Did JFK help fake the moon-landing? Why do so many unanswered questions still remain unasked?

[struggle4progress]

I did once believe the official story about the moon-landing. But then I had a life-changing encounter at the state fair

A woman, whom I had never met before, rushed up to me and began to explain that the Apollo astronauts had encountered little moon creatures when they landed, and that the astronauts had been forced by the CIA to turn their cameras away, in order to keep Americans in ignorance of the truth

Months later, I suddenly realized that I had never seen her again and could not track her down. She is only one of the many other people who died under mysterious circumstances, or even just vanished inexplicably, in the years after Apollo. Now that I have finally started this book, detailing the results of years of investigation into odd discrepancies and unanswered questions about the so-called Apollo program, it is time to thank a person whose name I never knew, a person whose memory must never be forgotten, the person who really started me on my long quest for truth:

To you, STATE FAIR MOON LADY, with my deep and everlasting gratitude

CHAPTER ONE: WHY?

Many people who have not thought deeply do not realize how strange the Apollo story is, beyond even the very idea of getting into a big tin can and hurtling recklessly through outer space. But there are many other problems

For instance, there was a new moon on Monday, 14 July 1969, and the moon was still just a sliver on Sunday 20 July 20 1969. Why would anyone try to land on the moon when there was so little of it?

Also, there is the matter of Richard Feynman's deathbed confession: Feynman admitted that he and The Amazing Randi had been part of a wider conspiracy to convince the public that Apollo had landed on the moon. Why would they do that? I think they received death-threats, as I sometimes have

And it seems to be much too big a coincidence that Apollo could actually crash into the moon, which is actually so small you can't see it if you hold a penny near your eye. How did the moon manage to line up with Apollo spaceship? Nobody has ever provided a good explanation

Plus -- what kind of fake name is Buzz Aldrin? It sounds like somebody walked around Haight-Ashbury, looking for ideas, and heard somebody say, "Whoa! I sure gotta buzz from all those aldrin tablets?" And what about Kneel Strong Arm? Really? I'm supposed to believe that name? Real people haven't used names like that since Viking times

Another thing that does not add up is the timeline. A psychic who contacted Michael Collins' girlfriend learned she and Michael Collins had broadway tickets for Oh! Calcutta! the evening of 20 July 1969. You just can't make up stuff like this ...

[FarPoint]

1. Conspiracy Theories don't belong in GD.

Plus...this is a pathetic.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. ahahahahahahahahahaha.

[rhett o rick]

49. The post is a fake conspiracy theory intended to mock all the posts related to the JFK assassination

Those in the self-appointed CT posse have been having a hard time these last few weeks. Worried that CT will destroy DU as we know it, they generally alert on all CT except those that favor their world view.

But this post fails at it's intended goal, because, as you can see, it prompted a lively discussion, which is the purpose of GD.

[struggle4progress]

65. Maybe all the discussion is coming from shills paid by the establishment to discredit me

[rhett o rick]

78. What is interesting is that one group in DU does most of the alerting. Especially re. SoP.

One individual, IMO does nothing but police DU and look for CT under every bed.

If a liberal member of DU where to put up CT, bingo-bango two or three of the CT posse would jump on it like thunder.

But if one of the conservative members posts CT, no one alerts. The liberals dont try to bully their agenda thru. Liberal members promote open discussion while the conservatives try to bully their agenda by alerting and celebrating when they successfully get someone PPR'd.

Your post proves my point, thanks for posting.

[sendero]

93. You...

... do a fine job of discrediting yourself.

Comparing moon-landing CTs to the JFK assassination is ludicrous on its face, and only a 2-bit mind would find it apt in any way.

[struggle4progress]

94. Then the only logical conclusion is that someone miust be paying me to do that!

But I don't remember anyone offering to pay me ...



... hmmm ...

... mebbe I oughta reread the email from that Nigerian bank official ...

[Hekate]

2. Did you forget the sarcasm smilie? or the link to The Onion? or something?

This is gibberish.

[struggle4progress]

40. It sounds like you do not intend to contribute any money to help fund my further research

[kentauros]

86. I laughed out loud as soon as I read:

"But then I had a life-changing encounter at the state fair"

No sarcasm tag needed in my honest opinion

[Hekate]

89. I think my humor quotient had dipped before I read that

others replied more in keeping with the tone of the OP

back atcha

[HERVEPA]

3. Pathetic attempt at being humorous.

[dchill]

7. Pathetic? NOT!!!

It's freaking true.

[Archae]

13. Pathetic? Hell it's brilliant!

Uses the same M. O. and approach to facts the Kennedy killing CT'ers use.

[whathehell]

26. Pathetic indeed. n/t

[Logical]

67. LOL, hit a nerve I assume. That is funny! n-t

[HERVEPA]

71. Geezus. No nerve. Just poorly written satire.

[kwassa]

80. No. Excellent satire.

Caused me to really laugh out loud.

[Fumesucker]

95. It's not good satire if no one falls for it

I read the entire thread, no one at all took the OP seriously.

A corollary of Poe's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Poe's law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is an Internet adage reflecting the idea that without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism.[1]

No one even bothered to call for this particular satire to be banished from GD or marked as such, a clear indication that it didn't fool anyone.

[The Midway Rebel]

4. This is a way bad Manny Goldstien impersonation isn't it? nt

[struggle4progress]

44. Actually, Manny and I have simply never discussed the Apollo program

[Fumesucker]

5. The evidence is in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad

And east, west, south and north somewhat.

[liberalmuse]

8. I knew an astronaut years ago.

He was one of the most kind, sincere people I've ever met. The experience had a profound effect on his life. The moon landing wasn't faked.

[chillfactor]

9. another conspirarcy theorist......

oh joy......NOT!

[nyquil_man]

10. I'm not going to dismiss this theory out of hand.

Doing so would indicate certainty which, I'm told, is anti-intellectual.

[pinboy3niner]

11. The clincher: If they really went to the moon, how come they they didn't bring back any cheese?

When they didn't come home with cheese, I knew that whole moon story was no gouda.

[Bandit]

31. Don't you remember a few years back when the Government gave away free cheese

Just where do you think that came form?

[zappaman]

34. OMIGOD

Now everything makes sense!

[kentauros]

87. That's because they landed on the Hollow Moon, operated by the Nazis.

You're thinking of the moon that Wallace and Grommet went to

[struggle4progress]

91. Wallace and Grommet are excellent sources! I'm bookmarking your post so I can remember

to include them in my footnotes

[Deep13]

12. "What kind of a fake name is Buzz Aldrin?'

It's actually "Buzz Aldrin, PhD." And it's the kind that an astronaut would make up for himself. He was born Edwin I. Aldrin, Jr., but he later changed it to Buzz, because that' what everyone called him anyway.

[rustydog]

14. Wow, Pot is legal in Washington State now,will you share what you're smoking?

[SidDithers]

15. DU rec...

nicely done.

Sid

[rhett o rick]

53. But, but I thought you didnt approve of CT? Oh yeah, you only object to CT that doesnt

meet your world view or those posted by your posse, like this one, to mock others.

[SidDithers]

56. Mocking CTs, and the tin-foil loons who believe them...

is something of which I wholly approve.



Sid

[rhett o rick]

58. Of course YOU get to decide on what is CT and what is not. Ahh the power.

Funny how you dont alert on CT that favors your world view. What is that called?

[SidDithers]

60. No, I get to express MY opinion of what is and isn't a CT...

It's the Hosts who make the actual decision of whether to ignore the "no conspiracy theories" part of the SOP.

And we both know what Hosts generally decide on that issue.

Sid

[GeorgeGist]

16. Worthy of the Onion.

Thanks for the laugh.

[B Calm]

17. I was in Valletta, Malta when we landed on the moon. I remember

getting into an argument with a bartender who didn't believe it.

[ucrdem]

18. JFK and RFK were already dead.

The manned lunar landings -- all six of them -- began and ended during Nixon's first term, per NASA:

Apollo 11 - Jul 16, 1969 - Crewed Landing
Apollo 12 - Nov 14, 1969 - Crewed Landing
Apollo 13 - Apr 11, 1970 - Crewed Landing (aborted)
Apollo 14 - Jan 31, 1971 - Crewed Landing
Apollo 15 - Jul 26, 1971 - Crewed Landing
Apollo 16 - Apr 16, 1972 - Crewed Landing
Apollo 17 - Dec 7, 1972 - Crewed Landing

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/lunartimeline.html

Aboard this mighty ship:



hmm..

[cpwm17]

37. Conspiracies work in mysterious ways. nt

[ucrdem]

72. That they do.

Until you figure one or two of them out. Then they all work more or less the same way, run by the same shabby crowd for the same shabby purposes. Politics really are funny that way, so I don't see any harm in having a laugh about it now and then, whatever your view of conspiracies.

[Katashi_itto]

19. Is this supposed to be satire?

If so, it's pretty bad

I mean it does have some humorous elements. The Buzz Aldrin was funny

[pintobean]

20. The Vikings went there

long before we pretended to.

[struggle4progress]

45. Maybe that's who she saw: offspring of marooned Vikings who interbred with extraterrestrials

[pintobean]

47. !

[Fumesucker]

64. You are confused, the Vikings went to Mars, not the Moon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_program

The Viking program comprised a pair of American space probes sent to Mars, Viking 1 and Viking 2.[1] Each spacecraft was composed of two main parts: an orbiter designed to photograph the surface of Mars from orbit, and a lander designed to study the planet from the surface. The orbiters also served as communication relays for the landers once they touched down.

It was the most expensive and ambitious mission ever sent to Mars, with a total cost of roughly US$1 billion.[2] It was highly successful and formed most of the body of knowledge about Mars through the late 1990s and early 2000s.

The Viking program grew from NASA's earlier, and more ambitious, Voyager Mars program, which was not related to the successful Voyager deep space probes of the late 1970s. Viking 1 was launched on August 20, 1975, and the second craft, Viking 2, was launched on September 9, 1975, both riding atop Titan III-E rockets with Centaur upper stages. Viking 1 entered Mars orbit on June 19, 1976, with Viking 2 following suit on August 7.

After orbiting Mars for more than a month and returning images used for landing site selection, the orbiters and landers detached; the landers then entered the Martian atmosphere and soft-landed at the sites that had been chosen. The Viking 1 lander touched down on the surface of Mars on July 20, 1976, and was joined by the Viking 2 lander on September 3. The orbiters continued imaging and performing other scientific operations from orbit while the landers deployed instruments on the surface.

[struggle4progress]

69. See? They even lied about that! We've just established there wewre Vikings on the moon

And that's why it's important to do your research rather than just believe the government

[Fumesucker]

74. No, nein, nyet, non,

It's green ~cheese~ on the Moon, Little Green Vikings on Mars.

Trust me, I know these things.

[struggle4progress]

75. Well, I'm still researching this stuff. I guess I gotta go re-check the Cookies and Bacon group here

cuz I was pretty sure I heard it was BLUE cheese and GREEN eggs-n-ham

[Fumesucker]

76. Mmm.. Bacon!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1157&pid=34995

[Recursion]

83. Boy, they'll go anywhere but the end zone, huh? (nt)

[Codeine]

21. Most DU satire sucks, but that was awesome.

[fadedrose]

23. In Michigan

the moon is only as big as the button on a dress shirt, in other words, too small to support the ship even if they lined it up. Clearly they would break the moon if they tried to land on it much less line it up.

That's why it was such a small step for mankind. It was a small step for anything, and that's why the Russians used a monkey.

State Fair Moon Lady is locked up in a cage under Area 51 but she's allowed to send christmas cards. Just wait.

.

The sun here is not that much bigger, but it's too bright to gage the size of with a coin. Hurts my eyes.

You are very wise, struggle4progress.

[cpwm17]

24. Release the documents!

Why won't the government release the documents? Inquiring minds want to know.

[The Straight Story]

25. This would fly in the dungeon, like the "No planes at all hit the WTC!" crap does (nt)

[liberal N proud]

27. Buzz Aldrin stole his name from Buzz Lightyear

[treestar]

28. Lol

[DanTex]

29. The best thing about this OP...

Is that after all the JFK conspiracy nuttiness, some people aren't sure whether this is even satire.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. I saw them through a telescope.

Something was there. I saw it.

[kydo]

32. You betcha! Sarah Palin says she can see the moon from her house

You know what the really sad thing is? There really are people that could be that state fair woman. We need a new ad campaign like Vancouver, "Don't be that state fair loony woman! Friends don't let friends watch Fox News or listen to rush. Don't be that person."

[struggle4progress]

35. I met that lady at the Texas State Fair in 1969! Why would you think I made her up?

[The Midway Rebel]

33. Thanks for all your hard work on this.

I know how hard it is to cut and paste shit while you did your "research."

[struggle4progress]

70. I think you're just jealous I posted that info about Michael Collin's girlfriend before you did

[zappaman]

36. I think you might be too late.

Rumor has it that renowned snake oil salesman and top assclown, Mark Lane, is already writing this book.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[struggle4progress]

38. Do you know if his book will claim JFK faked his own death as practice for faking the moon-landing?

[TheSarcastinator]

39. Yes, 'Cuz Questioning the Single Shooter Theory = Questioning the Moon Landing

Not at all a false equivalence and reduction to absurdity! I'm so glad we have so many deep, serious and critical thinkers at DU to tell the rest of us how foolish we are.

[eqfan592]

62. Given the evidence, the comparison is completely valid. nt

[karadax]

41. Could it be ?

That the lasers you can point and reflect off the moon are really bouncing off the shiny heads of the lil gray men ? This is too much to digest.

[LadyHawkAZ]

42. Your source was an idiot.

EVERYONE knows Elvis helped fake the moon landing, and the government sent him to the planet Nibiru when he threatened to talk.

When the planet Nibiru makes its next scheduled crash into the Earth, all will be revealed.

[struggle4progress]

43. I fear many people want desperately to cling to the official story and will discount what you say

[LadyHawkAZ]

48. I got that straight from an attendee at a UFO convention

Nibiru was all set to crash into Earth at that time, and he warned us all about it (I don't know what happened with that, maybe Nibiru shifted in its orbit or something). He was also upset about aliens stealing our cows, and was very insistent that we should all oppose alien cattle thieves. Somewhere I still have the little sticker he gave me. It looked like this:



(unfortunately, this is a true story, not satire)

[pintobean]

50. Now I know.

Twasn't ghosts, twas alien rustlers.

[zappaman]

52. uh oh

[ThoughtCriminal]

46. No. No No. You're ALL wrong

http://thoughtcrimewave.blogspot.com/2009/07/moon-hoax-conspiracy.html

It should be fairly obvious that the special effects for "2001: A Space Odyssey" were too advanced for 1967. Comparing the movie to other science fiction films of the era makes this very clear. It is also suspicious that Kubrick had all of the "Models" used in the movie destroyed after filming.

The movie was actually made on location in Earth orbit and on the Lunar surface. Rather than admit that Stanley Kubrick not only beat NASA to the Moon, but constructed a studio there, the C.I.A. forced him to claim that the space scenes were filmed at Shepperton Studios in England using "Special Effects". All of the real sets were deliberately buried in Tycho Crater.

[zappaman]

51. Thanks for the lively discussion!

Now that CTs are allowed in GD, I can't wait to see what's next!

[ljm2002]

54. Cute...

...but 100% irrelevant.

Yes, there are wacky conspiracy theories out there, about all sorts of things.

No, the "fake moon landing" CTs are not equivalent to the "why and/or by whom was JFK killed" CTs.

Why? Well, because one is about a technological achievement, and one is about a political assassination.

Historically, many political leaders have been assassinated. Many times conspiracies were involved. We know, for example, there was a plot for a military coup against FDR. That is just one case where members of the power elite -- in that case, the military -- conspired to overthrow a leader -- their own leader, in fact.

We also know that our own CIA is adept at conspiracies to overthrow and assassinate leaders of other countries. And we know there are forces within the CIA who operate independently of the President, whoever that President may be; and we know that there were plenty of those sorts who hated, absolutely hated JFK after the Bay of Pigs fiasco (and probably before).

We also know of real conspiracies or suggested dark ops by our own law enforcement agencies: MKULTRA, COINTELPRO, Operation Northwoods, to name a few.

None of this applies to the space race. One could argue that we needed a victory so we faked it, or that NASA wanted to keep the gravy train rolling. But these motives hardly rise to the level one would expect for such a massive deception to take place. And of course NASA engineers are not trained in the art of deception. It is hard to imagine lots of NASA engineers going along with such a deception.

On the other hand, one can certainly see members of the FBI, the NSA and the CIA of keeping secrets. They are all trained to keep secrets, in fact they are all sworn to keep certain secrets. They are also trained in the art of deception. Whatever dirty business they are engaged in can always be justified by the higher-ups as necessary for "national security", and of course the higher ups carefully choose their operatives for the dirtiest jobs, people who like killing and feel powerful when they know things that others do not know.

None of this proves anything at all about the JFK assassination. But if you wonder why people don't trust the official story of that, vs. why a lot of the same people do believe we really did put someone on the moon -- I think that this common sense analysis may suggest some reasons for that.

[zappaman]

55. What's this have to do with rape porn?

[NuclearDem]

57. What nobody knows is that I DID stage the moon landing. On Venus! AROOOO

[SidDithers]

59. Mitchell and Webb fake the moon landing...

Sid

[eqfan592]

61. I don't know what is funnier...

...this post, or the people who can't distinguish between this and the other CT garbage that's infested DU as of late!

Well done!

[SidDithers]

63. +1...

November has officially become Conspiracy Theory Month at DU.



Sid

[Fumesucker]

77. After reading the entire thread...

I can't find a single poster who took the OP seriously.

Clearly it fails the Poe test.

[pinboy3niner]

92. Not take it seriously? Shirley you jest!

Who could ignore the astrophysical evidence of the sliver moon, the documented Feynman/Randi connection, and the indisputable proof that the moon is smaller than a penny?!!!

You round-earthers are all the same, stuck in your ideological bubble and refusing to see the evidence that is right before your eyes!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. love this

[struggle4progress]

68. Thank you! The next time black helicopters are chasing me at three in the morning,

I'll feel much more comfortable about knocking on your door to ask for money

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. the cia will used mini drones now, no helicopters for you

[grantcart]

79. Yep, and can you tell me where George Bush was on that day?

I didn't think so.

'Nough said.

[struggle4progress]

85. Oops! I hadn't considered him. I guess many people will testify he spent lots of time in outer space

[Douglas Carpenter]

81. I personally believe Oswald acted alone. But a lot of mainsteam and very sensible people don't see

it that way. . There is no other conspiracy theory that has a solid majority of Americans believing it along with several senior government officials of that era including Robert Kennedy and probably LBJ who did in fact believe there was a conspiracy. I personally think they were wrong. But this conspiracy theory is not even remotely comparable to 9/11 truthers or UFO's or Area 51 or people who think the moon landing was filmed in a studio. The fact is you and I and those who do accept the Warren Commission conclusion are in the minority and those who believe there was a conspiracy are in the overwhelming majority. Even among academics, government officials and journalist belief in a conspiracy surrounding the JFK assassination is completely mainstream.

[grantcart]

88. There is a much greater chance of a conpiracy with James Earl Ray.

LBJ was filled with conflicted psychological baggage after the attack. Robert Kennedy was deeply affected by JFK's murder. Teddy accepted the results and also gave this rather ominous report of Robert's mental state after the assassination:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/kennedy-memoir-talks-of-chappaquiddick-jfk-and-other-presidents/?_r=1

In the 532-page book, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times, Mr. Kennedy also said he has always accepted the official findings of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination, an event that he said left family members fearing for the emotional health of his brother, Robert F. Kennedy. Mr. Kennedy that he often thought of one brother’s deep grief over the loss of another and said it “veered close to being a tragedy within a tragedy.”

Yes a solid majority believe that it was a conspiracy and it is evenly split between all of the various multitudes of conspiracies, including people in the left who think it was done by rightist elements and people in the left who think that it was orchestrated by communists, and others mafia, etc.

In fact the theory of the murder that has by far the greatest number of people subscribing to it is the theory that Oswald did it. After that the percent of people that believe in a particular theory drops way off. I don't see how it adds to the credibility of the idea that some conspiracy existed when after 50 years the split between the theories remains virtually unchanged and almost completely determined by a persons' personal point of view rather than any emerging evidence.

Actually after Bugliosi's comprehensive treatment of all the different theories in "Reclaiming History" Oswald's role has become the overwhelming view of academics, government officials and journalists, especially those that don't have a vested financial interest in continuing the controversy.

We have a place for people to have stream of consciousness break through on such key issues as to where George Bush was on 11/23. To continue to allow it in GD simply undermines its value.

I understand the basic sympathy for not accepting the established version from a government that would a few months later serve us the Gulf of Tonkin incident. The headline screams conspiracy. Disturbed communist who renounced citizenship and returned to the US shoots the President and is killed by a Mafia key figure.

The problem is in the details. Oswald was the shooter and he tried to kill Walker before. He is a disturbed person with a narcissistic megalomaniac ego. He leaves the depository rushes home and puts 4 bullets into officer Tippi and when he is arrested a few minutes later pulls out the gun and tries to shoot Detective Brewer. As he is led out of the theater, just a few minutes after killing one policeman and attempting to murder another he is overheard by many people in the theater saying that he is a victim of "police brutality" even though everyone in the theater has seen the facts.

Ruby was a gad fly with dreams of grandeur. How well planned was his attack? Well before committing the crime 'ordered by mafia bosses' he stops to send some money by Western Union to one of his stripper employees who is having money problems on a trip. There is an operational problem at the Western Union and he is delayed by about 30 minutes. At the time Dallas Police Chief Fritz lets one of his buddies, a postal Inspector talk with Oswald and so Oswald's movement is delayed and Ruby's arrives late but still has a chance to shoot Oswald. Does it make any sense to anyone that if Ruby was part of a real plot that he would go to Western Union to send money to a stripper minutes before shooting Oswald?

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/the-only-person-who-knew-both-kennedy-and-his-killer/281712/

Its fine to have CT for this stuff but we should move it out of GD. It communicates the idea that the standards for reasonable discussion in GD is very low.

[Douglas Carpenter]

90. I think the mindset and personality disorder of Lee Harvey Oswald and Mark David Chapman are very

similar. There was an excellent film about the shooting of John Lennon narrated entirely from the personal notes of Mark David Chapman. A lot of people object to a movie being told from the murderer's perspective - but I think the way this film does it does not glorify the killer at all - but does show the pathetic mindset. I have the impression that though channeled in different ways - Lee Harvey Oswald's mindset was very close.

&list=PLX55TNsHeT30NhT-KnbuIDsucmvATM7lk

[chillfactor]

82. I really am tired of conspiracy theorists....

it might actually help if you did some actual research instead of posting fallacies....

[tblue37]

84. Oh, and the tide goes in and the tide goes out. They can't explain stuff like that. nt