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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm getting sick of how evangelical Christians are inserting religion into college sports.
Last edited Sun Mar 11, 2012, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)
Last night I was watching the Big XII tournament, and after Baylor beat KU(yes KU, that was your Big XII Coach of the Year, according to Big XII coaches, going down in flames), the coach from Baylor was interviewed courtside. The announcer noted that Baylor men and women's basketball teams were going to be playing in the Big XII tournament finals, while their football team also did very well this year, and the question was asked why Drew thought Baylor sports was doing so well. His answer? Christian values that are instilled in the school.
Yep, GAWD strikes again.
I understand that this is an evangelical Baptist university, but really now, crediting GAWD for a successful run in sports? Claiming that "Christian values" lead to winning programs? Isn't that a bit over the top?
Of course Missouri, my home team, is leaving the Big XII in a few months. But since we're going over to the SEC, we're still not going to be free of this GAWD nonsense. After all, Tim Tebow's alma mater, Florida, is part of the SEC.
It has, in fact, become ever more prevalent throughout college sports, a creeping of evangelical Christianity into not just sports, but the very fabric of college institutions on many, if not most campuses. Clubs, events like Campus Crusade, on and on, evangelical Christianity is becoming ever more present in university life. It has now gotten so entrenched that Christians now feel emboldened to utter such nonsense as Baylor's Scott Drew, equating victory on the game floor with GAWD's favor.
This is even starting to become big in the pro leagues as well. Not only do we have evangelicals like Tebow make pro-life commercials, and former starts like Kurt Warner prostelyzing off the field(now even more so since he retired), but entire organizations, like Major League Baseball, are kowtowing to evangelical Christian fundies by making it de rigueur to have an audience participation act of "God Bless America" during the seventh inning stretch(for those of you not in the know, a lot of fundie Christians want to replace the Star Spangled Banner with God Bless America as our national anthem).
Thus we see evangelical Christianity worming its way deeper and deeper into the fabric of our society. Sure, if a kid wants to write John 3:16 under his eyes for a football game, it, in and of itself, isn't that big a deal. But these sorts of things add up, and one day we wake up and realize that our entire culture and society is awash in evangelical Christianity, and that our government can't be very far behind.
I don't know what the answer is, how we can stop this sort of insane onslaught, I really don't. What I do know is that if we don't stop it, pretty soon we're going to be waking up and realize that we're living in a de facto theocracy, and that if you're not just Christian, but not the "right sort" of Christian, you will be a second class citizen. This is where we're headed, this is what we need to prevent.
For me, I hope that my MU Tigers, the quickest, fastest team in the country, kicks Baylor's ass this afternoon. My dream is that some intrepid sports announcer would then ask Coach Drew after the loss "Where is your GAWD now?" Sadly, I doubt that will happen.
P.S. Well, Mizzou did thump Baylor, sadly though, there were no intrepid reporters. Still, I wonder where Coach Drew thinks his GAWD is now that he lost.
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Faygo Kid
(21,492 posts)It's ridiculous. Of course, my MSU Spartans will take all the help they can get.
I doubt if Jesus prefers them over Wisconsin today, however.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)"We win more gold medals because Communism is superior!"
Yep. That's a thing totalitarian ideologies do.
eShirl
(20,259 posts)physical victory as proof of moral purity or superiority
Initech
(108,783 posts)He said that "You ever notice when these Christian athletes win they praise God every chance they get, but when they lose you don't hear a peep? God is undefeated in their book."/
Dawson Leery
(19,568 posts)This show of "God and Country" during sporting events is what usually occurs in third world dictatorships.
This "evangelical problem" is something that could have been solved during the civil war.
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)I don't support either -and I used to love watching basketball. Big money took the fun out of it.
louis-t
(24,618 posts)Big religion supports big money for a price. "Get us what we want and we'll support you". Hence, the barrage of right-wing social bills being passed. When you only work for 1% of the population, you need to make deals.....
Mumble
(201 posts)HE bets on all the games!
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)Little exclamations like bless you, we are so blessed, etc. etc. snap my head back and make me wonder what cloud these people live on. When I hear a doctor say "god bless you" in a clinical setting it is even more alarming.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)so satan backed the losers?
aka-chmeee
(1,226 posts)Many high schools have a chapter of the Cult of Christian Athletes.
undeterred
(34,658 posts)and so little about the economy and the world problems these young people will be facing soon. You'd think God would be a little more mature after all these years and have his/her priorities on the big picture.
Oh well.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)NoNeed4Attention
(13 posts)I'm tired of religion in everything. I wish it would just go away.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)
_ed_
(1,734 posts)Yeah, let's just shut people up instead of encouraging a debate. If we were talking about another set of ideas, say Keynsian Economics, no one would be crying and whining about locking the thread. Because the set of ideas in question is "Christianity," we just need everyone to shut up.
Don't pretend to be a liberal if you're shutting people up and censoring their viewpoints. That's the hallmark of the authoritarian mind. The recipe for bad speech isn't shutting people up -- it's more and better speech.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)I think you might want to have another look at what Hosts do.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)Christianity and religion in general has been in sports as long as I can remember. Certainly you are not advocating the repeal of the 1st Amendment? The sky isn't falling, the earth isn't coming to an end, and "de facto theocracy" is no closer than it has been in the history of the US. Frankly, I think the religion of sports is more detrimental to society. It's f-ing basketball for christs sake..
MadHound
(34,179 posts)I can easily remember a time when religion wasn't shoved in your face during an athletic event, much less having a coach credit "Christian values" for his success.
As far as a theocracy goes, it has been making good progress for the past thirty plus years. Evangelical Christianity, the sect that wants a theocracy, has been the fastest growing Christian sect for decades now, spreading hate and intolerance, along with advocating for a theocratic reign. This creeping theocratic attitude I have watched grow and prosper in my lifetime.
As far as the "religion of sports" goes, I don't understand why you think it is more detrimental to society. It is recreation, entertainment, and unlike evangelical Christianity, it isn't trying to subsume society and government in order to remake them in its own image. The reason why I detest and despise these types of in your face expressions of faith in sports is because it is simply another form of proselytization. How large would the outrage be if some athlete publicly thanked Allah, or a coach said that his school's success came from Muslim values? Such statements would light a bonfire of controversy that could be seen on the moon. But nobody thinks it is a big deal when evangelical Christians do the same thing. Separate sports and religion, period.
And as far as the lock on this thread goes, I spoke with the host of this forum and they agreed, upon further reflection, to unlock this thread.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)and I remember boxers, football players and other sports figures crediting their god for their wins for 40 years. Prayers before and during games, etc.
And I do hate what sports has become. It used to be a fun activity for families in all economic groups, attending games and such. Now it is so ridiculously expensive that only the rich kids get to go with any regularity. The sports loving community should rise up and defeat the profiteers, but alas, many in the sports loving community really don't want 'those types' coming to their posh stadiums anyway. No, college and pro sports are no longer for the masses, only the privileged few.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I can easily remember a time when religion wasn't shoved in your face during an athletic event..."
"How large would the outrage be if some athlete publicly thanked Allah, or a coach said that his school's success came from Muslim values?"
Never watched Ali box, huh?
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)much less players bragging about how their personal god caused them to win.
This push to instill religion into college sports is pathetic.
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)And it pisses me off that they think God cares about this crap. There are children going to bed hungry, people living on the streets, children getting beating and murdered by the very people who are supposed to protect them from the world, and people killing each other every day in this world. Why do they thing God has time or gives a rat's ass about a game? It is infuriating.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Just shows how self centered they are.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)(which seems highly unlikely), it's a piss-poor and/or cruel deity that doesn't care about children dying, tsunamis/earthquakes/hurricanes/tornados, starvation, war, or disease either, let alone a sports outcome.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The Greeks sure could do logic. Too bad so many 'murkans are unacquainted with the concept.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)We could use more logic and reason in this country, that's for sure. And to me the quote sort of simplifies and sums up the whole conundrum of monotheism.
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)I often say that if God is who THEY say he is, I want no part of him because he is an asshole.
DLCistheGOP
(14 posts)then they can Tebow before getting ripped to shreads.
Must see TV!
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)I hate sports. Money could be better spent.
SATIRical
(261 posts)Only state-approved, secular opinions should be allowed.
In the hyperventilating, terrified-about-hearing-about-"Gawd" responses, it appears folks missed that he didn't say it was because God wants them to win. Instead it was because of the Christian values.
You know, values like hard worked, selflessness and humility. (Cue all of the "lots of Christian don't live those values crowd"
Frankly, I'm getting sick of people who are so insecure in their lack of faith that they cannot bear to hear about those who believe in and get peace and guidance from their religion.
OK, not really. It doesn't make me sick. That would be as whiny as the OP. However, I do pity them and just shake my head at the intolerance and immaturity..
enuegii
(664 posts)is a sin, and women should be subservient to their husbands among your christian values.
Just trying to be helpful.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Is that what you're talking about? Because please don't forget, those, among many others, are indeed evangelical Christian values(I should know, since I was raised in that faith).
You assume a lot about me, and read a lot into my post, all of it wrong.
I have no problem with expressions of faith, however what I do have a problem with is when these expressions of faith are part of a larger push to make this an evangelical Christian nation. That is the exact direction that evangelical Christianity wants to take this country, to make us a theocracy. Is that what you want?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"to make us a theocracy. Is that what you want?
The personal biases that allow people get from A to 5 are often quite beyond me.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)are Christian values.
To try to make the claim that one faith or faith itself represents those values is false - which anyone who is not part of that religion who also demonstrates those values finds offensive.
That's the problem - to pretend that being a Christian means anything other than stating you hold a belief in a particular idea of god.
The word "Christian" doesn't say anything else about a person.
SATIRical
(261 posts)No one said they were SOLELY Christian values.
The word "Christian" doesn't say anything else about a person... but seeing a person call people emote all over the place and call other people assholes for voicing their opinion does say a lot about that person.
And if you don't understand that most religions come with values that those followers are supposed to embody and incorporate into their lives, then you might want to do a little research. You clearly do not understand religion. It's not just about "stating you hold a belief in a particular idea of god."
I'm very familiar with Christianity.
I am saying that the reality of life is that people who profess a belief in one thing or another do not show any values that are better or worse than others. This is clearly demonstrable in the lives of people all the time.
The reality, no matter what the claim, is that saying you are a Christian means nothing in terms of behavior, no matter what a religion claims. The most hateful politicians I've ever seen claimed Christianity as an excuse for their hate. Based upon behavior, it's just as reasonable to claim that Christian values in action include hate.
The issue was why would this person claim the team's success had anything to do with religious belief and the reality is that it has nothing to do with it.
That someone would make this claim is idiotic - because the reverse is not claimed if they lose - and rightly so because there are a lot of reasons for success or failure on the field - and a lot of them have to do with the team you're playing, not just you.
If you want to make false statements about why someone would try to claim religious belief had something to do with athletic success, expect to be called on it. Not everyone here lives in the bubble of fundie-speak.
WillowTree
(5,350 posts)
CherokeeWarrior
(9 posts)Gawd forbid someone have freedom of speech for his beliefs and feelings, I thought we were progressive and believed in that kinda stuff .. you know the first amendment.. so some people are very out front about their belief. So what .. Does not bother me in the bit ..
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Doesn't bother you.
It would be a different thing if this were an isolated incident, but it isn't. It is part of an ongoing effort to steer this country towards a evangelical Christian state. Is that what you want?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)segment to trumpet their views and parrot those of others even more loudly.
A college coach speaking about his views after a basketball game doesn't do much to move society in the direction of evangelical Christianity.
Thank goodness for the First Amendment though, huh? He spoke his piece, and you spoke yours. No one got bruised, no one needed stitches, and no one's the worse for wear and tear.
I think that's the way the Founding Fathers intended for things to be.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)They see less church attendance and members and are concerned. Theocracy doesn't really win people's hearts and souls though. True faith is chosen.
In the U.S., we have the freedom to choose any or no religion. This is the way it has been from the time of founding of this country.
The Great Escape
(1,235 posts)especially in their hoops program
ldf
(2,964 posts)if a football player, ala tebow, had a black rectangle under each eye with, written in white, "who" on the left, and "cares?" on the right?
the outrage of the affronted christians would be over the top.
part of their whole mantra is to "personally testify" to others. whether we want to hear it or not is irrelevant. the result? they have the freedom to shove their religion down the rest of our collective throats. yet atheists should sit down and shut up.
apparently freedom of religion is a one way street.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)I graduated from college in 2000. We went to a cross country invitational at a Baptist college where they said a prayer that included something about encouraging any non Christian to convert. Although they did not mention going to hell, I think it would have been better to stick with good sportsmanship and no injuries if they were going to lead a public prayer rather than conversion. They had that right to say that though and our school and the other schools agreed to go there.
Growing up in an area that was probably above average in church attendance, it wasn't unusual for good athletes that had won state or had an otherwise outstanding athletic career to make some mention of their faith in God. Often these were public school athletes.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)Whether you think it stupid the fact is people have been thanking God in sports forever. I think it's rather stupid. Ok, it's really stupid, but definately not something new. Also America is more secular than ever, polls on relegion prove it and if anything is it's a driver making evangelicals to be more vocal about their beliefs. The switch to God Bless America came out the 9/11 attacks, not some plot to turn America into a theocracy To summerize your rant: you don't want people publically talking about their faith and to say you want to rub it the Baylor coaches face says a lot about your own insercurity and prejudices.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)People have the right to say what they think even if you disagree with it.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Wouldn't it be great if a team of Druids won the NCAA?
Or a Rose Bowl victory for an all-Zen Pac-12 squad?
Ilsa
(64,377 posts)Were their students not godly enough to deserve God's favor?
Mariana
(15,626 posts)Christian Values™ at all during that period. Obviously. If they'd been instilling Christian Values™, the team would have been winning all that time.
Ilsa
(64,377 posts)The place was filled with heretics, according to a friend of mine that graduated from their law school.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)God liked Baylor's prayer better?
Dang.
Seriously, my dad was a high school basketball coach and my mom would pack us all into the car to go to a game and make us say the rosary on the way there. I can still remember when I was old enough to question the idea of a rosary winning a game and my parents looking at me like I was a heathen.
It wasn't until I was a mother myself that I realized that rosary kept us calm and occupied in the car. So I now think of my mom as pretty smart rather than overly religious. 
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)Gawd can help a sports team win their game, but can't bring himself to do a damn thing in places like Syria, Darfur, etc.
Yeah, me neither...
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)had a number of teammates who were from India. I asked him if they understood the game, he said not really, but learning and they do like it very much. We talked more about his team & coaches (public school), and I learned that his coach while in the locker room would gather the players around him, and the coach would offer prayers (christian) and words of encouragement (in a religious tone). I asked how the players from India handled this, he said they seemed confused.
My nephew, ever a liberal, and believing that religion has no place in a public school or locker room, found other things to do, while the coach prosletyzed. The coach would give him glaring looks but never spoke to my nephew. Perhaps the coach knew he was on treacherous ground.
He's now in college playing football and he says in his program, there are those players who evoke their christianity, but nothing comes from the coaches. This is a private university, which has a religious history, but it's not ever present.
Another nephew played high school baseball at a catholic school, when he came up to bat he always blessed himself, I was okay with that. However when he started playing baseball at a state university, I had a problem that he continued this practice.
Anyway, religion is present from the high school level on up. It has probably creeped down into the middle school level also. I don't have a problem with athletes having beliefs, but insisting that God is responsible for their wins is a hard one for me to swallow.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)I'd love to know what other obvious things surprise you. How about, "I went into a bank this morning and all the teller wanted to talk about was money. I mean, really now..."
iverglas
(38,549 posts)The NHL is still nominally Canadian, and we don't put up with that kind of crap up here.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Ex-NHLer-says-hockey-s-the-sport-least-influence?urn=nhl,87601
Google NHL religion and most of the results will be talking about the Montreal Canadiens, a church unto themselves.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,681 posts)... Lord Stanley's Cup
It don't get more holy than that!
iverglas
(38,549 posts)And the acolytes all dream of the day when they might touch the sacred object.
Players of the Bonavista-Trinity Minor Hockey Association reach to touch the Stanley Cup
http://www.thepacket.ca/photo/Stanley-Cup-Bonavista-1828964
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I just think the post-game interviews are seen by a lot more people than they used to be, so more people are becoming aware of how prevalent it is.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)That being the case, I'm not surprised that they'd tout that as a reason for their successes. Of course, I doubt you'll hear them say that the same thing is the reason for their losses.
When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was a commonplace to see public school teams kneeling in prayer before a game. These days, that doesn't happen very often. I think you're maybe overstating your case here.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)It wasn't a common practice at all to see such upfront professions of faith by sports figures, either on or off the field. Now it is becoming more and more common again. What other athlete, besides the god-child Tebow, have you ever seen scrawl bible verses under their eyes in order to put their faith front and center with every close up?
Is this the sort of regression we want?
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)However, expecting a religion-based private University like Baylor not to engage in it is silly. The only place where any focus can be brought on secularization is for government-run institutions. I just ignore all of that stuff, to be quite frank. It's moronic, at whatever level it occurs.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)I don't want to associate or do business with such people because I find their logic and values lacking.
DFW
(60,189 posts)Fill in your own preference, and it'll be correct!
I'm getting sick of how evangelical Christians are inserting religion into__________________.
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)Don't know one player's identity/team from the next. I do love baseball though and attend as many Angels games as I can afford.
I am particularly gauled w/ the playing of 'God Bless America' during 7th inning stretch. I do not go to baseball games to be a participant in some evangelical crusade. I am sick of it and want to know where this decision was made - Commissioner of Baseball? - so I can complain loud and often.