Today? "You can KEEP your insurance, PERIOD." Tomorrow? "You can KEEP your DOCTOR, PERIOD."

[cherokeeprogressive]

This whole mess hasn't even begun to play out yet. President Obama made TWO prescient promises... promises he knew he couldn't/wouldn't/didn't plan to keep.

We're debating the first as if it's the end of the fucking world. It ain't. It's a lie which will be a mountain that could have been a molehill had those in charge of the message decided early on to be more transparent. Would that it could. I can only hope that the last living person on Earth chisels that into a rock before she dies...

"Would that it could."

Come January, MILLIONS of people are going to want to go see "THEIR" Doctor, now that their plan has changed... now that their plan entitles them to so much more than they paid for before...

What are they going to say when they find out that DR. SMITH doesn't participate in their plan? The DOCTOR they've seen for DECADES doesn't participate, and might as well now be as far from them as France?

New debacle.

What's the short-term answer for THIS one? January to November is a LONG time... and NOVEMBER is when the MID-TERM Elections happen.

We're spending all our waking hours arguing about insurance WHICH ISN'T HEALTH CARE and in less than 47 DAYS everyone's going to start scheduling appointments...

47 Days.

[BlueStreak]

1. True dat. And the government can't enforce either one.

The provision in the ACA ALLOWED insurance companies to continue to offer grandfathered policies. It didn't compel them to. You can't compel an insurance company to continue offering a product they don't want to offer. They can rightly argue that because of so many of their customers moving to ACA plans, ht isn't cost efficient to maintain a provider network for the old policy.

And you are right. If this "keep your policy" thing got settled, that doesn't guarantee you can keep your doctor. Once again, every doctor has the right to choose which networks they will participate in each year. You cannot compel a doctor to remain in a network if he doesn't want to.

Talk about an intrusive government program. I thought the Republicans wanted to keep Government out of this stuff.

[Demo_Chris]

14. Not to nitpick, but if you can mandate people buy something they dont want to buy...

Then you can mandate that someone sell something they do not want to sell.

Now the later seems absurd. But then so did the former before we did it.

[BlueStreak]

50. I really don't think it is the same at all.

It does no harm to society if Wellpoint decides they don't want to compete with 20 other companies in California, or that a particular type of plan is not in their wheelhouse.

It does significant hard to society if a lot of people choose to not carry health insurance, yet feel that they should get free care by going to the ER whenever something happens.

In the abstract, I might agree with you, but the law and Constitution allow courts to look at the real world factors, and that is how the SCOTUS decided this point.

[BlueStreak]

2. Regarding ACA plans not including your doctor, look it up BEFORE you buy

It takes a little time to research that, but it isn't that hard. Every company should publish their network. I have an Anthem plan today that has my PCP and most of the specialists I have seen over the years. There are only two companies in the exchange in my area. Anthem has 12 plans and a local company has 2 plans. When I checked on the Anthem network, it was a completely different network for the ACA policies. It was horrible. It didn't include ANY of the doctors I have seen in recent years. I looked at the network for the entire county and it couldn't possibly be more than 10% of the docs practicing here.

The other company has a GREAT network for the same price. That network includes everybody I have ever seen who is still practicing.

I can't imaging any market with less choice than I have. It is inconceivable that one's doctors wouldn't be in at least one of the networks.

[dsc]

5. over half the counties in NC have only one company in the ACA

Blue Cross

[BlueStreak]

49. Active Republican sabotage?

I bet you will find a strong inverse correlation between exchange competitiveness and Republican administrations.

The only thing they like more than a "free market" is to groove business to their political friends.

And I bet all those BCBS policies have super-stripped-down provider networks.

This whole idea of leaving state insurance commissioners in charge is ridiculous. There is nothing at all local about health care. Leukemia is leukemia whether it is in Cincinnati or Topeka.

[dsc]

56. probably lots of things

blue cross is huge here. Our market was over 80 percent blue cross before that ACA. I am sure that there is some sabatoge going on but our insurance commissioner is a democrat.

[BlueStreak]

59. Well it might just be good old-fashioned colusion

BCBS agrees to not compete vigorously in some other states if other insurance companies agree to leave them alone in your state.

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[slipslidingaway]

3. Or a hospital that is no longer in network when something serious happens ...

and you want the best care.
I see people focus on the monthly premiums when they also need to consider the providers in network and the annual out of pocket maximum.

[Walk away]

55. Here in NJ we only have 3 providers on the exchange...

and BCBSNJ is the big one. That's fine with me as I already had shitty insurance with that company and, now, through the exchange I have a much better policy for about the same costs. My doctors will be the same as well. I consider myself pretty lucky.

However, ten minutes from my house in NYC they have over 20 insurers competing and driving prices down on the exchange. Blue New York has been setting up their exchange for three years and offering companies lots of help and incentives. I would be paying much less for more if it weren't for Chris Christie.

The Roberts Court and their republican governors have made it impossible to keep those promises in many red states.

[Lifelong Dem]

4. Shop for another plan maybe

One with your doctor in it.

[Live and Learn]

6. Complete hogwash.

Did anyone actually believe that Obama meant that insurance companies would never change anything? Or that your doctor would never die, retire or drop your insurance?

Everyone knew what he meant. It wasn't Obama that was dishonest, it is this conversation.

[slipslidingaway]

7. The providers in your HC plan also include hospitals ...

they do not die.
People need to check where they can go for treatment, it is more than just doctors.
When you have a serious illness it is not hogwash

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. "Everyone knew what he meant." Um...

Tell ya what...

When my PRESIDENT makes a DECLARITAVE STATEMENT, and ends it with the word "PERIOD"... my inference is that statement needs NO clarification, NO interpretation, NO qualification, and is otherwise to be taken WORD FOR WORD as the "honest to God's truth".

Give me words to prove I'm out of the norm here...

[legcramp]

8. We have asked my wife's oncologists what programs they will be participating in

and they don't know yet because they haven't even seen a reimbursement schedule yet.

We'll be keeping our old "junk" policy for the time being.

[gulliver]

10. First, Dr. Smith is not to be trusted.

How many times does he have to do completely rotten, unethical things before the Robinsons finally kick him off the ship? Is it me?

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

[Savannahmann]

11. One mistake in your premise

In 47 days everyone is going to try and schedule an appointment and find that a vast majority of the doctors are not taking new patients.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. ACA will be like HERPES... the "gift that keeps on giving". TO THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS. n/t

[Demo_Chris]

15. How dare you! The ACA is the greatest law in the history of ever!

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Because... Obama?

[Demo_Chris]

18. Of course! He's dreamy. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. We

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Are

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. SO

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. FUCKED IN 2014

[Demo_Chris]

25. heh-heh

[QC]

52. You never really loved him!!!1

[libdem4life]

23. I heard many times when I went on Medicare, that the doctor was not taking new patients. Not a damn

thing you can do but go down the list. I can hardly imagine what it will be like for all the current new Medicaid enrollees, and that's before the ACA kicks in.

The other big problem I see real soon here is that there will be a shortage of every profession in medicine, not just doctors. but PAs, pharmacists, nurses, LPNs, even billing/insurance experts. All of these spots take years of expensive training, and the student loan debacle and the high cost of education has discouraged high-cost careers.

At least it provides a vibrant, new potential career choice, but not for a few years I fear.

Back in my college years, they were short teachers, and I was fortunate enough to be able to work and get grants and scholarships and my student loans deferred until I graduated. Then they forgave one fourth every year I taught at a disadvantaged school district and four years later, they were "paid". They are going to have to do something like that now.

[slipslidingaway]

26. There are just not enough medical professionals to go around with the influx of new ...

patients. My daughter is a third year resident and my husband had a bone marrow transplant three years ago, so I'm seeing this from different views. Interesting, although I could do without the transplant angle
Just spent 12 hours at the hospital today where some people were worried about their policy being discontinued ... interesting times.
You are so right about this filtering down to a shortage in other areas.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I'm keeping MY Doctor.. right next to my walrus

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. I am the Eggman... they are the Eggmen

I am the Walrus.

Warren, stop looking over my shoulder, please?

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Not now, I have to go get Semolina Pilchard off the Eiffel Tower, again

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Have I told you I loved you lately?

I will.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Sweet!

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Later though... when no one's watching.

[HijackedLabel]

27. The promises were that the law didn't change those things.

Spitefulness by doctors and insurance companies don't make the President a liar, no matter how many ways people try to make it so.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. I hope your pulled muscles are covered...

Twisting into pretzel shapes in order to defend words you KNOW you're defending because of a man rather than because of reality is covered... ya know.

Got that.

[HijackedLabel]

30. Reality?

Reality is that every time in my impoverished life that I've gotten medical coverage is from a Democratic administration, first with President Clinton and now with President Obama.

Reality is that I'm defending this President not because I'm some slobbering, starstruck brainless moron that kisses the ass of anyone in power, but because I think he's worthy of my defense.

Reality is that before you type snarky bullshit like that to me or someone like me next time, it might be best that you withhold judgment rather than trying to explain away the cause of someone liking this President.

But in the event that I'm just a damn dirty liar, I assure you that the expanded Medicaid in my state (made possible by Obamacare), under which I am now covered, will cover the full expense of pulled muscles.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

34. tired of the crap. fuck the shitheads who don't want to make this country better

we. will. leave them behind!

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. One Problem: The shitheads vote.

Here's where we as a party fucked up:

We let our President tell them something less than the truth. He admitted as much Thursday.

Come Jan 1, 2014, and their finding out THEIR lifelong doctor doesn't participate in the plan that costs them more, with a higher deductible and a higher out of pocket cost, there will be a whole host of questions of answer, much like Barack Obama answered (much to NO ONE'S surprise) yesterday. In January, heads are going to be called for... President Obama, true to form, won't finger any single person as being responsible for where we will be on that day.

[Keefer]

57. Then one year later...

when the employer mandate kicks in, how many more will this be happening to? 85% get health insurance through work. We could be in VERY big trouble. Only time will tell.

[Fearless]

37. Pure fearmongering

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Back up that well researched and reasoned claim with the tiniest kernel

of fact?

Nope.

[Fearless]

40. You made the claim. You back it up.

The rest of the world does not have this problem. We won't either.

[Fumesucker]

41. Ah, but we have a uniquely American system of health care

So the experience of other nations does not have any bearing on the American experience.

[Fearless]

42. We will have fewer able to go to see doctors

Than the rest of the world. We do not have universal health care. We have near-universal sickness care availability. Not everyone will take it. Not everyone can afford it. Theirs goes FURTHER than ours. Theirs still does not have the problem of "not being able to see a doctor". It's right wing bullshit perpetuated to scare people into wanting less for themselves and more for the wealthy elite.

[Fumesucker]

43. Uniquely American can be either good or bad

The devil, as always, is hiding in the details.

And the ACA has two thousand pages give or take of details for him to hide in.

"We have to pass it to see what's in it" -Nancy Pelosi

[Fearless]

45. Fear of what you don't know is irrational

The text is available online. Free for you to read. About the combined length of the seven Harry Potter novels that little kids are able to read. Surely adults could sit through something as important as reading the ACA. Its not a mystery. Its been read. Thousands of times. Do insurance companies try to get around the law? Of course. In time we will adjust to cut off their attempts again.

[Fumesucker]

47. Even Nancy Pelosi couldn't figure out all the ramifications of the language in the bill

That's why I put her quote in my post.

Evidently Pelosi's paid staff couldn't figure out all the ramifications either.

[Fearless]

58. You're blaming someone for not predicting

With total accuracy how someone will try to get around established law?

Can you cite a single instance where anyone can?

[scheming daemons]

39. um. people that had no coverage at all HAD no doctor

And the people on the individual market that got cancellation letters....

- many had crappy Catastrophic Care plans that didn't cover doctor visits, so they can still pay out of pocket to see whatever doctor they wish

- now, many can sign up to keep their substandard plan... so no change.

Also no change for 85% of us who get our insurance through govt or employer.

[Fumesucker]

44. Are you sure that no one in America pays out of pocket to see their doctor?

[eridani]

46. Private insurance has always kept us from keeping our plans or our doctors

ACA does not change this. Single payer will.

[Laelth]

53. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[MANative]

48. It feels like there's a coordinated effort to fuck the thing up...

Hubby and I are covered by insurance through his employer. They entered the new "corporate exchange" (administered by AON-Hewitt - a huge HR/Benefits consulting firm) for 2014, and our plan options were basically the same as what you find on the government exchange. We selected the same coverage that we've had for the last few years, with the same insurer, at the same rate. I looked up the doctors we see, and found that they were all on the list as approved providers. Yesterday, I heard on the radio that United Healthcare, our insurer for the past six years, was dropping tens of thousands of doctors from their network, effective January 1st. So how are we supposed to know whether the doctors we see are really part of the network, as their documentation said when we completed the sign-up, or will be booted off in six weeks? It seems like you can't even make a decision with the "available facts" because the available facts keep changing.

I'm convinced that insurers are actively looking for every loophole they can find and exploit to make ACA fail, and more importantly, to ensure that the President and the Democrats are blamed for it.

[SoCalDem]

51. Nothing is forever... ever.. and "promises" made are routinely broken..

We all (society) need to grow up.

Our favorite-ist doctor EVER, had the gall to inherit a fortune and retire..

how dare he !!!!!

He told us flat-out.."Sorry to leave you in the lurch, but my grandfather died & left me 2.9 million after taxes, & my wife wants to move to Costa Rica".. He was in his 50's and was tired of the paperwork, and the pressure to "move more patients"...

I guess we should have been outraged, but we were happy for him, and just found another doctor.

[FarCenter]

54. It looks like we're moving to Medicare, employer insurance, and Medicaid for everyone else

The combination of few insurers, limited provider networks, and subsidies based on income make the individual insurance market look a lot like Medicaid.

The concept "Medicare for all" has been bandied about a lot, but that's not happening.

If employer insurance disappears, it looks like we are headed towards Medicare for >65 people and Medicaid for everyone else.

[liberal_at_heart]

60. My husband has an ophthalmologist that he has seen for the past 12 years and I guarantee he will not

stop seeing that doctor no matter if they are in network or not.