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Butch McQueen

(43 posts)
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:46 PM Nov 2013

I Can't Figure Out How Anyone In The 80% Could Be Right Wing

Is it a fear driven inability to acknowledge the precarious nature of their own security? "It will never happen to me" narcissism? Just plain old being dumb? I just can't get my mind around it!

I have an elderly (mid 70s) acquaintance who is constantly posting right wing themed bumper stickers on her facebook page (No Work, No Eat... that kind of crap) and I frequently have advised her to be careful what she wishes for. She has a daughter who because of health issues hasn't worked in years. Her daughter receives a disability check, food stamps, rent assistance, and has had Medicaid and state programs pay for what is easily over $1,000,000 in costs for medical needs over the last couple of years. When I remind her that her daughter would literally be dead if it weren't for these "welfare" programs she tells me "oh no I'm not talking about people like her"! I've tried and tried to explain that the people trying to reduce or eliminate all these programs are talking about people exactly like her daughter it falls on deaf ears. I ran into her a couple days ago and she was complaining about the fact her daughter's food stamp benefit was being reduced. Rather than say "I told you so" I once again tried to draw the causality between right wing viewpoints and her daughter's situation - which proved to be a waste of time.

I have a friend who is in his 60s who is on Medicare. He has had coronary by-pass surgery twice. He despises "Obamacare" with every breath he draws. He refuses to understand that the ACA isn't about "free" healthcare, it is insurance. I ask him what he would do if Medicare was reduced or eliminated. He says "I'd get back all the taxes I've paid and buy a private insurance policy"! I can not make him understand that, A: Without the ACA his pre-existing condition would guarantee no insurer would ever touch him with a 10 foot pole. And B: Without Medicare he would be up the creek because even if he could get insurance the policy would cost tens of thousands a month. His only response is to repeat the mantra of "the government is bad".

I have another friend who is in his 40s. He was raised in a single parent home by an alcoholic mother. Without "welfare" the family would have been living under a bridge somewhere. He has a daughter who is a single mother raising five children, without "welfare" they would be living under a bridge somewhere. He is employed in a very cyclic industry where periodic layoffs are a fact of life, so he himself has benefited from unemployment and food stamps. In spite of all this he is a total "Dittos Rush" right wind zealot. When I point out to him how many times "welfare: has saved 3 generations of his family all I hear back is the "I pay taxes I've earned those things". Being persistent, I actually start running the numbers... what he has paid in taxes vs what 3 generations of his family has received and demonstrate that from a accounting perspective he is way in the red to society as a whole. His response, "If I hadn't had to pay the taxes in the first place I could have invested the money and become a millionaire"!

The sad thing is these people I've described and the attitudes they have are not a minority amongst my acquaintances, they are a large majority (maybe I need to start hanging out with a better class of people!). As my wife described it the other day, "Their being Republicans would be like African-Americans joining a pro-slavery group".

So, back to the original question... Are they scared, narcissistic, or just plain dumb?

thanks for tolerating my rant!

Butch



32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Can't Figure Out How Anyone In The 80% Could Be Right Wing (Original Post) Butch McQueen Nov 2013 OP
It's a rant lots of folks have made, although not as well as you. But, you really Hoyt Nov 2013 #1
Repugs specialize in propaganda elleng Nov 2013 #2
Welcome to DU, I see and hear this all the time. It amazes me so many people vote Thinkingabout Nov 2013 #3
But, using their 'logic', they are exceptional tsuki Nov 2013 #11
Thanks for the welcome! Butch McQueen Nov 2013 #13
There's plenty of right wingers on the DU Fumesucker Nov 2013 #29
Dumb. Really. Of course, the lack of critical thinking is cultivated via religion. valerief Nov 2013 #4
They're the 'just in case' folks... Tikki Nov 2013 #5
I've come to this conclusion as of late, scorpiogirl Nov 2013 #6
You partly answered the question by mentioning Rush... polichick Nov 2013 #7
Thanks! I never really thought of it in those terms Butch McQueen Nov 2013 #14
At least it's fun to think about. Welcome to DU! polichick Nov 2013 #17
To answer your question...........Yes abq e streeter Nov 2013 #8
I have no problem figuring it out. cali Nov 2013 #9
I'm guessing that you were not alive, or at least not old enough to know Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #10
Naw I'm a semi-old guy Butch McQueen Nov 2013 #16
Oops, I read your title as anyone in the '80s. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #24
Great question and someone once told me the beginning of great wisdom is asking great questions.. Vietnameravet Nov 2013 #12
God. NightWatcher Nov 2013 #15
Preacher and his/her church need to be taxed emsimon33 Nov 2013 #18
Well sometimes all 3 both and there is a 4th reason as well kydo Nov 2013 #19
Because Democrats / Liberals don't appeal to them, and in fact many look down on them AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #20
that last one is kidding himself treestar Nov 2013 #21
it's the authoritarian mind at work 0rganism Nov 2013 #22
+1 and thanks. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #25
It's an US and THEM mentality. There are problems in this country, huge debt and deficit, decreasing okaawhatever Nov 2013 #23
I Like Your Rant Butch McQueen Nov 2013 #32
Just plain dumb, but also ill-informed and lied to on a regular basis. stopbush Nov 2013 #26
Glad to see you on DU and your post is an accurrate observation. not a rant IMO Populist_Prole Nov 2013 #27
I don't understand why people think Obamacare... NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #28
Yea, I'm going to go directly with Shankapotomus Nov 2013 #30
They are scared, primarily, I think. Laelth Nov 2013 #31
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
1. It's a rant lots of folks have made, although not as well as you. But, you really
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:53 PM
Nov 2013

can't change a right winger. They feel entitled to whatever assistance they get, unlike those "other people." Folks like you describe are really sickening and depressing.

elleng

(130,147 posts)
2. Repugs specialize in propaganda
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:54 PM
Nov 2013

which misinforms, and they do it very well. They need, and obtain, an ignorant populace.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. Welcome to DU, I see and hear this all the time. It amazes me so many people vote
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:56 PM
Nov 2013

Against their best interest. The biggest excuse is because GOP candidates claim to be against abortion. Many are living from check to check, can't understand why their children can't get decent jobs to adequately provide for their children.

tsuki

(11,994 posts)
11. But, using their 'logic', they are exceptional
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:03 PM
Nov 2013

and these programs will continue for them. It is 'the others' that will get their comeuppance.

Butch McQueen

(43 posts)
13. Thanks for the welcome!
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:08 PM
Nov 2013

Outside my own home I'm surrounded by right wingers! I think I'm going to like it here

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
29. There's plenty of right wingers on the DU
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:54 AM
Nov 2013

The ones that last are a little smoother about it than most of your real life acquaintances but their basic ideology is similar. Just the other day I read a post here by a long timer advocating anyone who doesn't buy insurance should not get treated even at an ER.

That being said, DU is one of the better places online for the liberally minded to hang out.

Welcome..

valerief

(53,235 posts)
4. Dumb. Really. Of course, the lack of critical thinking is cultivated via religion.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:58 PM
Nov 2013

Couldn't be done without it. Once you believe the tenets of a major religion, you can swallow anything.

Tikki

(14,538 posts)
5. They're the 'just in case' folks...
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:58 PM
Nov 2013

Their vices are different than others…their failings are different than others…their beliefs are stronger than others.

Their knowledge is lacking and that is just fine because that makes them sure that 'just in case' the sky falls,
they win the lottery, jesus returns they will then be a 1%er, or surly at least a 20%er and that is that.


Tikki
I remember during the 2000 debates @ a round table interview of voters and a woman said boosh was
going to make her rich.

scorpiogirl

(717 posts)
6. I've come to this conclusion as of late,
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:59 PM
Nov 2013

They all think they're "special."

I'm so tired of their arrogance, fuck them!

polichick

(37,152 posts)
7. You partly answered the question by mentioning Rush...
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:00 PM
Nov 2013

imo there are a few things going on.

Since the 1970s right-wing think tanks have run a well-oiled and well-funded campaign to bend the thinking of Americans. Communication networks were purchased and propaganda has been flowing non-stop since.

Right-wingers are easy to target because they're often followers, fear-based and not very good at connecting dots (forgot what univ. did that study about how they do on standardized tests).

They have been taught to see themselves as part of a club and to think of others as THE OTHER (using an anthropology term). THE OTHER is a taker or immoral and threatens the good American life that the people in the club rightly deserve.

Butch McQueen

(43 posts)
14. Thanks! I never really thought of it in those terms
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:13 PM
Nov 2013

It is almost like this hypothetical "lazy bum on welfare" represents some kind of Jungian archetype in these people's psychology. I'm going to have to ponder that for awhile

Butch

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. I have no problem figuring it out.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:02 PM
Nov 2013

some people are just stupid. some people have had a perspective ingrained until its bone deep. some people are fastened to christianity in a less than healthy way, etc. Most often it's a combination of factors.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
10. I'm guessing that you were not alive, or at least not old enough to know
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:02 PM
Nov 2013

what was going on during that time.

Butch McQueen

(43 posts)
16. Naw I'm a semi-old guy
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:20 PM
Nov 2013

I'm 54 and have been trying to figure this out for years. It has almost become a philosophical quest to try to figure out if people (in general) are basically this... or that. I'd hate to end up becoming some old crank who says "the more I know about people the better I like my dog"! I'd like to think there is good somewhere in these folks I've described (and others like them) because the alternative is pretty depressing. As individuals they would (for the most part) give a real life stranger in need the proverbial "shirt off their back" but when it comes to politics and "welfare" they all turn into neanderthals! It really confuses me.

Butch

 

Vietnameravet

(1,085 posts)
12. Great question and someone once told me the beginning of great wisdom is asking great questions..
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:08 PM
Nov 2013

This very same question has vexed me for sometime,,I look forward to reading other's answers..

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
15. God.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:19 PM
Nov 2013

Some people are so motivated by what they think their religion wants them to do. Preachers have been manipulating people in the name of "Heaven" for a long time now.

Preacher says God hates gays, so they hate gays.
Preacher says God hates taxes (but loves your 10% tithe), so they hate taxes.
Preacher says God is a republican, so they vote republican

kydo

(2,679 posts)
19. Well sometimes all 3 both and there is a 4th reason as well
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:46 PM
Nov 2013

And some of them fall in all four categories while others maybe just one or a combination.

I think your post is representative of most people new to DU. It was one of my first posts , you know the "Why do people vote against their better interest?" type of post.

It's pretty baffling ain't it?

Sometimes it feels like you are in a parallel universe. And then I come here and its like "Ah, I am not crazy, whew."

But yes scared is one reason. Mostly thanks to the right wing mega noise machines like; the fake news channel aka as fox news and the loons on the right wing bat shit crazy hate radio (rush, beck etc...). These type of places play on your fears and try to divide everything in between lying.

Narcissistic - Yep. And add the right wing mega noise machines to pump you up and cheer you on to something.

Dumb - Yes, but not stupid. ok some are both not all. The problem is the right wing mega noise machines they distort everything and then bombard you with their version of what the USA should be.

Then the 4th reason.

Just plain and simple racism and bigotry. Of course the right wing mega noise machines helps reinforce your hate.

Those reasons by themselves is one thing but add some right wing mega noise machines ... shake it ... bake it ... stir ... and voila you get a bagger all red and raring to go.

Welcome to the DU

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
20. Because Democrats / Liberals don't appeal to them, and in fact many look down on them
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:53 PM
Nov 2013

How can you vote for a party that, the RW Media tells you, looks down on you?

Look at one of the pictures that the Right Wingers use to depict Obama:



The Right Wing successfully is able to portray Democrats and Liberals as snobs that look down on the southerners and rural / small town people, which is then ingrained into the minds of many of these people, that Democrats / The Left looks down on you and want the Government to take away your freedoms. Democrats do little to nothing to appeal to these people directly, in efforts to appeal to urban people. The Guns issue is one major issue, where Democrats have to sacrifice rural people for the benefit of city people.

Some may hate what I'm saying but it is the truth, and the truth can often be uncomfortable. It's not the only factor but it IS a major factor.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
21. that last one is kidding himself
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:02 PM
Nov 2013

He would not have invested and become a millionaire. That's a fantasy Rush sells them.

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
22. it's the authoritarian mind at work
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:10 PM
Nov 2013

Read Prof. Altmeyer's "The Authoritarians"

PDF of the entire book: http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

Explains how so many can be such willing dupes to such obvious shysters

okaawhatever

(9,453 posts)
23. It's an US and THEM mentality. There are problems in this country, huge debt and deficit, decreasing
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:10 PM
Nov 2013

wages, decreasing quality of life, etc. Americans want answers. That answer could come in the form of: A. The corporations have usurped the purpose of Congress and turned it into their own personal cash register. Laws that allow consolidation of the press and foreign ownership of same have completely skewed what we know about our government and economy. The legislature has been crippled by special interest groups and lobbying and unable to pass progressive legislation that helps the American worker. Namely minimum wage increases, retirement benefits, union protection and so on. ORRR it could be answer B. That lazy people on welfare have caused a huge budget deficit. That because people don't want to work because it's easier to get free gov't housing, free wic and so forth. That is also why people like you describe don't see themselves as the problem. They're not THOSE people. Sure, they get gov't benefits but they also worked. They're different. They have this mental vision of multi-generations of welfare recipients who scoff at the idea of work because they have it so good. The don't recognize themselves as the person the right wing describes, and they're not. The right wing has created a mythical figure that sucks up all the money in the budget having babies and not working. THAT'S NOT THEM. The people the right wing describe and rail against don't work hard and get shafted when the job moves overseas. They don't try to get ahead but lose out when a family member gets sick. Those people are the hard working conservative Republicans who wouldn't have those problems if the unions hadn't taken all their jobs. Their hospital bills wouldn't be so high if illegal aliens didn't get free health care via the emergency room, the hospital bills are only high because of lawsuits anyway.
The Republicans have sold half of America on the idea that they're not the problem. When i'm hurting and don't want what I have in life I look for the reasons and solutions. We all do. Republicans tapped into that anger and handed them a moral get out of jail free card. It's not you...it's them. They all lapped it up. Thank goodness, they say to themselves. I was beginning to wonder if I was the problem, i'm so happy that someone out there is confirming what I always thought about myself. That I'm great and someone else is to blame for my life not being better.
Why do you think Americans unite during times of war? Because we all agree on who the enemy is. We're all blaming the same entity and not each other. And by the way, the corporations and upper 1% pay for this because as long as we're all fighting ourselves, we're not solving the real problems. They get us fighting so we don't notice the house being robbed. I also think that's why the push for legislation that is controversial and partisan like abortion. Keep everyone neatly divided up fighting this and we won't get around to cutting the defense budget or increasing the minimum wage. That's my rant.

Butch McQueen

(43 posts)
32. I Like Your Rant
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:49 PM
Nov 2013

and agree with all of it! Especially what you had to say about the 1% types paying to do all they can to keep the rest of us fighting and blaming each other. They'll do whatever they think necessary to get the rest of us to take our eyes off the ball. Call me an optimist, but I think "the times they are a changing". It took the Great Depression of the 30s to actually jolt the country into some progressive policies. Maybe the "Great Recession" we're stuck in now will eventually have a comparable result.

thanks for your response!

Butch

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
26. Just plain dumb, but also ill-informed and lied to on a regular basis.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:49 AM
Nov 2013

I remember reading once that the majority of Americans believe that they are in the top 10% of earners in this country. I believe that part of that comes from the tribalism that lies at the center of American neighborhoods: most of the people who live next to you are of the same economic strata. If they get richer, they move up and away. If they get poor, the move down and away. In the meanwhile, Joe Six-pack looks next door and decides that compared to his neighbors, he's better off than a few of them Ergo, he must be in the top 10%.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
27. Glad to see you on DU and your post is an accurrate observation. not a rant IMO
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:00 AM
Nov 2013

As to why the public at large carries water for the plutocrats, I don't know either. In my circle of friends/relatives/acquaintances who fall under your descriptions, It's been my observation it boils down to religion, guns, and race. Most important too is selfishness and lack of empathy for those they do not personally know because they seem to make exceptions all the time for those "violating" their values if they are friends/relatives. Then there's the "I've got mine, the hell with you" angle of selfishness: Several friends who used to be liberal democrats, or even working class warriors when they were working stiffs became disinterested with corporate heavy-handedness and then focused on social issues after they retired........and the more comfortably retired they were the more rightward they leaned.

I guess some people are just assholes and we just have to wait until they die off.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
28. I don't understand why people think Obamacare...
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:01 AM
Nov 2013

or Medicare or Medicaid or whatever is "free healthcare." Our taxes pay for it. It's about time we get something we can use instead of another friggin war that costs a billion dollars a day.

That said, any sane country that spends as much money on healthcare as we do would institute Medicare for all and be done with it. We would probably even save a few bucks. Good for everyone except the private health insurance companies, and they've bled us long enough.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
30. Yea, I'm going to go directly with
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:59 AM
Nov 2013

just plain old dumb.

After years of close contact with conservatives, I've found it's a waste of mental energy having to endlessly disect what is wrong with them and why when, ultimately, you're just going to conclude they just don't have the intellectual prowess to understand. That's why they're still conservatives and not liberals.

Basically, right wingers start out as plain, non-political stupid people. Right wingers are stupid people who have "discovered" politics. Right Wingness is the application of stupidity to politics.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
31. They are scared, primarily, I think.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:16 AM
Nov 2013

It's what they're frightened of that those of us on the left often mistake.

I have some theories about this, but this is neither the time nor the place for those.

Good thread, btw. Thanks.



-Laelth

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