Why I'm pissed, and why you should be, too.

[WilliamPitt]

For the record, I hope the Affordable Care Act survives and succeeds. I hope President Obama pulls these irons out of the fire and hammers them into shape. I know he and his administration are struggling to enact long-term solutions to a complicated situation in the age of the 24-hour bullshit machine that is the modern "news" cycle, and I deeply and fully appreciate the difficulty of the task.

But I'm pissed, and rightfully so, and I will tell you why.

I believe that government - federal, state and local - can and far more often than not does work for the benefit of the people. If you drive on roads, have your trash collected, eat food that isn't poisoned, drink water that isn't black, breathe air that isn't blue, get a response from fire or health professionals when you cry for help, if you go to court and win, if the snow gets cleared off your street after a blizzard, if your community is rebuilt after a natural disaster, and every single time someone stops for a red light to let you pass, you can thank a government.

For several decades now, the Republican Party has been actively working to destroy government. Not this government or that government: government, period. "Government is the problem," said Saint Reagan, and ever since that proclamation, the mission of the GOP has been to get government gigs in order to wreck the joint from the inside. Their talking points always hew close to this theme, never more so than in the last several years.

The ACA rollout debacle, therefore, is more than just a messed-up website and a political problem with cancelled policies. It is a bright, shining demonstration of governmental ineptitude, wrapped in a bow and delivered into the hands of those who seek to destroy rather than create. Is that right? Is that fair? Of course not. But the Obama administration's astonishing bungle of the rollout of their own hood-ornament policy has given the wreckers an early Christmas present: "See? Government doesn't work."

For those of us who believe in government and the good it can do, it is a setback of galling proportions.

[lame54]

1. So it's all them...

with no cyber-destruction from the right?

[WilliamPitt]

3. "cyber-destruction" bungled the cancelled-policies issue, I take it?

Remarkable power, that.

[lame54]

4. Or...

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/52649

...First, it is important to note that the ACA grand-fathered all the individual policies that were in place at the time the law was enacted. This means that the plans in effect at the time that President Obama was pushing the bill could still be offered even if they did not meet all the standards laid out in the ACA.

The plans being terminated because they don't meet the minimal standards were all plans that insurers introduced after the passage of the ACA. Insurers introduced these plans knowing that they would not meet the standards that would come into effect in 2014. Insurers may not have informed their clients at the time they sold these plans that they would not be available after 2014 because they had designed a plan that did not comply with the ACA.

However if the insurers didn't tell their clients that the new plans would only be available for a short period of time, the blame would seem to rest with the insurance companies, not the ACA. After all, President Obama did not promise people that he would keep insurers from developing new plans that will not comply with the provisions of the ACA...

[Jesus Malverde]

69. Whats interesting in the arguments that the insurance companies are to blame, corrupt and greedy.

Is that they are the partners the Federal government chose to go into business with.

Everyone knew they were corrupt, profit driven, and parasitic.

How shocking when they act like their nature.

Insurance companies are for profit businesses. That they would abuse a now captive consumer population should solicit a big DUH!

[WowSeriously]

77. Bingo!

[AndyA]

82. ^^This^^ n/t

[Ace Acme]

90. Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

[2banon]

104. ^^^THIS^^^^^

[SammyWinstonJack]

120. heh.

[MisterP]

121. well, how else would they depict any opposition to the AIA act as "playing into Big Insurance's

hands"?

[Jesus Malverde]

167. The dissonance is strong with this issue..

Heritage Foundation, private insurance, outsourced marketplace...

The saddest part in all the pixels we're typesetting... at no point have we actually gotten to the business of health care.

The actual delivery of health care, has taken a back seat to endless concern about health insurance. The role of the state, the duty of it's consumers, satiating the insatiable insurance middleman.

[Uncle Joe]

130. Precisely, Jesus Malverde, the for profit "health" insurance corpse are the scorpions

trying to cross the creek.

There is no upside to helping or institusionalizing them.

[Jesus Malverde]

166. I like your analogy.

Thanks for pointing out the blindingly obvious. I missed the fact that this very much institutionalizes the private health insurance system.

Too big to fail as it were.

Peace

[liberal_at_heart]

131. +1000000

[Enthusiast]

174. I must agree.

Why should a parasitic industry that does little more than collect a cut of free money voluntarily surrender their largess?

[rlegro]

124. Absolutely right. Therefore....

The real failure wasn't Obama's statement, it was his administration's failure to see this insurance industry stunt developing and yet fail to flag it and chastise the insurers in a very public manner. He could have innoculated himself right then and there.

[Cryptoad]

68. I am glad the Obama Haters are getting tuned up

at a time when their support is dearly needed rather than their condemnation!

[WowSeriously]

79. Policy hater does not equal Obama hater. Sorry.

[lark]

92. Obama admin. chose the website designer/administration company.

They chose a company that contributed a LOT of $$ to Romney and Repugs. up and down the ladder. Why would they do that and not get the best Democratic leaning company available? Why did Obama leave in place all the Bush embeds to wreck his administration and signature win?

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. 16 companies were eligible to bid....4 did....CGI won the contract.

[onlyadream]

179. Good question

The decision should have been made by taking into consideration motives. Was this debacle done maliciously? Or was it just ineptitude? I could also go all conspiracy theory and suggest that under the table, Koch supplied money was given to CGI. We just don't know. The moment Obama got elected he had desperate enemies, so anything is possible.

[ProSense]

2. This is

"For those of us who believe in government and the good it can do, it is a setback of galling proportions."

...absurd hyperbole.

[B2G]

8. Actually, it's spot on.

This screwed up series of events is affecting people on a deeply personal level. It's not some theoretical argument being had in Congress that people are apt to ignore. They CAN'T ignore it.

And they're not likely to forget it anytime soon.

[ProSense]

10. No

this is "spot on": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024037863

[B2G]

17. Then why is Obama proposing the one year extension of them

AT THIS LATE DATE?

It smacks of desperation. And it's most likely not even doable.

[ProSense]

19. You asked a question that is completely debunked by Senator Sanders.

The goal is to debunk RW spin, not to perpetuate it.

[B2G]

25. It's not a viable solution to this political problem

I assert it will make it worse.

[ProSense]

27. No it will not, and that's why the insurers are pissed.

They were put in the spotlight as predators.

The site is working and people are waking up to the fact that they can go to the exchanges if their plan is canceled.

[Demo_Chris]

91. Only to the ignorant...

The insurance companies will continue to claim that these canceled policies are the results of changes brought about by the ACA. This will not change. If anything, this delay proves their point. Obama is announcing a delay in the provisions of the ACA that forced them to cancel and now they don't have to.

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. BUT they do have to tell the customer the truth...

that it DOESN'T conform to the standards set out in the ACA...AND that they might find those for less money on the Marketplace..


this is another win not a loss.

[Demo_Chris]

117. Depends on how you define a win, right?

The issue here, the reason this is even an issue at all, is that President Obama spent the election deliberately deceiving the American people. Not once, or twice, but over and over and over again.

Obviously HE thought this was important or he wouldn't have made this lie a cornerstone of his reelection campaign. So not only did we lie, we lied about something that matters to a whole bunch of people. And now, here we are, years after the fact, trying to correct this lie and make good on the promise.

I hardly see how we can call this a win.

[VanillaRhapsody]

122. "deceiving the American People" my butt!

it only effects 5% of Americans. It's that the Individual Market is going away...there was no lie..

You don't see this as a win....and you wouldn't have no matter what happened.

You may not know about this:

?1384445198

[Demo_Chris]

133. So your arguement is that a deception should only matter....

To those directly impacted by that lie? Really?

That's as silly as claiming that President Bush only really lied about Iraq to that fraction of a percent tasked with fighting it, and the rest of us have no cause for complaint. But again, that's silly. Bush didn't just lie to the soldiers, he lied to the American people. Hell, he lied to the entire freaking world.

When President Obama opened his mouth and said something that he knew was not true, he was deliberately deceiving everyone. He was LYING. He didn't do it once, he did it over and over and over again. But because he is our guy we want to pretend it never happened or make excuses as to why we shouldn't care.

We should care, it's our job as adults and voters to care, and I bloody well hope I don't need to explain to you why integrity matters.

[VanillaRhapsody]

140. No my argument is that he didn't lie...

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/15/no_obama_didnt_lie_to_you_about_your_health_care_plan_partner/

Or are you going to claim you know more than:
"Dean Baker...co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, D.C. "

And for good measure...WHY your supposed stance about it being a lie....here is a guy that is one of those who is the exception to the rule kinda guys....and why supporting the "it's a lie" meme on a Democratic forum after reading this kind of speaks about motive...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/an-obamacare-loser-speaks-out


You can be a hater all you want....It's YOUR integrity that's in question now...

[Demo_Chris]

154. My integrity? Enjoy your "unscewed polls"...

In the real world you do not get to rewrite history or reinvent the definition of words to suit the needs of the moment. Words mean things.

Definition of LIE

intransitive verb

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2: to create a false or misleading impression
President Obama repeatedly made promises to the American people that he KNEW misrepresented reality. Below is a sample:

You are perfectly free to PREDEND that all of this never occured, but don't expect me to join you in this fantasy. And don't even suggest that believing in some screwy alternative reality is a prerequisite to being a Democrat or member here. Obama said what he said... Period.

[Demo_Chris]

159. A lie is a lie. In any case, I haven't a clue what you are on about...

And I don't really care. If we cannot even agree on self-evident reality than further discussion is pointless.

[busterbrown]

162. "What I’m on “ is reality..

Just want to know what you you were doing a few years before your link or tube..

You must have been very busy destroying the Bush Administration with all their lies.. Correct?
Or did you feel that a misstatement on a fundamental policy issue conflates with all the Bush Administration lies.
Over 4,000 dead U.S. soldiers and up to 500,000 Iraqi civilians also dead..

You must have been busy covering all those lies especially being the right kind of democrat you are..

[busterbrown]

143. Huh?

You think he is that dumb that he would lie? Everyone knows that lies catch up with you..Except perhaps you..

Lets see: “Deceiving, lie, lied, lie” Sure you’re not making some holiday cash around here..

He might have miscalculated..but deliberately deceive and lie...Go away please..

[Demo_Chris]

153. Words mean things...

Definition of LIE

intransitive verb

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2: to create a false or misleading impression

[busterbrown]

155. So how much are they paying you again?

How about another Obama Lie... You know if you can lie just once it just will continue. So you must have more examples...

[onlyadream]

178. Obama was saying what he thought was true

He is smart enough to know that whatever he says will be held to a blistering fire. This makes me wonder who his advisers are and why they aren't thorough or honest.

[blue14u]

149. Hold on Demo_Chris.. you say....

"issue here, the reason this is even an issue at all, is that President Obama spent the election deliberately deceiving the American people. Not once, or twice, but over and over and over again.

Obviously HE thought this was important or he wouldn't have made this lie a cornerstone of his reelection campaign. So not only did we lie, we lied about something that matters to a whole bunch of people. And now, here we are, years after the fact, trying to correct this lie and make good on the promise." quote


So you feel our President "deliberately" set out to" deceive" us? HE went out and lied over and over again? You must be on the wrong website..

Our President did nothing of the kind "deliberately"..
He spoke from what HE was being told!

Yeah, he decided to wake up one day and lie, lie, lie, saying he wanted to help, all the while KNOWING he was going to stick it to us!!! Really??

Unbelievable that no one alerted on you!!

[Demo_Chris]

158. Alert for what? Obama said what he said...

I don't actually consider this that big of a lie. I know why he told it -- you might even say that he was forced to lie to counter an even BIGGER Republican lie, and that would be arguably true. You might also say that he was simplifying a somewhat complex issue for the sake of a good soundbite, and that would also be true.

Where I take offense is this "let's pretend" nonsense. It really bothers me because we are better than that. More, it's dangerous, seductive, and addictive as hell. That's exactly the cognitive dissonance / conformational bias trap that the Fox News / Dittohead contingent of the GOP has locked themselves into.

When you find yourself ignoring or trying to explain away reality because it doesn't fit some binary good guy / bad guy world view, you're already gone. You've lost the freaking plot. We aren't posting here at the Barrack Obama Fanclub, we are posting here to discuss Democratic ideals and how best to advance our movement and agenda. We won't accomplish that by trying to BS each other or ourselves.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. You'll get over it...

[Demo_Chris]

163. We all will my friend. :)

[blue14u]

161. I don't consider DU a fan club

for Obama. If it were I may not be a member...

"deliberate deception", no I don't think so. I call it wanting to win, as I wanted him to,

and spin. That's it... Spin!

This is not the catastrophe it's being made out to be by the RW..

For me, the shutdown needs to be put in the face of the right, left,
and center every day. That is what we need to focus on. Not a website.

If we focus on the shutdown , as we just took VA, we will take 2014. Hands down..

The ACA website problems will be a non issue.

[Demo_Chris]

164. We better win in 2014. I think...

I think the reality of the ACA will be clear long before then. If it's even close to as good a deal as some believe we are gonna clean up. And President Obama can really help or hurt us. If he comes out with some kind of strong proposals, something that will inspire people to turn out and vote, it could be a significant victory. But we need something other than "We're like the GOP but with less Bibles" to inspire people.

On the other hand, assuming the ACA is going great guns, what does the GOP have going for it? Just this..

The GOP has a fantastic track record of getting out the vote in these midterm elections by stacking the state ballots with social conservative bullshit. This is where they run out the anti-women, anti-abortion, anti-gay ballot initiatives. They know that these are the kinds of things that really inspire their older "christian values" voters to turn out. More, everyone, including these social cons, knows that this is their only opportunity to win on these issues. And other than listening to Rush, what else do they have to do?

[blue14u]

168. I'm like you.. the GOP died

during the shutdown and they don't have anything to offer but the same old

song and dance. Approval being around 12 %. They can't recover from that by 2014 with what they offer which is anti everything good and helpful..

I just have a feeling that 2014, even though a mid-term, will

see record turnout for the Democrats. Even the RW is sick of their party. We

already have some great races to win too. Allison Grimes, Wendy Davis, and

Crist in Fl... not to mention, I just believe people are paying more attention, and

want the GOP gone. Tea baggers for sure must go as much as possible.

I am very hopeful and have a very good feeling about 2014, which is where

I am focused.. 2016 will come, first we must win 2014 and turn more states blue.

We did it in VA, and we saw what we can do if we get out the vote. No sitting out this time!

We owe our Democrats that much for getting off the couch and getting us win's in

many state's a couple of weeks ago.

I vote, vote, VOTE!!! Always, everytime... VOTE!

[global1]

23. He Did It To Appease The Nervous Dems That Were Threatening To Jump Ship.....nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. What he proposed is that insurance companies can decide to extend...

but they have to be honest and tell you that you will get less than what you would under an ACA approved plan...that is all.

[ReRe]

134. Why?

Because NOBODY CAN STAND A BUNCH OF SCREAMING BABIES! Their loud mouths won the effing day.

[cyberswede]

115. Bernie's great, but people have the right to be "galled" about the clumsy roll-out, etc.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

21. Agreed.

[progressoid]

41. And

the "issues" with ACA are just the thing the GOP will use against us.

Yes, there will be hyperbole, but it will be used by the GOP. They love to use it and a good portion of America love to hear it. We're giving them what they need to make their point.

[littlewolf]

123. I have already heard this is President Obama's

"Read my lips" statement.
the GOP is going to really go with this.

[Brigid]

59. I have come to believe . . .

That those who believe that the government couldn't run a two-car funeral are right.

[Demo_Chris]

88. We have already heard right wingers saying exactly that. nt

[uponit7771]

99. +1

[BumRushDaShow]

5. Liberals and Progressives refuse to buy megaphones

in the form of media outlets (bundles of radio stations and low power TV stations) running canned progressive programming 24/7(even if doing so at a loss like much of the RW media experiences) so that the hyperbolic RW messaging that has infested the airwaves and DU, can be neutered.

[Sheri]

7. where are our liberal billionnaires?

i want to see a 24/7 news outlet spewing liberal propaganda to compete with faux news. where is it?

[rhett o rick]

33. If there are any liberal billionaires, they are only socially liberal

and not fiscally liberal.

[Sheri]

39. i thought Soros was fiscally liberal too.

but nobody has taken the lead on this, except Al Gore, but his project didn't do very well.

[rhett o rick]

50. Well he certainly wasnt when he made his wealth. But he may be better today.

My point is that conservative billionaires spend 100s of billions pushing their ideologies. How many liberal billionaires spend any money pushing a liberal agenda?

[Sheri]

61. not enough of them. on that we agree. nt

[grasswire]

81. factoid: liberals spend their money on causes

conservatives spend theirs on spreading ideology.

Sierra Club
Greenpeace

etc.

v.

Heritage Foundation
PACs

etc.

[rhett o rick]

86. A tax deductible donation to Greenpeace isnt equivalent to owning a TV Network. nm

[tavalon]

171. He's a saint these days

and a devil in the ass of the Repugs.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. Exactly

The RW media packages one or two lineups of 2nd and 3rd tier talking point-spouting zombies and runs these (in syndication and on satellite radio) across all of their stations - many of which are located in small media markets. But this provides a certain level of saturation across the country and consistency of messaging.

What's left of Al Franken's Air America is just about completely wiped out because we didn't own the stations the programming was running on.

[Sheri]

44. they control the cable too.

media conglomeration has done great damage to liberal interests. i voted for BC twice, but i will not forgive him for the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. And ironically, Comcast's Web Mail was out for 8 hours on Wednesday

yet nary a peep out of the fake tech "gurus".

[tavalon]

170. George Soros

Soros is the only one that comes to mind and he gives very generously. He might well have a hand in Current TV but that dog doesn't seem to want to hunt.

Some portions of MSNBC are definitely ours, except they don't disseminate propaganda, they use this weird Democratically skewed thing called truth.

[valerief]

181. I think liberal billionaire is an oxymoron. nt

[Sheri]

6. it is a setback.

but it's just a website problem, mainly. we're used to that. microsoft never delivers a product that works right when it first comes out.

[B2G]

9. It's more than a website problem

Did you take a break from the news yesterday?

[Sheri]

13. did i miss something?

yeah, i haven't been paying attention to the news for a week or so.

[B2G]

20. Google Obama's press conference and have a look

He caved into keeping the 'junk policies' for another year as a fix for all of the cancelled policies.

God only knows what this will do the the price of policies in the exchange...it if can even be done at this point.

[Sheri]

24. kk

thanks for the heads up.

[rhett o rick]

34. How many people will keep their junk policies and how big an impact will they

have on the exchange prices. Personally I dont think it will have much effect.

[Sheri]

40. why would people want to keep useless insurance, anyway? nt

[rhett o rick]

45. I dont think they will. I think after the bluster of "I want to be able to keep my existing policy.

blows over, I think you will find lots of these people deciding to switch. But it will be their decision. And if they hold out for a year, I dont see much impact on the 40 million already in the system. I am not sure about the 40 million, if anyone knows a better number of people covered by the ACA, please help me out.

[Sheri]

51. i don't see why not.

i can't give you any figures, but i've been offered useless-high-deductible high-copay-insurance, and i wouldn't buy it. at least the ACA sets a minimum floor for health insurance so people can't get ripped off as easily.

[Ace Acme]

52. Because they don't know it's useless. Very likely the salesmen lied to them. nt

[Sheri]

78. possible.

if they're not planning to use it, why care? but if they do have to use it, ACA makes sure that it's worth something. that's better, in my book.

[JHB]

57. Because that's what they had and were told they would be able to keep it

Maybe they don't realize it's junk, maybe they believe all the "ZOMG! Obamacare! Socialist hellhole!" noise and haven't done any comparison shopping yet.

It's one thing if a few months from now word gets around about people finding better rates on the exchanges (without necessarily knowing that it's the dreaded Obamacare), more people look into it and find "Geez, the plan I have now is useless compared to these" and decides to switch. It's another if they get dumped off en masse and find themselves forced into a situation they were told they would not face.

[Sheri]

74. they should comparison shop.

they may echo right-wing noise, but i bet they get more bang for their buck from the exchange.

[christx30]

70. There are people out there

that don't want to pay for something they, themselves, will not use. I have amazing insurance that I've been paying premiums on since 1/1/13. I'm young-ish (turned 38 on Wednesday), I'm healthy. I eat well. I bike 5 miles 3 days per week, and 14 miles 1 day per week. I haven't seen the doctor one time this year. I'd liked to have been able to spend that money on other things. I don't need maternity care, or drug/alcohol treatment or any number of coverages that I've been paying for. (And it's not like taxes. You're paying a private company for services. You're not giving money to the government to build roads and police protection.) I would have loved to have a policy that was for catastrophic care only. However, it wasn't offered at my work, so I couldn't get it. It would have been cheaper for me. I suspect there are many people like me that are wanting to keep these policies.
Extra stuff that you don't want and need costs money that could be better spent on other things.

[Sheri]

76. i went without insurance for a few years.

i know what you're saying, but i think these people who have to buy insurance now under the ACA will get a better bargain from the exchange.

[christx30]

113. I was without insurance from

the time I was laid off from Dell in 2008 until I started at my current employer in 2012. Even had gall stones during that time. It, amazingly got "surgery worthy" 45 minutes after my insurance kicked in.
And I get what you're saying. ACA does look like a bargin IF you're going to use it. If you're like me, it seems like wasted money.
And I don't really like the "You take what we give you, and like it" additude that many people have. Yes an ACA play might be better than an individual plan. But people like what they like. And I think the person who is paying the money should get what they want. Not what someone else wants them to have.

[onlyadream]

180. I was one of these people

I told my story here on DU. Fortunately my family will be covered by a company policy come the new year, however, the ACA really wasn't what I thought it would be.

I had a junk policy that I wouldn't describe as junk. It was affordable to us, especially since we had a recent layoff. The policy was hospital and well visits for $425 a month (mental health was also included). Zero deductible and zero copay. The lowest ACA exchange premium was over $800 a month, $6000 deductible, 50% copay. When I did originally post my story, I did include a screen shot since I wasn't believed. So, basically my premiums doubled for what amounted to catastrophic insurance with a lot of out of pocket cost.
If I wanted real insurance, with doable deductibles and copays, I would have paid $1700 a month. Since this is more than 8% of what we make, then we could be exempt (from my understanding) but then we have no insurance, which is not an option.

The thing is, how much is too much (when it comes to premiums)? $1700 a month? Does anyone think that is reasonable? Also, the people who are experiencing this are shocked. There was no heads up on this and all of a sudden you have to pay what would amount to one or two luxury car payments a month. Who can suddenly do that without a some kind of planning? I believe those who are self employed fall steeply into this category and they aren't happy about it.

I do think the ACA is a step in the right direction, but we need a government option to make the market more competitive. Of course Medicare for all would be best, and hopefully it'll happen one day.

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. Yes you can...you just cannot get the subsidy...

[BumRushDaShow]

48. He took away talking points

exposed the House amendment as basically another ACA gutting attempt, made the Senate bill irrelevent, and threw the debacle back to the true party at fault - the insurers. And this whole issue is not touching the vast majority of folks.

But we do know that he appointed Larry Summers, bombed Syria, kept the war going in Iraq, kept the Bush tax cuts intact, and lost the election to Mitt Romney due to a Diebold steal because that's what DU told us would happen. Right?

[VanillaRhapsody]

106. NO he didn't....now the insurance companies have to tell the truth...

if you keep this policy...you get LESS than the ACA standards....you can go to the marketplace to find those that are. Period...

[rusty fender]

11. I totally agree with you

The Admin. should have had trial rollouts after trial rollouts in order to make sure it was near-perfect; now we just have to shovel a bigger pile off of the ACA. It will get better, though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. That is not how the Federal govt does things...sorry. They are NOT like private companies...

the bidding process is daunting and why most private companies do not engage in it.

[russspeakeasy]

12. "astonishing bungle" is too kind.

In the long term, I think we will be OK.
But during the next 6 months, we will have to endure a shit storm because "somebodies" were to "afraid", "incompetent" to tell their President that they were failing and at their assignments.
The best President of my 74 years is being pissed on by the press, because of the incompetence , deliberate, or otherwise of a damn website.

[n2doc]

14. I think it is a sign of things to come

It has become clear that much, if not most, of the issues dealing with cancelled policies are due to the deliberate malfeasance of the Insurance companies. They have already been hit with fines (too small, in my opinion) for deliberately spreading misinformation. They are also using this as an opportunity to try and trick people into signing up for overpriced policies and blaming the price on the ACA.

I think people generally think of private industry as benign. Of course, those who are paying attention not how false that is. We are seeing the deliberate sabotage of the ACA by an industry that fought tooth and nail to be a big part of it.

In the future, wise lawmakers, should they exist, will have to count on dirty tricks by anyone who has to be relied upon to make a law function. The only real answer is to put in place heavy fines and jail time for execs who don't play fair.

[fredamae]

15. If all we had to

cope with re: ACA Rollout were the "normal" setbacks/glitches and other minor delays - there would be no debate here...

But the GOP has done every sneaky, back handed, ratty thing they could/can do to make Sure they could "build" a foundation of Mis-trust -Negativity in order to Prove "government is evil".
The GOP are the ones who have demonstrated how government Can fail the people if/when a concerted effort is made to Make it Not work.

[G_j]

16. things started going awry when single payer

was not allowed at the table, or even in the room.
Don't know who thought this was wise, but Obama sure gets some terrible advice from those around him.

[TransitJohn]

29. Fucking Max Baucus

[Enthusiast]

175. Exactly............nt

[bigtree]

18. but to give the noise any credence is to pretend Obama invented clunky government programs

. . . or to pretend that other roll-outs of medical or other public initiatives have been spotless - like Medicare Part D which also had a glitchy roll-out.

This is a lot of noise over nothing, and I'm not going to give grousers and opportunists the satisfaction of coddling them as the President so graciously did yesterday.

It's enough trouble as it is to sort through the actual problems with ACA, implementation and other difficulties, without conflating it with whatever else you might believe is wrong with government.

So, Obama didn't fix bureaucracy - his tech folks aren't masters of computer science. How about sticking to the point? ACA isn't the disaster that's been portrayed by a determined bunch of opponents in the press and elsewhere; certainly, a glitchy (and under-repair) website is far preferable to the thousands and thousands who died or were at risk before ACA was available.

You talked yesterday about the detrimental effect of focusing on one election over another. I don't think giving any credence at all to the demagogues who have hyped this 'fix; which affects less than 5% of Americans is smart or necessary.

[OKNancy]

22. Interesting. I just did an online chat from the healthcare.gov site

My family situation is a little more complex than most so I wanted some guidance.
I got on right away and got my questions answered.

I was actually going to start a thread about it, but saw this post and decided to write here: I think things are getting better.

( totally off topic about government working, but hopefully 6 months from now all this other garbage will pass)

[cali]

26. I think you're placing too much blame on the Administration and not enough

on all the states that refused to engage with their own websites.

[bigtree]

31. shocker

The National Memo ?@NationalMemo 3h

SHOCKER: Obamacare Is Working Best In States That Aren’t Trying To Sabotage It http://fb.me/6z7725wFv

[lark]

97. SCOTUS decision on Medicaid

and the red states refusal to expand the program are what's caused MUCH of the problem. 5,000,000 people that were expected to be on Medicaid are now dumped on the exchanges and exchanges weren't set up to subsidize incomes that low. So, way more volume than anticipated due to bad Repug. governors and their legislatures, along with a website company that is totally right wing to begin with and you have a recipe for big problems. Bad choices by Repugs + bad choices by Dem government = problems. These are resolvable problems and think Obama just made them worse. I'm worried about what happens next?

[fadedrose]

119. cali

you can be so sweet sometimes....or is somebody else using your computer...

[cali]

126. lol. nothing sweet about it. I care about facts- land where they may.

[Raffi Ella]

28. It truly is.

This is more than politics, much more, this is not a game to us. It's as if Democrats just don't even really care. I mean I know they do, I know the President cares but just caring is not enough: We needed Action. They needed to walk the walk and they sat down instead.

I realize this is worse than it has to be because repuke traitors are doing everything they can to make it so but still; Democrats, if they truly cared, would have done more to make this right from the beginning.

There's really no excuse for this. none.

[factsarenotfair]

30. It's like they are fighting off a piranha attack with marshmallow guns. :(

Piranhas on steroids and mini-marshmallows.

[badtoworse]

32. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.

ACA's first impression could hardly be worse. You are spot on, Will.

[Surya Gayatri]

35. Well, looks like I'll be obliged to bump my "mad-as-hell" meter up a few millimeters,

since thou hath ordained it, O sage one.

(if necessary)

"galling proportions", seriesly !11!!1!?

[llmart]

132. I couldn't agree more......

I am absolutely "galled" at how atrocious this whole website rollout, etc. is. My word. I might just as well get a rope and hang myself now.

I'll forego the sarcasm thingy and just say, this is a first world problem.

Will - when you get a little older and garner the wisdom that occasionally comes from maturity and living longer, you'll look back on this and say to yourself, "Geez, I really got worked up over things that don't matter any longer."

My favorite line to myself to keep me grounded is "Will it really matter that much in the greater scheme of my life?" Usually the answer is no.

[tblue37]

150. That would be "Thou hast," which is archaic second person singular

(familiar). "Hath" is third person singular.

(Just a useless little factoid from your local useless factoid repository.)

ON EDIT: I used to go nuts listening to the erroneous use of "thee" on Spock's home planet of Vulcan during the Pon F'ar (sp?) mating ritual episodes.

"Thou" is the nominative case (used for the subject), while "thee" is for objects. But the Vulcans always used "thee" as the subject--and then used the third person singular (and sometimes even third person plural) verb with it! Thus, instead of saying, "Thou art," or "Art thou?" they would say, "Thee is," or "Are thee?"

That would be like saying, "Him is," or "Are him?"

I will go away now.

[boomersense]

36. Yes, and the fixes will only obfuscate the initial intentions

of ACA. The setback may well extend beyond health care and into the next election. Did we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

[moondust]

37. This is not just about "government."

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2013, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)

This is about "government interfacing with a lot of private insurance companies, some of whom may be part of 'the resistance' and uncooperative at best."

We don't know how many moles or foot draggers or saboteurs or whatever have been working down in the bowels of this thing to cause problems and delays along the way. Perhaps there has been organized resistance funded by the Kochs? Did somebody bribe the chief of development who has apparently now resigned to enter the private sector?

Of course the public may not get it as long as the corporate media keep hammering it.

Did you know: Microsoft Windows crashed regularly for YEARS after it was first introduced? And the guy behind it all is now the wealthiest person in the country?

[Fumesucker]

42. It didn't have to be so complex

That was one of the criticisms aimed at the bill as it was being debated both in Congress and here on the DU, it simply was too complex to be anything remotely resembling a smooth operation.

[moondust]

62. Indeed.

It would have been much simpler to start from scratch and build a single-payer system or just adapt the already working system of a private insurance company since the government would end up as the only remaining insurance company for everybody. But that never would have made it through Congress.

As the guy from MIT who was instrumental in bringing up Romneycare puts it, the ACA was the "least disruptive to the old system." That's the best the corporatized, plutocratic Congress could do, and then just barely.

[jeff47]

71. It did in order to pass.

Medicare-for-all is absurdly simple. All you have to do is change eligibility age to 0.

You know what Congress wouldn't pass? Medicare-for-all. Lieberman and friends would not allow it.

So for now, we have an over-complicated system. But it sets us up for a much better future - the battle for single-payer is now in the Blue states. It'll be a much easier fight there.

[Fumesucker]

73. Former Democratic Vice Presidental candidate Joseph Lieberman?

Let me just say "Fuck Nader".

[moondust]

111. +1

[bvar22]

43. They SHOULD have gotten the rollout right.

They had the time, money and people to make this run smoothly.
The excuses for the failure of this website...the official unveiling of the ACA....
are beyond pathetic.

Somewhere, Somebody who is making the Big Bucks is responsible.
HEADS SHOULD BE ROLLING.
Instead of apologizing to Republicans, the "somebody(s)" should be falling on their swords or publicly "dismissed". Rewarding incompetence only breeds more incompetence.

$328MILLION/ 3 YEARS, and counting for a website that doesn't work,
OUTSOURCED to a CANADIAN Tech Firm whose only claim to fame was that it was fired for fucking up Canada's health care site..... what could go wrong?
Has anybody in the Obama Administration heard the pleas for Buying American
or that JOBS is the TOP PRIORITY?
...especially when spending OUR money?


And the Website is the EASY part.
The HARD part will come in 2014 when sick & injured people start trying to access Health Care with their new policies. I PRAY somewhere in the Democratic Party someone was smart enough to provide for a smooth functioning, American Staffed Customer Service department to:

*help people access their Health CARE with their new Health Insurance

*explain WHY people STILL have to pay when seeing a doctor

*take complaints

*advocate FOR the People when they feel the Insurance Companies have treated them unfairly

*Most Importantly,
I PRAY that there is a wickedly fast Oversight Agency that can quickly ENFORCE the new Regulations , including an army of accountants watching the Insurance Corps BOOKS with a microscope to enforce the new Medical Cost ratios.

Everybody knows that regulation without enforcement and penalties is no regulation at all.
(SEE: Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform)

"Oh. That is ALL up to the individual states" will not be an acceptable excuse for the American People.
If the rest of the ACA implementation goes anything like the Website,
then we are headed for some dark times.


They could have, and SHOULD have gotten the Website RIGHT.
This is a bad omen,
and there is no acceptable excuse for this failure.

Will is right.
The Democratic party is the Party of Government Works,
and HealthCare.Gov is a glaring black eye for the "Government Works" Party.

DURec.
---bvar22

[BuelahWitch]

72. Doing taxes next year will be a bundle of joy as well

If they are tying healthcare to the IRS. Wonder if it will delay refunds?

[Proud Public Servant]

46. Yes, exactly, but that's not all

Here's the thing that gall's me about all this. We tend to lump all conservative criticism of the president together, but one of the things I've noticed is that the criticism from intelligent conservatives is different than that from teabagger morons. Teabaggers really believe the president is a socialist, a facist, a terrorist sympathizer, and a Kenyan. For that reason, they are easily dismissed.

But more intelligent conservatives -- and here I speak both of some pundits and the conservatives I know in real life -- don't bother with any of that. They zero in on one criticism, over and over: the president is incompetent. And this farce of a rollout ("whoops! gotta delay the employer mandate!" "whoops! the website isn't ready!"; "whoops! turns out you can't always keep your insurance!&quot just feeds that narrative beautifully. Don't think it matters? The generic Democratic advantage in the congressional midterms basically vanished this week, after climbing steadily since just before the shutdown. It matters.

[Major Hogwash]

47. Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Governor Mitt Romney of Massachusetts.

Just 2 examples of recent rightwing political ideologues that ran for office in order to screw up the government.
From the state of Massachusetts.

I would like someone from Massachusetts to explain to me just how Scott Brown became a Senator in the U.S. Senate representing the state of Massachusetts, after having a stalwart liberal Democrat named Edward Kennedy serve them for 46 years.

Talk about a setback of galling proportions!!!

[WilliamPitt]

66. Easy

1. Coakley didn't campaign;

2. Every Republican in the state turned out to vote, while most Democrats didn't bother.

Scott Brown was/is the product of laziness on the part of people who should know better.

[Whisp]

49. It's not a debacle just because the pugs say it's so.

I'm pissed too - at people that take the same bait over and over and dance like everyone is watching.

'''It is a bright, shining demonstration of governmental ineptitude, wrapped in a bow and delivered into the hands of those who seek to destroy rather than create. Is that right? Is that fair? Of course not. But the Obama administration's astonishing bungle of the rollout of their own hood-ornament policy has given the wreckers an early Christmas present: "See? Government doesn't work." '''

...what Utter Rubbish.

[RobinA]

53. Couldn't Agree More

I think there is a better than even chance this thing will come around eventually, but meanwhile this mess feeds every "government can't do one thing right" nutter in the country. It also gives Congress more time to screw things up, which I am very much afraid of. In Philadelphia, we call this snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in honor of our many sports teams.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

54. The politics of Washington sucks....

Obama is expected to play their games by their rules.

But those rules only apply to Democrats.

Republicans step before the cameras and the entire RW Media is there to be stenographers but a Democrat steps up to the podium and the News Media is all chuckling and presenting everything that was said as a lie or spin. Sometimes they'll even switch off the cameras.

[quinnox]

55. I was pissed it got passed in the first place

No public option, no price controls, a bonanza of forced customers for greedy insurance corporations whose focus is not health care, but denying as many claims as possible, in order to make more money.

It is no surprise this train wreck is happening.

[VanillaRhapsody]

110. yes....we know...

abundantly clear...

[Drunken Irishman]

56. This is ridiculous.

90% of the problems with the ACA right now are due to a fucking website. Not the fact plans are bad or not covering anything or too expensive - it's almost entirely the website. The 10% is divided by unsatisfactory plans and the insurance companies cancelling others. But the fact they're making such an issue about the website and not the actual meat of the legislation and what it's doing tells me it will be a success.

The website is not going to fail forever. It's already leaps and bounds better today than it was a month ago and will be even better a month from now when enrollment begins to reach its final leg. A year from now, it'll be a total non-issue.

Who cares if people TODAY believe the government doesn't work? Will that *really* define the entire ACA? Of course not. No more than XBOX 360's buggy launch in 2005 defined Microsoft.

[ProSense]

60. Yeah, and

government does work:

Obamacare is having one huge success nobody knows about
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024038246

[Whisp]

64. maybe Somalia has a TruthOut division.

This 'goverment doesn't work' shit is getting really annoying. Especially when those fucker baggers are there throwing wrenches 24/7 but that is somehow not in the equation.

[treestar]

63. +1

This would not even have been an issue pre-internet. And you can still apply by phone or in person. Like we always had to do with things before.

Making such a big deal of the web site is what the Republicans will do. Fight them on that rather than flinging blame.

[uponit7771]

100. +1

[treestar]

65. I am not in the least bit angry about this.

And no one should be. Encourage people to apply in the more old fashioned ways or just wait.

[Hissyspit]

151. Just wait.

On getting health insurance when you have no health insurance.

Great advice.

[treestar]

183. It doesn't have to be the first day or week of the open enrollment

And they've waited this long. I want to get on to see what I can do to improve on the current situation. I could call but haven't gotten around to it. Most people are like that, so the media is really just finding some cranks to complain. Because they are desperate to whip up anything against Obamacare. It's funny almost, how desperate they are.

[TNNurse]

67. I am trying not to be pissed.

I choose to be sad. I am sad because the President's INTENT was good. I work in a small hospital which just instituted a new computer system for the Electronic Medical Record. It is a "F---ing nightmare". Things that were simple are not. It saves enormous time in some ways and wastes enormous time in others. It will not go away, too much money was spent. I so wish I had saved and printed every email "fix", "correction" "issue" since the beginning. I am pretty sure the stack of paper would reach the ceiling.

NO matter how bad this has been....I do not believe there have been people working to make it fail. The Republican Party ( and yes you embraced those racist Tea Party folks...so they are included) has worked to make the ACA fail. They are delighted. They are pleased that people are losing their insurance. They are pleased people are suffering. Why??? Because it all makes the President look bad. They hate that black man. They hate he is in office and "their White House".....they will make anyone, any American suffer if it will make him look bad. THEY ARE TRAITORS AND SHOULD BE TRIED AS SUCH. They are working to undermine the Government and overthrow the President.

[blue14u]

147. Thank you TNNurse for using

the word INTENT.. This will be fixed and will not show up on the radar

in 2014!!!

What will show up, if we can PLEASE try to remember, is THE SHUTDOWN!!!

Democrats.. please pay attention to the golden egg!! We just won VA because of the shutdown!!!

Get a grip!!

[jeff47]

75. You know what had huge problems on roll out?

Social Security. How'd that turn out?

Medicare. How'd that turn out?

Medicare-D - mentioned because it shows the Republicans to be massive hippocrites. It's also running fairly well now.

Stop panicking at the first significant set-back. This is going to be a long war, and not everything will go perfectly.

[fadedrose]

80. White House

I knew when he took office that Obama was going to have trouble.

He has people working in the WH, and in high positions elsewhere, that were part of the previous presidents' staffs or families and we all know where their true loyalties lie. And the President should already realize this when he forgives "crimes" out of kindness and his hopeless desire for amicable relations with everyone.

Rahm Emanuel was criticized for his language and temper, but notice, the first term went a lot better when he was chief advisor. Obama has some good friends in the White House but none seem to be aggressive enough or have the gravitas to fight back when he's attacked.

I wish he'd get rid of most of them and get some earthy progressives in there.

Government doesn't seem to be working because that's how some want it. Not just the Republicans don't want a successful president. We can look inside our party as well.

[oberliner]

83. "...You can thank a government"

Actually the funding for all these items you mentioned comes from tax dollars.

[WilliamPitt]

87. Disbursed by a government.

Derp.

[tblue37]

156. And *levied* by government so those tax dollars are there to be distributed. nt

[laserhaas]

84. POTUS Obama is keeping, and will succeed in keeping, his promise to Senator Kennedy

and we WILL have health care reform in America.

[AndyA]

85. Congress and President Obama knew what the insurance companies were when they wrote the ACA

Why didn't they include specifics to prevent the insurance companies from continuing to take advantage of customers? This was hardly a new concept at the time, the insurance companies have been screwing people over for decades.

Oversight, perhaps, but none of this should be a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.

[hfojvt]

89. okay, so I should be pissed

at whom?

And what, further, am I supposed to do about this anger?

Call for Obama's impeachment?
Call for Sebelius's resignation?
Call Congress right fucking now?

or just open my window and scream

"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!!1!!"

[Whisp]

93. be pissed at everything/everyone except the Baggers and Pubs.

they seem to get a pass.
that is the part of 'government' that isn't working, but hell, blame the part that IS trying to work.

[Hissyspit]

136. Who is not pissed at the Baggers & the Rethugs here?

My level of anger at them is only slightly higher than my level of anger when I tried to use healthcare.gov two weeks in. Finally gave up.

[Whisp]

137. if you can compare those two for almost equal anger...

wow.

just wow.

[Hissyspit]

141. Yeah, I could.

The experience I had on healthcare.gov, wasting hours and hours of my time, at a very stressful time in my life, and I STILL have no insurance, knowing full well what the Rethugs would do with this politically, yeah, for a short time, I was equally furious for a time. I'm not oblivious to the fact the our teabagger legislature deliberately fucked up the exchange in our state. Will Pitt blames Baggers and Republicans all the time, so I guess don't understand your original point.

[hfojvt]

182. I was the one who didn't mention baggers or pubs

in my list of people to be pissed at.

But how much did they have to do with healthcare.gov? And if healthcare.gov is not working, I am supposed to be pissed at them, even though it doesn't seem to be their fault?

I suppose it would be working better if a bunch of Republican Governors had accepted Federal money to create their own exchanges.

[Skittles]

94. I agree

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2013, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

especially after being tech savvy helped to get Obama elected....I am also disgusted they were unable to predict the reactions of insurance companies, who have been f***ing America for a long, long time

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. It wasn't a prediction problem...just you cannot stop them from doing it...

the point is...if you are cancelled...you no longer have no option....you have the marketplace. And then your health is not tied to your job!

[TomClash]

95. No one defends government even when it succeeds

And it succeeds a lot.

No one seems to acknowledge that the private sector developed the defective website.

[MichaelSoE]

96. But the government does work for the people

have you forgotten that scotus declared that corporations are people. they [the politicians] just want to destroy government for the 99%

and as far as the panicked few with their pitchforks and torches, screaming about their precious junk insurance being canceled ...
i remember a button i had back during my hippie days "the silent majority is neither" still stands true. they are the boisterous, blustering, bombastic minority.

[Puzzledtraveller]

101. I never liked it when Obama apologizes

The aftermath is always worse than the storm he is apologizing for. He shouldn't have to anyway. I really wish he would make the proper heads roll instead of taking the hit himself. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[merrily]

177. I don't know if there is a right answer anymore.

If you never apologize, you seem like you are incapable of taking responsibility for anything. And if you are always passing the buck down to subordinates, you look as though you don't get what leadership and executive office is about.

(I confess that I do admire Truman for having that sign on his desk. )

On the other hand, too much apologizing has its downside too, as you pointed out, especially if no one is willing to accept the apology and let it go.

Thing is, both Bush and Obama have been under more scrutiny than any President in the past, so a burp gets noticed.

On the other hand, the website and problems for Obama are both far less of a problem, IMO, than someone with cancer whose cheap policy has been helping them out, despite all the bad things about it, and now has a cancellation notice in hand. That person will get coverage from another policy, yes, but is going to have to pay a lot more because of the pre-existing condition issue, whereas the former insuer seems to have accepted the fact that it was legally stuck with the person.

People who have lousy policies tend to have them in the first place because they just can't afford better coverage. And, if you've been sick, you can afford even less now.

So, there is some real hurt out there and I hope they fix it.

[Moosepoop]

184. They did fix it.

On the other hand, the website and problems for Obama are both far less of a problem, IMO, than someone with cancer whose cheap policy has been helping them out, despite all the bad things about it, and now has a cancellation notice in hand. That person will get coverage from another policy, yes, but is going to have to pay a lot more because of the pre-existing condition issue, whereas the former insuer seems to have accepted the fact that it was legally stuck with the person.

Part of the ACA specifies that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage or charge more for it due to pre-existing conditions. Which means that a cancer patient whose junk policy just got canceled can go on the exchange, get coverage, and pay no more for their coverage than their healthier neighbors in the same age and income bracket.

It's one of the very good things about the ACA.

[merrily]

185. I just googled and could not find that, except as to group plans.

For example, if an employer hires someone with a pre-existing condition, the insurer cannot charge more to add that person to the employer's plan (and that's great because it takes away a problem for an employer hiring a person with, say, a disability.)


I could not find anything that said the same thing as to an individual paying for his or her own plan.

I knew Obamacare made it illegal to deny coverage to individuals with pre-existing conditions, but I had not heard that the insurer could not charge them more.

I only looked at about 5 of the hits though, so I will take your word for it. Thank you. That is a relief because I have been worrying about the scenario I described in the post to which you replied. (Not for myself. Thank heaven, I don't have cancer and I am set with insurance.)

[Moosepoop]

186. Here's one. :-)

Obamacare and You: If You Have a Pre-Existing Condition

Oct 01, 2013

If you or someone in your family has a pre-existing health condition – such as heart disease, asthma, or even a pregnancy – you will find it much easier to obtain coverage or change plans starting in 2014. Obamacare bars insurers from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, or physical or mental illnesses or conditions that existed before coverage began. Insurers also can no longer refuse to pay for otherwise-covered medical care and services due to a pre-existing condition or charge you more because of a pre-existing condition in the family.

What’s Covered

If you don’t have insurance or want to change plans, you can shop for a new plan in the individual insurance market or on your state’s new health insurance marketplace (or exchange). These plans will cover doctor visits, hospitalization, prescription drugs and maternity care without any restrictions for pre-existing conditions. They will cover preventive services like immunizations, screenings and contraception at no expense to you. You will not have to give your detailed health or medical history to apply. The marketplaces will allow you to compare plans and prices. The open enrollment period for your state’s marketplace will run from Oct. 1 through March 31. Coverage begins on Jan. 1, 2014.

[merrily]

187. I see. They handled access and cost together by omitting the need to give info.

I wish the wording were different. Like, do NOT give your detailed health or medical history.

Still, I am so relieved. I have been stressing. I think I was born with an overdeveloped empathy gene for people who are hurting. At least that's what my mom says.

See, you improved my health!

Thanks, again.

[ananda]

109. Agree.

It's given the Reeps a gift they do not deserve.

[budkin]

114. Could not have said it better

[Keefer]

116. Nothing is going to change.

These insurance companies have already made plans to sell only the plans that are ACA compliant. There are only 30 days left to get permission from the various state insurance commissioners. Before they do that, they have to bargain with doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc so they can set the rates they are going to charge. All this to go back to selling what they scrapped. There is NO WAY all that can happen in the next 30 days.

We'll see if anyone says anything after this meeting today between Obama and insurance company execs. We'll know more then.

By the way, Washington state's insurance commissioner, a dem, already said "No." 49 more to go.

[Burma Jones]

118. The Era of Crony Contracting erupted in the Reagan Era.......

The Web Site debacle is but another example of how the DC area grew into the most affluent part of the Nation.

Honestly, the ACA roll out shows that Government does indeed work, it works to transfer tax dollars from the public to corporate shareholders.

[liberal_at_heart]

125. maybe by the time his presidency is up he will be tired of cooperating with corporations.

Next time we need a president that fights corporations.

[proud patriot]

127. exactly

[kentuck]

128. I cannot understand how...

...these folks with canceled policies knew about "Obamacare" for the last three years and never asked any questions to their insurance companies and their insurance companies never volunteered to tell them that their policies would be cancelled as of January 2014? They were ambushed by Obamacare.

Also, the Republicans are now acting as if they are against Obamacare because people's policies are being cancelled? They were against it when they thought these folks would keep their policies. They have tried to repeal it 40-some odd times.

And now they act as if they had no idea about these individual policies being cancelled by the insurance companies. Give me a break!

[indepat]

129. Saint Reagan's "government is the problem" was one of the most cynically harmful statements ever

uttered by a sitting president imo. The problem is elected and appointed officials like Saint Ronnie who fail uphold their oaths of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and otherwise fail to discharge their duties in the public interest, to wit: fail to promote the general welfare by promoting the welfare of special interest groups to the detriment of the common good.

[marble falls]

135. Will - in a lot of ways we contributed to nix on government. We made jokes about it, like .....

"close enough for government." We made it hard to contradict Teabilly smears on government and governmental workers when we slam them also. the problem was never the workforce of the Fed, it was always the political appointees in charge.

[Maineman]

138. How did Republican politicians know in advance that the website was not ready??

I read that some company involved in building the website has donated lots of money to Republicans. I don't suppose there has been any dirty trickery??

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

139. Yeah I agree entirely, and for a President whose campaign utilized technology so masterfully,

there's no excuse, really. It's a shame and a squandered opportunity.

[ancianita]

142. I agree with everything here. But the ACA is NOT a debacle. That's a right wing amplification

of 'problems' only experienced by the 3% who want to keep their cheapass insurance policies. I say let them shut up, take the crap they have and leave the silly "FAIL" yelling out of the airways.

So what if this rollout isn't perfect. This one is a start that will get sorted out in the next two years.

The ACA is a testament to how government works.

[Doctor_J]

144. repukes were on the ropes after the shutdown. this revived them

Epic disaster

[Rosa Luxemburg]

145. I think we should BAN all Republicans from getting government services!

no fire department, library, make them pay tolls on the highways (sorry republicans you have to have a card to swipe to use this road). Make them pay for their kids to go to school, no state-funded merit scholarships for their children. The list is endless.

[JEFF9K]

146. Isn't this a failure of the private company that won the contract?

[jimlup]

148. but make no mistake...

a big part of the perceived problems with the rollout of the ACA is the 24/7 media shrill.

The media has shown their true colors. They will jump on the Republican bandwagon on a whim without pausing to think.

The Republicans are trashing our country and in my opinion they are the true enemy. And I don't say that lightly.

[Enrique]

152. and in case some people didn't get the anti-government message

Obama drove the point home with his lamenting how the private sector works so much better than the public sector.

[Triana]

165. "we're going to tattoo it on their forehead in 2014"...

...said the American Taliban re: Obamacare.

They already have, and had copius help from their media in doing so. None have railed against the insurance companies malfeasance in all this and there was a lot of it (and no that doesn't account for the website issues though).

This behavior on the part of Insurance is the epitome of why they need ACA regulations to start with.

Regardless, if Dems ever had any chance of regaining the House in 2014, they don't now.

[liberalmuse]

169. I'm pissed at the Republicans, not President Obama.

And...this is why we liberals aren't doing as well as we should. We blame ourselves before blaming the asshats who are truly responsible for this fiasco. We slop up our own at the same trough with the Republicans. Fuck that.

[Luminous Animal]

172. Dude, the Democratic party has been enthusiastic partners in privatizing

public services.

Thus ACA.

[Mostly Orbiting]

173. dureced

durecked? durec'd? direct?

[merrily]

176. I just had an epiphany. I am not pissed about government's failures or callousness.

I am heartbroken.

All this time, I thought I was angry.

I guess that's because it's easier for me than crying.