God damn it. How the hell do you get blindsided by your own f%$#@*g legislation???

[WilliamPitt]

They wrote it. They knew what was in it. They knew some policies were going to get cancelled because they did not meet the ACA standards, but are acting like this is all coming as a big shock.

Blindsided by their own legislation? For real?

Unreal.

Don't mind the noise. I'm just breaking things.



Obama to Offer Health Care Fix to Keep Plans, Democrat Says
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/us/politics/obama-to-offer-health-care-fix-to-keep-plans-democrat-says.html?hp

[ladjf]

1. I agree. Seems like somebody had their head in the wrong place.

[NoOneMan]

4. Or someone besides them wrote parts of the legislation

[WilliamPitt]

7. No excuse.

You really think they were unaware of this?

If they were, that's even worse.

It's their bill, fa chrissakes.

[NoOneMan]

25. Their bill?

I thought it was the Heritage Foundation's bill

[WilliamPitt]

34. The Heritage Foundation did not bring it to Congress.

The Heritage Foundation did not campaign on it.

Stop being deliberately obtuse. Joe Shit the Rag Man could have drafted it originally, but when the president made it the hood ornament for his whole administration, he owned it top to bottom.

[Jackpine Radical]

54. I don't think NOM was offering that explanation as an excuse.

Rather, the opposite, something of a condemnation.

[Mr.Bill]

134. I think the ACA was largely written

by insurance companies and their lobbyists and lawyers.

[Hoyt]

177. Or the legislation was twisted into this by Republican obstructionists.

[formernaderite]

245. wish we could blame them

but they had literally no say at the time... I have been dumb struck by this thing for about a year. Crossing my fingers literally that there were parts of this I was unaware of... a friend of mine is a state insurance commissioner, he's been privately worried since much of this was written without input from people at the state levels. Md for example has had an ins fund for those who can't get covered elsewhere.... from what I understand, those policies will all be cancelled -_-

[Hoyt]

248. Maybe if the insurance commissioners had done their jobs in the past, we wouldn't need this.

Insurance Commissioners took so much money from insurance companies, that thay hardly ever rule against the greedy, callous companies.

[JaneyVee]

2. Fine. Let them keep their crappy insurance. They can thank the GOP when

They get ripped off, denied care, and their costs continue to rise.

[WilliamPitt]

5. That's not the point.

The HAD to have seen this coming. They knew it was part of the law. THEY WROTE IT.

Botch.

[JaneyVee]

16. Of course they did. They even handed out numerous reports on it in 2010.

[B2G]

19. Point being, it IS the law...

How can he just summarily change it by decree?

This has to go to Congress. At this late date, can the plans even be reinstated to prevent uninterrupted coverage? Can he force the insurance companies to reinstate them?

This is a ginormous mess.

[FarCenter]

26. He probably needs the cooperation of state insurance commissions

Insurance companies would have to work with state commissions to reinstate products that they have dropped with newly approved rates for 2014.

[B2G]

30. IF Congress approves it first

He cannot just rule by decree. There is a process that must be followed.

[FarCenter]

33. A law requiring insurance companies to extend policies may be unconstitutional.

There may be a legal challenge.

[Yo_Mama]

61. He has the regulatory authority to rewrite the regs that made the policies not grandfathered

That much I know for sure.

I don't think he can REQUIRE the insurance companies to do this, and I don't see how the insurance companies can adapt in time.

The main problem here is that if there were going to be such "adjustments", they should have been implemented this summer. After all, we adjusted the employer mandate away.

Was no one paying attention?

[Gore1FL]

168. There is a GOP-sponsored House bill and a Democrat-sponsored Senate Bill in the works

Both suck. The GOP one is obviously written to be counter-productive and damaging. The Democratic can't be much better.

What they should do is offer medicare at the rate of the previous plans of those affected for a year. That would serve the dual purpose of solving the problem and pissing off the people narrating the problem.

[busterbrown]

140. That does not work..

All personal tragedies in their world are as a direct result of a “Godless America”

[Mr Dixon]

228. Agreed

sick of people crying about this, if you don't like it then move on and get screwed by your own insurance.

[Purveyor]

3. Just pray to the gods that this bunch never takes us into a real war! eom

[cali]

6. for real. and any attempt to rationally criticize the problems with the ACA

is met with frothing, rabid crap.

Good luck with this.

[DonCoquixote]

78. let me ask this

You hate the Aca, fine. You wanted single payer, I did too. But considering how much fighting there was over ACA, the lite, milktaost, keep insurance remedy, do you think America could have even pondered supporting single player on the first try? It would have been killed by the soctus, in which case we would be right back at square one.

Government is nto a video game where you do instant fixes by fiat, especially when congress is actively trying to break it, and being shoveled all the money they need to do it.

[cali]

90. You have no problem putting words in my mouth that are as wrong as wrong could be

I do not hate the ACA. I support it.

Furthermore, I have always said that the political will for single payer just wasn't there.

Your apology is awaited.

[DonCoquixote]

91. OK

Then I stand corrected.

[cali]

99. Thanks. I'll take it. And perhaps you could come away from this encounter

with less of a proclivity to put words in another person's mouth.

[DonCoquixote]

101. That's ok

People have a way of saying enough stuff I need not put it in their mouth, but this was the rare exception.

[Township75]

171. That reaction

Of rabid frothing is how we know this legislation' se xecution are a total cluster fuck. I agree wih you. At du it is not well received to criticize it. It will be as if that meant you were against HCR.

But that frothing is by those that know this is fubar'ed and a liability to the party until it is fixed.

The president, the dem leaders and everyone responsible for its roll out really failed at it. That is the bottom line. Time to deal with reality and fix the situation otherwise the repubs will.

[Autumn]

8. blindsided?? More like screwed over by the ones who wrote it.

That would be my guess. I wish he would not have done this. Those junk plans need to go.

[SlimJimmy]

162. Not all of the canceled plans are *junk*. I'm growing a bit weary of this talking point. Some of

the canceled plans were quite good. For example, my wife's plan is great, but it does not cover pediatric eye exams or wellness visits to the doc without a copay. Guess what? Once the employer mandate extension expires - good bye to her plan. I checked on the federal exchange site and a plan that would be close (but not quite as good) costs twice as much and has a much larger deductible than her current insurance. Since we make more than the minimum for subsidies, that's not going to help either. This is a mess, it needs to be fixed, and it needs to happen now. Congress wasn't straight with us, and sorry to say - neither was the President.

And don't even try to sell me on how much better a plan on the exchange will be. As I said above, I already looked.

[covadcalifornia]

176. thank you for that post - it really is just a talking point now and way too simplified at best.

AS much as i want to see a fix - it cannot be by decree.

mine was cancelled also - but I did not get hit as bad as you.

Our Monthly premium went up 42%

We were paying $ 1057.53 per month in 2013

We wil now be paying $ 1503.19 per month.

or an extra $ 5,347.92 per year.

Our deductible has more than doubled. We had a complete deductible of $ 6000.00 last year.

Our NEW DEDUCTIBLE IS $ 12,700.00 an increase of 111%

Our total out of pocket to be insured AND ACTUALLY USE the plan is now:

$ 12, 047.92 MORE THAN LAST YEAR! for less coverage.

.....MAN - I hope we do not use our insurance!


Our prescription plan will not even begin to kick in now TILL AFTER we have paid our entire deductible.

We also have a very nice dental plan though another provider, with decent coverage. WE NO LONGER HAVE AN OPTION and NOW we have to buy it though our insurance IF we want to keep it.

this is a mess. I am not the red herring.

[SlimJimmy]

241. Welcome to DU. I can tell you than many here will defend the ACA until death. The problem is

they are stuck with talking points that actually defy reality. Many of the plans canceled were actually pretty good, some like my wife's were great. And most of the replacements on the exchange are more expensive, both in premiums and deductibles. I ask you, what good is a $200.00 reduction in premium per month, if the deductible goes up by $4,000 - $8,000?

We were involved in a very bad accident last year. My wife spent 21 days in the hospital with 5-6 surgeries. Every penny of it (and that included the $30,000 helicopter transport) was covered since we had met our $2,700 deductible for the year. Are you ready? The bill came to over $350,000.

So don't tell me her plan is junk. Do you hear me DU, I DON"T WANT TO HEAR IT. Her plan will be canceled next year because it doesn't meet the standards set in the ACA. I'm just beside myself over this. This needs to be fixed, now. Not yesterday, and not with some bullshit one year delay. This rollout is a nightmare, and it ain't going away by putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

And just to be clear, I think the general concept of the ACA is a great idea. But I have to honest, the rollout is sucking big time.

Can you tell I'm a bit passionate about this?

[formernaderite]

246. they are certainly not all junk plans

its' just ridiculous to repeat that. Some are, others didn't have things like maternity and child health and dental etc. Things that many people actually didn't need. One shoe doesnt' fit all... I'm assuming they included the must have list because they knew it would make people pay for the group that needed it. But obviously that would drive up the costs for many people. Many of these plans had much lower deductibles than what's offered through the ACA market, but once you add in unnecessary coverage, of course the prices would double.

As someone who is self insured, and paid a very low rate for years... I am now payinog double for a plan that meets the ACA criteria, and wasn't cancelled... I didn't need much of what I was insured for before... now it's hilarious the things I'm covered for that will never apply lol
The clusterfuck is coming... next year when the emp mandates have to be met.

[fadedrose]

9. On CSpan in minutes

We'll see what he's got for us...

[joeglow3]

10. What you are witnessing is what is wrong with politics - no spine

We all knew this is what would happen because it needed to happen. Healthy people will have to pay more to more equally share the burden. Single men would have to purchase pregnancy coverage to more equally share the burden. Young people would have to pay more to more equally share the burden. The ENTIRE plan was based on this logic.

Now, when a vocal minority are trying to make a political issue of it, our spineless leaders (I am looking at you, Mr. President), are backtracking and undermining the entire plan. This could be the beginning of the end of Obamacare and I am not convinced it will be replaced by something better.

[Democat]

80. Even on DU, many people don't want to pay more for the good of those poorer than them

There are many DU members who think everyone who makes more than they do should pay more taxes. But if it's suggested that they pay more for the good of those who make less than they do, then it's not fair.

[Romulox]

95. The insurance industry purposefully conflated issues of their profits with our altruism.

What does my desire to care for my fellow American have to do with Aetna's bottom line? Before the ACA, nothing. Now, it's something like a hostage situation, I guess. Aetna's makes $$$ or nobody gets care...

[solarhydrocan]

214. Brilliant. You have summed up the essence of this perfectly.

Should be reposted.

Romulox:

The insurance industry purposefully conflated issues of their profits with our altruism.

What does my desire to care for my fellow American have to do with Aetna's bottom line? Before the ACA, nothing. Now, it's something like a hostage situation, I guess. Aetna's makes $$$ or nobody gets care...

There it is.

[hfojvt]

120. not quite

there seem to be many DUers who think all the extra taxes can be paid by the top 0.01% or maybe, if they are generous the top 1%.

Thus it is an outrage for somebody who makes $140,000 a year to pay more in taxes, even if they, themselves, do not even make close to $140,000 a year.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

139. This may come as a shock to you, but some in the middle class...

are just barely hanging on. They're trying to make ends meet, and paying insane amounts of money for their health insurance. The middle class has also been hit with the housing (manufactured) crisis. The middle class is trying to save for college educations. And the middle class is trying to save for retirement. My brother, his wife, and two kids are an example.

All Obama had to do was let those fucking Bush tax cuts expire FULLY as they were scheduled to do, and we'd be on our way back to fat and happy. Or at least some semblance of it. This is exactly what "they" want -- pit the middle and poorer classes against each other, while the upper classes make off like bandits.

I swear to God, if I hear "Grand Bargain" and "entitlement reform" in February, my head is going to explode.

[cash__whatiwant]

188. this! nt

[Democat]

222. I don't disagree that the middle class has been under attack for a long time

However, there doesn't seem to be any agreement on DU about exactly who should be paying more taxes, other than the super rich. People making $25,000 want to see people above $100,000 taxed increasingly. But we've also had people here on DU who make over $100,000 saying that they themselves are barely hanging on and therefor any increase in their insurance isn't fair. At some point, those making more have to pay more. It just isn't clear that those making more (not matter how much more) are going to be happy about that, even if they are democrats.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

242. I haven't come across too many DUers saying they're...

barely hanging on at $100K+; not saying they're not out there, I just don't recall those posts. Having lived in the DC area most of my life, I know that $100K isn't really all that much, at least these days. Taxing $250K+ is the magic number for me.

[hfojvt]

106. at which point were the voters told this?

Also, it seems incorrect to me to talk about all those people who "have to pay more".

You said
Young people will have to pay more ... not the ones who are lucky enough to be covered by their employers

Single men will have to pay more ... not the ones lucky enough to be covered by their employers

Plus, since there is no public option, you might as well be writing - "Young people will have to pay more to maintain insurance company profits." and "Healthy people will have to pay more to maintain insurance company profits."

[joeglow3]

135. Because those in group coverage are already spreading those costs

Why? Because it works and is the right thing to do. Why doesn't our president get up and speak about that? Instead, he folds like always...

[formernaderite]

247. come on Joe

If they hadn't repeated that ridiculous assertion about keeping your plan blah bah blah no one would be arguing this. But they probably would have had no chance at passing a bill where they honestly explained we would all be footing the bill for those who had less.

I always had my doubts, but didn't see paying double what I had been paying either... yes ins goes up... but I had literally been paying the same cost for almost ten years...

[NuclearDem]

11. *sigh* We need single payer so fucking bad.

[lostincalifornia]

58. and just how do you think that will happen? The media has already brainwashed the public with

repuke talking points, and it sure isn't in the cards now, or even when this was passed.

Just read the history of Orson Well's War of The Worlds. That incident in American history demonstrates how propaganda works, and how stupid and uninformed people are

[NuclearDem]

62. Well, it doesn't help when the only plan being pushed was the Heritage Foundation's brainchild

We could actually try selling single payer for once.

[lostincalifornia]

66. Let me make it clear, I wish we had single payer. However, there was no way it was going to happen.

You had liberman, bath, both nelsons, and a bunch of other blue dogs who would have seen to that

Until the populous starts electing more progressive representatives, it just won't happen

[eomer]

114. Lieberman's vote wasn't needed, actually.

The final legislation was a reconciliation bill, which can't be filibustered. So those last few votes in the Senate were not needed. The House had a Democratic majority.

What really stopped the public option was the President and the Democratic leadership of Congress deciding not to let it come up for a vote. They didn't want a vote on it because it had a chance of passing not because it didn't.

[NCTraveler]

81. "The media has already brainwashed the public with repuke talking points"

And the public still favors single payer. It is congress and the president who don't have the willpower to go against the insurance industry. The ACA did not come about because of how citizens felt. The people would go for single payer.

[Mojorabbit]

88. +100 nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

97. I agree! Why not stand up and fight for the ACA? Why not stand up to the fucking insurance industry?

[NCTraveler]

112. I am not sure I understand your two comments.

They seem to be contradictory.
"Why not stand up and fight for the ACA"
That is fighting for the insurance industry.
"Why not stand up to the fucking insurance industry"
That should have been done during the writing of the ACA.

I think my reading of your comments is flawed.

[Jesus Malverde]

169. No kidding...nt

Jesus

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

179. I'm talking about what the ACA does to keep the industry in check. While not perfect, it at least

forces the industry to adopt certain standards: no recission; no denying coverage for preexisting conditions; providing at least 80% in health care coverage; not overcharging for certain health care services, etc.

That's what I mean by "Why not stand up and fight for the ACA"

"Why not stand up to the fucking insurance industry"

Means why cave in to them by "fixing" a problem that is really not a problem. It is true that insurance plans were being canceled and those plans weren't really covering anything. You stand up to the insurance companies by forcing them to improve on those plans. You don't CAVE them, to the Republicans, the cowards in the Democratic Party, and certainly not Bill Clinton, by being a defeatist and accepting their narrative--that somehow allowing people to keep these "junk policies" is good for people. NO!! You stand your ground and make these insurance companies comply. If they are going to be a part of the federal health care exchanges, they must comply with the ACA. That's how you stand up to the industry.

Of course, at the very least we all wanted the public option. Look, we weren't going to get that. Talk to the Blue Dogs, many of them defeated and no longer in Congress, who rejected the public option. We never had the votes for a public option.

And most of us--myself included--see the ONLY fix to all of our problems with this health care system is a single payer approach. That's what I want. That's really what most of us want. We don't have a single payer system. I'm not sure we can ever get a single payer system. And the ACA is not the best approach but it is a start. But just because the ACA is not single payer doesn't mean that it is awful and that we can never work towards achieving that ultimate goal.

[NCTraveler]

181. "providing at least 80% in health care coverage"

I believe that almost all major insurers were at or higher than that threshold before the ACA. Few were lower than that. The 80% number was very important for them to keep running in the manner they were, and they got it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

184. In theory, yes, but not all in practice. Not all insurance companies did that. The ACA mandates that

ALL insurance companies provide *at least* that level of coverage. You're right, some provide much more than that. There are others that provide comprehensive coverage and that offer much more than that. The concept of competition should kick in here and that's why people "go shopping" on the exchanges. I get that.

So now today's talking point is the abysmal enrollment numbers. Well, they are "abysmal" because people are probably either (a) still navigating the site, (b) trying to get on the site, (c) doing research on the different plans (my mother was given at least 30 different plans to choose from; it's going to take her some time to compare), or (d) some combination.

And as I said, the ACA is far from perfect.

But no one is offering an alternative other than our side, with the public option or single payer. Well, we know that we're not getting either of the two, even when we enjoyed the majority in Congress. We can blame that on the Blue Dogs.

And to be frank with you, NCTraveler, even when Bill Clinton was in office and he attempted to present a single payer-like health care plan back then, he received the most resistance from conservative and corporate Democrats. It's the same as what Obama has faced. Nothing different here.

It seems that people here on the left who bash the ACA are upset with it because it's not single payer or a public option. Or, because it came from Obama and they don't like him. Whatever. It's what we have. It can be improved. And it's damn sure better than what we had before. And those complaining from the Political Left can't tell me how we can get anything better through Congress. So we're stuck. And because we're stuck, I think there's something we can do to improve the ACA so we might as well promote it, stand by it, push it and not be cowards about it. Most Democrats voted for it. They need to stop being weak-kneed and support it. Go out there and fight for it. We can discuss how we can and WILL BE improved on when we elect more progressives to office. But for now, the ACA is all we got. We can't afford to go backwards to what we had before.

[lostincalifornia]

104. That may be true, then why don't they vote for representatives that favor single payer?

[NCTraveler]

117. There are many reasons for that.

One is that it is not a sexy campaign issue. Using it on the stump is very difficult. That being said, both Obama and Clinton outlined their healthcare ideas during the primary, and neither was even close to single payer. Hillarycare ended up winning out in the end.

Also, the geographical manner in which congress is elected. It does not necessary lend it self to the will of the people at the end of the day.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

183. "Hillarycare" ended up winning but she didn't. Why? And Hillycare lost bigtime in 1994. I agree that

Americans want single payer when asked the right questions in the right way. But when it all boils down to it, Americans continue to elect people who do not reflect those views. Again, it's easier to pontificate the reasons why, but it is what it is. We didn't have the votes for single payer or for public option. We never did. Our goal is to elect progressives to office who support single payer and reflect the will of the people and what we want. As long as we continue on with Dr. Dean's 50 State Strategy, we'll get all kinds of Democrats in office, many of whom will not be progressive. DU doesn't like to hear this truth, but it is the truth! As must as we love Dean, his 50 State Strategy gave us plenty of Blue Dog Democrats who, quite frankly, gave us almost as much trouble as the Republicans did.

[lostincalifornia]

239. That is the best description and explanation I have heard on this issue.

[bobduca]

235. Because the Party Machine won't allow those candidates onto the ballot

"Pragmatism" for the win!

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. Why not Medicare for Everyone. The system is already in place and who doesn't like Medicare?

[Niceguy1]

213. question is how to pay for it....

Money doesn't grow on trees....

[RBInMaine]

215. It is CHEAPER than insurance. No profit. You pay tax instead of premiums. Simple.

[jtuck004]

144. The Myth of the War of the Worlds Panic <You mean the real history, or the myth?

Good of you to bring this up.

'Cause the supposed large-scale panic never happened. It's a myth, sold to us by the newspapers whose business interests were threatened by radio. So if there had been the WILL to sell the American public on Single Payer, if the people who guaranteed profit for health insurance companies had wanted to remove the threat and harm greedy insurance companies and their stockholders are doing to health care, it appears that it could have happened just this way. But when one sees the profit of companies as more important than the people, well, tough to get up the urge to fight that good ol' populist fight, eh?

The point we should take from this, the opposite of what you are suggesting, I think, is that the President COULD have sold single payer, if he had been adept enough, maybe had the skills of a good, say, community organizer, and wasn't there to serve the interests of the moneyed insurance companies and Wall Street.

Read here, and enjoy.

...
There’s only one problem: The supposed panic was so tiny as to be practically immeasurable on the night of the broadcast. Despite repeated assertions to the contrary in the PBS and NPR programs, almost nobody was fooled by Welles’ broadcast.

How did the story of panicked listeners begin? Blame America’s newspapers. Radio had siphoned off advertising revenue from print during the Depression, badly damaging the newspaper industry. So the papers seized the opportunity presented by Welles’ program to discredit radio as a source of news. The newspaper industry sensationalized the panic to prove to advertisers, and regulators, that radio management was irresponsible and not to be trusted. In an editorial titled “Terror by Radio,” the New York Times reproached “radio officials” for approving the interweaving of “blood-curdling fiction” with news flashes “offered in exactly the manner that real news would have been given.” Warned Editor and Publisher, the newspaper industry’s trade journal, “The nation as a whole continues to face the danger of incomplete, misunderstood news over a medium which has yet to prove ... that it is competent to perform the news job.”

The contrast between how newspaper journalists experienced the supposed panic, and what they reported, could be stark. In 1954, Ben Gross, the New York Daily News’ radio editor, published a memoir in which he recalled the streets of Manhattan being deserted as his taxi sped to CBS headquarters just as War of the Worlds was ending. Yet that observation failed to stop the Daily News from splashing the panic story across this legendary cover a few hours later.

From these initial newspaper items on Oct. 31, 1938, the apocryphal apocalypse only grew in the retelling. A curious (but predictable) phenomenon occurred: As the show receded in time and became more infamous, more and more people claimed to have heard it. As weeks, months, and years passed, the audience’s size swelled to such an extent that you might actually believe most of America was tuned to CBS that night. But that was hardly the case.

Far fewer people heard the broadcast—and fewer still panicked—than most people believe today. How do we know? The night the program aired, the C.E. Hooper ratings service telephoned 5,000 households for its national ratings survey. “To what program are you listening?” the service asked respondents. Only 2 percent answered a radio “play” or “the Orson Welles program,” or something similar indicating CBS. None said a “news broadcast,” according to a summary published in Broadcasting. In other words, 98 percent of those surveyed were listening to something else, or nothing at all, on Oct. 30, 1938. This miniscule rating is not surprising. Welles’ program was scheduled against one of the most popular national programs at the time—ventriloquist Edgar Bergen’s Chase and Sanborn Hour, a comedy-variety show.

[TwilightGardener]

12. I think the way the law was written caused many policies to get caught in a bigger net

than they had planned--I read that any change whatsoever to individual policies since 2010 meant the policies couldn't be grandfathered in. I also don't think they anticipated that insurance co's would cancel plans a year early (they had until end of 2014)--so the bad website combined with all the cancellations these past couple months offered up a one-two punch they didn't see coming.

[yellowcanine]

13. They didn't. This is the insurance companies cancelling policies and using ACA as cover.

They could continue the policies. They just choose not to - and they are trying to say it is ACA. It isn't.

[eqfan592]

86. This. the big lie is taking hold it seems. nt

[Whisp]

98. Yes.

But big bad dumb Obama is to blame for it all! for it all I tell ya!

good freaking lord. I am beginning to know this stupid song by heart.

[krkaufman]

121. Well, now that he's taking the blame...

... he's certainly gonna be the one blamed.

I can see the angle that insurance companies are taking advantage of the ACA to take one last stab at plundering their customers, but it baffles me that the Obama Admin hasn't been more up-front about putting the responsibility on the insurers, for unnecessarily canceling policies.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

189. I agree with this. Because Obama is apologizing for something that he has no reason to apologize for

People are wrongly believing that he lied; that he, not the insurance companies, are to blame.

I think he's being quite the coward. Even people here on DU are believing that the president lied and lied again. He didn't. But, because he is behaving like a complete coward, apologizing and shit and refusing to stand up to the insurance industry, it is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Voice for Peace]

131. ++

[Half-Century Man]

145. The united insurance corporations are trying to discredit

the ACA, to head off public options being implemented by states.
Wasn't some state (Vermont?) going to place a public option coverage on the table 1 month after the ACA sign up started?
If they don't kill it when it is young. It is going to eat them later.

[Jesus Malverde]

172. If this is true

The talking points about these being deficient worthless plans is misguided and wrongly places the blame on the consumer.

[Union Scribe]

199. But we all knew they were scorpions.

We all knew they'd sting the frog. So how did the administration wind up having to SCRAMBLE to manage that angle?

[uponit7771]

236. +1

[CountAllVotes]

14. The thieves are out with long knives

Seems I've been posting this comment on/off for the past several years and yes indeed, the thieves are indeed out with long knives.

If you don't even know what you wrote or did, I'd say we've got a batch of idiots running the show in full denial mode ...

We didn't know is what they have to say ...

Uh huh ...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

163. I didn't follow the DU ACA wars that closely...

but I do remember this: Camp One proclaimed the ACA was THE BESTEST WE'LL EVER GET!JOE LIEBERMAN!NOT A DICTATOR!NO PONIES!!RACIST11! Camp Two pointed out flaws, especially how the insurance companies will get theirs, no matter what. Any time a Camp Two prediction came true, Camp One 1 ALWAYS responded with "well, who could have anticipated that?"

Indeed, here we are, yet again.

[Whisp]

15. Here we go again...

I'm bookmarking this. deja vu all over again.

[cali]

53. how so?

[arthritisR_US]

17. They did not expect the insurance companies to

be dishonest brokers, they were naive.

[L0oniX]

18. Just who do you think they work for??? Us???

[joeglow3]

20. And our weak ass president is PISSING ME OFF

He has no re-election to worry about. He could stand firm and do what is right. In the long term, history will show him standing up to be the right thing. But his fucking ego is so weak that he cannot stand the short term hit and he is folding like a spineless wimp.

I hope and pray that I see an actual politician like the campaigning Obama in my lifetime...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

65. Nice going. You are 100% class.

Just kidding. Your rudeness is pathetic.

[joeglow3]

70. And your ass kissing of the president accomplishes nothing

In fact, it enables the crappy decision he is making. The health care plan is contingent upon people who use services less paying a share of those services to keep costs manageable. By removing that, he has completely neutered his plan. And he did this because of a vocal minority and being concerned with what people think of him TODAY. He needs to be the man he said he was when running for president and stand up for what is right. Who gives a shit if some mouth-breathing morons with an IQ of 50 are pissed? History WILL play out and show him as a leader on the right side of the issue if he stands up. Sadly, he has made it clear he intends to fold.

[SammyWinstonJack]

83. +1.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

122. I laugh at your supposed knowledge on this subject. You have no idea what you're talking about

Your default position is "President Obama folds. President Obama will fold." You see it through no other lens so your opinion and blah blah blah blah is completely illegitimate.

You and all the other bleating "never ever satisified" liberals are on the wrong side of history. Keep searching for your McGoven Part 2. We'll keep electing and supporting Democrats who get things done. Hard to implement an agenda when you lose in a 49 state landslide.

[joeglow3]

133. Get shit done.....and then undo it.

That sure as shit does a lot of good...

[Whisp]

100. I think that's a Janie. N/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

123. what is a Janie?

[Whisp]

138. see your mail. n/t

[Union Scribe]

200. Glass houses, PW. nt

[Voice for Peace]

132. keep in mind that your point of view is not universal, nor necessarily true for anyone

except yourself. Even if others may agree,
it is only a point of view, one of billions.

[Bandit]

21. When you adopt Republican created policies and try and make them Democratic

You are guaranteed many disappointments.

[HijackedLabel]

22. I doubt anyone was blindsided...

It was more of an underestimation of American stupidity and spitefulness.

Only a small number of people are affected, but the media is amplifying their whiny stories.

[TwilightGardener]

27. Even if the rollout had gone much more smoothly, they'd amplify and trumpet ANYTHING

to make it look like a failure. Republicans in fact are openly announcing their intent to screech about it until weak-ass Democrats fold. And since the media always adopts the Republican narrative, they've already pronounced it a dismal failure six weeks in.

[FarCenter]

31. But the cancellations mean they'll have to handle a few hundred thousand enrollments a day

There are millions that need to enroll between 11/30 when the site is fully operational and 12/15 which is the deadline for enrollment in new coverage to start 1/1/14.

[TwilightGardener]

36. Right--that's why it was a one-two punch the administration didn't see coming.

Obama clearly didn't know the website would be effed up. And insurers decided to dump people THIS YEAR instead of next year. So the logical fix is to roll back the cancellations until the system can handle the new enrollees.

[B2G]

44. It's NOT a fix!

a. He can't summarily change the law
b. He can't force them to reinstate policies
c. If they do decide to reinstate, they will be lucky to do it and re-enroll people in 30 days to ensure uninterrupted coverage.

Does anyone know what is involved in reinstating a defunct policy?

[TwilightGardener]

47. I kind of have to discount anything you say, because you've been cheerleading for ACA failure

relentlessly. I wish I could find you credible to discuss this with, but I can't.

[watoos]

155. They aren't defunct until

at least Jan 1, correct? Just send out a notice of continuation of policy, no?

[B2G]

158. It's not that simple

[truebluegreen]

231. "He can't force them to reinstate policies"

just as he couldn't prevent them from cancelling them. At least this way the cancellations are on the insurance companies.

Not perfect, but the best he can do. Certainly a legislative fix is far more likely to irrevocably damage the program.

[treestar]

92. Agreed.

Too often people jump on the corporate media bandwagon, often the same ones who complain that is bought and paid for - "corporate." Then why accept its conclusions wholesale?

[Whisp]

102. a paradox.

don't trust the corporate media! but if that corporate media makes shit up and stirs shit up against the ACA or anything Admin, then hell, let's take their word for anything!

lol.

[quinnox]

23. At least Obama appears to realize there are serious problems

The bubble around him was pierced. I have read he is surrounded by yes men, who don't tell him any bad news. Maybe Bill Clinton should be thanked for speaking out too.

[Joey Liberal]

84. I still don't think he understands all of the problems

And I say that as a proud Liberal Democrat, who used to have decent insurance.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

190. No. Bill Clinton made things much worse. He should shut up and sit down somewhere.

[dawg]

24. I'm fine with letting people keep their crappy policies.

Change the legislation to allow that, if we must.

As long as better coverage is available to all, with adequate subsidies to make it affordable, I don't have a real problem with grandfathering the policies currently in existence. It's just a matter of changing the grandfather date from 2010 to 1/1/14 (or 3/31/14).

That's a compromise I can live with.

[HijackedLabel]

28. I'm not. I'd rather people with shit plans pay 10x more for new policies...

Than give the Republicans a win.

[dawg]

32. It wouldn't be much of a win for the Republicans.

I actually think it would blow up in their faces. Many of those people would wind up switching to ACA policies anyway .... by choice. Once they realize the subsidies they are eligible for, it's a no-brainer for most folks.

We hear lots and lots about all the people too rich to qualify for subsidies, but the reality is that those people represent the lucky few.

Something does, however, need to be changed in order to provide subsidies for lower-income people in Republican states that refused to expand Medicaid.

[progressoid]

225. No.

[gcomeau]

29. They weren't.

They were blindsided by the stupid. People thinking that telling them the ACA wasn't going to make them lose their current plans or doctors meant somehow that the ACA was going to nationalize the entire healthcare industry and force all doctors to never drop a patient or all insurance companies ti never change their product offerings, rather than what any sane person knew that meant which was that the ACA was allowing all plans in effect as of it's passage to remain in place. The ACA wasn't going to force anyone off their plans it had when they passed it.

WHICH WAS EXACTLY TRUE.

You want to get angry at people for something get angry at the general public and the media for the epic levels of obtuseness.

[Whisp]

38. Exactly. And Big Mouth Bill didn't help either.

oy.

[JoePhilly]

74. Exactly. nt

[SunSeeker]

165. THANK YOU!! nt

[uponit7771]

237. +1

[Whisp]

35. I don't know why this is so shitfit worthy:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/14/21452693-obama-to-speak-on-health-care-amid-rumors-of-fix?lite

A senior Democratic source told NBC News that Obama would announce that those people with insurance policies that are being canceled because they do not meet Obamacare's standards will be allowed to renew them, but that insurance companies will be required to tell people re-enrolling about alternative options and the benefits they will lose.

[asjr]

37. Issa led his private hacking men to

go into the ACA account to mess it up! Or maybe McConnell's thugs. I would not doubt that they would do it.

[Common Sense Party]

57. What the what???

Please explain.

[NM_Birder]

67. Cheap weed, and a foil wrapped toilet paper pipe.

[Whisp]

110. or denial of service attacks.

which is really only a conspiracy, that could Never happen.

[One_Life_To_Give]

39. The Insurance Co's know exactly what they wrote

We hope the congressional staff has time enough to read and digest what the proposed legislation means. But given the voluminous nature of some legislation that isn't realistic.

[SoCalDem]

69. and you can be sure they flooded the zone with those $50 a month policies

to as many young healthy people as possible, so that when the ACA took effect THEY would whine & cry about having to pay more (most had probably never "tested" the efficacy of those crappola policies, so they are quite unhappy to pay the price of a real policy.

It;s like buying a cheapo used car.. That $500 car is the best thing ever, until you break down at midnight on a deserted road & there's no cell-signal..

[One_Life_To_Give]

130. When profit is capped at 15% of Policy Rate

Don't be surprised that cheap policies become impossible to keep. The money for them is in giving everyone a Cadillac Plan.

[seveneyes]

40. What was in it

Well, it had to be passed to see what was in it. /s

[joeybee12]

41. Someone really needed to make sure the launch was perfect...or pretty damn close...

How did they think that any little mistake would not be jumped on? Did they move out for Washington for a few years? This is the way this cesspool of a city runs and they didn't pay attention.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Actually, political fear of mistakes was a major part of the flawed end-product.

They were so afraid of having a more open process in terms of bringing in outside experts, admitting problems and requesting delays (thus exposing them to Republican ridicule), that they kept it all hidden and rushed a crappy website, I guess just magically hoping it would work out OK. I do think Obama was blindsided by that. I think his advisors told him that it would be fine.

[joeybee12]

45. Probably, and he doesn't seem like the type to press the issue with them...

And have them prove it was fine...oh well...I keep thinking Dems might someday learn, and they don't.

[Romulox]

43. Private insurers are the absolute worst feature of US healthcare. Who thought mandating a purchase

from these self-same bad actors would improve anything?

[Fumesucker]

46. No one could have predicted that private insurers and Republicans would bork the ACA rollout

[quinnox]

79. lol

There she floats!

[Puzzledtraveller]

51. It relies completely on the private market too.

There was no new program created, even Medicaid expansion is not a feature exclusive to the ACA. Technically Medicaid funding could have been increased to expand Medicaid in all states in seperate legislation.

[JVS]

173. But if we mandate you to pay weekly fees to muggers in your neighborhood, they won't be as violent!

Don't you want to curb violence?

[fredamae]

48. Because the GOP

is relentless with the Help of MSM/Corp to Find Any Small Weakness/Problem and Exploit it in the greatness of exaggeration...

Making something out Nothing in otherwise "normal and expected" delays/hiccups/glitches in the regular day in-day out processes for the rollout of anything at any time is BS...Only the ACA is the Exception and was not considered your "normal" rollout--nooooo-it was and is to this day-attacked and sabotaged from the moment the bill was passed.
First the GOP Underfunded the rollout-then took More funding in the sequester-then MSM started with Their crap-then the GOP Shutdown likely claimed Staffing as "Non-essential" further impeding the rollout on the Day of the rollout--and Why Dems aren't out there Screaming about these unnecessary and intentional attempts to slow it down, to harm public opinion etc I do Not understand. If the GOP had been fully cooperative and were Willing to properly fund this--it wouldn't Be an issue.
And to lay as the central point "Obama Lied" is nothing more than a distraction away from the Real cause of all the negativity and that was and still Is the GOP...Imo-PBO did Not lie--Most folks understand there is Nothing in Govt and/or Life that is 100%..I don't believe PBO Lied--he may have chosen different words, could have been a bit more specific perhaps - But it will be a cold day in Hell that I'll accept anyones opinion that he Intentionally Lied/Misled on this. There is Nothing unusual (except for the GOP's hand in diminishing the ACA)with this rollout that makes the "glitches" anything more that "normal" when beginning any new Massive program.

And the other Biggie was the Fact that starting off-36 States Refused to participate-Far Exceeding ANY reasonable ability to predict/forecast what the System Use Load might be-coupled with inadequate funds to get the best from the start....
So yes, at this juncture for Lack of Democratic support and their Willingness to buy into the GOP BS is Remarkable and chickenshit imo.

Without GOP interference and Democrats Willingness to once Again Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory--this "bumpy rollout" wouldn't have made headlines Anywhere.

[Fumesucker]

49. O'Really?

[Whisp]

50. Nothing to get asshairs all afire about.

The President is speaking and making sense. He is not throwing ACA away forever. He is holding up fine, as always, to the ridiculousness and idiotic drama that surrounds him.

wtf.

[Voice for Peace]

143. ++

thanks.. agree, wtf

[Rex]

52. Ghost writers in the sky?

You know like how every famous pundit 'pens' a book with a teeny tiny amount of help from a litterateur?

Autopilot?

[Packerowner740]

55. I don't think most of them knew what was in it before passing it.

That was what pelosi said, right?

[flamingdem]

56. Don't be shortsighted. They had to rely on the insurance mafia

to be reasonable.

They're not.

[Yo_Mama]

59. This is confusing, to be sure

I don't even understand how this is possible in the broader scheme of things.

[TBF]

60. This is what happens when you let

the lobbyists write the bills. And yes in Washington it happens ALL the time.

But he is doing a piss poor job of handling the fall out. The blame belongs to the insurance companies cancelling the plans and he should be shoveling it back at them rather than apologizing.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

63. Settle the fuck down. Remember the rolling disaster of Iraq? THAT'S a quagmire

This is political theater around the necessarily difficult implementation where there are losers to go alIng with the winners.

Go chop and stack some wood or something.

[Joey Liberal]

77. You settle the fuck down

My insurance is a disaster now. I'm not going to settle down.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

109. sounds like Obama took care of you today. Bye bye.

[Joey Liberal]

207. No, he didn't

Adios!

[bklyncowgirl]

64. It was the perfect storm really.

Complicated legislation written largely by the insurance companies who want to insure first of all that they continue to make huge profits meets easily corrupted Congress. A President all too eager to throw off parts objectionable to the insurance companies and the congresscritters they own.

The resulting legislation is far from perfect but still better than nothing. Perhaps if the Obama administration had paid a little more attention to the details of getting it out, beta testing the website until it was perfect and if necessary delaying implementation until they got it right, much of the bad press could have been avoided as people whose policies were cancelled quickly found better replacements at decent prices but that, of course did not happen.

The combination of incompetence and arrogance is really what has turned this into a mess that could have been avoided.

[RobinA]

89. See, This Is What I Said

below. Beta testing???? The highest level guy in the project who suggested beta testing is probably so far down the food chain that his urgent cries never even made it out of the deep hole he works in.

I know. I'm not in IT, but I work in a similar hole. A year after you strongly suggest that something be done, or not done, everybody wonders what went wrong. You remember your suggestion of a year ago, but by then there's just no point....

[RandiFan1290]

68. Easy

[bluedeathray]

71. "We've got to pass it to see what's in it." Nancy Pelosi nt

[boston bean]

72. Some people owe the big blue dog Bill Clinton an apology.

Seems as though he was floating a trial balloon for Obama.

[DonCoquixote]

94. hello no

The big Dog is one of the people pulling this country to the right, period.

[Whisp]

105. Sled Dog Billie, always pulling to the right. n/t

[krkaufman]

137. Or ...

... another possibility is that Clinton was just being Clinton, possibly still holding a grudge, and made a comment that tipped the scales to the point forcing Obama to take action.

Further, a trial balloon from Clinton was unnecessary, since letting people keep their (flawed, existing) plans was already a topic of discussion.

[FarCenter]

73. I'm pretty sure that in 2009 they chose 2013 and later implementation dates for a reason

It was always pretty clear that the most objectionable parts of the ACA were being delayed past the next presidential election.

There are still "revenue enhancers" to come into effect as late as 2016 IIRC. Pretty sure that the hope is that they won't be obvious to the public before the next presidential election.

[Joey Liberal]

75. It's a damn shame

There are a lot of people like me whose insurance went from good to bad. That seems to be ignored.

[Demo_Chris]

127. You don't matter, nor do the tens of millions of working poor about to be hammered...

With an extra bill they CANNOT afford on their Walmart or Target or Home Depot or Lowes or McDonalds salaries. You know, America's largest employers, all grinding their workers part time at $8 or $9 an hour. That's the group getting absolutely bent over. The single mom working at Target trying to figure out how to get by on 17K a year, who now suddenly discovers that she has a fifty or hundred dollar a month Obamacare bill to fit in as well. And if she doesn't she gets HAMMERED with a fine.

And Democrats are saying she needs to learn to budget her money better.

[Joey Liberal]

205. I thought republicans were saying that

truth is, we need single payer.

[Demo_Chris]

206. You can read it here as well. We need to scrap this crap and get single payer. nt

[krkaufman]

142. lacking context

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Why did your insurance go "from good to bad"? How did ACA play a role in that?

[Voice for Peace]

147. you keep making this point but I'm wondering if you have laid it all out here so we can know what

you are referring to?

and possibly that somebody here who is knowledgeable
could help you find insurance that goes from good to
awesome.

or not, I'm just asking.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

175. Last week on PBS, a 2x Obama-voting, self-employed woman...

was interviewed about how she was getting the shaft. She did NOT have a shitty plan.

Understanding why Americans' insurance plans are being canceled

....

Case in point, Deborah Persico, a self-employed criminal defense lawyer in Washington, D.C., who frequently defends the indigent.

....

I have excellent coverage with the plan I now have. I have hospitalization, and doctor care, and labs, and blood tests, physical therapy, ambulance, hospitalization. I mean, everything is included in this plan that I feel I would need.

What I found in the bronze level, not the platinum level, in the bronze level, there's a PPO HSA policy that, between the higher premiums and the much higher maximum out-of-pocket costs, will cost me probably more than $5,000 a year more than what I'm already paying for health insurance.

....

It's been a total sticker shock. I have had some health issues this year, and I have had to reduce some of my workload. It's a real hardship right now. My husband is 67 years old. I'm 58. We are desperately trying to save for retirement.

....

So, as far as I'm concerned, the insurance companies, the president and Congress are all complicit in this dishonesty.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs/july-dec13/health_11-12.html

I don't care what ANYONE on this board says, that is simply not fair. I'm not ignoring it.

[BKH70041]

76. You really want to know how?

Really?

It's nothing that's been said on this thread so far, and won't be anything anyone writes after my post, either.

The reason how isn't that hard to know.

The problem is you can't talk about it on this site because doing so will get you banned.

But look around elsewhere, and you'll find out. That is if you really want to know.

[Voice for Peace]

149. oooh intriguing.. it must be an evil conspiracy theory if it's banned here

[LondonReign2]

186. Ancient Aliens? That's my guess

[RobinA]

85. I Believe

they were blindsided. Why? Because no one running things in Washington these days appears to have any acquaintance, or at least any recent acquaintance, with the real world. They all went to the same three Ivy schools. They all come from the same two industries, academia and finance - neither known for its connection to actual people. They taught each other, they mentor each other, they hire each other, they work for each other.

They don't have to worry about insurance companies, credit card companies or banks (except the ones they run). They don't know how Joe Average thinks or interprets what they say. (Hence, "You can keep your policy.&quot They don't know how insurance companies operate with their policy-holders. ("Surprise! We're cancelling policies now so we can blame Obamacare!&quot . They have "people" who deal with software and most other operations of day to day life for them, so they don't get (on an operational basis) that glitchy software even exists.

The political elite in this country is getting further and further from ever having actually DONE anything in life or ever having lived as the rest of the population lives. So they don't anticipate the kind of problems we're seeing with ACA. They all need to go manage a McDonalds for three years and then come back with some education about how the world and people in it work and how to solve the resultant problems.

Incidently, I think this is part of the attraction so many have to Chris Christie. He's a loudmouth, a bully, walks around with his foot in his mouth half the time, isn't exactly your movie image of a US president, isn't the moderate he gets credit for being, but he's a real person who seems to come from the same planet as the rest of us.

[krkaufman]

125. Obama too trusting... or naive

Just seems like Obama's familiar weakness of underestimating the depths to which his adversaries will go to maintain the status quo and their power. He's repeatedly assumed Republicans would act rationally, and, seeing the ACA, assumed that insurers would be a cooperating partner in helping make the act successful.

Definitely not living in the real world.

[Demo_Chris]

128. well said. nt

[libdem4life]

87. It's not like the Heritage Foundation was the first or only national health care plan put in writing

20 years ago: Very familiar...

"Millions of Americans are just a pink slip away from losing their health insurance, and one serious illness away from losing all their savings. Millions more are locked into the jobs they have now just because they or someone in their family has once been sick and they have what is called the preexisting condition. And on any given day, over 37 million Americans—most of them working people and their little children—have no health insurance at all. And in spite of all this, our medical bills are growing at over twice the rate of inflation, and the United States spends over a third more of its income on health care than any other nation on Earth."

Remember what they did to HillaryCare? Had forgotten or never knew it wasn't even a single payer plan.

"Democrats offered a number of competing plans of their own. Hillary Clinton was drafted by the Clinton Administration to head a new Task Force and sell the plan to the American people, a plan which ultimately backfired amid the barrage of fire from the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries and considerably diminished her own popularity. By September 1994, the final compromise Democratic bill was declared dead by Senate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

The bit about "just a website" is fast becoming "wait a year" which could keep some Tea Party folks alive for 2014 and make no mistake, they have it pegged for 2016. Have to have something to fill in for the crickets now on Benghazi.

PBO is either very dense, stunningly insulated from a full spectrum of advisers, or temporarily blinded by his own need for Legacy Legislation to go down in history as more than just the first black President. I sincerely hope he succeeds...for our country, our health care, and for his Legacy.

[Sheepshank]

93. I honestly don't think the Insurance company lies, misinformation

and overt dissemination of lies was predictable. The fines and sanctions levied against the insurance companies involved is the deceptive practices, recently publisized, is disheartening at least.

They organized so quickly to provide a littany of lies to the consumer, and the adminstration can't mop that up fast enough. I imagine this will legislatively addressed soon too.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

96. Which legislators wrote the bill? And why are they allowing Obama to take the blame for it?

Obama didn't write it. THEY did!!!

Who were the cosponsors of this bill?

And which Democrats voted for it in the House? In the Senate?

Why are Democrats such fucking cowards? Why aren't they standing behind this president, having his back?

They fucking knew what was in this bill when (a) they wrote it; (b) they passed it in the House; (c) they passed it in the Senate...

[badtoworse]

107. How many of them bothered to read it?

That's the real problem.

[totodeinhere]

119. When the president signs the bill he has ultimate responsibility for it. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

185. As do the Democrats who crafted the bill and voted for it. n/t

[Demo_Chris]

148. Because they didn't spend months running around the country lying about what it said...

In our culture, deliberately deceiving people for personal gain is not considered morally acceptable behavior. It's a REALLY BIG DEAL.

President Obama believed the lies would be less damaging to his campaign than the truth. So he lied. Over and over and over again.

lied / ly·ing

Definition of LIE

intransitive verb

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2: to create a false or misleading impression

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

187. President did not lie. That is Corporate Media bullshit spin.

[Whisp]

196. Don't call the President a liar.

That is the work of the Joe Wilson. It doesn't belong here. wtf is the matter with you?

[Demo_Chris]

201. What alternative label would ease your pain? The definition:

lied / ly·ing

Definition of LIE

intransitive verb

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2: to create a false or misleading impression

So again, what would you prefer? Maybe we should invent a special word, something positive sounding, like maybe "supertruthiness." That's a good one. It sorta suggests President Obama has moved beyond the natural bonds of traditional word meanings, and now operates in some preternatural extra-dimention of truthiness where words mean whatever we want them to mean, whenever we want them to mean them. It's complicated, but then I am not gifted with "supertruthiness."

Whatever label you prefer, just let me know.

[Whisp]

202. I see a definition of Joe Wilson and his many buds. n/t

[liberal N proud]

103. Health care lobbiest wrote the damn thing

Not the Administration. He pushed for Health Care reform so therefore he is to blame in the eyes of the right, the media and now a majority of Americans thanks to the latter.

[lostincalifornia]

118. I think the ACA is better than what was before, but blaming it on lobbyists is bull. Politicians

have a choice. They thought by taking the heritage foundation plan they might get some repukes, which they didn't.

The blue dog democrats did not help the situation either

[liberal N proud]

152. So it is the politicians fault that the lobbyist wrote the bill

Kill the lobbying and then the legislators have to legislate.

[lostincalifornia]

159. Yes it is their fault

[winter is coming]

108. The same way they were so utterly surprised that red states would turn down Medicaid expansion. n/t

[Dopers_Greed]

111. Exactly

Obama is now reaping what he sowed by letting insurance companies write goodies for themselves into the law.

Even if he fixes it, the PR against him has been so bad that Repugs have the advantage now. And the ACA will get repealed the second they take the Presidency or Senate.

[Orsino]

113. Blindsided by the media spin, maybe, and forced to be seen acting. n/t

[Boom Sound 416]

115. Thank you!

[lynne]

116. No one was blindsided. Not the President. Not Congress. Not the media.

- and not the insurance companies. And Mega-Shame on the public if we were blindsided. We should be smarter than that.

If you lease a Ford 2 dr. sdn. and decide you want to switch to a Dodge 4x4 truck, do you think your same lease contract and monthly fee will apply? What if you want to switch to a three bedroom apartment after renting a one bedroom, do you seriously think your lease agreement and monthly rent won't be changed?

There are changes to these policies that the companies had to incorporate into new contracts effective January 1, 2014. New standards, new coverages that must be provided. That's going to require a new contract. They had to re-write all policy provisions in preparation for the change effective Jan. 2014. Some companies chose to cancel and re-write policies as the original contract was changed so much. Frankly, that's probably a more efficient way to handle it then to issue you pages and pages of endorsements amending the original contract combined with an additional premium fee.

Of course premiums are going to increase unless you qualify for a subsidy. When was the last time you got something for nothing? You may get a lot of what you don't need but that's now the law. My 81 year old widowed mother will soon have maternity and pediatric health, vision, and dental benefits. But no actual vision or dental benefits for herself. She'll pay for something she cannot use yet doesn't have the coverage she actually needs. And she'll pay more than she did before.

No, mom doesn't have what the media has coined as a "junk" policy. She's retired from the federal government so her policy is a good one but all must be changed and all must comply. And all premiums on all policies will be adjusted accordingly.

The best you can do now is hope you qualify for a subsidy. Those that don't will have to find other ways to adjust their premiums and that's only going to be to increase the deductibles. You'll pay out more at both ends - premium and deductible - before breaking even.

It's a quagmire, for sure. And, it's a crying shame.

[krkaufman]

124. 1000 pages

I'm sure we'll hear that the length and complexity of the legislation played a part ... and that the only way to avoid the next unseen catastrophe, before it hits, is to nullify the legislation, in advance.

[Voice for Peace]

126. so you are agreeing with, for example,

Major Garrett, who suggested the same thing?
ie, the president had intentionally been dishonest?

And his question in response, do you really think
he would have promoted this and made those statements
if he had known how it would go?

[Keefer]

129. Another bad thing.

This basically just pushes this out to just after the 2014 midterm election. Just in time for the pukes to "remind" people what will happen a couple of months later.

[hughee99]

136. It looks even worse when, if you think back, repukes were claiming people were going

to lose their health plans. As I remember, that's why the president was out there saying "if you like your plan, you can keep it" in the first place. Now I know they were spreading their usual doom-and-gloom horseshit and weren't referring to this particular situation, but to the person who casually follows this sort of stuff, it's not going to take much for the repukes to make those people think they knew what they were talking about back when this was being discussed.

[reflection]

141. The Republicans smell blood in the water now and are circling.

That's probably the part that pisses me off the most right now. For all their blustering, they were playing defense. Now they're going to be on offense for awhile. Sigh.

[AtheistCrusader]

146. I think they just underestimated the volume to which the small number of individual plans

getting canceled, not by the ACA, but rather by the insurance companies, would be played up in the media.

It is politically un-tenable at this point to rely on correcting the record on just what is being canceled, and why.
Which is bullshit but... what can you do when the media has latched onto the other side's shit.

[Whisp]

150. Sorry, the Rude Pundit wins this one hands down:

Instead of Barack Obama and the House GOP agreeing that the law is the law and making it function for Americans, we get the sight of Obama appearing before the press corps and saying, more or less, "Goddamn, I'm sick of you motherfuckers whining about your shitty ass health insurance getting canceled because your provider is just a bunch of sick, greedy dickheads who would murder you where you sit if it would squeeze one more cent of profit out of your useless bodies. You wanna cling to your high deductible, low benefit policy for another year because you're scared that the black man president might be right and all that Fox 'news' noise might be wrong? Fine. Fuck it. Kiss my ass and keep your shit plan. Don't come whining to me when it turns out that your insurer drops your sorry ass when you get too sick for it. You asked to be grandfathered in, so lick grandpa's balls and tell me how tasty they are now. Now, can we please talk about the fact that Republicans want to kick over 100,000 people who just got insurance off it?"

[Brigid]

157. Another priceless rant from the Rude One.

[Whisp]

164. That is about the best summary out there.

It is packed with truth and a lot of expletives that I want to use but am holding back.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

191. He needs to direct that to Bill Clinton who still holds a grudge that this black man won!

I don't trust Bill Clinton. Never have.

[Whisp]

193. Nope. Plain as day he's in it all for himself. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

195. Yep, that too!

[Mr Dixon]

229. Agreed

Some people just can't be helped and I'm getting tired of the BS, keep your old policy and move on.

[Brigid]

151. I am seeing an ad on the bottom of this thread . . .

For health insurance for $19 a month. Now I ask you -- who is dumb enough to think this is anything but one of those junk policies that people are whining about losing?

[ProSense]

153. Because Landrieu is a

"genius" (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024028231) and all the Democrats who jumped on the "fix" bandwagon are heroes.

[Major Hogwash]

154. Hahahaha!!!!!

President Obama pulled the rug out from under the Rethuglicans yet again!
They were scheduled to offer a bill -- tomorrow -- to do what President Obama did today!!

Ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

[Whisp]

160. Why are people acting like this is another Great Betrayal by the Master Spelunker?

I really don't get it.

but is sure as hell is entertaining.

[Major Hogwash]

166. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

The Shadow do!

Hahahaha!!!!!

[allan01]

156. re:God damn it. How the hell do you get blindsided by your own f%$#@*g legislation??? View profile

every time from now on when i hear about this extrenious nonsense and the fake scandals . this is what it sounds like to me ( charlie browns teacher speaking. a quote from pres obamas radio address,

[allinthegame]

161. And we acted surpised

when the Republicans dig their heels and start wailing....this is a key indicator that the Democrats will give in.
Admit it, the Republicans fight for what they believe and we rarely do. No wonder we are in the mess we're in.

[Fumesucker]

174. Nah, the Democrats fight for what they believe in

It's just that they don't believe in the 99%.

[jazzimov]

167. Maybe because their crystal ball was on the fritz?

When dealing with private corporations, it's hard to tell what they will do. They are sneaky bastids.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

192. You mean smartest-man-in-the-room Obama and his Ivy League administration...

didn't know private corporations, especially health insurance companies, are sneaky bastards? Odd. DUers knew. Or at least some DUers.

[Whisp]

170. Scary Dumb 'Bama Coming For You...............

lol.
chill, will.
will will chill?
where is will?
will went

[pnwmom]

178. You're overlooking the fact that the Rethug party during

Obama's administration has been like no other party in history.

They are constantly willing to ignore their own best interests in the goal of destroying Obama's Presidency.

I don't blame the Dems in Congress or Obama for not realizing that so many governors would reject free Medicaid money -- that their taxpayers would have to pay for anyway. And in the face of the added pressure, built into the ACA, that their hospitals would no longer be getting the subsidies they're currently getting to help pay for the uninsured. And even though the law was written so that no one eligible for Medicaid could get a subsidized plan instead.

There was every logical reason to think the Republican governors would eventually fold, like the one in Arizona. Don't blame the Dems for not realizing how crazy the Rethugs have gotten. Hindsight is 20/20.

[AndyA]

180. Should have been public option.

Trouble starts when you decide to protect for profit big business.

[Whisp]

182. you still believe that crap, don't you?

that the President is the anti-Robin Hood.

Santa coming this year through the chimney again or or through those large gaps of logic you own?

[AndyA]

209. That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

I said nothing about the President in my post. I'll let you know when it's OK for you to speak on my behalf.

Hope you get up on the right side of the bed tomorrow.

[Whisp]

210. Excuse me, then. Maybe you can explain what you meant:

''Trouble starts when you decide to protect for profit big business.''

I took that as the regular:
Obama is protecting big money and big business and screwing everyone else.

[AndyA]

211. Well you took it wrong.

Congress was set on protecting the business interests of the big for profit insurance companies, which have been screwing people over for years. That's where the trouble started.

Personally, I think the insurance companies should have been told to take a hike, they've made plenty of money over the years deciding who gets covered and who doesn't--which for many was a death sentence.

Today, they're still the problem--cancelling policies and opening the door to all the Obama lied to us crap. More trouble than they're worth. I think health insurance companies need to go the way of pay phones.

[Whisp]

212. Well, sorry then. I did take it the wrong way.

[AndyA]

234. No problem

I try to be clear when I post, but sometimes I'll see something I wrote later and it isn't as clear as I thought it was.

[progressoid]

226. Well...

Whether deliberate or not, the health care industry is smiling all the way to the bank



Health care stocks have been hot since the passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2010, outperforming the broader market by a healthy margin.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/30/investing/health-care-stocks-obamacare/

[fadedrose]

194. Now, now William, calm down...

I can think of a lot of things that kept the President busy...

A bunch of shootings
A government shutdown
Iraq
Iran
Syria
Sandy Hook
Missouri Hurricanes
Other Hurricanes

And he has a style that a lot of us would have liked in an employer....Lets us do the job because we do our best work when the boss leaves....makes us nervous when he's here delegating (a pain in the ass) and we make nothing but mistakes...

But his crew wasn't normal like me and many others. They needed hands held and someone to consult about every decision. The President has too much faith in people, maybe the wrong people.

I wonder if there were people left over from other administrations working on the project who weren't quite so anxious for the project to be a success...I wonder about Walter Krenkle....I wonder about so much of this stuff...I wonder why Obama trusts Joe Biden because Joe "covers my back." What's going on in that WH anyway? Almost sounds like a coup d'etat.

[deaniac21]

197. Those Missouri hurricanes

can be devasting.

[fadedrose]

198. The hurricanes started somplace else, like the east coast, and blew a big bunch of wind

all the way over to Missouri and Kansas, and turned into Tornadoes.

It's rare when the east coast affects the middle of the country, but it could happen. Imagine the trail of distruction those hurricanes would leave.

I thought that I had written an interesting post, but the only thing that made it interesting was a bad weather report and you HAD to notice it. Nobody else read it.

[gulliver]

203. "Once less unto the breach, dear friends!"

Why does this remind me of the first debate in the last presidential election?

[kentuck]

204. Chalk up round one to the insurance companies...

They are as serious as a heart attack.

[brush]

208. Let's all relax. It'll get fixed.

They didn't think of everything. The policy cancellations are only happening to less than 5% of the population — some of those who buy insurance on the open market (and many of those policies are junk that don't really cover anything but the people don't know it because the haven't gotten sick or hurt and had to use them yet — the insurance companies just take their money every month (gobs of money) but don't come thru when needed).

Meanwhile the vast majority of the people who are covered by their employers are fine,

AND THE 40 MILLION WHO WERE UNINSURED BUT WANTED COVERAGE, CAN NOW GET AN AFFORDABLE POLICY ON THE OPEN MARKET, WHICH IS WHAT THE ACA WAS DESIGNED TO FIX . . . AND ALSO THE JUNK POLICIES MENTIONED ABOVE.

[Boomerproud]

216. I'm pissed too-call me shallow.

I know health care is a very complex thing, but the WH response to criticism (valid and invalid) has been beyond pathetic.

[Chuck Smythe]

217. Yes, they did indeed write it. The problem though, is that they did not READ it after they wrote it.

Maybe they had their eyes closed and just typed random keys on their keyboard.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

218. My question...

Is this intended to address "grandfathered" plans (because if it is, I don't understand at all). They're grandfathered, so there shouldn't be any need to do anything else -- it's the insurance company's call whether to cancel the plan or not.

OR

are they talking about plans that have been put into place SINCE the ACA was passed that are not compliant. These would not be subject to grandfathering.

[Chuck Smythe]

224. Neither.

It applies to the substandard, junk plans which did not meet the ACA's minimum requirements:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/for-consumers-whose-health-premiums-will-go-up-under-new-law-sticker-shock-leads-to-anger/2013/11/03/d858dd28-44a9-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story_1.html

"Beginning Jan. 1, the new plans must cover 10 essential benefits including pediatric care, prescription drugs, mental-health services and maternity care. In general, policies that don’t offer those can’t be sold after 2013."

[KG]

219. ACA - a bad idea poorly executed.

[tsuki]

220. You get blindsided when the Teabagging Press start yelping to satisfy their corporate masters.

I am 66 years old and I have never seen a media feeding fest like the ObamaCare roll out.

[BootinUp]

221. Who is they? The sausage makers?

I think you expect too much when the legislative challenges were as great as in this case.

[grahamhgreen]

223. Because the insurance companies wrote it?

[Mr Dixon]

227. Really? SMH

How about you just keep your crappy insurance, and cry about that? you sound just like the GOP.

[Recursion]

230. Saying "insurance companies wrote it" (or like it) is like saying "politicians" did

The insurance industry is not one monolithic force pushing for or against ACA; there are factions that did well and factions whose ox got gored.

[pintobean]

233. What's the point?

Your flash in the pan comment will disappear in a few minutes. Waste of time.

[mwrguy]

244. They had to pass it

in order to find out what was in it.

[WillyT]

249. I Work For EDD In California... Don't I Know It Brother...