General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumslet's be real here about the impact of "you can keep your insurance"
Almost everybody reading this post is not affected by this in the least.
There are roughly 320 million people in this country.
About 85% of us get health insurance through an employer, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA.
That means about 270 million of us are not affected at all by healthcare.gov web site issues or by junk individual policies that are being cancelled.
Among the 50 million who are affected, 40 million had no insurance at all, so it isn't like the ACA or the website problems made their situations worse. They are either better off or the same.
That leaves 10 million. Roughly half of those are able to keep the plan they already have because it complies with the ACA and their insurance company still offers it.
That leaves 5 million people that are losing their coverage and forced to buy a new plan.
Among those, roughly half will have access to a cheaper and better plan than they had before. The website issues affect these people and will be fixed and they'll be alright.
That leaves about 2.5 million people that are in a bind. Their insurance costs will be higher than before, even if the coverage is better.
1/120th of the population. 1 out of every 120 people in this country have every right to be pissed about the ACA, at least in the short term.
But 40 million people... 1 out of 8.... have access to insurance now who didn't have it before.
The math doesn't work for the opponents of the ACA once that 1/8 gets insurance. That is why they are desperate to kill it in the crib.
What the GOP and their friends in the media have been trying to do is to convince everyone that THEY are one of the 1/120 of the population that is being adversely affected.
The only way they kill it is if they convince enough of the voting public that it harms THEM.
As a utilitarian ... I accept policies that help (or don't harm) 119/120 of the population while inconveniencing, in the short run, 1/120 of the population.
We're losing the message war right now. But the math is in our favor... and long term, the ACA is an enormous positive for Democrats. And the GOP knows it.
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FSogol
(47,611 posts)
B Calm
(28,762 posts)to address the problems with health care and don't care. It's just a matter of time before people will see the benefits of ACA!
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,951 posts)Hopefully, more Democrats start bringing this up instead of succumbing to the panic being exhibited by some Congressional Democrats over the "you can keep your plan" bills being introduced/discussed. Obamacare is sure a hell of a lot better than Republicans' "I don't care".
lastlib
(28,192 posts)
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)The Democratic Party tossed their plan and stole the Republicans, so yeah, now they have nothing but they win anyway.
Dawson Leery
(19,568 posts)to deal with the rising costs of healthcare and bringing affordable insurance to those who do not have it/cannot afford it.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)..sometimes in a 3-to-1 ratio.. Difficult-to-explain concepts tale longer than *7 seconds to talk about ..
And of course "news" is now in "show" format, so a "host" steers the conversation, but does not actually report much news.
* some GOP guru once said (on-air) that they are trained to interrupt every 7 seconds when an opponent is talking.. It throws them off their point, and takes another 7 seconds to re-group..and then they interrupt agaoin...and before you know it, the "segment" is over..
Laelth
(32,017 posts)http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman
-Laelth
Raine1967
(11,676 posts)Some posted this question to me last night, obviously by the tone you can tell this is not a Dem -- it's a friend of my sister.
Now regarding this homeowner crap (debunked see here: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/realtors-the-3-8-sales-tax-and-247-medicare-premiums/ )
may I use some of these numbers as a rebuttal? I want to enter this thorny patch delicately as possible. I don't really think this person gives a shit about what I think, although I do plan to ask if she is willing to read facts and believe that what information I give her is true.
(This i going to be like teaching a fish to ride a bike I suspect.)
Thanks!
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)My numbers are ballpark estimates, but they accurately reflect the situation.
Raine1967
(11,676 posts)as in found it on some really reputable blog... 
DanM
(341 posts)The math of the policy is that it inconveniences 0/120 of the population, not 1/120.
Right wing propaganda would have you believe 1/120 are being impacted (along with all sorts of other horribles), but we need to be careful not to perpetuate that propaganda.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Look...
A small amount .. very small.. of people will pay more in the short term than they were before.
It doesn't hurt us to admit that.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But we should not apologize for it.
-Laelth
DanM
(341 posts)Be careful not to let your slip show.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)In this context, it is honest to say that some people (not many, but some) are going to be paying more for health insurance due to the ACA. That's it.
-Laelth
DanM
(341 posts)Sure, some pay more in the short term, but that's for real insurance. What they were paying before they might as well flushed down the toilet, because it was for crap.
It hurts us to admit otherwise, because Repubs are itching for a trickle of blood to start.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)then we have lost. This is not about numbers. It is one more gotcha that the admin has screwed up. When average joe the faux news listener sees or hears this, do you really think 10, 5, 40 million is what they hear? NO. They hear "You can keep your insurance" and Obama lied. Stop playing the numbers game and start coming up with a reason why the admin lied. Or at least a better mea culpa.
How about mea culpa and we are introducing a bill to fix it? Then let the republicans vote against it.
Worst administration in my time on messaging. It would be comical if it weren't pathetic.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
reflection
(6,287 posts)
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts) 
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)mac56
(17,820 posts)Do you mind if I share this? With attribution, of course.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)as a figure for those affected :p
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)when your dealing with 313 million people 
people negatively influenced by something are always the loudest...
not that we shouldn't care.. tho I think theyd find it was their insurance company lusting for more cash who made the decision that they couldn't keep their current plan :p
7962
(11,841 posts)at least thats what I've heard. Dont know if that will REALLY happen though. Probably just more scary stuff.
wiggs
(8,791 posts)as accusations of potus misleading and buggy giant websites it doesn't get much play in media of any stripe.
ChazII
(6,448 posts)the needs of the few or the one.
hue
(4,949 posts)
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)The only people who are upset over that statement are people that are upset by every day Obama is in office.
And the media as usual, rather then inform the public that people who's policies were canceled have really been victims of insurance industry scams for years, they are instead stirring the controversy pot. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper and fits their current format of 24/7 political pissing match coverage. Besides who wants to be informative and present real world news and facts based on research and old fashion shoe leather type reporting.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Not for pre-existing conditions, not for pregnancies, not for complications before unseen prior to surgery!
Under the ACA, insurance companies HAVE TO do their job -- provide insurance!
The insurance companies that sold those junk insurance plans are busy canceling them because they never intended to provide insurance to those policy holders, to begin with!!!
It was a ponzi scheme . . designed to line the pockets of the insurance companies!!
They had until January to make those insurance policies valid, but they NEVER INTENDED to have those policies go in to effect.
THEY WERE RIPPING OFF THEIR CUSTOMERS!!
THAT'S THE POINT OF ACA!!!
What the f*ck good is health insurance if the company can simply cancel the policy when you go to use it?
Get it now??
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)That's why I said "short term inconvenience".
These people don't want to pay more, even if they're getting real coverage in return.
In the long run, they are better off. But they see short term pain in their family budgets.
1% of the population will have to come up with more money to pay for real coverage, or have no plan at all and pay the penalty.
But we shouldn't make things worse for 99% of us so the 1% can have the right to continue to be screwed by their insurance companies.
mostlyconfused
(211 posts)I had opted out of a few things like mental health coverage, in order to reduce my premium. My insurance company tells me that plan, which was not a junk plan, can no longer be offered under the ACA because it doesn't meet minimum requirements. My premiums will go up, but only a little.
If 5 million, or 2.5 million, or whatever it is...people are going to pay more, and 40 million more people can get coverage (a good thing), is the concern of those 5/2.5 that their increase is what's subsidizing the coverage for the 40 million. It has to be helping pay in part for all of those new insured or else the ACA is not economically viable, correct?
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)usually wins, or they wouldn't be in business. The ACA is meant to let people get screwed a little less hard.
Saviolo
(3,321 posts)And inflated by the insurance companies themselves. They canceled a number of plans, and then lied about what the client's options were, wrt a new policy. It's currently the picture of the day (though I think it's yesterday's http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017158277) with a list of insurers who are currently being sued or fined due to their negligence or outright lying in the face of the ACA.
Makes me a little sick that these people are trying to make a quick million on people's illness and suffering. They're not in it to offer people the best coverage for them, they're in it for the profits profit profits. Profits before people. They never take into account the human cost.
jerkstore90210
(14 posts)I'd like to see a solid source on them.
gopiscrap
(24,714 posts)
90-percent
(6,956 posts)America is so awash in agenda propaganda disguised as news that the core of our very Democracy is at stake.
There is something terribly wrong with Bill Clinton himself catapulting the propaganda. He seems to have totally bought into this false narrative about a small portion of people not being able to keep their crappy substandard insurance. He is not that stupid and if this was a war, he'd be tried as a traitor.
Facts and reason are no longer a part of our national narrative. All we are getting from MSM is the agenda from the wealthy Obama haters leading their corps of ignorant fearful racist Obama haters. All the fucking time!
The good of the ACA outweights the bad by the above numbers, 119 parts good for Americans vs. 1 part bad and all we are hearing about is the .0083% bad!
Here's the good points as it applies to my specific circumstances:
1. Affordable private insurance that is not tied to an employer. It's hard for me to get a F/T job due to age and economy. Now I can be semi-employed and still carry full coverage. How many of us, especially those with families, were stuck in a crappy job where we were forced to grovel and work for mean selfish people simply to carry health insurance? For me this is liberation and I think now employers will be forced to provide a more fair workplace or their talent will jump ship for something better or jump ship without another job to go to because you can get insurance while you're looking for a better workplace.
2. No more you have insurance until the time you need it. No more loop hole ologists at the insurance companies looking for technicalities to shirk their responsibilities for covering your brain tumor or breast cancer.
3. There is the freedom to pick your own plan. We won't be tied into what ever your company offers.
4. No more insurance company shenanigans. For profit ins means the less yo provide your customers the more money you make. The end result runs towards never providing any customer with any coverage what so ever. That is the core of the former medieval system and for profit ins is a perversion and is even relatively recent in our history. Probably because back in post WW2 America it was obvious something like health ins should not be handled by for profit companies due to the very nature of what they provide. It should be driven by good health outcomes, not profit! The ACA also eliminates all the money making schemes where you would get coverage repeatedly rejected by "mistakes" on their end and you had to fight to get the coverage you are due.
And the ACA is a great step in the right direction, but we all know Single Payer would be the best. Why oh why do the PTB want to take away one of the best pieces of legislation to help people in recent history from us? They've taken everything else. CAn't we at least be secure in our pursuit of happiness that we can be sure to get good reasonably priced health coverage, without the fear of medical bankruptcies and losing the American dream we've worked our whole lives to attain?
They've taken so much from us since 1980. Can't they just let us keep the ACA? They've become so accustomed to owning our government, they've forgotten America is still a Democracy of, for and by THE PEOPLE!
-90% Jimmy
renie408
(9,854 posts)WowSeriously
(343 posts) watoos
(7,142 posts)It doesn't matter what issue we are talking about, be it health care, immigration, the economy, whatever; Democrats are behind the 8 ball because the M$M is corporate controlled. Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi, get it? The M$M will be talking about Benghazi until the end of the 2016 elections. Democratic politicians are afraid of the blowback from the M$M, and rightfully so. It's an uphill battle for the Dems. Thank god for sites like DU. Hopefully the truth will win out in the end. We need to focus on 2014. We need a majority in the House and Senate. Vote 2014.
pansypoo53219
(23,031 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)There are roughly 320 million people in this country...
As one of the cornerstone's of his reelection campaign, President Obama deliberately and repeatedly lied to approximately 320 million of them about the nature and impact of this law.
However much we might wish to downplay the importance of these lies today, the President thought the issue was so important that he decided it was less damaging to repeatedly lie -- even knowing that these lies would come to light as soon as the law went into effect. We can debate this as political strategy, but that misses the point; the President of the United States is not supposed to lie for personal gain. No one is.
Number of Americans: 320 million.
Number of Americans repeatedly lied to for personal gain: 320 million.
Number of Americans who now have diminshed respect for the office of the Presidency and for our Party: 320 million.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)None of those people were "lied" to.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)It's known as a LIE.
lied / ly·ing
Definition of LIE
intransitive verb
1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The President told me that.
That turned out to be a true statement.
I liked my plan... and I got to keep it.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)In any case, if all you have left are clever word games to explain away a lie then you have already surrendered the point.
Lifelong Dem
(344 posts)And don't want to use the marketplace because it is linked to Obama. Those are the people Boehner wants to help and who we see and hear on Faux News complaining about Obamacare. Maybe they will come around when Obama finishes his term and is out of office.
dickthegrouch
(4,505 posts)Are ones like me who earned more than the subsidy threshold in 2013 but have no job now. I worked for 7 months of this year and was then laid off. My income right now is zero except for a few more weeks of unemployment assistance. However when the state site asks what my income was for 2013 I don't qualify for any subsidy.
My COBRA payments are $480 a month at present (changing to some as yet undisclosed amount in January). I won't even be able to afford those without going into my 401K and taking a 10% hit on anything I get from there.
jmowreader
(53,166 posts)Rush Limburger tells his minions they're paying half their income in taxes and getting nothing for it, and they Know they're getting screwed. And they get so mad they run the pickup built by a company rescued by taxpayers off the road purchased by taxpayers and into a guardrail purchased by taxpayers so they can be cut out with a jaws of life bought by taxpayers and wielded by firefighters paid by taxpayers.
On edit: they heard Lardass on a radio station whose frequency is protected by taxpayers so someone doesn't come to town and put an All Ozzy All The Time station on the same freq the local propaganda station uses.
lostincalifornia
(5,332 posts)Oh my gosh, my hair is on fire, the sky is falling, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Even here at DU it seems like many are affected by the media hyperbole
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)If the media freaks out, DU now freaks out.
On every topic.
lostincalifornia
(5,332 posts)propaganda
handmade34
(24,009 posts)((I am sorry for those that will have to pay more))
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)a much better policy
that can't discriminate
that can't be canceled
that can't impose lifetime caps
that pays 100% of their preventive visits
that tells them exactly what their maximum out-of-pocket will be without any shenanigans
Boo-fucking-hoo if they have to pay an extra $100, which almost none of them actually will have to pay. I'm sorry. I don't have much sympathy for them. Dial down your cable plan. Give up a cell phone. Don't visit the fast food places quite as often. If your family's health care doesn't mean any more than that, you get no sympathy from me.
The people who DOget loads of sympathy from me are the working poor who are literally left out in the cold because of the Republican bastards who are refusing to extend Medicaid coverage. That is the real crime here.
Response to scheming daemons (Original post)
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gopiscrap
(24,714 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)cover nothing but they people are mandated to pay for