Another kid with a fake gun shot by a cop

[gollygee]

We had fake guns that looked very real in the 70s when I was a kid and I don't remember anyone getting shot. I think kids played with guns a LOT more back then, and yet I don't remember hearing about kids getting shot.

There is a picture of the fake gun in the story and it looks pretty real to me, and certainly would from a distance.

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20131116/NEWS01/311160018/Battle-Creek-police-officer-shoots-14-year-old-holding-fake-gun?odyssey=mod%7Cbreaking%7Ctext%7CFrontpage&gcheck=1

He said officers were called at 11:57 a.m. for a man with gun. The caller told a 911 dispatcher a white man was walking on Upton Avenue near Washington Avenue with a woman and was carrying a gun.

Officers arrived in the area at 12:01 p.m. and reported the male was running through some bushes toward the Drive-Thru Party Factory at 250. S. Washington Ave. near Grove Street and was carrying what appeared to be handgun.

The male entered the store but then came out and was crouching near the drive-through area of the store.

The officer arrived, saw the person, and called for him to show his hands. Saylor said the investigation thus far shows that the teen produced what appeared to be a large-caliber handgun from his clothing.

[penultimate]

1. This story makes it sound as if the officer shot him right when he saw the gun

It doesn't say he pointed it him or anything..

[Brigid]

2. No way I would let my kid carry that around.

Waaaay to real-looking to be safe.I thought they were supposed to have a big orange stripe on them or something.

[rdharma]

3. Orange stripe or not...... a kid is going to hit that "orange" with some flat black spray paint.

To impress.........

I was a dumb kid once...... and I know what I would have done.

[Gravitycollapse]

7. Would you have pulled your real looking toy gun on a police officer?

My guess is probably not.

[rdharma]

9. Do we know that is truly what happened?

I can see why the officer would claim that.... But did it really happen like that?

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Are you asking me if I myself literally know if that is exactly what happened?

Because if you are, what would be the point of such a question?

[rdharma]

18. The gun is a dead ringer for a real S&W Mod. 459.....

My only question would be...... did the kid really point it at the cop?!! If so..... that would indicate that the kid desired "suicide by cop".

[Gravitycollapse]

20. Or that he was simply acting stupidly.

It happens.

[rdharma]

29. That's also a possibility with kids.

The reason I thought it may have been "suicide by cop" is that the kid was displaying outside of a convenience store where somebody noticed the "gun" and called it in. Rather strange/stupid "to display out front" if the kid had intended to rob the place with a fake pistol.

And when the popo arrived, he should have tossed it. But decided to go down "in a blaze of glory"?

[WinkyDink]

4. They're "toy" guns, not "fake" guns.

[Lizzie Poppet]

11. In this particular case, I'm not sure I agree.

That pistol looks VERY real, even in a clear, large picture. My first reaction to that pic was to wonder why they used a picture of a real pistol (and I OWN a rather similar Smith & Wesson handgun). I'd be more inclined to call that a "replica" than a "toy." Not to excuse the cop (the story seems to indicate that he was too quick on the trigger), but I can't imagine letting a kid of mine have something like that for a toy.

Of course, at 14, what parents think they're "letting" their kids have and what the kids actually have are often two different things. =(

[dionysus]

25. the article says "replica"

[LittleBlue]

5. That gun looks way too real

I can see why the cop thought it was a real gun.

Tragic.

[Gravitycollapse]

6. People need to stop giving guns, real or fake, to kids.

Guns aren't toys. They are killing tools. That we make them into toys says a lot about our culture of violence.

With that being said, I cannot blame the officer in this situation. All of the indicators would lead a healthy minded individual to assume the suspect was in possession of a real gun. It even looks like a real gun.

[PADemD]

8. +1000

[99Forever]

13. Agree on all points of your response.

Guns are not toys. Even toy guns are not toys, they are instruments to persuade young minds that deadly weapons are a "normal thing" in everyday life.

[840high]

37. +1

[libdem4life]

12. I used to get upset about this, but it's bordering on kind of a Darwinian event. And yes, I know,

teenagers. But this is butt-stupidity of both parent and child. The convenience store clerk did the right thing, the officers did the right thing, this kid got a break because these weren't overzealous cops. And likely the fact he was white (and it was daylight) may have had something to do with the restraint. I hate to think that, but it seems to often be the case.

If I were his parent/teacher I would require that he tell his story to some local school classes. Maybe even on local TV. I'd accompany him. Kids listen to kids...especially ones who just caught a break...the break being he wasn't killed. They've done this a lot with drunken teen driving ... showed some horrifying film/photos ... and it works.

[Niceguy1]

15. and a kid that age with the real gun is very conceivable

I just read an article about a 12 year old and 2 15 year olds that did a home invasion robbery beat up an old man and really messed up this house. Apparanty they aare gang members.

Kids can be dangerous.

[Gravitycollapse]

17. "Kids can be dangerous." - So how far up the "enemies list" should I move "kids?"

Are they public enemy #1 now?

[Niceguy1]

19. No but a call with a kid with a gun

should be treated with real caution. You cannot assume that the kid is innocent and these cops did a good job.

[Gravitycollapse]

21. "You cannot assume that the kid is innocent" - In what dystopian nightmare hellscape is it okay...

for law enforcement to not assume an individual is innocent, first and foremost?

That the kid was innocent and that the officers did nothing wrong are not mutually exclusive thoughts. They are inductive arguments and, if you know anything about rhetoric, there is always a possible world in which two inductive arguments can coexist without contradiction.

[Niceguy1]

28. let me rephrase that cause I worded it really party

you cannot assume that a call for a person with a gun is the safe call just because it's a kid. my point is that you can assume that it's not dangerous because because the person maybe 14 15 13 years old.

[Gravitycollapse]

16. The way Darwinian evolutionary theory is abused by people...

who have no idea what they are talking about never ceases to amaze me.

[tkmorris]

22. You don't err on the side of being too nice to people often, do you?

Even when you have a point you seem to go out of the way to present it rudely. Why not lighten up and just talk to people like they're your friends and neighbors? It makes for far more pleasant conversation.

[Gravitycollapse]

24. You just said this kid got what he deserved because of Dwarinism.

How is that a precursor to a pleasant conversation?

The mechanisms of Darwinian evolution are entirely ammoral. Natural selection is a commentary on one aspect of biological fitness.

So when you are essentially talking about the kid getting what was coming, which is statement pregnant with ethical judgement, you sound both cold hearted and ridiculous.

[libdem4life]

26. Oh, please. Yet to such superiority I shrink in deference. Silly social sciences...who knew.

[Gravitycollapse]

27. Saying a kid who was shot got what was coming because of Darwinism is a shitty thing to say.

Regardless of your educational background.

But I notice a lot of people talk about Darwinism without understanding even its most fundamental claims. Which is really how Social Darwinism has morphed so vigorously out of a perversion of Darwin's ideas.

[libdem4life]

30. Again? He asked for nothing, any more than a drunk teen asks to get killed. Gee, this will keep it

to three sentences here if I use the three dots so...I guaran.damn.tee you that "adapt or die" has just a tad more meanings than just the old "slithering out of the cosmic waters." type. OK, 4...and he'll likely adapt because he did not die. See, that's the thing...we don't have to wait a few thousand years to finally get that it's really, really dumb to take real or fake guns out to convenience stores who have phones to call the cops and if you tell your friends and family and others, they might adapt real quick like. Fifth one a bit run on, now six...oh well.

[loyalsister]

14. "Is it a gun, is it a knife, is it a wallet? This is your life."

It really has gotten that real and that cold. The market for those toy guns exists because of the gun culture and the owners of the real thing are cruising along fine with their holstered or concealed weapons. Why is there no concern coming from those gun owners?

[NightWatcher]

23. I feel bad for the cop. He's got to live with this

But had he not shot and had the gun been real instead of a realistic toy, his family would be mourning tonight.

No more toy guns. No more Airsoft lookalikes. No more pellet guns that look real.




Pop Quiz: You're a cop, it's late, a teenager pulls this out and you've got to decide in less than a second to shoot or not.

[Hoyt]

35. Just think, if gun cultists didn't have so damn many AK/ARs, police would have known it was fake.

Yet, you won't see one gun cultist take any blame. To them, it's just the price we pay to keep em in gunz.

[Hoyt]

31. Too many gun nuts out there. I can see police being cautious, but damn

this needs to stop - police being trigger happy and perhaps taking an "I'm going home even if that means I might shoot an innocent kid" attitude, and private citizens promoting more gunz in more places.

[tblue37]

32. IF the description of the kid's actions is accurate (we know cops often

describe things in ways that make them sound VERY different from what really happened), then the kid was behaving quite oddly.

In fact, the description of his behavior is so bizarre I have trouble believing it. It sounds as though he was playing a game of "ambudsh" ALL BY HIMSELF.

[ReRe]

33. New advice to my children:

Stay away from cops. Stay away from guns (toy or otherwise.)

[Agnosticsherbet]

34. The issue of children with toys guns being shot by cops has been around for decades.

The first story I heard was in the 70's in San Diego. Here is a history going back to 1983.

http://www.irol.com/avc/fact_sheet_about_toy_guns.html

It is why I never allowed my children to own toy guns.

[Brigid]

36. Long ago, I read a news story . . .

About police receiving a call about someone wearing military-type cammies and carrying a rifle, lurking around a heavily wooded area (a park, I think). Turned out to be an eight-year-old kid playing army. When the kid saw the cops, he immediately dropped his very realistic-looking toy M-16 and raised his hands. The boy's quick thinking defused the situation very effectively, and what could have been a tragedy was avoided.