many here, I suppose, who profit handsomely from the Big Brother surveillance infrastructure. The instinct for self-preservation would drive such individuals to, among other things, attack reflexively 'enemies of the state', a/k/a a kind of paranoia paradigm.

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. seriously???

You think anyone on DU who doesn't "reflexively" support what Snowden has done, is an NSA spy themselves "profiting handsomely" from Big Brother Surveillance....and you are calling THEM paranoid? I would like to know where this "handsome profit" is....

[Whisp]

75. I'd even settle for a handsome prophet.

lol. I just poured a cup of Tim Horton's coffee for Big Brother, who is sitting right beside me controlling every thought and keystroke I make. Oh, he just petted my dog.

[randome]

85. LOL!

Beware of the dust bunnies he leaves in his wake!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Mojorabbit]

126. I thought you all implied he had sold the info and prob turned a fine profit. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

143. GG is apparently the one that "profited"!

[Chan790]

176. Seriously...I could use the $. n/t

[Sheepshank]

104. Are you super serious?

a violin for Snowden is the same as an NSA shill?

you need to get out little more and understand diversity of thought.

[treestar]

128. They aren't spying on us

That is such an overwrought way of putting it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

151. OK

[treestar]

163. The laughing emoticon is better suited to

anyone who thinks the government is "spying on them."

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

165. The bury your head in the sand emoticon

works better for yours.

[ronnie624]

174. Actually, what they are doing is much more serious.

Spying is unnecessary, because they are amassing a search-able database of detailed information on every citizen. They won't need to spy, because they will have intimate details about your life at their fingertips. Their power over us will only grow with advancing computer technology and ever-increasing surveillance. The implications for the effects on future dissent and any attempts at reforming our corrupt, money-driven system, are quite grave.

[treestar]

181. All they have is telephone numbers

And what good would it even do them? The idea that the corporations control the media would be a much better way of making sure people vote as they want. I don't even see what they could do with this information. Anyone who is ordinary and not in any leadership position can't even be harmed by it.

[ronnie624]

185. "Anyone who is ordinary and not in any leadership position can't even be harmed by it."

Translation:

'If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about.'

The claim that they are collecting only "meta data" is bogus as hell.

[treestar]

187. Wrong.

What can the government even do with that information? If you had any familiarity with it, you would know it couldn't track all that to save its existence.

I'm not anti-government, but it simply does not have time/manpower/efficiency to track ordinary people in any fashion. It's lucky it gets taxes out of them. The IRS is far more intrusive and knows much more about us ordinary people than any other agency. The CIA can't even do anything with that information.

At bottom of all this hysteria is, why bother? Why would the government even need to do this? What advantage could it possibly gain?

Free enterprise is far more intrusive - at least they have reasons in wanting to know what ads to pitch to you. Thus they invest in it and can tell what ads to put up based on your browsing. But the government just doesn't have the budget for it.

[rug]

12. ...

[Laelth]

23. .

-Laelth

[hack89]

2. The US government is willing to give him a lifetime of free housing and meals

If he were to simply come home.

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. !!!

[TwilightGardener]

4. Heh.

[Historic NY]

10. & cable tv.

[Progressive dog]

21. True and funny nt

[Laelth]

37. DUzy. n/t

-Laelth

[uponit7771]

48. +1

[Whisp]

106. ha!

and a lifetime supply of orange pjamas.

[flamingdem]

114. true dat!

though don't think Obama wants to deal with the mess a trial would cause here.

[riqster]

154. DUzy!

Yes, another nomination.

[sagat]

155. .

[MADem]

178. If he'd only spilled the beans to someone on the Senate Intel Committee, like say, his hero,

Rand Paul, he'd have plenty of money--he'd probably have written his own book by now and been a regular on Fox and Friends pulling down a huge salary to offer up dozens of iterations of "Obama Baaad." Instead of freezing his ass off in Mutha Russia, he could be going on the college speaking circuit telling his audiences who deserved to be shot in the gonads this week (to riff on his Ars Technica rant about how he once felt about leakers).

GG is making a bundle off Snowden; I wonder if he is going to share the profits from the new book he's got dropping that is about the Boy Wonder?

I thought he'd gotten a job--surely in wonderful, liberal, surveillance-free Russia he's able to make his way? Or are the heating bills THAT pricey in winter in that neck of the woods?

Pootie's KGB -- well, they don't call 'em that anymore, but SSDD--will soon have him just where they want him (assuming they don't, already). His little Wiki companion has fled to Germany, leaving him seduced and abandoned, and all he has to rely on is his lawyer, Pootie's pal from the KGB, who will probably convince him that it's a great idea to "talk" to people in exchange for continued succor.

And once they do that, and get everything they want from him, until there is no more to give, they can either just not renew his residency certification, or they can make life so miserable for him that going home to America would probably be a viable and more pleasant option than any alternative involving continued residency in Russia.

[treestar]

182. I remember a lot of gloating that the Russians had given him a job

So what happened to that is a good question.

His supposedly libertarian views would have to be daily bothered by everything he sees there.

[treestar]

183. Nope, ten years at most

That was the max penalty for the charges against him.

[hack89]

188. Enough to get him back on his feet

Save some money, take some vo-tech classes - prepare for a better job than he has now.

[treestar]

189. I wonder who would hire him

Given his history, it's going to be a hard sell that an employer can trust him!

[hack89]

191. Do we have a jobs wanted forum on DU?

He has plenty fanbois here.

[treestar]

192. At this point he may not have to work

He can find him a sugar mamma. He's so handsome and heroic! Need not work another day in his life. Surely some good woman will understand him and what he's giving to the nation.

[JI7]

6. looks like they are looking to get donations

[BenzoDia]

7. That was my first thought as well. Get your pocket books open of you love freedom!

[grantcart]

14. In fact I believe that struggle4progress is planning a car wash to raise money!!

[LAGC]

19. ...

[ZombieHorde]

8. Well, that news should make some people he

never harmed very happy.

[Katashi_itto]

13. To damn true

[Nye Bevan]

9. I guess Russia isn't "to each according to his needs" anymore (nt)

[UTUSN]

11. He was *paying* for something?!1 PootyPoot not kicking something?!1 Hawaii was BETTER!! n/t

[Electric Monk]

16. Was someone implying he did it just to get rich? He has higher ideals. nt

[KittyWampus]

34. lol

[uponit7771]

49. +1

[treestar]

129. +2

He didn't do it to get rich. He did it out of a need for attention.

[woo me with science]

64. You can't parody the desperation of the propaganda machine.

It appears they have noticed that *greed* is an issue that resonates with the public....the millions of Americans being driven into poverty by our corrupt, corporate-purchased government.

So now they are trying to transfer the accusations of "greed" to a journalist who is exposing the corporate surveillance state. And the corporations are the ones SAVING us from him!

Just wait 'til Greenwald buys a latte, and they get ahold of the receipt!

[MADem]

199. So, you're saying GG didn't write a book or option it for sale as a movie?

That's all in our heads?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/business/media/hollywood-ponders-movie-on-book-about-snowden.html?_r=0

LOS ANGELES — For more than a week, Hollywood has been exploring what could be one of the most difficult nonfiction projects it has ever tried: a proposed film based on the journalist Glenn Greenwald’s planned book about Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive whistle-blower.

As of late Friday, it was not clear that any studio had secured a deal. But 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures Entertainment and the cable television powerhouse HBO were among potential buyers that had considered the project, according to several people who were briefed on it, but spoke on condition of anonymity because of confidentiality strictures.

Mr. Greenwald’s planned book, which is based on his close contact with Mr. Snowden and promises fresh revelations about government and corporate intelligence-gathering, is set for publication next March by Macmillan’s Metropolitan Books imprint. ..... Further complexities involved the structure of any proposed deal. Mr. Greenwald is selling the rights to his book and may include his own life rights. But his journalistic collaborator, Laura Poitras, and Mr. Snowden have not put their own life rights for sale, according to the people briefed on the film. That leaves potential buyers to rely on legal precepts of fair use in portraying them, or on their assurances that they will not seek to interfere with a movie......

But hey, run on over to Amazon and pre-order your "I'm Not Trying To Make a Buck" book about Snowden, authored by GG, for a mere twenty one bucks and a penny! Such a bargain! Ka-ching, ka-ching!

And that ain't "propaganda." That's what GG is doing--he's selling his story, he's using Snowden and Poitras to enrich himself.

It is what it is, and it ain't propaganda.

[hunter]

17. I've been out of money for a long time and time.com doesn't seem to care...

[randome]

18. Well, you can't believe everything a lawyer says.

Snowden has a job now, doesn't he? Maybe he simply needs to live within his means.

But I suspect Putin's only game plan is to wait it out until Snowden is disillusioned enough to return to the U.S. on his own.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[SidDithers]

20. And winter is coming...

Moscow in January might be a bit different than Hawaii.

Sid

[msanthrope]

33. Moscow in July is different from Hawaii. Really, really different. nt

[NuclearDem]

22. While DiFi, Clapper, and Alexander are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Enthusiast]

101. +1

[woo me with science]

148. [phone]

Two reasons for the monstrous surveillance machine:

1) Total information awareness FOR PROFIT

and

2) A surveillance state to prevent resistance by those being exploited FOR PROFIT.

[JaneyVee]

24. Should've been writing a book and collecting royalties.

[msanthrope]

30. I am sure Glenn Greenwald will share. nt

[Sheepshank]

107. There is that Palin schtick that he could emulate....

...and step 1...reaching out because he is broke is a good start.

[NCTraveler]

25. Well Mr. Snowden, live withing your means.

That's what the rest of us have to do. You are employed and surrounded by your comrades. You make a paycheck.

This might be a precursor to asking for donations. There is a sucker born every minute. There are people who probably make less than him who will be willing to give him 5 or more bucks.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. You mean that Walmart call center job in Russia?

And Russia isn't giving him Food Stamps and Medicaid to supplement his McRussian salary?

[NCTraveler]

71. I am sure he is receiving something for his health.

Maybe something odorless in his tea. That is Putins MO.

[davidpdx]

172. I don't think this is a precursor, it is a plea for donations

You are absolutely right about there being a sucker born every minute. A bunch of them are on DU.

Maybe everyone who bitches about how poor Edward being stuck in Russia and abused should open their wallets and donate $10. Feel free to post the receipt without the CC information.

There are at least 10 of them in this thread, that's $100. So where are the receipts?

Yeah that's what I thought.

[snot]

26. Financial strangulation is one of many weapons the powerful wield.

Those ever stand up to the powerful have nothing to worry about.

[tridim]

27. All that matters is that GG is getting richer.

That was his goal.

[tman]

28. Snowden is a self-admitted Ron Paul conservative.

Time to pull himself up by those bootstraps.

[woo me with science]

31. Oh, look. The corporate smear brigade is on the job.

These threads, and the manufactured swarms on them, have no credibility whatsoever. All they demonstrate is how dangerous Snowden's message is perceived to be by the One Percent.

States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines.

[tridim]

35. Do you object to Snowden being used by a corporate news hack and RW libertarian for profit?

Or is that brand of corporate bullshit okay with you?

[woo me with science]

44. I KNOW! IT IS ALL ABOUT LIBERTARIANS!!!!

It has NOTHING to do with an unconstitutional surveillance state! And poor Snowden is a VICTIM. Except when he is EVIL! But today he is a VICTIM!

In fact, I bet Greenwald and some other dirty, sneaky LIBERTARIANS planned this from way, way back! Maybe even when they were TEENAGERS and falling into DIRTY LIBERTARIAN circles!

It was a sneaky, brilliant plan. Because it required FOOLING THE NATION! It required TRICKING people into thinking that governments spying on their own people is a problem! When everybody knows it really isn't! Just ask the GERMANS! Or the RUSSIANS! Everybody knows a SURVEILLANCE STATE is GOOD! And AMERICAN! Only a dirty LIBERTARIAN would FOOL the people into thinking it is bad!

Because governments SHOULD spy on us! For our own PROTECTION! We should THANK the NSA for spending BILLIONS of our TAX DOLLARS spying on everything we do and STORING IT just in case they need it later!

They would never abuse that power! Because they are not LIBERTARIANS! Only LIBERTARIANS cannot be trusted!

And you are right about the MONEY! Greenwald TRICKED Snowden into pretending he cares about the Constitution, so he could buy a YACHT! Because Libertarians are MONEY GRUBBING. And DEVIOUS! They are SO DEVIOUS that they convince people that the CORPORATIONS are the ones LOOTING THE COUNTRY... when it is REALLY the EVIL LIBERTARIANS!

ESPECIALLY GOLDSTEIN! I MEAN, GREENWALD!

You make a lot of SENSE! Spying is GOOD! Surveillance states are GOOD! Only people who expose them are BAD! And if there is any GREED and LOOTING and MONEY GRUBBING, it is the LIBERTARIANS who are DOING IT!

It is all a PLOT BY GREENWALD and those DIRTY LIBERTARIANS!!!!!!111!

[tridim]

46. No, it's all a scam.. For profit.

And you are still falling for it.

[woo me with science]

55. I KNOW! YOU are RIGHT!

The GREED of GLENN GREENWALD is the greatest DANGER to AMERICA TODAY!

We are LUCKY that the BANKS and CORPORATIONS who run our government are SPYING ON EVERYONE and protecting us from this GREEDY LIBERTARIAN!

[closeupready]

62. LOL, wish I could recommend your posts here.

[woo me with science]

82. Glenn Greenwald is impoverishing me!

I am all in favor of TSA groping and a surveillance state if the NSA and the big banks and the corporations can stop him!

[closeupready]

87. Glenn Greenwald hates you for your freedoms!!!11!!

lol - Snowden's shit stinks!!11!! MORE SURVEILLANCE NOW!!!11!! MANDATORY BIOCHIPS NOW!!11! MANDATORY WHATEVER THE NSA WANTS NOW!!!11!

[treestar]

131. There's no surveillance state

This is nothing like Soviet Russia for instance. In fact, right now even without the Soviets, Eddie is in a state much more likely to surveil him. You can't just throw that label out and expect everything to follow unthinkingly.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

164. Oh but there is a surveillance state, or haven't you read anything the last 6 months?

Things don't get to be true just because you want them to be true.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

167. There are just some that will refuse to see reality no matter

how many times it is revealed to them: article after article, news release after news release.


Or perhaps they just want you to be unsure and muddy the waters.

[treestar]

184. Did you find the bug in your house yet?

have you been threatened yet for your liberal and progressive views, with prosecution or just plain threats?

The mafia is more dangerous. The US government can barely keep itself going. How anyone thinks it has time for spying on ordinary people is beyond silly.

[LuvNewcastle]

109. Same here. They're usually the best replies in a thread.

[tridim]

100. Nope, I said none of that.

Woo me with BS spin, Woooooooo.

[Luminous Animal]

149. + 10000000000000

[LondonReign2]

122. Thank you woo

You perfectly encapsulated the arguments of The Brigade.

[Sheepshank]

124. encapsulated or emulated?

it's so hard to tell on this thread.

[tblue]

147. "GOLDSTEIN! I MEAN, GREENWALD!"

Very fitting.

[KittyWampus]

36. funny how the ideologues on DU ALSO "swarm" onto "these" threads. But you aren't manufactured.

LOL

[woo me with science]

45. Here's a map!

It proves everything!

[KittyWampus]

117. bizarre non sequitur. You might want to see someone about your apparent disorientation.

I'm concerned about you Woo.

[snooper2]

53. The one percent drones are flooding GD!

"States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines."

I've seen that exact line a few times the last couple days. Out of curiosity, do you type it out each time or is it on a notepad somewhere?

[treestar]

132. Auto text?

[SidDithers]

139. Gotta be cut and paste...

CTRL-V for Victory!

Sid

[Poll_Blind]

76. +1

PB

[Enthusiast]

103. +1. I'm with you on manufactured swarms.

It couldn't be any more obvious. They will have to tighten up or something.

And the propaganda machine couldn't be any more obvious. It's every TV channel now and nearly every radio program. And all over the net. It has reached the level of the ridiculous.

[gcomeau]

108. Is the Illuminati involved too?

So very sick of the childish need to blame a dissenting opinion on a vast corporate/government/Big Brother conspiracy that's out to get you and is ever so very very concerned about what random posters are saying on DU and must therefore deploy their forces to deal with it.

Grow the hell up.

[treestar]

133. THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^ nt

[sagat]

153. +1.

[woo me with science]

186. Nope, just lizards.

Like clockwork, the only mention of the "Illuminati" we ever see on DU comes from the corporate defense brigade, trying desperately to smear, smear, smear...

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

From So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish, by Douglas Adams

[Blue_Tires]

111. How is it a "smear job" when the words are from Snowden's own attorney?

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless you're saying this attorney is a plant or a fake or something....Or you mean the attorney's comments are taken totally out of context..

[treestar]

130. I wish that corporation would start paying me

Do you know its name?

Really, all you have to disagreement on the issue of Eddie is a blanket charge we are being paid and a conclusive statement of the "danger" of Eddie's revelations? How have the revelations hurt the corporations, including our employer (if you know who that is).

[Union Scribe]

175. Why would they buy the cow

when so many give them milk for free? Quick, I saw someone post a TPP thread, go brave one and defend that poor secret trade agreement!

[treestar]

180. I don't defend it; I am just asking questions

That's what is hilarious; we are expected to go in lock step on that.

I think for myself, thank you. No one on DU who sets themselves up as expert on any issue is going to get me to just go along without their defending their own argument.

Generalizations won't do. Accusations that vaguely defined "corporations" are behind it won't do.

[Marr]

138. +1

[tritsofme]

196. LOL, too funny. Good stuff.

[woo me with science]

32. Snowden is a poo poo head!

Good Americans LOVE the corporate surveillance state!

[RC]

58. Even some Canadians.

[woo me with science]

80. +1 And the British, too...

Big CEO loves us.

[Puglover]

195. Splain to me how that works.

For the life of me I cannot imagine finding ­Bloc QuébécoisUnderground and camping it daily telling members why they don't fit my idea of what a good member should think.

[MineralMan]

38. Maybe Glenn Greenwald can send him some money.

He's done OK with Snowden's material, it seems.

[cali]

39. woot! great news. Let's hope he suffers and starves. Yay for you and your hate of

Snowden.

That's so much more important than the abuses of the NSA and the surveillance state.

Hate on, my friend. Hate on.

[randome]

40. Boo! OP expressed no opinion.

It isn't even necessary to 'hate' Snowden. Like all Libertarians, he is his own worst enemy. He will crash and burn with no one's help.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[tridim]

41. I think Cali might be in love with him.

There is no reasoning with her on the subject. Snowjob is dreamy, just like his new boss.

[randome]

43. Since Snowden abandoned his fiance, I suppose the field is wide open now.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[woo me with science]

57. She was a ballerina, too! He ABANDONED her!

Therefore, spying on Americans is GOOD!

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. First requirement...you must be an adept pole dancer!

[cali]

67. tridiim, tridim, sitting in a tree

could you be any more juvenile?

And just for the record, I've never written anything about Snowden that could remotely be interpreted as lionizing him. I think he did us a favor but I've been reluctant to characterize him as a hero.

Now you being swoony over the President and adoring and an apologist? That is beyond doubt. You're the hero worshiper type of personality.

[Douglas Carpenter]

98. you are quite correct Cali. I may have, but you NEVER have lionized Edward Snowden - You have only

raised the issues of the surveillance state that he has helped reveal. Some people here are such devoted partisans and so devoted to the President to such personality cult levels - they assume that those of us who are interested in the preservation of liberal western democracy can only be guided by a personality cult of our own or by some sinister competing ideology. If there was a Republican President in the White House now and if Mr. Snowden was known as a supporter of the Democratic Party - they would already be campaigning for his canonization. They genuinely see partisanship as more important than core liberal and democratic principles.

[Whisp]

112. The lionization of Eddie Snowden:

[randome]

119. He already has the courage and heart, I'll give him that.

Could have used a little something in the brains department, though.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[treestar]

137. LOL

[treestar]

135. Where's Catherina been?

Maybe she went to Moscow!

[cali]

60. lol. yes, yes. let's just forget what else the OP has posted over and over as

regards Snowden.

[randome]

77. I do 'forget' things like that. Deliberately. So that each post can stand or fall on its own merits.

It's too much trouble to keep a mental scorecard in my head anyways.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[cali]

86. that strikes me as absurd.

it's totally disregarding context.

[randome]

96. Context matters but maybe not as much as you think.

I can learn from even the DUers who detest me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Marr]

144. Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4031446

[struggle4progress]

146. Stuff like this you mean? I'm such a bad bad person:

Germany rules out asylum for Snowden

Brazil to ask Russia for permission to question Edward Snowden

Edward Snowden's father arrives in Russia to meet fugitive son

Ex-wrestler Jesse Ventura vows to pardon Snowden, Manning as president

Edward Snowden’s E-Mail Provider Defied FBI Demands to Turn Over Crypto Keys, Documents Show

Ex-spy refuses to discuss Snowden proposal

“Mr. Snowden, I Presume?”

What It's Like to Work for a Background Check Contractor

Snowden NSA Leaks: Rep. Schiff Introduces Bill To Reform Secret Court

Snowden disclosures prompt warning on widely used computer security formula

[struggle4progress]

145. I guess you could ask his lawyer to STFU if you don't like what the lawyer says

but I don't have his address handy: you'd have to look it up yourself

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. few people have sacrificed so much for our freedom as Edward Snowden

If the surveillance state is successfully inhibited enough so that our tradition of liberal western democracy survives we will all owe him a debt of gratitude. History will absolve him

[woo me with science]

47. Thank you. This is the truth. This is how corrupt our government has become.

Unfortunately, states that turn authoritarian, states that build surveillance machines, also build propaganda machines.

[randome]

51. Really? Your fellow DUers are part of a propaganda machine...

...because they don't believe that copies of metadata phone records and monitoring foreign communications equals a 'surveillance machine'?

I think you need to step back and take a time out. With respect.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[cali]

88. really? Senators Leahy, Wyden and others are just hysterical little ninnies?

According to your dismissive statements, that's all they are as regards the NSA. Of course, how could I forget that YOU and others of your kind, know so much more than the mere Chair of the Judiciary Committee.

You certainly do think highly of your own opinion.

[randome]

93. Comparing anyone to a Congressman is a fool's errand.

I never called anyone 'hysterical' or a 'ninny'. I think politicians do a lot of talking but very little action.

If Congress wants to shut down the metadata phone copies, who am I to complain? I just don't see it as a big deal, one way or the other, and it's hard to fathom why some want to equate this practice -ruled legal by the courts- to a 'surveillance state'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[cali]

116. Not in so many words but you've repeatedly insinuated just that.

and you know very well that it extends well beyond the mere collection of "meta-data". I honestly find it perplexing that anyone could be so cavalier about the ever encroaching surveillance of Americans by the NSA.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

168. Some people just want to be slaves and be told what to do, cali.

It makes them feel safe when they turn the lights off.

Question nothing.

Big Brother will guide and protect you.

[uponit7771]

50. Ummm, no... Snowden could've gotten rich going about this the ANOTHER way but decided NOT to

... thumb his nose at the US and kiss Putins ass...

Fuck him, what did he think would happen?

He sounds like he didn't look both ways before crossing the street

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. Just like George Bush!

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. "Few people have sacrificed so much for our freedom"?

Do you even read what you are writing? You might want to ask Tammy Duckworth about sacrifices and freedom...

Plenty more where she comes from.....

[Douglas Carpenter]

73. Our causalities in Iraq are innocent victims. But, I cannot imagine how anyone can

claim with a straight face that our actions in Iraq have preserved our freedom. They did not lose their lives and limbs for our freedom. They lost their lives and their limbs for a pack of lies.

[treestar]

140. How can anyone with a straight face claim Eddie's actions have? nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

152. It is an indisputable fact that Mr. Snowden's actions have forced a an open discussion about the

vast, gargantuan surveillance state. No sane or rational person denies that. Even Mr. Snowden's strongest critics admit that much. It is an indisputable fact that Mr. Snowden - as this very article attest to - has paid a very dear price for his actions in informing the world about the vast gargantuan surveillance state. Again, even Mr. Snowden's critics all agree that is the case. 90% of those here who are now condemning Mr. Snowden would be haling him as a hero of the cause of freedom if the current occupant of the White House was a Republican. I realize not everyone agrees with me on this - but I personally believe that one should put liberal and progressive principles and defending our democratic institutions above the desire to shield the President from any hint of criticism. I realize you don't agree with me on that point. But that is how I see it.

[treestar]

162. It is not an indisputable fact

there is no vast gargantuan surveillance state. That is pure exaggeration. The only indisputable fact is that he violated confidentiality of the nation and failed to use the whistle blower procedure to do it. This country actually has such a procedure.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

169. Dude, you either really need to wake up or stop with the disinformation.

[Douglas Carpenter]

173. It is not possible to look at the facts objectively and conclude otherwise. To egage in this

denial of reality is truly stepping into the theater of the absurd - it is living in crazy land.

[Douglas Carpenter]

79. Crazy traitor leaker got Congress to notice vast surveillance state By Alex Pareene

Crazy traitor leaker got Congress to notice vast surveillance state By Alex Pareene

Pols from both parties are all of a sudden demanding more transparency and pushing reforms. Thanks, leaks!


(Credit: Reuters/Bobby Yip)

There is a guy, a famous guy, who lives now in a Russian airport or something, no one is really sure, but everyone in the media (and lots of people not in the media) cannot stop fighting and arguing about this guy. Some people say he is a jerk and crazy and bad and others say he is a hero and super cool. Either way, mean jerk or cool hero, this guy that everyone won’t shut up about is actually responsible for the first major public displays of Congressional opposition to the unchecked surveillance state in 35 years or so.

Congress has always had a handful of privacy advocates and true civil libertarians. But for many years in political Washington it has been considered foolish and perhaps a bit treasonous to suggest that our intelligence agencies are even slightly overzealous in their collection of all information possible about everything on the globe. That is still the general consensus, but as McClatchy’s Washington Bureau wrote on Friday, there are suddenly a bunch of members of Congress who actually want to rein in the NSA.

The last time a significant number of Washington politicians favored additional restrictions on intelligence-gathering and surveillance powers was in the immediate aftermath of the Church Committee reports, in the mid-1970s. Since then, Congress has practically abandoned its oversight power over the intelligence communities, and it’s only gotten worse since 9/11. Fighting terrorism trumped privacy every time Congress was asked to expand government spying powers. For much of the last dozen years, civil libertarians weren’t just ignored by the political establishment, they were vilified. When Democrats took full control of Congress, they still rubber-stamped Bush’s surveillance programs.

So what happened, exactly? Well, the American people learned a bunch of scary sounding stuff about how much data the NSA is collecting, on everyone. They learned this because of illegal leaks of classified information, to reporters, from the guy everyone is fighting about. Everyone can keep fighting about the guy, I guess, but no one can now say that the guy’s leaks were entirely gratuitous. Because before the leaks, people who were alarmed at what the intelligence agencies could be up to were ignored and politicians who had pretty good notions of what they could be up to (or who could’ve learned what they were up to if they cared to) weren’t concerned.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/22/crazy_traitor_leaker_got_congress_to_notice_vast_surveillance_state/?source=newsletter

[Whisp]

81. I'm not see that big drippy

sarcasm sign, Doug.

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. If this was during a Republcians Administration 90% of those who are now bashing Snowden

would be singing his praises. I Believe that preserving what remains of the remnants of liberal western democracy is more important than narrowly focused partisanship.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

171. Seriously. I have to shake my head in disbelief at the partisan toddlers that obsess

over this story being blown under the nose of a Democratic President.

This kind of shit transcends party loyalty and is at the root of every freedom that we hold dear.


I can only imagine that the kind on individual, or group of individuals, that would deny these stories are here to divest legitimacy to stories of widespread spying by the NSA. Whether these motives are purely partisan or paid for I cannot discern.

[polichick]

197. Agreed.

[uponit7771]

52. Sounds like Snowden didn't think ANY of this all the way through! Like Der Spiegel said they

... weren't going to put out documents that put agents lives in danger... documents stupid Snowden gave them.

He is confirming my first notion that he's an idiot who got together with an opportunist in Greenwald

[Skraxx]

61. Honestly, the whole thing was probably a Putin game

To get the sap to turn over a trove of NSA data. Greenwald was the facilitator. Total con job. Greenwald may or may not have been in on it. Either way, Putin got what he wanted.

Now Snowden's making the best of sapdom and begging for cold hard cash. More scamming.

[uponit7771]

66. GOOD POINT... Putin in all of this is the biggest winner and .. and got to poke at US agencies...

... Snowden could've went another route .

[MADem]

179. Putin used to run the KGB. He may be a jerk who likes to run around without a shirt, displaying a

physique that really NEEDS a shirt, though none of his sycophants seem willing to let him know this, but other than a sartorial blind spot, the guy is no fool when it comes to spycraft. He's among the best in the world on an individual level, certainly.

Russia as a nation scored a coup when they spirited Eddie out of that Hong Kong hotel over to the Russian consulate in Hong Kong, where they let him chill out for a bit before he made his "unplanned" run to Russia. But yeah, there was no pre-planning or coordination...certainly not with Assange, who decided of his own accord that he wouldn't leak all the nasty information he had on the Russians...for some odd reason. I'm sure the TV $how he got on RT had NOTHING to do with that...

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. and now GG has tossed him like yesterdays news...

who couldn't see that coming?

[flamingdem]

123. Whatever happened to lounging w Glenn on Brazilian beaches

discussing undermining the us govt?

Instead the snow drifts are building up and Natasha is cooking potato soup for dinner.

[Luminous Animal]

150. What? How did you come to that conclusion? In a recent profile, he says that he communicates with

him every day.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. Well he isn't apparently communicating with his Soviet Bank Account...

[Agnosticsherbet]

54. Another not so subtle pitch for people to donate money to Snowden.

No thanks. I have other worthwhile charities where I donate.

[closeupready]

89. Or perhaps just an observation that he lives paycheck to paycheck

like 9 out of 10 workers everywhere...?

[RC]

70. It looks like DU has another swarm to contend with.

- Down near the bottom.

And to think DU used to be by and for Liberals and Progressives. Conservatives not allowed.

Why are people that support the corporate backed, unconstitutional government spy state, allowed to remain here?

[QC]

78. Yeah, looks like somebody put up the bat signal.

I guess the secret chatroom over at NJmaverick's vanity site is hopping.

[woo me with science]

83. +100000

Did you know he *abandoned* a ballerina?

And he drinks lattes!

I am ALL in favor of mass government spying and storage of my personal life, AND fabrication of evidence trails by the NSA and DEA, in order to stop that!

[muriel_volestrangler]

110. Obviously he should have had a garage sale of all the boxes

because keeping boxes in garages is un-American.

[Puglover]

95. LOL!

Every time I think about that teeny tiny little site of true believers it makes me smile.

[QC]

105. Hey, a small group of dedicated true believers can put together an excellent website.

Remember those Heaven's Gate people out in San Diego?

[treestar]

141. LOL I like that

Yet you don't see the same posters - most of the posters there have dropped DU. I'm the only one I see at both sites and I haven't seen a thread of this yet there. Do you have a link to one that gives marching orders?

[Whisp]

72. maybe Glenn Greenwald can give him some money

that he made off his donations peddling Snowdon's story.

That would only be fair, Glenn! come on. Or how about that 7 figure deal you were trying to sell an exclusive with Snowden to one of the networks/cables? How'd that work out? What, Snowden wanted Money Too for that? He wasn't willing to let you just have it all?

[flamingdem]

115. Hello Glenn, pick up Glenn!

Remember me Glenn!

[randome]

118. I Remember You

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[flamingdem]

120. Nice. Next up "Brother Can You Spare a Dime?"

with Bing!

[Whisp]

74. It's a pity pitch.

People will donate to GG to transfer to the Snowy one and GG will just, ahem, forget to do that part.

[woo me with science]

90. Flashback: Bush spying legalized with Democratic votes!

What a happy day that was, when Democrats joined with Bush cronies to legalize the Surveillance State!

Unabashed Warrantless NSA Spying on Americans is NOW LEGAL - And It's SPECTACULAR..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1524655

[woo me with science]

91. NSA, DEA fabricating evidence trails to imprison Americans using spying.

DEA Agents Are Told To Cover Up Spying Program Used Against Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023406605

[alcibiades_mystery]

92. This often happens to people who are fugitives from federal felony warrants

I wish him the best of luck in his new life in Russia.

[treestar]

142. I had heard the cost of living is not very high there

A few USD could go a long way!

[woo me with science]

94. DU smacks down shameless, slimy propaganda tactic (376 recs!)

I am getting sick and fucking tired of hearing that anyone opposed to NSA domestic spying is a libertarian Paulite.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023481874

[sibelian]

193. 377.

FWIW...

Thanks, Woo.

[woo me with science]

97. Dianne Feinstein pushes fake NSA reform bill, pretends to rein in but actually legalizes spying

DiFi....Does it again! "Releases FAKE NSA REFORM Bill" She's just not trustworthy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023956421

[Sheepshank]

125. your frantic post after repost of the same message is kinda funny

it seems almost manic.

[sibelian]

194. Ooooh, hello!

do you think woo is a narcissist?

[Whisp]

99. I see lots of boiled cabbage in Eddie's future. n/t

[MineralMan]

113. Shchi and Kasha, Our Staple Food.

Щи да каша – пища наша!

That's dinner, or was, anyhow.

[Sheepshank]

102. I hear he got a job in tech security...

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

so the balance of his needs financial should be well taken care of by his loyal supporters. Easy.

[Packerowner740]

121. Guess he ll have to do like everybody else and get a job?

[polynomial]

127. Snowden is worth every penny

When many think about the treasure the one percent have right now with all this secret metadata files, how could anyone believe Snowden did not do something good for the country. This young man is out on the lamb now down and out so here goes. A little pep talk.

Obviously Booze and Allen Company hugely connected to the Bush family hired Snowden. What really is the icing on the cake, Bush is long time family friends and business partners with the Bin Laden family. That alone should freak out a huge section of the Congress and the Senate, and a whole section of the Supreme Court IMAMs. It gets better the Arabs Bin Laden family had an economic investment in Booze Allen till the news is out that the Backroom Senate in America is listening us. As the Congress of Soprano’s would say “hay how you do ‘in.”

Ladies and Gentleman of America it will come to pass that this metadata file stuff will be as convenient, or more accessible than the current unemployment data, better yet more than the weather report by the minute with Doppler terrorist reporting for your neighborhood. LOL

Yes, imagine this is a very democratic form of data collection we the people are not used to. Think about it especially to eradicate Islamic crazies, and corporate nut jobs, plus red state obstructionist. How about a corporate metadata file for corporate money laundering? Money scams of all sorts. The Republicans will likely have to be honest about what they say. Oh no, the Jim Carry “I can’t lie".

[Marr]

134. Does that give you a tingle? /nt

[struggle4progress]

158. You could always complain to Snowden's lawyer Kucherena, if you dislike what he says

[HijackedLabel]

136. I've been broke for years. nt

[riqster]

156. His intentions are not knowable.

But it is clear that he wouldn't know a plan if it bit him on his wedding tackle. He did not approach this with a realistic viewpoint and did not plan for contingencies.

[randome]

157. How did he have 'savings' to begin with? He just started a job a month ago, right?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Fumesucker]

159. Cleanup on the Snowwald aisle

There's woodhuck splooge all over the place.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

161. Meanwhile, the roaches he shined the light on are eating well..and have their passports.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

166. It. is very telling who the right wingers

AKA 3rd-wayers in this thread are with all the gloating going on over a whistle blower.

"No, no...the man behind the curtain isn't spying on you and... well... he really is but everybody does it and you've been spied on for a long time. You outrage needs an enema bla bla bla..."

[davidn3600]

170. What's that old saying...dissent is the highest form of patriotism?

For many in here, dissent equals treason.

Pretty alarming how so many progressives are willing to support such a domestic spy machine that we got going on.

[QC]

190. Dissent is only good when the other team is in charge.

Not when our team is running things.

It's all about who's wearing which jersey.

[Historic NY]

177. So he should get a job....

must be thousands of them in Russia, there aren't Republican job creators there.

[alarimer]

198. I'm kind of amazed at the authoritarians here.

You all would be howling if Snowden's leaks had happened during the Bush administration.

I find that Democrats will be apologists for practically ANYTHING if it happens under Obama (or presumable Clinton if we'd had DU or Twitter then).

Personally I despise the NSA and our entire spying apparatus. A truly democratic society should have no need to spy on us or our allies.

Shame on anyone who supports it.