= new reply since forum marked as read
let's wait till we're all decimated to make up our minds, cause at this point we know nothing about it!
That's the ticket, because all prior free trade agreements have booming positive effect on our economy and US workers !
http://americablog.com/2013/11/bill-moyers-trans-pacific-partnership-free-trade-agreement-death-democracy.html
-p
which obviously preemptively frames the opposing argument and the person who would make it in a disrespectful and demeaning way before any discussion has even begun.
I still think "hair on fire" would be a suitable counter-insult for "apologist" -- if the goal is to hurl insults
Even though I've grown accustomed to it, it still galls me to see this kind of talk. I'm used to it from the right ("Sheeple!"
but I groan when I see it coming from the left.
I agree with your arguments. I'm very skeptical of the TPP. The secrecy is disturbing. Trade with the Pacific Rim countries is an existing fact. A framework doesn't necessarily make it any better or worse. Deep within my compromising soul there lies an anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, fire-breathing environmental radical. More trade with distant countries easily means more pervasive and rapid environmental destruction of the earth's living systems. It means that the capitalist, "civilized" paradigm becomes more entrenched in other parts of the world. It means that US hegemony and "national interest" grows to encompass more of the planet.
It's probably a f%$king horrible agreement. But I agree with your argument that we don't know that for sure, and certainly no specifics have been given by the TPP opponents here.
demonstrates that although many of the proposals are good, nothing has been decided."
Well said. 
After all... if President Obama supports it... it must be right.
Right?
however, if you go to the thread where that was hidden, pro, youu'll find poster after poster appalled that it was hidden, who quite clearly see what's being attempted, pro.
And that someone alerted on this thread, pro, is truly laughable. Didn't work. soooo sorry, pro.
make that double pro.
"if you go to the thread where that was hidden, pro, youu'll find poster after poster appalled that it was hidden, who quite clearly see what's being attempted, pro."
You think that those attempts to intimidate the jurors validates the post?
You have pre condemned it all, so we know that any individual issue that comes out, we know where you will stand.
You have also it seems tried to set yourself up as expert.
I know little to nothing about it. Nothing you've said gives me any ammunition to argue against it anywhere. Just saying "inform yourself" does not win votes or support. I remain neutral. Not everyone has time to do the hours of reading it would take to make an informed opinion. Those who set themselves up at experts need to persuade, not brag and direct those they want support from to obtain a degree in the subject. This is how the "corporatists" win out, but you're doing nothing different and not likely to overcome them with arguments they are the evil and anything they want must be bad. In fact that is now always true. They need us for customers and need us to be employed in order to buy their stuff.
The other countries involved, are they also getting screwed over too? Maybe they want access to the huge US market and see that as a good thing. (This is an observation for more to think about, not a "defense of the TPP" which for all I know, could be bad or good for us, but I don't presume our elected representatives and their appointed assistants are really all out to screw us over in favor of "the corporations."
