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spinbaby

(15,073 posts)
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:45 AM Nov 2013

Scott Adams blog: I Hope My Father Dies Soon


A powerful letter from Scott Adams:


I hope my father dies soon.

And while I'm at it, I might want you to die a painful death too.

I'm entirely serious on both counts.

My father, age 86, is on the final approach to the long dirt nap (to use his own phrase). His mind is 98% gone, and all he has left is hours or possibly months of hideous unpleasantness in a hospital bed. I'll spare you the details, but it's as close to a living Hell as you can get.

Read the rest at:
http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/i_hope_my_father_dies_soon/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2FihdT+%28Dilbert+Blog%29
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Scott Adams blog: I Hope My Father Dies Soon (Original Post) spinbaby Nov 2013 OP
That's actually a really good argument. TBF Nov 2013 #1
A hospice can make a great difference LiberalEsto Nov 2013 #2
Not all Hospices are equal though. The one my glinda Nov 2013 #6
Some Are For Profit... grilled onions Nov 2013 #70
And not everybody dies in hospice. My mother is now 3 years out of hospice and sinkingfeeling Nov 2013 #42
It would almost be a blessiing to lose one's mind spinbaby Nov 2013 #55
holy shit: yodermon Nov 2013 #3
Very understandable, and absolutely nothing to be alarmed or shocked about, IMNSHO. idwiyo Nov 2013 #5
As a person who had a mother who died of Alzheimer's, I totally agree with him. Javaman Nov 2013 #9
I know exactly how he feels. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #17
I'm not judging and please feel free to ignore my question if its too personal/painful riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #73
Under state law at the time, it would not have been hard to prove we AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #78
Life is so hard...I hope you've found some peace riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #84
I try not to engage in jingoism, but AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #87
Thank you for posting it. I feel exactly as Mr Adams does. It's torture, pure and simple. idwiyo Nov 2013 #4
A lot of this is because of the way our medical system has evolved. SoCalDem Nov 2013 #7
You forgot about GREED. The longer someone lives, the more money can be made off them. idwiyo Nov 2013 #8
Got that right Doctor_J Nov 2013 #12
Yes, when lifetime caps were reached, suddenly the patient died. truebluegreen Nov 2013 #13
But he seems to blame it all on" the government"?? lunasun Nov 2013 #20
Yep, he's a libertarian creep. geardaddy Nov 2013 #31
Who else should he blame? Me? You? Or arseholes who vote against euthanasia? idwiyo Nov 2013 #59
"devolved" might be a better word. at one time, doctors might actually have cared about "healing". niyad Nov 2013 #37
Torture for profit. Every one of us has or is going to go through this. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #54
I am thankful there is Dignitas and I am close enough to be able to make it there. idwiyo Nov 2013 #57
They got my mother and my little sister. They tortured mom for months while draining her assets. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #58
That's horrific. I am so sorry. I wish there was something I could do. idwiyo Nov 2013 #60
Thank you. It is horrific and most people refuse to even talk about it. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #61
I will talk about it, and I will and do support every effort to make euthansia legal. idwiyo Nov 2013 #63
My father was kept from morphine addiction when he was dying of bone cancer REP Nov 2013 #69
I can't describe how sorry I am. This is beyond horrific, knowing it's not just one person but many idwiyo Nov 2013 #72
Thanks; it was nearly 20 years ago REP Nov 2013 #74
There may have been a misunderstanding. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #79
There was no misunderstanding. REP Nov 2013 #80
That seems absolutely inhumane... AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #81
His hope was fulfilled. FarCenter Nov 2013 #10
My condolences to Scott Adams and to everyone else in the sad situation. spooky3 Nov 2013 #25
Can he just take his dad home and let him die naturally? cbdo2007 Nov 2013 #11
Not really with Alzheimer's Disease Ms. Toad Nov 2013 #22
Some hospitals have "palliative" care - pain relief to ease passing csziggy Nov 2013 #14
We fixed this a few years ago in Washington State. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #15
Alas, churches ARE allowed to support or oppose ballot measures. Just not candidates. KamaAina Nov 2013 #48
True, there is additional sectors of opposition. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #50
I think the Protestant denominations ought not be excluded from opprobrium. WinkyDink Nov 2013 #89
"women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children... ZRT2209 Nov 2013 #16
Yeah, this really has little relevance here Shivering Jemmy Nov 2013 #26
sorry, got that wrong. the man is a misogynistic creep, and his feelings for his father do not niyad Nov 2013 #40
Fair enough, to raise ancillary issues. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #51
Monster? Jesus fucking christ try to grow some god damned empathy could ya CBGLuthier Nov 2013 #88
there is a difference between dumb and hateful. you are free to make whatever assessment you niyad Nov 2013 #90
Sorry, this was taken out of context and misinterpreted by someone who can not read. idwiyo Nov 2013 #62
sorry, I read the whole damned thing, and it was disgusting, no matter how he tried to weasel niyad Nov 2013 #76
Unfortunately there is no cure for willful blindness, and I am not talking about Mr Adams here. idwiyo Nov 2013 #82
you are correct, there is no cure for willful blindness. niyad Nov 2013 #83
While nothing to be proud about, you do get a point for admitting to it publicly. idwiyo Nov 2013 #91
Wait... Did you just publicly thumbsup yourself? Orrex Nov 2013 #93
Dilbert Creator Scott Adams Weighs In On Rape ZRT2209 Nov 2013 #18
I'm glad you pointed this out. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #27
Really? Shivering Jemmy Nov 2013 #36
I don't owe you any explanation for my opinion. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #39
No one owes anyone anything. Shivering Jemmy Nov 2013 #85
Lol, ok! nt Logical Nov 2013 #92
Why bother? AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #52
when my adversary is a misogynistic jerk who denies my humanity, my right to existence, claiims niyad Nov 2013 #71
That is certainly one perspective Shivering Jemmy Nov 2013 #86
On the other hand, it's great at fostering an air of smug, patronizing condescension. Orrex Nov 2013 #94
I am afraid I do not take your meaning. Shivering Jemmy Nov 2013 #95
Your Mileage May Vary Orrex Nov 2013 #96
Both male AND female bashing wow...and this dad tirade is government bashing lunasun Nov 2013 #28
I used to read his blog LittleGirl Nov 2013 #33
Yes he himself now is a cartoon. Possible ODS would be my diagnosis lunasun Nov 2013 #44
tweeting and raping are on the same level??? wow. . .just. . .wow. won't say what I think should niyad Nov 2013 #41
Another taken out of content quote. Have you actually bothered to read what he wrote? idwiyo Nov 2013 #65
Mr. Adams sounds like a nutcase Skittles Nov 2013 #77
How We Die: Reflections of Life's Final Chapter kydo Nov 2013 #19
hot damn... i love it ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2013 #21
But Scott, those are the politicians *you* vote for. knightmaar Nov 2013 #23
Guessing no = He just can blame "the gubermint " now even if it is one he voted in!!! lunasun Nov 2013 #30
^this geardaddy Nov 2013 #32
Yes, his complaint should be with the RW politicians who only care about the unborn fetus and then Fla Dem Nov 2013 #43
My Father kchamberlin25 Nov 2013 #24
welcome to DU renate Nov 2013 #45
There is money to be made in long, lingering deaths meadowlark5 Nov 2013 #29
I have been deeply affected and had my eyes opened by "How Doctors Die" Sheepshank Nov 2013 #34
This is very close to home. peace13 Nov 2013 #35
I agree, but there would have to be some controls. redstatebluegirl Nov 2013 #38
... how horrible renate Nov 2013 #46
People in town still think she is perfect and such a "sweet person" redstatebluegirl Nov 2013 #47
I sat in the hospital and watched my father die, very slowly, from AML. apnu Nov 2013 #49
My (and many others, I'm sure) condolences to you and yours. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2013 #66
If he doesn't have his mental faculties anymore, then SOMEONE has medical power of attorney kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #53
There's a lot of conditions where the person can still linger and linger and linger jeff47 Nov 2013 #68
this is WHY we need death panels + we need to LET GO. pansypoo53219 Nov 2013 #56
my mother is 84 and wonders all the time why she is still here. n/t. okieinpain Nov 2013 #64
I'm angry too Holly_Hobby Nov 2013 #67
Scott Adams is a capitaliist misogynist tool but even a tool is right sometimes. hunter Nov 2013 #75

TBF

(31,922 posts)
1. That's actually a really good argument.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:49 AM
Nov 2013

Went through this with a family member earlier this year. Thankfully she had a living will so it was easier on her heirs to pull the plug. What an experience though ... I don't wish it on anyone.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
2. A hospice can make a great difference
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:55 AM
Nov 2013

by letting a person die in peace with enough pain medication to prevent suffering.
My father-in-law was transferred from his hospital room to a hospice, and it helped more than we could have imagined.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
6. Not all Hospices are equal though. The one my
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:13 AM
Nov 2013

mother was in was similar to a converted storage room and the staff never turned music on for her and sat staring at computers all of the time in the hallway.

grilled onions

(1,957 posts)
70. Some Are For Profit...
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:13 PM
Nov 2013

some will only help administer pain meds IF the patient drops all other venues of hope(some truly believe they can extend their life by continuing other treatments)but this is not allowed by many of them. Others are truly voluntary and will not turn you away for financial or other reasons. You must do your homework on this and it is difficult when you have so many other issues on your plate at a time like this.

sinkingfeeling

(51,278 posts)
42. And not everybody dies in hospice. My mother is now 3 years out of hospice and
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nov 2013

is even more tortured than this man's father. She has her mind and knows how miserable her life as a blind, bed-ridden person is.

spinbaby

(15,073 posts)
55. It would almost be a blessiing to lose one's mind
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:48 PM
Nov 2013

My grandmother in-law spend the last three years of her 100-year life in a nursing home. Her mind was still sharp when she went in, but years in an institution left her confused. Most of the problem was that she was bored witless--she couldn't see or hear well enough to even watch TV. A hearing aid would have helped, but they reasoned that it was a waste of money because, you know, she was almost 100. She could have read with decent magnification but she was almost 100, so it seemed like a waste of money. She had to eat pureed food because an aide accidentally threw out her dentures and it didn't seem worthwhile to get her another set. Her quality of life absolutely sucked when it could have been improved in so many ways. Every day they got her up, dressed her, and sat her in a chair in front of the TV she couldn't see or hear. At the end of the day they put her to bed. And all her children kept buying her doodads she didn't want and couldn't use when she needed a damn hearing aid. I still get angry thinking about it.

yodermon

(6,143 posts)
3. holy shit:
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:59 AM
Nov 2013
And let me say this next part as clearly as I can.

If you're a politician who has ever voted against doctor-assisted suicide, or you would vote against it in the future, I hate your fucking guts and I would like you to die a long, horrible death. I would be happy to kill you personally and watch you bleed out. I won't do that, because I fear the consequences. But I'd enjoy it, because you motherfuckers are responsible for torturing my father. Now it's personal.

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
9. As a person who had a mother who died of Alzheimer's, I totally agree with him.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:18 AM
Nov 2013

when my mom put together a living will she specified that nothing was to be done to "keep her alive" and she had stated in the will that if it appeared as if she wasn't going to get better and she was still of reasonable sound mind she would want assisted suicide, but of course our stone age society frowned upon that part and didn't allow it.

She died peacefully at a hospice.

We treat our more humane to our animals that we are to ourselves.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
17. I know exactly how he feels.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:15 PM
Nov 2013

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

When my father finally passed, months after he begged to be allowed to take a 'walk with his luger', in fact, many months after he couldn't take a step at all... the relief on his face as he passed... Difficult to express in text.

And there was nothing we could do. Some pain can't even be suppressed with morphine.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
73. I'm not judging and please feel free to ignore my question if its too personal/painful
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:08 PM
Nov 2013

Why didn't your father get the chance to take that walk with his gun?

I am so sorry you all suffered for so long.

I ask because I know I'd definitely be one of those who would choose to take that walk.


((Hug))

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
78. Under state law at the time, it would not have been hard to prove we
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:07 AM
Nov 2013

enabled it, if we had.

Even now, under the state doctor assisted suicide laws, there is a process, an evaluation, and the end is administered by drug, never gunshot.

In better times, dad would never have asked us to risk jail, death benefits/retirement for mom, etc, to help him in that way. I wish it had been otherwise...

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
87. I try not to engage in jingoism, but
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:25 AM
Nov 2013

I really do love Washington State. I wouldn't live anywhere else. We weren't the first on physician-assisted suicide, or same sex marriage, but we are near the head of the pack, and the fact that people here, my closest neighbors, will never have to go through something like that (unless they choose to) is what gives me peace.

This is a very progressive state, and that protection of the individual, by a large group of people gives me hope. (Where otherwise I'm a hopeless cynic.)

Edit: And thank you.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
7. A lot of this is because of the way our medical system has evolved.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:14 AM
Nov 2013

People no longer have the old-fashioned "family doctor" who may have treated them for many years. They see a "name on a list of approved physicians". They get a fast shuffle when they have an appointment.. or the follow the path of many.. they go to the ER and take whomever is on call.

I have NO DOUBT (and have been told directly by a few candid doctors over the years) that things were "taken care of" in the privacy of the home, back when house calls were the norm.

A baby born with serious defects was often "stillborn"... a seriously injured farmer would be administered "too much" morphine... a "feeble" old person would be "helped" with their passing.

This was before there were crowed ERs with many eyes & ears observing...or HMOs/hospitals with "review boards".

These days one is almost required to linger..

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
12. Got that right
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:23 AM
Nov 2013

the upscale warehouses are $4000-$6000 per month for each resident. Lots of money to be made off them.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
13. Yes, when lifetime caps were reached, suddenly the patient died.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:24 AM
Nov 2013

Maybe Obamacare (and Medicare) actually NEED death panels....

geardaddy

(24,924 posts)
31. Yep, he's a libertarian creep.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:48 PM
Nov 2013

But I agree that we should allow people to decide when and how they want to die.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
59. Who else should he blame? Me? You? Or arseholes who vote against euthanasia?
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:53 PM
Nov 2013

As far as I am aware, MPs here in UK, ans senators & congressman ARE the Government. All of them are institutionalised torture enabling arseholes, every single one of them who ever voted against euthanasia.

I don't wish them to die, I wish that every fucking one of them live for a day in horrific pain knowing it will never end until they are dead, and knowing they will not die for a long, long time. Just one fucking day.

This is also how I feel about people who support torture for any reason. Every single one of them should voluntarily submit to several sessions of waterboarding, done properly. By properly I mean water in the lungs, and not stopped when they ask for it but carried at least for a few minutes each time. I'd love to hear how they sing after.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
37. "devolved" might be a better word. at one time, doctors might actually have cared about "healing".
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:02 PM
Nov 2013

these days, it is, ostensibly, about "curing", which is an entirely different thing.

years ago, there was a made-for-tv movie about such a doctor in a small town. if I remember the story correctly, a new young doctor comes into the town, and gradually begins to realize what the older doctor had been doing (this was long before the katharine hepburn movie "grace quigley&quot . Don't remember much more of it, but thought it very interesting.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
54. Torture for profit. Every one of us has or is going to go through this.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:09 PM
Nov 2013

If it weren't for religion we would be free to do the right thing.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
57. I am thankful there is Dignitas and I am close enough to be able to make it there.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:39 PM
Nov 2013

Assuming I am mobile or someone will take me there. I started to look for work in Belgium and Netherlands exactly because of this issue (they are in EU, easy to move there and both allow GP assisted euthanasia).

But it makes me very angry that I can not die as and when I decide to do so here, at home in UK.

Never mind anyone who doesn't have means to go to Dignitas or move.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
58. They got my mother and my little sister. They tortured mom for months while draining her assets.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:49 PM
Nov 2013

My sister was younger and had less, so she was only tortured for a few days but they did deny her pain meds, just in case she was faking the cancer to get a fix.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
60. That's horrific. I am so sorry. I wish there was something I could do.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:00 PM
Nov 2013

I can't stop crying after I read your post. I only witnessed one person dying from cancer (my neighbour, before I came to UK) and at the end they refused to increase his dose of morphine because "he might get addicted or die from overdose". He died screaming, for days. loud enough I could hear him from outside. I will never forget him.



 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
61. Thank you. It is horrific and most people refuse to even talk about it.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:12 PM
Nov 2013

The naked barbarism that has overtaken and dominates this nation is just shocking.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
63. I will talk about it, and I will and do support every effort to make euthansia legal.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:25 PM
Nov 2013

I give money, and I talk to others to explain why and how. I personally convinced some people to support the issue, and I know that some of them managed to convince others. It will be done just like that, one person at a time, but it will be done. We already have politicians who support this issue. We will vote more of them in.

Hugs.

REP

(21,691 posts)
69. My father was kept from morphine addiction when he was dying of bone cancer
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:04 PM
Nov 2013

It was bone cancer of the spinal column, a particularly painful form of a notoriously painful cancer, and the fucking hospice nurses didn't want him to become addicted to morphine. God forbid he spend the last months of his life in anything less than unending agony if it kept him from addiction.

I hate those people, too.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
72. I can't describe how sorry I am. This is beyond horrific, knowing it's not just one person but many
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:01 PM
Nov 2013

who were, and are tortured just as my neighbour was. Am crying again after reading your post.

Hugs to you and my apologies that there was nothing that could be done to help your father to have a painless and dignified death.


REP

(21,691 posts)
74. Thanks; it was nearly 20 years ago
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:20 PM
Nov 2013

I keep thinking, "things must be better now" but no, they're not.

I do not understand this "life, no matter what cost to the person suffering it" mentality. And by cost, my first thought isn't money, though the monetary cost is a tremendous burden and source of suffering to the patient and family, too. My father wanted to end his life, but that would have voided his life insurance and left his widow even further in debt, so he got to experience the full glory of his disease. He survived much longer than his doctors expected him to.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
79. There may have been a misunderstanding.
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:12 AM
Nov 2013

My father had a different form of cancer, but I have been told morphine doesn't actually block the pain from bone cancer. In fact, at least as far as I've been told; nothing does. Do I have that wrong?

It's apparently the single most painful way to go, I am so sorry. My dad's passing wasn't entirely painless, but we were able to manage it to a significant degree. I both can, and cannot imagine...

REP

(21,691 posts)
80. There was no misunderstanding.
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:24 AM
Nov 2013

Morphine and fentanyl doesn't block it; they control it to some degree. His pain was not adequately controlled.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
81. That seems absolutely inhumane...
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:33 AM
Nov 2013

It's still widespread too... I can't believe only three states allow this option by law..

Good grief.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
22. Not really with Alzheimer's Disease
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
Nov 2013

Often the body remains strong, but the mind becomes increasingly child-like and - depending on the flavor - violent or otherwise hard to control. That means restraints (pharmaceutical or physical) are often needed to keep the person safe. And - it also means that it is virtually impossible for a loving family member to care for a person with Alzheimer's without a tremendous 24-hour a day support system.

(I don't know the details of Scott Adams' father - but I have some experience with Alzheimer's disease)

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
14. Some hospitals have "palliative" care - pain relief to ease passing
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:33 AM
Nov 2013

During my Dad's final days when the family decided that he would not survive or respond to treatment of his underlying illness, the hospital offered to move him to their palliative care ward. It was much like hospice - and in fact when he was transferred into the hospice program, he stayed in the same ward, in the same bed with many of the same caregivers. Hospice added another layer of assistance to Dad and to the family as well as expertise in easing his passage.

The treatment consisted of giving medications for pain and to keep him calm. Dad was strong - it took six days for him to fade. But at the end he went peacefully with as little pain as possible.

If Scott Adams was not offered an alternative such as this, the hospital he dealt with needs to move into the twenty first century.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
15. We fixed this a few years ago in Washington State.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:12 PM
Nov 2013

This is an issue the Catholic Church LEADS the pack in fighting against. They spend millions nationwide opposing it. They preach against it to their captive audiences in the churches. It's a political issue and on these grounds alone, I would see their tax exemption revoked, if I had my way.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
48. Alas, churches ARE allowed to support or oppose ballot measures. Just not candidates.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:45 PM
Nov 2013

Look at the Mormons (followed closely by the Catholics) and Prop H8 in CA.

It may, however, surprise you to learn that by no means all of the opposition to physician-assisted suicide comes from the religious wrong. The disability rights community is concerned that the "right to die" might quickly become a "duty to die".

http://dredf.org/public-policy/assisted-suicide/why-assisted-suicide-must-not-be-legalized/

Assisted suicide strikes many people, when they first hear about it, as a cause to support. But upon closer inspection, there are many reasons why legalization is a serious mistake. Supporters focus on superficial issues of choice and self-determination. It is crucial to look deeper. Legalizing assisted suicide would not increase choice and self-determination, despite the assertions of its proponents. It would actually augment real dangers that negate genuine choice and control.

The disability community’s opposition is based on the dangers to people with disabilities and the devaluation of disabled peoples’ lives that result from assisted suicide. Further, this opposition stems from factors that directly impact the disability community as well as all of society. These factors include the secrecy in which assisted suicide operates today, even where it is legal; the lack of robust oversight and the absence of investigation of abuse; the reality of who uses it; the dangers of legalization to further erode the quality of the U.S. health care system; and its potential for other significant harms.

In view of this reality, we address many of the disability-related effects of assisted suicide, while also encompassing the larger social context that inseparably impacts people with disabilities as well as the broader public. First, after addressing common misunderstandings, we examine fear and bias toward disability, and the deadly interaction of assisted suicide and our profit-driven health care system. Second, we review the practice of assisted suicide in Oregon, the first U.S. state to legalize it, and debunk the merits of the so-called Oregon model. By detailing significant problems with Oregon’s supposed safeguards, we raise some of its real dangers, particularly for people with depression and other psychiatric disabilities. Third and finally, we explore the ways that so-called “narrow” assisted suicide proposals can easily expand. This article focuses primarily on conditions in the United States, though much of our discussion also applies in other countries.

In short, we must separate our private wishes for what we each may hope to have available for ourselves some day—a hope that often fails to understand how assisted suicide actually operates—and, rather, focus on the significant dangers of legalizing assisted suicide as public policy in our society today. Assisted suicide would have many unintended consequences.


Disclaimer: I have worked with the author in the past. I can assure you that she is as progressive as any of us.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
50. True, there is additional sectors of opposition.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:03 PM
Nov 2013

But the Church is by far the biggest, money and vote-wise. As a single entity anyway.

ZRT2209

(1,357 posts)
16. "women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children...
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:14 PM
Nov 2013
http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/

The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It’s just easier this way for everyone. You don’t argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn’t eat candy for dinner. You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tells you she’s only making 80 cents to your dollar. It’s the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles. -Scott Adams

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
26. Yeah, this really has little relevance here
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:35 PM
Nov 2013

Sometimes, even if a person has been a dick to you in the past, you don't kick them when they are down.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
40. sorry, got that wrong. the man is a misogynistic creep, and his feelings for his father do not
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:18 PM
Nov 2013

change that. glad his father passed out of his personal hell, finally, but this woman-hating monster is still here, and we do not forget that.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
51. Fair enough, to raise ancillary issues.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:04 PM
Nov 2013

If he's going to get on a public soapbox, his character is on the line. (And I did not know about this issue)

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
88. Monster? Jesus fucking christ try to grow some god damned empathy could ya
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:27 AM
Nov 2013

He says some dumb fucking things and he is a MONSTER. For fucks sake how stupid can you get? I am curious?

niyad

(112,435 posts)
90. there is a difference between dumb and hateful. you are free to make whatever assessment you
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:57 AM
Nov 2013

like, as I am. remdi95.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
62. Sorry, this was taken out of context and misinterpreted by someone who can not read.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

Here is the link to his follow-up post that also has a copy of original. See for yourself:

http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/im_a_what/

niyad

(112,435 posts)
76. sorry, I read the whole damned thing, and it was disgusting, no matter how he tried to weasel
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:46 PM
Nov 2013

his way out of it. I loved his explanation for pulling down his comments--because we are all too stupid to understand what he is actually saying. uh, no, scott, we understood you perfectly.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/03/24/scott-adams-to-mens-rights-activists-dont-bother-arguing-with-women-theyre-like-children/

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
82. Unfortunately there is no cure for willful blindness, and I am not talking about Mr Adams here.
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 03:04 AM
Nov 2013

I am also not sure why you keep posting links to someone else' opinions instead of posting a link to the Mr Adams' blog.

Don't know about you, but I prefer to go to the original data if it's available. Specifically in this case because even the meaning of the quote in question did not match what you and others claim it to be.

And here is follow-up post that includes the entire copy of the original post:

http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/im_a_what/

ZRT2209

(1,357 posts)
18. Dilbert Creator Scott Adams Weighs In On Rape
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:17 PM
Nov 2013
http://jezebel.com/5813290/dilbert-creator-scott-adams-weighs-in-on-rape-now

This time, Adams is talking about the "natural instincts" of men which, in case you didn't know, are apparently to rape, cheat, to be "offensive", etc.

Since the idea of dissecting another one of these tirades is largely exhausting, let's look at a few particularly "awesome" quotes:

Powerful men have been behaving badly, e.g. tweeting, raping, cheating, and being offensive to just about everyone in the entire world. The current view of such things is that the men are to blame for their own bad behavior. That seems right. Obviously we shouldn't blame the victims. I think we all agree on that point. Blame and shame are society's tools for keeping things under control.

The part that interests me is that society is organized in such a way that the natural instincts of men are shameful and criminal while the natural instincts of women are mostly legal and acceptable. In other words, men are born as round pegs in a society full of square holes. Whose fault is that? Do you blame the baby who didn't ask to be born male? Or do you blame the society that brought him into the world, all round-pegged and turgid, and said, "Here's your square hole"?

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
27. I'm glad you pointed this out.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:36 PM
Nov 2013

While I feel sorry for Adams' father, I don't feel the least bit sorry for that misogynistic piece of shit. Matter of fact, I won't say what I really wish for Scott Adams - let me just stipulate that it's not pleasant.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
39. I don't owe you any explanation for my opinion.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:08 PM
Nov 2013

Scott Adams is a fucking misogynistic jerk, and I don't have any compassion for that asshole. Fuck him.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
85. No one owes anyone anything.
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:18 AM
Nov 2013

Obviously you have a path and are commited to walking it. I hope it serves you well.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
71. when my adversary is a misogynistic jerk who denies my humanity, my right to existence, claiims
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:49 PM
Nov 2013

that rape is on the same level as tweeting--guess what?? I don't have to feel one ATOM of compassion for him, no matter what he is going through. and no, I am not even going to pretend to "higher standards" or anything of the sort. he denies me and my existence? the ONLY thing I feel for him is this benediction, "may he receive everything he deserves".

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
86. That is certainly one perspective
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:21 AM
Nov 2013

It is not one I share but it is clear that you are committed to it.

For myself, I have found that compassion for my adversaries has healed some of my own grievous hurts. I suppose that this cannot work for everyone.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
28. Both male AND female bashing wow...and this dad tirade is government bashing
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:37 PM
Nov 2013

But in the dad/hospital formula it seems there are a lot of private entities he just ignored...hmmmm
sounds so familiar ...............

"Scott Adams, remember, defended the Republican official who photoshopped Obama's face on a chimp head as "so non-racist." This guy is like if every College Republican chapter president in the world and the most insufferable students in your undergraduate philosophy class, plus fifty-thousand copies of Atlas Shrugged, combined into a voltron and started a blog."

http://gawker.com/5794777/dilbert-creator-defends-gwyneth-paltrow-from-privileged-black-woman

http://jezebel.com/5792583/dilbert-creator-pretends-to-be-his-own-biggest-fan-on-message-boards
Scott Adams, creator of the great comic strip Dilbert, is sort of a prick. He is a horrible boss, and recently penned a charming misogynist rant comparing women to children begging for candy. Now we learn he likes to bash critics on message boards under a pseudonym.

He really should just stick to office politics imo........

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
33. I used to read his blog
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:52 PM
Nov 2013

and then something happened a few years ago and I can't remember why, but I stopped reading it. Thanks for the links as they confirmed that he is indeed a dick. ( I think it the 08 election racism that made me stop).

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
44. Yes he himself now is a cartoon. Possible ODS would be my diagnosis
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:32 PM
Nov 2013

as it's onset coincides with events
but he has a lot of other platforms that say "always been that way"!

niyad

(112,435 posts)
41. tweeting and raping are on the same level??? wow. . .just. . .wow. won't say what I think should
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:19 PM
Nov 2013

happen to this woman-hating piece of filth, but may he receive everything he deserves.

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
65. Another taken out of content quote. Have you actually bothered to read what he wrote?
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 04:40 PM
Nov 2013

You know, his original post.

I did, just a few minutes ago and I agree with what he wrote. His post is not even remotely excusing rape or supports such behaviour.

kydo

(2,679 posts)
19. How We Die: Reflections of Life's Final Chapter
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:20 PM
Nov 2013

Written by Dr. Sherwin Nuland

A runaway bestseller and National Book Award winner, Sherwin Nuland's How We Die has become the definitive text on perhaps the single most universal human concern: death. This new edition includes an all-embracing and incisive afterword that examines the current state of health care and our relationship with life as it approaches its terminus. It also discusses how we can take control of our own final days and those of our loved ones.


I read it a long time ago when it was first published. Excellent book.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
21. hot damn... i love it
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:22 PM
Nov 2013

i HATE that he and his family suffered as they did. but i love that he was able to communicate his disgust. and i am glad his father passed... because he's 100% correct : it is a living hell.

i hope when i get to that stage where life holds nothing for me but pain and decline that somewhere, someone, has the temerity to 'accidentally' pull the plug and let me rest. i want people to remember me as more than a dried up husk of a person rotting in their last moments of life...

sP

knightmaar

(748 posts)
23. But Scott, those are the politicians *you* vote for.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:26 PM
Nov 2013

The guy is a pretty extreme right wing, pro-Romney, anti "socialist Obama" guy, isn't he?

Until something happens to him and those he loves.

I feel sad for him, but he has to realize that the reason the U.S. has laws against euthanasia is because of precisely the politicians who guts he now hates, who are also precisely the politicians he's been advocating for.

I hope this means he has a change of heart, but it may be a very narrow one.

Fla Dem

(23,351 posts)
43. Yes, his complaint should be with the RW politicians who only care about the unborn fetus and then
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nov 2013

FU until a person is laying on their death bed pleading to be be let go peacefully. Then it's oh no, we must do nothing to hasten their passing, the sanctity of life don't you know. In between, no support and no caring for those same human beings in need. Keep people alive well past the point they would naturally pass on, all at the behest of the religious right and medical/pharma industrial complex. These are the politicians he should be aiming his rants at.

kchamberlin25

(84 posts)
24. My Father
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:31 PM
Nov 2013

My father took his own life at age 85 because he was in so much pain and couldn't stand the thought of someone having to take care of him.

meadowlark5

(2,795 posts)
29. There is money to be made in long, lingering deaths
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:40 PM
Nov 2013

He says his father's estate pays our $8000 per month to keep him housed in his suffering. That's A LOT of money! No wonder congress won't vote to allow assisted suicide. They probably have friends in the hospice/assisted living/nursing home business. Can't cut off their profits by ending a suffering old person's life too soon.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
34. I have been deeply affected and had my eyes opened by "How Doctors Die"
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:56 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds–from 5 percent to 15 percent–albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or surgical treatment. Medicare didn’t spend much on him.

It’s not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And they don’t die like the rest of us. What’s unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But they go gently.

................

Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call “futile care” being performed on people. That’s when doctors bring the cutting edge of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words that vary only slightly, “Promise me if you find me like this that you’ll kill me.” They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions stamped “NO CODE” to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I have even seen it as a tattoo.



It's about final peace.
 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
35. This is very close to home.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:56 PM
Nov 2013

For over four years my sister has watched her body melt from under her. When she could still talk she would beg us to push her in front of a truck. And now....a once vibrant 50 year old woman is in a wheel chair unable to move but a finger. Her words are garbled and her look is one of disbelief.

For several years she prayed and waited for her miracle. After that came the 'please I want to be in heaven why won't god come for me?'

People say that I am brave and wonderful for taking care of her but I always correct them. She is the brave one! She is the one who has to deal, while the rest of us can simply walk out of the room.

How this will end only time will tell. Hospice has been with her for two years now. I wait for their guidance. Who can say what the future holds?

My only word of advice is pick your POA carefully. We think of it as 'end of life only' but that is not true. Things can go terribly wrong and stay that way for years.

Peace and love to all who are suffering today. May each find peace, Kim

redstatebluegirl

(12,264 posts)
38. I agree, but there would have to be some controls.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:05 PM
Nov 2013

We watched my step mother literally starve my Dad to death and we couldn't do a thing. Nobody believed us, he lived in the little nasty town I was raised in and she had a dual personality, still does (she is too mean to die). She and her kids decided it was costing too much of his money for him to keep living.

I agree that when they reach a point you should have the right to decide it is time to check out, but if you have any money at all be careful of the lecherous relatives sitting around like vultures waiting for you to die.

We found out about the holding his food from a caregiver after he died. He should not have gone like that.

renate

(13,776 posts)
46. ... how horrible
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:41 PM
Nov 2013

I am so sorry for your loss. And for having to watch something like that happen and be helpless to fix it. How awful it must be to have such a vile person in your life.

redstatebluegirl

(12,264 posts)
47. People in town still think she is perfect and such a "sweet person"
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:44 PM
Nov 2013

My siblings have to live there still and listen to people say she is great and we are awful for saying these terrible things about her. We are still going after her in court for money, not because we want it, but because we don't want her to have it. I know is sounds vindictive, but it was really hard watching all of that and not being able to help.

apnu

(8,722 posts)
49. I sat in the hospital and watched my father die, very slowly, from AML.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:02 PM
Nov 2013

He was in a coma for the last 2 weeks of his life, his body was on auto-pilot and couldn't be considered as "living" by any human being's standards. I sat there with him as he breathed his last, and I was glad he was at peace after that. Nobody should suffer like that.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
66. My (and many others, I'm sure) condolences to you and yours.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:07 PM
Nov 2013

Those of us that have gone through this know what it's like.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
53. If he doesn't have his mental faculties anymore, then SOMEONE has medical power of attorney
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 02:08 PM
Nov 2013

and is permitted to make decisions about his care. That someone has the right to end heroics and put him into hospice care, providing comfort care only. So that he need not linger and linger and linger.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
68. There's a lot of conditions where the person can still linger and linger and linger
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:39 PM
Nov 2013

despite the pain and the inevitability of death.

For example, alzheimer's kills a very long time after the patient is gone mentally. A lot of people can manage to survive for a very long time with a fatal disease.

This isn't just about people not being in pain "while nature takes its course". People should have options to accelerate that course.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
67. I'm angry too
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:31 PM
Nov 2013

My mother has been laying flat on her back in a nursing home for 5-1/2 years due to psychiatric drug induced Parkinson's. She has no assets, so her care is paid by Medicare, to the tune of $231,000 as of this writing. She doesn't want to be here, she hasn't wanted to be here since she begged me not to put her in a nursing home. She lost bowel control and couldn't walk, so there really was no other choice. The last thing I do before drifting off to sleep at night is hope it will be her last. She's 79.

When it was time to go for my dogs, one shot into a vein was all it took and they went peacefully. No pain, no suffering, no nothing.

My friend in Oregon was able to watch her mother peacefully go by doctor-administered Seconal when ALS left her unable to swallow.

Why can't we be humane in Ohio?

hunter

(38,264 posts)
75. Scott Adams is a capitaliist misogynist tool but even a tool is right sometimes.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:32 PM
Nov 2013

When my grandma was dying of cancer, mets to her brain and everywhere else, she asked my brother if he could bring her some pot to smoke. They sometimes smoked together, in the "long term" hospital wing... hah! (All my brothers are much more reckless fellows than I!)

My situation with my grandma was a little complicated. My grandma sometimes thought I was her father. I don't look like him at all but maybe I sounded like him, and share some mannerisms.

We talked about airplanes. Such a wondrous thing flying must have been when she was a kid, and she married an Army Air Force Officer (promoted to Major during World War II) who later was an engineer for the Apollo moon project.

Sometimes she thought we were waiting at the airport. In a way, we were.


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