Regardless of what you think about Obama, a vast majority of the party still loves him...

[Drunken Irishman]

And they will be the ones who help decide who the next nominee will be. You can suggest the populist supporters in this party want to turn their back on this administration in four years, but I'd also suggest that many of those same populists also, by and large, still approve of the job Obama is doing.

Don't be so sure you're advocating a majority opinion. Obama's approval, according to Gallup, is 80% with Democrats.

Just throwin' that out there. While I would emphatically support a Warren campaign, remember playing her up as the anti-Obama isn't necessarily going to win her a primary where a vast majority of the voters like and support the President.

[xchrom]

1. in their districts -- 'popular' elects tea party candidates.

i don't give a fuck about 'popular'.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. You probably don't give a fuck about winning, either.

Warren certainly won't run against Obama in 2016 unless his presidency as turned so toxic and scandal-plagued that no one wants to be in the same room with the guy. But when nearly the entire party supports the President, and I'd wager most those who don't are actually conservative Democrats that are DINOs, it's not smart politics to alienate those voters by acting like he's some devil and it's time to turn the page on everything he's done.

Our vote is just as vital and important as yours. It would be silly for any challenger to run away from Obama.

[xchrom]

12. you think more highly of your opinion than i do. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

13. That's the problem - you think I need your validation.

I don't. Frankly, I don't care if you think highly of my opinion or not.

[xchrom]

19. i don't think about you ...or your opinion at all. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

21. Good.

Good day.

[pnwmom]

33. Popular elected Barack Obama.

And would probably re-elect him if given a chance.

By 2016 this kerfuffle over healthcare will be long past, and Democrats will be thrilled to have Obama campaign for them.

Including Sen. Warren -- though it is unlikely she'll run for President since she signed a letter to Clinton asking her to run.

[Whisp]

2. I love both Warren and Obama.

But I know what you mean about that 'playing her up to be anti-Obama' crowd here.

Warren is the best choice to continue his good works. They are of like mind.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. I agree and I think Warren would agree with you there.

Warren is the next logical step, beyond Joe Biden, in changing America. Obama got the progressive's foot in the door, and Warren can get us all in there if we play our cards right.

[russspeakeasy]

6. +1

[passiveporcupine]

31. Yes!

I think Obama has done wonders, considering what he has been up against, and considering that he is not as progressive as Warren. I think they are both on the same side in what counts. They both care about the people. I think Obama might have proved more progressive if he hadn't been waging such a battle with the recalcitrant republicans.

[calimary]

43. So do I. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus.

I don't care how many people badmouth the Affordable Care Act or buy into the "let's all dump on it" game. Every time I hear or see some of that, I think - "FUCK YOU! People NEED the help!!!! And the other team's got nothing for 'em except 'FUCK YOU'."

[MineralMan]

5. Warren's great. I encourage her to run in the primaries.

If she doesn't succeed, as I expect, I encourage her to continue her current work in the Senate.

In any case, President Obama will fare well in history, once his second term is over. Indeed he will.

[cali]

9. How President Obama will or won't fare in the eyes of historians simply isn't known

and part of that is dependent on the next couple of years.

[MineralMan]

17. My opinion is that he will be remembered well in history.

As you will see if you glance at my signature line, what I write here is my opinion. Yours might differ.

[calimary]

44. I think you'll be proven correct.

[MineralMan]

54. Thanks.

I am pretty sure of that.

[cali]

7. I don't think for a moment that I'm articulating the majority position when

I oppose Hillary Clinton, but I do know that opinion can change quickly and that there are indications that democrats are turning against candidates that they believe are overly entangled with Wall Street, megacorporations and big banksters.

I also want to emphasize that for me, this isn't about Warren, who I don't think will run.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. I'm not really talking Hillary...

Hillary has her own baggage that isn't necessarily equal to what we discuss with Obama. It's the idea that the Democratic Party as a whole is moving away from the President. I disagree. I think they're moving in a direction he's been advocating for since he ran in 2008 and it'll help progressive candidates in the future govern. Unfortunately, Obama inherited a Congress that was, while under Democratic control, also there because of a great deal of conservative/moderate Dems from conservative/moderate districts and that hampered a great deal of legislation.

The coalition for the future of the party continues to be Hispanics, blacks and younger voters. Obama changed the game with his blueprint to victory and America has changed a great deal under his leadership. I believe we are a more progressive country today than the day Obama won in 2008, and part of that is because Obama has been the face of that liberalism and it's been accepting.

Some DUers really don't want to believe that - but it was always important to mainstream liberalism to the American public and I think we've done that the last five years. It'll make it that much easier for a progressive to run, and then win.

Just my 0.02 cents, though. I'm sure you'll disagree.

[cali]

15. I don't disagree that most democrats support the President

I don't think the party is moving away from him.

I do think that there are a lot of seemingly conflicting trends among dem voters.

I don't see how we're a more progressive nation. What evidence do you have that supports that?

I hope you're right about the path for more progressives being elected, but on the whole, particularly when it comes to economic issues, I don't think President Obama is a progressive. Few political analysts and pundits do.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. There is a great deal of evidence...

1) More Americans today support gay marriage than in 2008.
2) Choice is becoming an aggressive fight for millions of Americans.
3) There is a bigger push at the ground level against union-busting politicians.

The problem isn't the people - it's the judges, congress and the minority ideologues.

As for Obama being an economic progressive, I look at him as more economically pragmatic. I see him to the left of Clinton, but certainly to the right of some past Democratic presidents (namely FDR).

[cali]

24. abortion services have been severely curtailed over the past few years.

that is NOT the fault of President Obama but I think it points to something very troubling- that Americans don't understand TRAP laws.

Marriage equality- (I so dislike the phrase "gay marriage"- there's just marriage) is one issue. I'm overjoyed that support for it has become the mainstream thing.

Unions have lost ground over the past few years- not made gains.


I see President Obama as giving in to to corporate influences at virtually every turn.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. I think you're already starting to see blowback on the anti-choice agenda...

The real test will be Wendy Davis in Texas. However, the legislatures and judges who impose radical, anti-woman laws are obviously a hindrance to the overall progress of the country ... but I don't think they're indicative of the people.

But yeah. You'll see what you want to see. So, there really is no point pushing forward with this discussion. You've made it quite clear you pretty much don't like the President anymore and will go out of your way to make comments alluding to that hatred. Whatever.

However, if you're right, and America is not moving more toward progressivism, good luck getting a Democrat, or any politician, elected to the presidency who's to the left of Obama. That ain't gonna happen.

[cali]

41. It's not a matter of seeing what I want to see. It's a matter of FACTS

the facts are not debatable regarding the loss of access to abortion for women in this country. Period.

Is there some blowback? Yes. Has there been much success from it? Not to date.

I find it disgusting beyond words that you're accusing me of hating the President. I do not. I oppose some of his policies. I think he's far too friendly.

Oh, and you know little about the fight for abortion rights.

I actually do.

[RainDog]

8. any problems people have with Obama

are problems they are going to have with the Democratic Party, in general.

the party is to the right of the nation.

this isn't accidental.

[walkingman]

10. I appreciate Obama's efforts

but I consider him much more moderate than I originally expected. He deserves credit for highlighting the heath-care problem we have in this country (the GOP doesn't even consider it an issue) and also the immigration issue. However, I am not sure his policies are based on principal versus "anything is better than nothing" attitude. I totally am against his drone policy and his willingness to cut SS.

At this point I definitely think of him as far better than any of his Presidential opponents but I think most progressives are disappointed in the last 6 years.

I am just not sure a progressive can get elected these days but am bewildered how the GOP can win any election of any kind - what a mess we find ourselves in.

Peace

[cali]

16. Welcome to DU.

Good first post!

[gopiscrap]

35. welcome to DU

[calimary]

45. Welcome to DU, walkingman!

Glad you're here! I agree! I wish he was more progressive. Hell, I wish all our Dems were more progressive. But you dance with what there is.

I posted here awhile back about one of my favorite lines from a movie - in this case, "The Competition," which came out in 1980 and starred Amy Irving, Richard Dreyfuss, and the late Lee Remick. Irving and Dreyfuss were young (at the time much younger) finalists in this big-ass international piano competition. He'd come close the year before but she was new to it. Her teacher and mentor was the gorgeous and luminous Lee Remick. Toward the end (spoiler alert) she wins, but is not celebrating because she's afraid it marks the end of the love affair that started between her character and Richard Dreyfuss's character. The party was in the other room and she's back behind closed doors, moping in solitary. Lee Remick finds her and scolds - "it's going to take at least another 100 years for Mother Nature to evolve the kind of man you have in mind. In the meantime, GET OUT THERE AND DANCE WITH WHAT THERE IS!!!!"

I've just never been able to put that quote out of my mind. It was so astoundingly relevant and full of wisdom!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. I could vote for Warren.

As opposed to the usual "not as bad" candidate.

[Progressive dog]

20. K&R from a proud member of the 80% of Democrats

who approve of the job Obama is doing.

[Iliyah]

28. I do.

Judging from history of the USA, this President have endured nothing but "hatred" from mainly the opposing party and their base alongwith paid for media by the 1-2%ers and non fucking journalist.

He have to work with non functional congresscritters who don't give a damn about America nor her people, especially the house majority who's main work order is for the rich and thats it.

I'm part of the 80 and proud of it.

[truedelphi]

22. Do the actual statistics -

Since only 80% of 36% of the population falls into the pro-Obama demographic that you speak of, your headline is rather meaningless.

(That is when pollsters find 36% of all Americans feeling themselves to be loyalists to all things Dem leadership.)

Even with a higher number of Dems, 80% of 42% is not a majority.

Obama won in 2008 because people with R's after their name voted for him. Indies voted for him.

And he won again because he ran against a man whose principle views were the same on many major issues, except for Rmoney wanting women to step back into the 15th century.

Most people in this country are sick of the leadership in both parties. And the reason for that is they can clearly see that Big Money is running the political show in those parties.

[Drunken Irishman]

23. Well they're not meaningless...

Because I am talking about the primary, not the general. The general is a whole different ballgame and frankly, a progressive there will have a far harder time winning than in their primary.

[zeemike]

39. And the "love" part is misleading too

As if all democrats were in a fan club...But perhaps some of them are.

And I am one of them that is sick of the leadership of our party system and the control of it by big money, but don't interpret that to mean I hate Obama...there is o dichotomy of you ether love him or hate him in my thinking...that kind of shit is for the Tea Party.

[cali]

42. Cults of personality are sick and dangerous. Sad to see it.

[Iliyah]

25. K & R

and its proof which means a hell of a lot in our modern fascination are with numbers, i.e. %, ratings and polls.

I remember years ago my grandfather's best friends told us that we as a society will be judged by numbers instead of social events, true dat!

Who dat, go Saints!

[samplegirl]

27. I still support him!

Cause we all know that our lives would of been so much better with Romney!

[blkmusclmachine]

36. BHO is an '80s Republican. Glad you like 80s GOP. Bet you'll like 90s GOP, too, especially in

comparison to today's lunatic GOP. So go ahead and keep voting for the Democratic right, soon the DEM Party apparatus will find their wanna-be nutter, and the remaining so-called "Democrats" will be applauding him (or her), because the GOP "alternative" will be "so much worse." (Not really, but the DEM cheerleaders/apologists will try to dupe everybody into believing that lie.) Scared yet?!?!

[Coyotl]

29. D'oh! Add country and world.

[blkmusclmachine]

30. 80%, huh? Proof that too many moderate Republicans have infiltrated the DEM Party. I was out on BHO

in 2012. I'm fully out on HRC for 2016 or any other year. I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship to a Progressive/Liberal Party, cuz the Democrats sure aren't it!!!

[blue neen]

46. "I was out on BHO in 2012".

So, you're saying that you didn't vote for the Democratic nominee for President in 2012.

Okay.

[99Forever]

32. Pot, meet kettle.

"Don't be so sure you're advocating a majority opinion."


Indeed.

[fadedrose]

34. I don't think Warren would go along with that

She's only going to be rough on a moderate who loves corporations. And I agree with you. No matter what goes wrong, I still love him.

I have hope.

[LibGranny]

37. Still like him - don't always agree

with what he does but he is FAR BETTER than the alternative, i.e., rethugs!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. "Obama's approval, according to Gallup, is 80% with Democrats."

Gallup had Romney winning 49%-48%.

I'm just throwin' that out there too.

[Drunken Irishman]

40. Very true...it might be higher. Maybe 90%.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

47. Or not accurate at all.

[woo me with science]

48. How predictable.

It's all about "loving Obama."

Never a mention of policy in any of these posts. Never a mention of the TPP, or chained CPI, or any policies, for that matter. There is never an argument to select a candidate based on policy agenda at all.

It's all about "hating" and "loving," because corporate Democrats don't dare go to what their candidates actually represent.

[cali]

49. that's for sure

and they aren't too solid on facts either.

Just cult of personality stuff.

[solarhydrocan]

62. +++! Excellent post. who or what is responsible, and has it always been this way?

Personality > policy. Kind of like High School!!

To say "I Love (a Politician)" is more than a bit creepy. They are employees.

[laundry_queen]

67. Exactly. nt

[gollygee]

50. I'm happy with Obama

Yes, I wish he were more liberal! I always wish every politician was more liberal. But he's done some good, and would have done a lot more with an even slightly cooperative Congress.

I would LOVE Warren to run (and win!) I don't see her as anti-Obama. I see her as a good progressive candidate who would kick ass. I wish Obama had kicked more ass. Let's work on 2014 so he can do more, and then by all means, Warren 2016!

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. Warren is not going to run against Hillary...

[gollygee]

52. There are a couple of years

We'll have to see how things pan out, and who is in the race then. I can certainly imagine her deciding to sit out if Hillary is as popular in two years as she is now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. it is not going to happen...

right now Hillary has EVERYTHING in her favor...far more than ANY woman ever has....NO Democratic woman will run against her...period..or run the risk of NO woman winning...
The only way for Warren to get it is if Hillary doesn't....and the chances of that are slim to none...

[gollygee]

56. I don't honestly care what you think

unless you have some special powers that allow you to actually see the future. It is a strong possibility that Hillary Clinton will run, and there is also a reasonably good chance that Warren will sit out if Clinton runs. But you don't know what is or is not going to happen. Two years is a pretty long time and stuff happens.

I will vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination, but if there were a choice between the two, I'd vote for Warren. (Though I do agree that it's not particularly likely that would happen.)

[djean111]

53. What is the fixation on "loving Obama"?

He is not going to run again.
All that is relevant is what he does between now and the end of his term.
Why on earth the need to love him or even just like him? Truly do not understand - he is just a politician, like all the others.

Every once in a while the call to love him, or whatever, makes me think OMG! do his followers think if he gets enough admiration, there will be a call for a third term? Are we being set up to contribute to the inevitable library?

A puzzlement indeed.

[Drunken Irishman]

58. Love? No. But he's the President. His supporters make up a huge amount of the party...

It's likely they will decide who wins the nomination. If you guys want to keep pissing on us as inconsequential, you're doing it at the risk of your ideals.

[djean111]

59. Do you really think the DNC gives a flying fuck if some Democrats do not like Obama?

They don't.
My ideals are not at risk in the least - they certainly would be, though, if I fell into the "we adore everything Obama does" lockstep.

[Drunken Irishman]

61. Because that's what I said, right?

I really don't give a rat's ass if you care what the DNC thinks. Why would Obama supporters want to vote for a candidate whose supporters do nothing but vilify him? Your ideals don't mean shit if you can't get someone into office who shares 'em. A lot of the divisiveness here, and among many liberal bloggers, toward the President is absolutely going to turn off crucial voters YOU NEED TO WIN.

If you don't care about winning, fine. But then don't pretend you have many values. Because it would be clear you don't.

[polichick]

57. He's very likeable.

[LWolf]

60. I advocate for my position.

It's almost never a majority in any group.

That doesn't mean I shut up and get in line. It's simply not going to happen.

In my half a century + of experience, I haven't found the majority opinion on so many things to be necessarily well-informed or correct.

Obama? I don't love him. I never did. I always saw him pretty damned clearly. Obama and his administration have accomplished this with me: I'm more determined than ever not to support any neo-liberal Democrat. The majority of the Democratic Party, if they feel differently, can do whatever without me. I've been under the Democratic bus for a very long time. I don't really expect any differently.

Warren? If she runs, I'll probably be behind her, unless someone even better steps into the ring. My opinion of Obama has nothing to do with it; he's not running in '16.

[polichick]

63. "Obama and his administration have accomplished this with me:

I'm more determined than ever not to support any neo-liberal Democrat."


This administration has had that effect on a lot of Dems. It's almost as if people have concluded that if even a smart, likeable Democrat like Obama is more corporate partner than people's president, we're shit out of luck.

[LWolf]

68. Yes, and

it's about time.

[IrishAyes]

64. I've always been proud to be an enthusiastic Obama supporter,

even when he was so new to the national field that I had to explain who he was to the tv station in the next real town 50 miles away. I knew he'd be president when he gave that Democratic Convention keynote address.

[libdem4life]

65. We should not be tearing down anyone in the party because there just aren't that many any more

who are willing or able to not have a day job for three years of campaigning, get their wife/husband to come along and be politically correct as well and do press interviews, uproot their family indefinitely, financially support all of this until the donor checks start coming in, wait until 2014 to start, commit to raising a billion dollars, satisfying a picky party, then convince 50 million people to vote to elect him/her president, and think that is possible without some corporate help.

And we wonder why Progressives aren't showing up? Especially when supporting the President is even considered a viable and debatable question. Wonder why Elizabeth Warren may not be chomping at the bit to take a 3-year break from being a Senator while successfully taking the terrified Fat Cats to task? Check out the threads on the evils of corporate donations, just for starters. She's an economist. She understands the fundamentals and the realities. So do any other potential candidates.

There is no Financial Fairy. From whom will these funds emerge, when and how?

[cali]

69. Of course there's a need for corporate "help". The system has

ensured that. Just look at Citizen's United.

But it is possible to raise funds outside of corporations as well. See Howard Dean.

[Logical]

70. Here is what you are missing....

If a pollster called me I would say I liked Obama because I want dems to look good, but Obama has been a huge disappointment. Potential not realized.

[Laelth]

71. You raise a good point.

The big question is this: who inherits the Obama fundraising machine?

Noam Scheiber, in his recent New Republic essay, shows that there are now two, competitive fundraising machines in the Democratic Party. One is controlled by the Clintons. The other was shut out by the Clintons, formed around the candidacy of John Kerry, and was inherited by Obama. These days, the Obama machine is dominant, but the Clinton machine is still very strong.

Quite obviously, if Hillary runs, she has her own fundraising machine as a base from which to work. To whom the Obama machine throws its support is the real question.

It's not that I need to worry about whether Elizabeth Warren can get votes. She has no problem doing that. She's already the third-best fundraiser in the Democratic Party (behind Obama and Hillary Clinton), but somebody is going to inherit Obama's fundraising apparatus. Elizabeth Warren could greatly benefit from that (and, I would argue, so would the American people).

-Laelth