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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » American Thanksgiving - l...

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:49 PM

jazzimov (1,456 posts)

American Thanksgiving - let me get this straight...

OK, so we celebrate that the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. They were "driven out" because of their heretical Religious Beliefs (which would be considered heretical by most Christians today - indeed, most of Americans today).

These were just average people who had been told of a "promised land", and of those who did not die on the journey most of the survivors died during the first winter. Because they weren't prepared.

So, the Native people - the Wampanoag - took pity on them and taught them how to plant and how not to just survive, but to thrive!

Then, rather than thank the Wampanoag who basically saved their lives, they thanked God for sending the heathen Wampanoag to save them. They invited the Wampanoag to their feast, who graciously accepted the invitation.

And then, the Pilgrims killed the Wampanoag - who took pity on them and saved their lives - in order to take their land.

Have I got that right? Is that what we're celebrating?

Personally, I'd rather celebrate the Wampanoag.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply American Thanksgiving - let me get this straight... (Original post)
 jazzimov Nov 2013 OP
LineReply It's just as bad as Columbus Day, really. (nt)
 Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #1
LineLineReply Oh Lord
 yeoman6987 Nov 2013 #29
LineLineLineReply How ironic. nt
 LWolf Nov 2013 #44
LineLineLineReply You don't know much about Columbus, do you? /nt
 Marr Nov 2013 #56
LineLineLineNew Reply Can't be quite as embarrassing as not knowing which version of your/you're to use.
 EOTE Nov 2013 #69
LineLineLineNew Reply Columbus was a murderous slave trader.
 piratefish08 Nov 2013 #70
LineReply You could get in a lot of trouble for telling these
 jaysunb Nov 2013 #2
LineLineReply For real.
 Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #36
LineReply And people wonder why often liberals ...
 earthside Nov 2013 #3
LineLineReply +1000.
 reformist2 Nov 2013 #41
LineReply Not exactly right
 William769 Nov 2013 #4
LineLineReply That's what I wondered
 treestar Nov 2013 #54
LineReply Worst part ...
 JoePhilly Nov 2013 #5
LineReply Yet people howl about stores being open on Thanksgiving
 Dreamer Tatum Nov 2013 #6
LineReply I think that via the mechanism of acculturation, pretty much every society will collectively celebra
 LanternWaste Nov 2013 #7
LineLineReply Wait...You mean I wasn't dressing up as a NASA astronaut (my favorite costume)
 ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #12
LineLineLineReply And I didn't dress up as a Indiana Jones (still my favorite costume) and drink a wee bit too much...
 LanternWaste Nov 2013 #14
LineReply you missed a couple of parts
 d_r Nov 2013 #8
LineLineReply I did not know that. However, I celebrate the myth of Wampanoag generosity.
 freshwest Nov 2013 #15
LineLineLineReply I don't think the generosity of the Wampanoag
 d_r Nov 2013 #16
LineLineLineLineReply Ah, I didn't mean that. I meant a day of peaceful celebration. And doubtless much embellished by the
 freshwest Nov 2013 #19
LineLineLineLineLineReply Pocahontas, though, is sort of a success story
 hfojvt Nov 2013 #23
LineLineLineLineLineReply The Virginia colony was a little different in intent.
 Benton D Struckcheon Nov 2013 #28
LineLineLineLineReply The word "myth" can have a much deeper meaning
 Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #52
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply got it
 d_r Nov 2013 #62
LineLineLineReply A holiday when one can hope to be off work with friends and family is just fine with me.
 goldent Nov 2013 #33
LineLineReply And it was mainly the Puritans, not the Pilgrims, who turned on the Native Americans
 starroute Nov 2013 #17
LineReply A lot messier than that.
 Igel Nov 2013 #9
LineLineReply I agree; the people of that time did not understand infection
 treestar Nov 2013 #55
LineReply They thanked the Native Americans by giving them blankets
 Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #10
LineLineReply No they didn't.
 former9thward Nov 2013 #18
LineLineNew Reply Pilgrims did not do that.
 RebelOne Nov 2013 #65
LineLineNew Reply The pilgrims did that?
 Dorian Gray Nov 2013 #71
LineReply I pay the historical context no mind.
 alphafemale Nov 2013 #11
LineLineReply Being Thankful & Gathering With Loved Ones Does Not Require A Holiday
 HangOnKids Nov 2013 #34
LineLineLineReply WTF is wrong with a holiday?
 Egnever Nov 2013 #37
LineLineLineReply You're right in one thing...
 pipi_k Nov 2013 #50
LineReply And karma has punished us
 Blue_Tires Nov 2013 #13
LineReply Circle of Violence
 JCMach1 Nov 2013 #20
LineLineReply I'm reading "The Barbarous Years" right now
 Recursion Nov 2013 #26
LineLineReply For me, it's a complicated mess how I feel about the history...
 JCMach1 Nov 2013 #31
LineReply I prefer to celebrate this version of Thanksgiving!
 csziggy Nov 2013 #21
LineLineReply Me too
 LiberalEsto Nov 2013 #24
LineReply No, you don't have that right
 Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #22
LineLineReply If you want to tell someone they are wrong please post some facts as to why
 HangOnKids Nov 2013 #35
LineLineLineReply Try this site
 Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #40
LineReply Not really
 Recursion Nov 2013 #25
LineReply No one leaves a country over religion. It had to be over money. That's the only reason. nt
 valerief Nov 2013 #27
LineLineReply Sure they do.
 Mariana Nov 2013 #38
LineLineLineReply You're right!!! Ha! But not en masse. No matter what the lip service is, "groups of people" migrate
 valerief Nov 2013 #61
LineLineReply IDK. Sarah Vowell's book "Wordy Shipmates" was a pretty good exploration of why they left
 Recursion Nov 2013 #48
LineReply Take an Indian to lunch this week! I think Stan Freburg got the facts down truthfully....
 DreamGypsy Nov 2013 #30
LineReply It was America's first welfare line
 RobertEarl Nov 2013 #32
LineReply Boycott Thanksgiving, boycott Thanksgiving!
 davidpdx Nov 2013 #39
LineReply So go ahead and celebrate them...
 Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #42
LineLineReply A review of this thread shows how
 Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #43
LineReply I'm reading Nathaniel Philbrick's book "Mayflower"
 Tanuki Nov 2013 #45
LineReply Modern Thanksgiving has fuck-all to do with history.
 Codeine Nov 2013 #46
LineLineReply You were good until that last word...
 Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #60
LineReply It is my least favorite holiday - and my family
 TBF Nov 2013 #47
LineReply Nah, I celebrate food.
 Le Taz Hot Nov 2013 #49
LineReply Meh...
 pipi_k Nov 2013 #51
LineReply the white folks
 FatBuddy Nov 2013 #53
LineReply They had religious Freedom in Amsterdam
 One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #57
LineReply Does anybody even notice the OP did a drive by?
 snooper2 Nov 2013 #58
LineLineNew Reply Because I was drinking when I posted it
 jazzimov Nov 2013 #63
LineReply Our Family
 Robyn66 Nov 2013 #59
LineNew Reply That's just silly
 Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #64
LineLineNew Reply Things have come a long way...
 pipi_k Nov 2013 #67
LineNew Reply No. We celebrate the Harvest, thanking mother earth, father sky, god
 uppityperson Nov 2013 #66
LineNew Reply You really think that is what I am celebrating with my family on Thanksgiving? nt.
 NCTraveler Nov 2013 #68

Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:51 PM

Nye Bevan (25,406 posts)

1. It's just as bad as Columbus Day, really. (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 10:13 PM

yeoman6987 (14,449 posts)

29. Oh Lord

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an education. Your embarrassing yourself and I say that as a person who cares about all people on DU.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 08:53 AM

LWolf (46,179 posts)

44. How ironic. nt

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

Marr (20,317 posts)

56. You don't know much about Columbus, do you? /nt

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:08 PM

EOTE (13,409 posts)

69. Can't be quite as embarrassing as not knowing which version of your/you're to use.

And I'm not quite so sure why holidays celebrating genocide are good things.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:10 PM

piratefish08 (3,133 posts)

70. Columbus was a murderous slave trader.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:52 PM

jaysunb (11,856 posts)

2. You could get in a lot of trouble for telling these

kind of truths....careful.

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Response to jaysunb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:17 AM

Jamaal510 (10,893 posts)

36. For real.

This is slightly OT, but I actually had some problems a while ago here when I posted an article about what Lincoln said and how he really felt about Black folks. The article gave his exact quotes regarding how he openly felt that Blacks are inferior, and how he said he wanted to outlaw slavery mainly to preserve the Union. There was some pretty ugly history that I found out about with America's supposed "Founding Fathers" once I took a course in African American studies at my old school. And don't even get me started on how some of our first few Presidents were slave owners...

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:56 PM

earthside (6,960 posts)

3. And people wonder why often liberals ...

... are perceived as killjoys.

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Response to earthside (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 08:01 AM

reformist2 (9,841 posts)

41. +1000.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:56 PM

Star Member William769 (53,778 posts)

4. Not exactly right

The peace lasted 50 years before things went to hell in a hand basket.

Can't blame the original pilgrims for that (I doubt any were left by then).

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Response to William769 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:08 AM

Star Member treestar (82,106 posts)

54. That's what I wondered

OP makes it sound like the Pilgrims went and killed the Native Americans the next day.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:57 PM

JoePhilly (27,787 posts)

5. Worst part ...

If the events transpired in some other fashion, most of those reading this, would have never been born.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:58 PM

Dreamer Tatum (10,925 posts)

6. Yet people howl about stores being open on Thanksgiving

makes no sense.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:02 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

7. I think that via the mechanism of acculturation, pretty much every society will collectively celebra

 

Let's be honest... if we ask ten different people what they're celebrating on any given holiday, we'll most likely receive eleven different answers. But I don't really believe any rational person will celebrate Thanksgiving to commemorate killing Amerindians-- I think the rank and file will celebrate simply because we're together with friends and family, have a few days off from work, and maybe watch a game.

"Have I got that right? Is that what we're celebrating?""
No more than when we hit the local costume parties on Halloween because we are remembering the dead, including saints, martyrs, and all the faithful departed believers; or celebrating the harvest and the coming of winter. I simply go to have fun...



Acculturation is a funny thing in that it prevents over time, high days and holy days from remaining static in both intent and in purpose.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:11 PM

ScreamingMeemie (68,918 posts)

12. Wait...You mean I wasn't dressing up as a NASA astronaut (my favorite costume)

as a kid to scare off evil spirits??

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:24 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

14. And I didn't dress up as a Indiana Jones (still my favorite costume) and drink a wee bit too much...

 

And I didn't dress up as a Indiana Jones (still my favorite costume) and drink a wee bit too much last month to commemorate fallen saints...

750 years ago though...? Your Astronaut and my Indy would have either gotten us sainted or (more likely) burned (and then we'd have high holy days named after us!!! ("The Celebration of Screaming Waste" or Lantern Meemie? I can dig it!), and we'd be forced to justify celebrating that.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:04 PM

d_r (6,895 posts)

8. you missed a couple of parts

the pilgrims landed in 1620. The Spaniards had introduced European diseases such as small pox and other diseases more than a century earlier. There had also been English fishermen off the coast of what is now the NE US who had traded with the Native Americans living there. Squanto hitched a ride with them to England, then tried to come back but was captured and taken to Spain to be sold as a slave, but he made it back to England. Squanto returned to the new world, and went back to where his old village was. The village was empty because everyone had been wiped out by diseases brought by the Europeans. So when the pilgrims landed, they had the help of English-speaking Squanto and a whole empty village of buildings and cleared fields for planting corn. They also had lots of graves to rob for further equipment.

The pilgrims and Wampanoag signed a peace treaty in 1620 that worked pretty well for the next 50 years or so. The Wampanoags were killed or sold in to slavery in the late 1670s during King Philip's war. The colonists got a chuck taken out of their hide also.

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Response to d_r (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:50 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

15. I did not know that. However, I celebrate the myth of Wampanoag generosity.

For most, it's a celebration that is intertwined with the fall bringing in of the harvest, after a spring and summer of labor and hope to survive the winter. And now it's just a holiday when one can hope to be off work with friends and family.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:52 PM

d_r (6,895 posts)

16. I don't think the generosity of the Wampanoag

was a myth. I think they did help the pilgrims survive.

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Response to d_r (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:09 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

19. Ah, I didn't mean that. I meant a day of peaceful celebration. And doubtless much embellished by the

Americans to be, as they were still subjects of the Crown. The OP is pointing out that they didn't fare well under colonization, which most or all did not do well as the cultures met.

Despite a cherished and celebrated vision, they failed to merge, which would have been my preference. I have often thought how much different America and the world would be if settlers had shown respect to the way the natives did things.

My kid was upset seeing some of the stories like Pochontas as a child, and said something to the effect of why did Europeans come here and do bad things?

I had to remind him that they were either here to make money, survive or whatever, and there was no way for them to do it in Europe anymore. And that they are our ancestors, so it does no good to hate them.

What a waste, though.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:37 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

23. Pocahontas, though, is sort of a success story

she married an Englishman, went over to England, where she was adored by the nobles, but died at a very young age from smallpox. Not, however, before giving birth to a son, and thereby having hundreds of thousands of white descendants.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 10:09 PM

Benton D Struckcheon (2,347 posts)

28. The Virginia colony was a little different in intent.

They were there looking for gold. Remember, the Spanish had found fabulous amounts of gold & silver in Mexico and Peru. The English were, at the time Virginia was first settled, hoping to run into the same thing. They were adventurers, and probably as ruthless as the conquistadores.
The Pilgrims up in Massachussetts were a different kettle of fish altogether.

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Response to d_r (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 10:54 AM

Jackpine Radical (45,274 posts)

52. The word "myth" can have a much deeper meaning

than just "untrue story."

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:33 PM

d_r (6,895 posts)

62. got it

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Response to freshwest (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:04 AM

goldent (1,582 posts)

33. A holiday when one can hope to be off work with friends and family is just fine with me.

I love Thanksgiving.

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Response to d_r (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:55 PM

starroute (12,977 posts)

17. And it was mainly the Puritans, not the Pilgrims, who turned on the Native Americans

The Pilgrims were a lot wackier than the more mainstream Puritans who started showing up a few years later and got along a lot better with the locals. That's why Roger Williams went to that area when he got kicked out of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and founded Rhode Island. But once the war broke out, relationships deteriorated pretty quickly all the way around.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:04 PM

Igel (34,113 posts)

9. A lot messier than that.

And while the Wampanoag ultimately lost their land, much of it happened as the result of disease prior to the Pilgrims' arrival and other Indians' depredation.

Fighting between the Wamponoag and the Pilgrims, not so much.

As with a lot of things--"smallpox infected blankets", for example--the truth isn't nearly as bad as some need it to be. And in some cases the truth is pretty much lacking in the alternative accounts.

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:11 AM

Star Member treestar (82,106 posts)

55. I agree; the people of that time did not understand infection

Why the need to insist it was done on purpose?

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:05 PM

Vashta Nerada (3,922 posts)

10. They thanked the Native Americans by giving them blankets

 

infected with smallpox.

Thanksgiving is a horrible "holiday".

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:04 PM

Star Member former9thward (29,991 posts)

18. No they didn't.

Fake 'history' thrives on the internet.

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:46 PM

RebelOne (30,947 posts)

65. Pilgrims did not do that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt

On June 29, 1763, a week after the siege began, Bouquet was preparing to lead an expedition to relieve Fort Pitt when he received a letter from Amherst making the following proposal: "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them." [1]

Bouquet agreed, writing back to Amherst on July 13, 1763: "I will try to inoculate the bastards with some blankets that may fall into their hands, and take care not to get the disease myself." Amherst responded favorably on July 16, 1763: "You will do well to inoculate the Indians by means of blankets, as well as every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race."[2]

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:38 PM

Star Member Dorian Gray (13,214 posts)

71. The pilgrims did that?

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:10 PM

Star Member alphafemale (18,497 posts)

11. I pay the historical context no mind.

 

Being thankful and gathering with loved ones to feast is not a bad thing though.

Not to mention the giant Snoopy balloon.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:05 AM

HangOnKids (4,291 posts)

34. Being Thankful & Gathering With Loved Ones Does Not Require A Holiday

 

But carry on.....

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:55 AM

Egnever (21,506 posts)

37. WTF is wrong with a holiday?

 

You got some kind of crusade against holidays?

And despite your flippant response yes gathering with loved ones does require a holiday for many.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 10:48 AM

pipi_k (21,020 posts)

50. You're right in one thing...

it doesn't...or shouldn't...require a holiday.

But it's a whole lot easier to accomplish when a majority of people have the day off.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 08:13 PM

Blue_Tires (55,445 posts)

13. And karma has punished us

by infecting our airwaves with Dallas Cowboy SCUM ever since...

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:14 PM

Star Member JCMach1 (27,400 posts)

20. Circle of Violence

I am descended from John 'the Martyr' Rogers who was the intellectual father of the 'Pilgrim' movement... He was burned at the stake for heresy by Queen Mary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rogers_%28Bible_editor_and_martyr%29

His descendants helped form the Pilgrims in their exile in the Netherlands and eventually sailed with the Mayflower.

My ancestors didn't stay with the Colony long and left for Long Island when that colony opened-up.

It seems pretty damn rare that people actually learn any true lessons from violence and persecution.

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:54 PM

Star Member Recursion (56,566 posts)

26. I'm reading "The Barbarous Years" right now

The Separatist exodus to Long Island was a fascinating piece of the story that I had never heard of before.

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:43 AM

Star Member JCMach1 (27,400 posts)

31. For me, it's a complicated mess how I feel about the history...

I had ancestors at both Plymouth and Jamestown and also Chowans, Tuscarorans, Nottoway, and Cherokee... all virtually wiped off the map by the Settlers...

Thanksgiving for me is just a time to reflect on that complicated history, feast, and enjoy the time with my family...

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:18 PM

Star Member csziggy (34,018 posts)

21. I prefer to celebrate this version of Thanksgiving!

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Response to csziggy (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:50 PM

LiberalEsto (22,845 posts)

24. Me too

 

but for some reason my family members never want to cooperate

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:26 PM

Boom Sound 416 (4,185 posts)

22. No, you don't have that right

 

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:07 AM

HangOnKids (4,291 posts)

35. If you want to tell someone they are wrong please post some facts as to why

 

Thanks!

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #35)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 07:57 AM

Boom Sound 416 (4,185 posts)

40. Try this site

 

www.google.com

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:53 PM

Star Member Recursion (56,566 posts)

25. Not really

They landed at an abandoned village because something like 90% of New England's Native American population had died over the preceding 2 decades because of disease and war. They then joined an already-in-progress genocidal war against the Pequot and Wampanoag on the side of the Narragansett.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:55 PM

valerief (53,235 posts)

27. No one leaves a country over religion. It had to be over money. That's the only reason. nt

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Response to Mariana (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 01:31 PM

valerief (53,235 posts)

61. You're right!!! Ha! But not en masse. No matter what the lip service is, "groups of people" migrate

for basic needs, not religion.

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Response to valerief (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 09:36 AM

Star Member Recursion (56,566 posts)

48. IDK. Sarah Vowell's book "Wordy Shipmates" was a pretty good exploration of why they left

And, really, it was about religion.

"The Barbarous Years" is a good one too, though it has a more conservative (with a small "c" perspective.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 12:49 AM

DreamGypsy (2,252 posts)

30. Take an Indian to lunch this week! I think Stan Freburg got the facts down truthfully....

...and politically correct. Afterall...WE CAME OVER ON THE MAYFLOWER!

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:59 AM

RobertEarl (13,685 posts)

32. It was America's first welfare line

 

When the whites lined up to eat what the Natives had brought.

You can just imagine the descendents are thinking: Why no immigration policy of closed borders?

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 04:13 AM

davidpdx (22,000 posts)

39. Boycott Thanksgiving, boycott Thanksgiving!

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 08:23 AM

Decaffeinated (556 posts)

42. So go ahead and celebrate them...

 

Where it gets smug and condescending is when you try and ruin it for everyone else...

You got a Columbus day speech prepared? Maybe something about how Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th of December? How about the true racist origins of St. Patrick's day?

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 08:32 AM

Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)

43. A review of this thread shows how

even those who attempt to correct agenda driven history tend to do little more than spin new myths to support their own agendas.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 09:07 AM

Star Member Tanuki (14,733 posts)

45. I'm reading Nathaniel Philbrick's book "Mayflower"

and recommend it to those who want to learn more about this era (from the planning of the trip by the British religious expatriates in Leiden, through the founding of the Plymouth colony, up to
King Philip's War).
http://www.amazon.com/Mayflower-Story-Courage-Community-War/dp/0143111973/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385039048&sr=8-1&keywords=the+mayflower+book

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 09:08 AM

Star Member Codeine (25,586 posts)

46. Modern Thanksgiving has fuck-all to do with history.

 

It's become an almost entirely context-free celebration of family and friendship, which I think is pretty awesome. Hands-down my favorite holiday.

Bring on the Tofurkey!

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Response to Codeine (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:30 AM

Decaffeinated (556 posts)

60. You were good until that last word...

 

Monster...*tsk tsk tsk*

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 09:12 AM

TBF (31,869 posts)

47. It is my least favorite holiday - and my family

is descended from one of those Puritans.

I move right along from Halloween to Christmas. It's not because I enjoy the commercialism of Christmas, because I don't, but I do love the decorations, cookies (yum!), and people being in a generally better mood

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 09:37 AM

Le Taz Hot (22,271 posts)

49. Nah, I celebrate food.

Cooking it and eating it. That's pretty much it.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 10:53 AM

pipi_k (21,020 posts)

51. Meh...

I celebrate Thanksgiving because it's the one day of the year we can eat 6,000,000 calories and they don't count.


Hey. It's MY myth and I'm sticking to it.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:06 AM

FatBuddy (376 posts)

53. the white folks

 

saw the indigenous peoples as godless savages and heathens. less than human.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:13 AM

One_Life_To_Give (6,036 posts)

57. They had religious Freedom in Amsterdam

The Pilgrims didn't come here just for religious freedom. Only half of them had been living in Amsterdam because of legal troubles over religion. The other half were recruited by the investors to make the group large enough to be viable.

Bottom line they all undertook the voyage for the opportunity to own 100 acres. Something they knew to be impossible for themselves by remaining in Europe.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:18 AM

snooper2 (30,151 posts)

58. Does anybody even notice the OP did a drive by?

 

Wrote some misinformed drivel guaranteed to rile some folks up then sits back and watches LOL


People fall for it every time...

Then somebody like myself has to come along and actually make the whole thread worthwhile to exist on the Intertubes-

Here we go!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:43 PM

jazzimov (1,456 posts)

63. Because I was drinking when I posted it

but I appreciate all the comments and the corrections.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 11:21 AM

Robyn66 (1,675 posts)

59. Our Family

Celebrates Thanksgiving to be thankful about being alive and together. We have had a lot of scary times and lost a lot of people over the last 20 years so we take time to remember and visit with people we don't ordinarily have time to see.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:45 PM

Capt. Obvious (9,002 posts)

64. That's just silly

It's to celebrate gluttony and football.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:54 PM

pipi_k (21,020 posts)

67. Things have come a long way...

from when the Plymouth Pilgrims football team played their first game with a pumpkin and the vendors sold squirrel hotdogs in the stands...

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:48 PM

Star Member uppityperson (115,576 posts)

66. No. We celebrate the Harvest, thanking mother earth, father sky, god

We thank mother earth and father sky for the food they give us, and god for making mother earth and father sky. In the words of my 4 yr old back when was asked about this holiday.

Many cultures have a Harvest Festival and we do too. Those who try and say it is about the Pilgrims and Indians are trying to co-opt another established festival. THEY may say that is why they celebrate, but the roots are much older and deeper than that.

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Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 03:02 PM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

68. You really think that is what I am celebrating with my family on Thanksgiving? nt.

 

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