Here Are All the Weapons Police Found in George Zimmerman’s Florida Residence

[CatWoman]

Following George Zimmerman’s recent arrest for alleged domestic abuse against girlfriend Samantha Scheibe, police conducted a search of the house where the couple had been staying that uncovered a large cache of weapons and ammunition.

According to CNN, court documents filed Monday show that authorities recovered three handguns, a 12-gauge shotgun, an AR-15 rifle and 106 rounds of ammunition, including two AR-15 magazines.


In addition, police also cataloged three handgun holsters, a religious pendant, a flashlight, a pocket knife, sanitizing wipe, a soft-sided gun case, a combination lock, and, for reason, a pack of gum.

Zimmerman was released in $9,000 bail last week, but he was required by the judge in the case to stay 1,500 feet away from his accuser, wear an electronic ankle monitor and relinquish all weapons until the matter is resolved.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/here-are-all-the-weapons-police-found-in-george-zimmermans-florida-residence/

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. Yep...he's no threat.

Not at all.

Just a hunter.

[Blue_Tires]

2. Fuckin' wannabe tough guy...

[Phlem]

39. No shit

put him on a room with someone who has PTSD from abuse. No weapons, guns, sticks, rocks, or fucking chewing gum and see how long he lasts.

Piece of shit.

-p

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Maybe it was exploding gum

maybe it was part of a box labeled "Macgiver shit".

[Lochloosa]

32. Maxwell Smart had exploding gum....I'm sure of it.

[Niceguy1]

4. I hate zimmy

But that isn't a "large cache"...

[Skittles]

6. it is considering he has already murdered someone

[Skittles]

5. I really detest him being called a "ticking time bomb"

honey, that bomb went off the evening he stalked and murdered an unarmed teenager

[mstinamotorcity2]

8. I am with you on that one.

I feel no sympathy for him or any of his cohorts. Anyone who takes the death of someone's child and use it for monetary gain, lose all respect from me. especially when they are the culprits of the fatality.

[arcane1]

17. Indeed, that time bomb has TICKED!

[Scootaloo]

28. Killing black people doesn't count

It's only when he guns down a white blonde girl that the "bomb goes off"

[lunasun]

127. +1

[Stargazer09]

35. More like a cuckoo clock

Keeps going off until someone stops pulling the chains.

[Skittles]

40. that is a great analogy

yes INDEED

[Enthusiast]

46. +1 a whole bunch.......nt

[gollygee]

58. +1

No doubt.

[Demo_Chris]

82. Bingo. nt

[JI7]

7. FUCKING COWARD PIECE OF SHIT LOSER

[Whisp]

33. you are correct.

[Quixote1818]

9. The religious pendant exonerates him

Or as they say, patriotism is the last refuge scoundrel. Or in this case, a religious pendant is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[riverwalker]

25. St. Testes medal

Patron saint of shriveled gonad gun humping punk assed chicken shit losers.

[Stargazer09]

36. St. Testes!?!?!

I just sprayed water on my keyboard!

[Initech]

44. DUzy!!!!

[HereSince1628]

48. And the sanitizing wipes wash away the bad.

[NuclearDem]

10. Let me fix this up a little bit:

Zimmerman was released in $9,000 bail last week, but he was required by the judge in the case to stay 1,500 feet away from his accuser, wear an electronic ankle monitor and relinquish all weapons for the rest of his life.

Much better!

[TroglodyteScholar]

11. So they didn't find the storage locker with the rest of his weapons?

You don't seriously think this guy coughed up everything.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. indeed. The lying scheming piece of shit has the rest of his arsenal elsewhere.

[intheflow]

22. His father's and brother's homes, I'd guess. n/t

[JI7]

12. it makes them feel "tough and manly" and shit

why is it usually the dumbest piece of shits who think they are some tough types being armed like this ?

do they know how fucking stupid they look to many people ?

fucking loser coward shits.

[aikoaiko]

54. Do you really think that of everyone with a shotgun, rifle and 3 handguns?

Or are you just venting about Zimmerman.

[EOTE]

57. I certainly do.

Even if you're an ardent "supporter" of the 2nd amendment, no one needs an arsenal like that. Do assholes like that think they're living in "Red Dawn" or some shit like that? Considering how much more likely it is to injure yourself or others with the guns that you own than actually defending you or your family, I'd say that there's a fairly inverse correlation between the number of guns owned and one's IQ.

[aikoaiko]

59. Different firearms are better in different situations and some people have collections.

Most shootings involve only one firearm per person. I'm not sure why owning more than a couple is so bothersome.

To each their own.

Full disclosure: I own a few more than Zim. All locked.

[Jenoch]

71. Exactly how many guns is considered an 'arsenal'?

[EOTE]

72. Again, I think there is an inverse correlation between number of guns owned and IQ.

I'm willing to give a lot of people a pass on owning one. However, in my experience every gun beyond that is a pretty definitive blow to the owner's intelligence. I've certainly never known anyone I'd consider to be smart who owned more than one gun (in fact, I might not know any smart people who own even one gun). As to what is considered an arsenal, well that's really beside the point, but perhaps 5 or more and the accompanying ammunition.

[Jenoch]

77. What about owning guns as a collection?

My father owns both an M1 Garand and an M1 Carbine. He used guns like these in the Korean 'Conflict'.

I have a shotgun for waterfowl hunting. I have a different gauge shotgun for grouse hunting. I have a deer hunting rifle. I have a .22 rifle. Each of these guns is for different uses. It would be ridiculous to think that only one gun should be owned by someone pursuing their hobby.

[EOTE]

78. I suppose properly secured collections are alright.

Properly secured is key there, but I tend to think of people with gun collections as those who use them frequently too. Having a few different guns when properly secured for hunting enthusiasts is fine too, but again I don't think most who own multiple guns do so for that purpose. The hunters I've met have only needing one hunting rifle, but I know that doesn't apply to everyone. The fact that guns are more likely to injure or kill loved ones rather than defending them from some psychopath still applies to both of those situations, so I think that anyone who has guns on display or otherwise that aren't nearly impossible for a child or anyone else to access is quite dim.

[Jenoch]

85. My guns are locked up. My father's guns are locked up.

My two older brothers guns are locked up. All inside gun safes.

Not all of them are for hunting. Whether a gun is used for hunting or not has zero relevance to ownership.

By the way, your attempt to judge intelligence by gun ownership is ridiculous, but you knew that.

[EOTE]

86. No it's not, it's from my own personal experience.

Again, in my experience, there is an inverse correlation between number of guns owned and intelligence. You may think that people owning a lot of guns and having them all locked up is common, but I've known a fair number of people who owned multiple guns and I haven't known a single one of them to have them all secured. And the numbers support my assertion as, once again, gun owners are far more likely to injure or kill themselves or loved ones than they are to defend themselves from any attack. That right there tells me all I need to know.

[Jenoch]

87. Exactly how many gun owners,

out of the approximately 80,000,000+ in the U.S. have you met, and where do they live? When introducing stereotypes into a disscussion you leave yourself looking foolish.

[EOTE]

88. Dozens for sure.

And just how many would I need to know for me to have the viewpoint that people who own several devices that are far more likely to kill themselves or a loved one than actually do something to protect them just aren't that bright?

[Jenoch]

89. You are full of stereotypes.

You can have any opinion you wish, that does not make it an accurate assumption on your part.

That whole 'having a gun in the home makes it 70 times more likely that a family member will be shot' has been repeated so many times people such as yourself believe it.

I don't own any guns for self protection.

[EOTE]

90. No, actually these are not stereotypes.

It's not a stereotype to say that those who own guns are far more likely to kill themselves or a loved one than an intruder. That's a fact. I never said anything about "70 times", just that it's far more likely they'd kill or injure themselves or a loved one than it is for them to defend themselves against an intruder. Do you deny this objective fact? I can provide tons to back this up if you'd like, but I kind of have a feeling you're going to ignore whatever I provide.

[CatWoman]

92. fucking "A"

[Jenoch]

94. The stereotype comment was about

you referring to gun owners as lacking in intelligence.

Yes, a gun is less likely to be used against an intruder, but statistically, that is misleading because there are not that many armed intruders invading houses.

[EOTE]

96. That was a conclusion that I've come to.

A conclusion that is based upon many facts. I don't see how that statistic is misleading as it states honestly that the more guns you have in your house, the more in danger you and your loved ones are in. If you consider coming to conclusions to be stereotypes, then EVERYONE has a ridiculous amount of stereotypes. At least my stereotypes are based upon facts and logic.

[Jenoch]

111. The 'more' guns there are?

I thought only one gun was needed for the statistics you (actually, are not) posting?

[EOTE]

112. Would you like me to post them?

It stands to reason that if you're less safe with one gun in your house than you are without one, you're even less safe with more of them. Are you denying that having a gun in your house makes you less safe? Because I can provide plenty of information to back that up. I don't expect you to acknowledge what I provide, but I certainly can.

[Jenoch]

118. My 82 year old father bought his first

shotgun at age 12. He owned many guns all throughout his lifetime including my childhood. Nobody in my family was 'less safe'. The guns were locked up, even back in the 60s and 70s. You can post all of the statistics you wish to. Why don't you post statistics on criminals with guns who shoot each other? Why don't you post statistics about how somebody gets shot at a convenience store but because they had a gun in their house, whoops, they are more likely to be shot because they own a gun. Lifestyle and has more to do with the dangers of a gun in the home rather than the numbers of guns in the home.

[EOTE]

138. So that's a big, resounding no.

You can post all the statistics you want to regarding criminals, the fact is that you're far more likely to shoot yourself or a loved one than to shoot one of those criminals you're going on about. And your convenience store anecdote doesn't hold because if you have a gun in your house, you and your loved ones are more likely to be shot WITH THAT GUN, than you are to defend yourself with it. Certainly lifestyle DOES have a lot to do with this. Gun owners tend to shoot guns a lot more than non-owners do. And as a result of that, they tend to injure themselves or others with it more often than they defend themselves with it. Go figure.

[Jenoch]

145. Are you intentionally being obtuse?

The statistics about a convenience store worker being shot at work while they have a gun at home is a meaningless statistic, yet it is included in your stats.

The criminals I was referring to were not home invaders, they were shooting each other in their homes and bulking up your stats.

I never mentioned any defensive use of guns in the home.

The lifestyles I mentioned was about criminals, not gun owners such as myself who follow the law and keep guns locked up with ammunition locked up separately. (That is a Minnesota law for homes with children in the home.)

[spin]

115. Investors collect firearms because if you know what you are doing investing in firearms ...

can be more profitable than buying gold or investing in the stock market.

Shooting a collectible firearm can decrease its value.

The firearms collectors that I have known usually have large gun safes which alone cost a small fortune. Such people may also enjoy shooting on a regular basis but they use firearms that have little collector value.

[Gravitycollapse]

116. I know someone who is quite intelligent who works for a firearm manufacturer.

Who likely owns dozens if not hundreds of guns. His IQ is easily above pretty much anyone currently discussing this thread.

Literal stupidity is not necessarily related at all to firearm ownership.

[spin]

122. I suspect most people who insult gun owners as being unintelligent ...

live in areas of the nation where gun ownership is uncommon due to strong gun laws and expensive fees.

If you live in "gun friendly" states such as Florida, you find that a lot of very well educated people who hold profession jobs or run their own businesses own firearms and enjoy the shooting sports.

[LanternWaste]

84. Zimmerman's "collection" seems to validly fit well within many of the contemporary definitions of 'a

Zimmerman's "collection" seems to validly fit well within many of the contemporary definitions of the word 'arsenal'.

1. a place of storage or a magazine containing arms and military equipment for land or naval service.
2. a government establishment where military equipment or munitions are manufactured.
3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.
4. a collection or supply of anything; store: He came to the meeting with an impressive arsenal of new research data.


(However, I can readily empathize with the implication that the word's usage should be questioned lest accuracy colors one's opinions...)

[spin]

106. Obviously you have little understanding of the shooting sports. ....

Let's take a look at the "arsenal" a typical shooter will a carry permit might have in Florida.

A quality .22 caliber target pistol such as a Ruger would make sense as .22 caliber ammo is inexpensive and while the recoil of this round is negligible, it allows you to better practice obtaining a correct sight picture and learning trigger management for accurate shooting.

A full sized semi-auto pistol or revolver in 9mm or greater caliber makes sense for home defense and for vehicle carry. (It is legal to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle in Florida without a license as long as it is properly secured in a gun box, snap holster or glove box.)

In Florida the warm temperature means that usually it most comfortable to wear light clothing which makes concealing a full sized handgun somewhat difficult. The most logical solution is to carry a compact firearm which is easy to conceal. Such handguns are not useful or either target shooting or hunting.

A shotgun makes an excellent home defense weapon and can be used for hunting in Florida. A rifle such as an AR-15 can make an excellent hunting weapon and is a good choice for home defense in a rural area. Both can be used for target shooting and a variety of shooting sport competitions.

I would have a difficult time selecting ONLY five of my collection of firearms to own if I was limited to just five.

It easy to stereotype gun owners in the manner you chose:

I'd say that there's a fairly inverse correlation between the number of guns owned and one's IQ.

I known a good number of extremely well educated people who owned a large collection of firearms and enjoyed shooting. I've met doctors, lawyers, engineers and business owners at the pistol ranges I have shot at. Often very intelligent and successful people invest a portion of their wealth in firearms. Firearms, especially antique collectible firearms, may be a better investment than real estate or the stock market. However owning a large number of firearms requires the expenditure of a large amount of money. In general most people with a low IQ do not have a tremendous amount of money to invest in firearms. Therefore I could state that people with a high IQ are more likely to own a large collection of firearms than those with a low IQ.

Nothing I say will change your opinion which is fine. I will agree with you that firearms are extremely dangerous items and we need to improve our gun laws in this nation. You may have good reason to hate gun owners and guns. However if we are ever to make headway in this important issue, I feel both sides need to show a little respect for each other.

[JI7]

136. i'm referring to Zimmerman and all the racist piece of shit fucks who defend him

[eqfan592]

14. That's actually not that many.

I have about 4 times that many, tho most of mine are WW2 vintage surplus firearms (big history buff). And 106 rounds of ammunition only seems like a lot to somebody who has no experience with or around firearms. Hell, most folks by .22 ammo by the brick (500+rounds).

[aznativ]

21. Yea I'm not impressed by those numbers either

I make him look anti-gun...ha. Im a collector too and none of mine have killed anything but wildlife. The WWII weapons prob have slung lead at either the Japanese or Germans and frankly if so hope they got lots of them.

This guy is a real card though- he cant seem to stay out of trouble although I am waiting to see how this all resolves as I think his GF is probably a psycho too.

[aikoaiko]

15. I think there is a very good chance he'll pick up another gun while on bail and do time.

I'm sure.

[madokie]

16. He's pretty stupid

so I wouldn't put it past him at all

[HipChick]

18. He must have a small...

and a pea-size brain..

[malaise]

19. WTF

A mass shooting waiting to happen

[spin]

20. That's sounds fairly typical of a high percentage of homes in Florida. ...

There's nothing particularly unusual about owning a 12 gage shotgun and an AR-15 rifle as both can be used for hunting in Florida. I believe that you can only have a five round magazine in your semi-auto AR-15 (or other semi-auto rifle) while hunting deer but you can hunt hog on private property with a high capacity magazine as these animals are considered pests.

Target shooting is popular in Florida both on rural private property and on ranges. Most target shooters own one .22 caliber handgun and at least one other handgun. It's not uncommon to meet a pistol shooter who has enjoyed the sport for 15 to 20 years and owns 10 or more handguns. (It seems handguns multiply like rabbits in dark safes.)

For 37 years I lived in the Tampa Bay Area of Florida and I would guess that 60 to 70 percent of my co-workers had firearms in their home. A good percentage of the guys I worked with had concealed weapons permits, perhaps 5 to 10 percent. I knew several woman who had carry permits but it was less common for a woman to have such a permit than a man. However many woman carry a loaded handgun in the glove box of their car in Florida which is legal without a license.

I was somewhat surprised that Zimmerman only had 106 rounds of ammo in his house. That's peanuts compared to most gun enthusiasts.

If you live in a large urban area in a state that has strong restrictions on gun ownership and carry, you may have a hard time understanding the popularity of firearms in a state like Florida. It might amaze you that currently there are 1,195,291 individuals in the United States with a Florida concealed weapons permit. !56,954 permits are held by people who live in other states and 1,038,337 are residents of Florida.
(sources: http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/7499/118851/cw_monthly.pdf
http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/7502/118869/cw_active.pdf)

When you consider the adult population of Florida over 21 years old is 12,336,038 than you will realize that 1 in every 12 residents of Florida has a concealed weapons permits.

Oddly despite that fact that we are indeed the "Gunshine" state, our violent crime rate is at an all time low. Go figure. Perhaps more guns does not necessarily mean more crime.

Florida firearm violence hits record low; concealed gun permits up
Debate continues over relationship between guns and crime

By JACOB CARPENTER
Posted January 6, 2013 at 5:15 a.m.

In the so-called Gunshine State, home to the most gun permits in the country, firearm violence has fallen to the lowest point on record.

As state and national legislators consider gun control laws in the wake of last month's Connecticut school shooting, Florida finds itself in a gun violence depression. The Firearm-involved violent crime rate has dropped 33 percent between 2007 and 2011, while the number of issued concealed weapons permits rose nearly 90 percent during that time, state records show....emphasis added

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/06/fla-firearm-violence-hits-record-low/

[jeff47]

62. There's a minor problem with your argument

Zimmerman has not expressed a fondness for hunting or target shooting.

So yes, both a shotgun and an AR-15 would not be odd to find in a hunter's residence. But Zimmerman isn't a hunter. Of animals at least. And pistols would not be unusual for an avid target shooter. But Zimmerman isn't a target shooter.

[spin]

98. The problem with your counterargument is that Zimmerman is not representative ...

of most gun owners in Florida and especially those who have concealed weapons permits. If he actually was, we would probably have at least one Trayvon Martin type shooting every day. Realize that more than 1,000,000 Florida residents have concealed weapons permits at this time.

My point was that prior to the shooting, there was nothing that unusual in Florida about the amount of weapons and ammo that the police found in Zimmerman's home. His "arsenal" was not a red flag.

Since I have spent a lot of time on pistol ranges during my life, most of the shooters that I know enjoy target shooting or hunting. However before i retired I knew a good number of co-workers who did not hunt or target shooti and who had the same number of firearms or more than Zimmerman had. I would ask them if they had ever fired their weapons and when they would admit that they hadn't, I would do my best to try to convince them to come to the range with me. Often, but not always, I was successful. I've also encountered individuals who have carry licenses who rarely practice with their weapons and have no interest in hunting.

I am not and never have been a Zimmerman supporter. I have always viewed him as a cop wanna-be and somewhat of a vigilante. If I were driving down a road on a rainy night, I would never feel an individual who was wearing a hoodie to be unusual. Therefore I would have never called the police, let alone left my truck to pursue this "suspicious" individual. If for some unlikely reason I did call the police, I definitely would have followed any instructions from the dispatcher I contacted. I have a Florida concealed weapons permit but that doesn't make me a cop and I am not a vigilante.

[jeff47]

100. If he's not representative, then why are you arguing that he is?

Your claim is that these guns are not unusual for a "normal" gun owner. Now you are claiming Zimmerman is not a "normal" gun owner.

You should pick one and stay with it.

[spin]

109. The fact that Zimmerman had five firearms is not a red flag in Florida. ...

Many people who have posted in this tread consider this to be an "arsenal" and an indication that he was a hand grenade with a pulled pin.

Zimmerman is not a normal gun owner as he basically went looking for trouble and he found it. If this was typical behavior for a normal gun owner with a concealed weapons permit, we would have shootings similar to the Trayvon Martin incident on at least a daily basis. In fact we might have far more as there are over 1,000,000 Florida residents who have concealed weapons permits. Imagine what would happen if all the people with carry permits in Florida were cop wannabes or vigilantes.

Among gun owners and those who legally carry concealed weapons in Florida, Zimmerman is an aberration.

[flvegan]

23. That's a "large cache" of weapons and ammo?

And...gum!? And a flashlight?? O...M...G... a combination lock. Can we give this guy the chair yet?

[Duckhunter935]

27. dont forget the gum

I have more weapons and ammo than he did. Mine is not a large cache either.

[flvegan]

30. Shit, I'm a vegan and I'd have more than he does

if I wasn't totally happy with my one handgun.

I have no gum, though. Maybe it's the gum.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. I was AFRAID to post that I had rifles in addition to the shotgun and handguns...

And that every three or four days I buy two packs of Wrigleys EXTRA Bubble Gum... in the Classic Flavor no less.

106 rounds? He must be a lights out shooter... confident that every round hits its mark.

Fucker.

Torches. Pitchforks. He deserves nothing less.

To be honest... plenty a woman has been marred physically and mentally by dickheads who possessed far less than Zimmy.

Zimmy got away with what he did because some asshole prosecutor thought he could make a name for himself. Negligent homicide; this asshole goes away for a decade or more... and in the interim he lives in a hell few here could imagine and wouldn't wish on their WORST enemy.

But the gum? Fucker!

[flvegan]

43. What of your sanitizing wipes, freeper?

He had one. If you have one, you are obviously a callous killer of children, women, animals and...other stuff. Did I mention freeper!! *shakes fist*

[cherokeeprogressive]

60. I thought...

I thought I'd hidden the baby wipes. I can't do anything right I swear.

[Blue_Tires]

75. Uh, Zimmerman got away with what he did

because a black teenager's life in FL isn't worth shit as far as the cops, media, jury and general public are concerned...If Martin is white, there is a lightning-fast conviction -- You know it and I know it...So let's cut the bullshit and keep the blame focused on the responsible parties...

And I've still not convinced the prosecutor didn't take a dive and throw the whole case away...

[spin]

117. If Zimmerman got away with murder then blame our legal system and the prosecution ...

in the case.

Under our system it is necessary for the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Obviously I was not on the jury so I didn't hear all the evidence, but I followed the trail and predicted the verdict.

I personally feel that it is quite possible that Zimmerman approached Martin and flashed his concealed weapon in order to intimidate him. (Which is totally illegal in Florida.) If this happened, Martin might have been within his rights to attempt to disarm Zimmerman and it could be argued that Martin was standing his ground.

The problem is that the evidence to support this idea was not there. We also ended up with only one side of the story as "dead men tell no tales." Had Trayvon Martin survived to testify, Zimmerman might be in prison today.

[penultimate]

24. Was it sugar free gum?

[bobclark86]

66. Oh, hell no...

That shit'll kill ya!

[DreamGypsy]

26. From the beginning of his notoriety I thought Zimmerman would turn out to be...

...a gum nut.

[rrneck]

64. I wish I'd said that. nt

[Hoyt]

29. I bet the shotgun was the one given to Zimmy after the trial by the gun manufacturer.

Somebody ought to ask that ignorant gun profiteer how he feels now.

[gopiscrap]

31. Holy shit! THat fucking gundamentalist is a ticking time bomb

and all the gun fetishists and NRA psychos enable him.

[bobclark86]

68. I'd say the fuckface who wrote the law...

letting somebody gun down a teenager after the shooter initiates the confrontation and gets his ass whupped by a 17-year-old string bean with a can of Skittles (or a bag of tea... or something) -- THAT is the person who enabled him.

So yeah, the NRA.

[spin]

119. Do know for sure that what you described is the actual truth of what happened that night? ...

Would the evidence that the prosecution presented have convinced you of Zimmerman's quilt beyond reasonable doubt.

Reasonable doubt

***snip***

The principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' was expounded in: Woolmington v DPP [1935] UKHL 1 [3]
"Juries are always told that if conviction there is to be the prosecution must prove the case beyond reasonable doubt. This statement cannot mean that in order to be acquitted the prisoner must " satisfy " the jury. This is the law as laid down in the Court of Criminal Appeal in R. v. Davies (8 C.A.R. 211) the head-note of which correctly states that where | intent is an ingredient of a crime there is no onus on the Defendant to prove that the act alleged was accidental. Throughout the web of the English Criminal Law one golden thread is always to be seen that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt subject to what I have already said as to the defence of insanity and subject also to any statutory exception. If, at the end of and on the whole of the case, there is a reasonable doubt, created by the evidence given by either the prosecution or the prisoner, as to whether the prisoner killed the deceased with a malicious intention, the prosecution has not made out the case and the prisoner is entitled to an acquittal. No matter what the charge or where the trial, the principle that the prosecution must prove the guilt of the prisoner is part of the common law of England and no attempt to whittle it down can be entertained.

***snip***

United States[edit]
In the United States, juries must be instructed to apply the reasonable doubt standard when determining the guilt or innocence of a criminal defendant, but there is much disagreement as to whether the jury should be given a definition of "reasonable doubt."[10] In Victor v. Nebraska, the U.S. Supreme Court expressed disapproval of the unclear reasonable doubt instructions at issue, but stopped short of setting forth an exemplary jury instruction.[11]
The U.S. Supreme Court first discusses the term in Miles v. United States (1880): "The evidence upon which a jury is justified in returning a verdict of guilty must be sufficient to produce a conviction of guilt, to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt." In re Winship (1970) establishes that the doctrine also applies to juvenile criminal proceedings, and indeed to all the essential facts necessary to prove the crime: "[W]e explicitly hold that the Due Process Clause protects the accused against conviction except upon proof beyond a reasonable doubt of every fact necessary to constitute the crime with which he is charged."
Japan[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

I personally feel it is quite possible that Zimmerman confronted Martin in an aggressive manner and flashed his concealed weapon to intimidate. Martin then would have been totally in his right to attempt to disarm Zimmerman as he would have had reason to fear for his health or his life.

The problem is that had I been on the jury I might have honestly felt that Zimmerman was guilty but still had reasonable doubt. Therefore to fulfill my responsibility as a juror, I would have had to vote that Zimmerman was not guilty. Voting "not guilty" is not the same as declaring a person is totally innocent.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

135. So you fantasize about being on Zimmerman's jury and finding him not guilty?

Damn.

[spin]

148. Not at all. ...

If I had been on the Zimmerman jury I would have listened to the evidence. From what I have seen of the trial, I would have voted not guilty. Had you been on the jury, you might have decided Zimmerman was guilty.

As I explained, our criminal judicial system is set up to require that a person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If I am ever selected as a juror in a criminal trial, it is my job to follow the judge's instructions and if I have any doubt of the defendants quilt, to rule not guilty.

Alan Dershowitz is one one the sharpest legal minds in our nation. What did he think of the Zimmerman verdict.

Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman verdict 'was right'

15 July 2013 Last updated at 02:44 BST

The not guilty verdict for a man accused of killing an unarmed black teenager in Florida was "right", a Harvard law professor has said.

Lawyers for George Zimmerman, 29, successfully argued that he was acting in self-defence when he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

The case has sparked a fierce debate about race relations in the US and protests are being held around the country.

Alan Dershowitz told BBC News that there was "reasonable doubt" about the facts of what happened and blamed a misrepresentation of the facts by the media for the public's expectation of a conviction....emphasis added
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23310953

[gopiscrap]

126. yup

[ReRe]

34. Looks to me...

... like a cache of weapons for a mass shooting.

[Recursion]

37. Not really. Those generally use handguns and a lot of ammo

He does have three handguns, but they didn't say anything about fining a lot of handgun ammo or handgun magazines. 106 rounds is about an hour at the range, and the two AR-15 magazines are usually just what comes with the AR-15 when you buy it.

[ReRe]

38. Really...

... then about how many plastic people targets do you think that monster could have mowed down with those guns (he could have picked up ammo anywhere along the way, right?) Distance plays a role, I guess? Hell, I don't know anything about guns. All I know is that people holding them can kill other people. Even if it was only one gun.

[Recursion]

41. I guess my point is that for someone who owns guns that's a very "normal" collection

he could have picked up ammo anywhere along the way, right?

Worse yet I imagine some racist fuckwit who owns a gunstore would probably give him ammo for free.

My only real point was that that group of guns specifically doesn't seem out of the ordinary, ie, if we didn't know about what he has already done, I doubt law enforcement would have even batted an eye. The AR-15 is the most common rifle in the US today, and like I said two magazines is just what comes with it.

That said, as somebody pointed out upthread, I'd be really surprised if he didn't have some other stash, somewhere.

[spin]

45. If you think that that's a large collection of firearms and ammo then I would agree with what ...

you said about yourself, "Hell, I don't know anything about guns."

I'm not being critical in the least as there are a lot of people who post on DU on issues involving firearms who know absolutely nothing about the subject. I appreciate your honesty in admitting it.

[The Straight Story]

52. pffft my bro-in-law and nephews can go through hundreds of rounds in a weekend

I popped over one Saturday for some target shooting and we had a table full of guns and ammo to test out. Was a blast (I don't own a gun so rarely get to go shooting, but I do enjoy it).

When not in use the lock em up in the gun cabinet. Used for hunting, target shooting, skeet shooting. I still have deer meat in our freezer here my nephew gave us from last year (not overly fond of deer myself, but the mood does hit once in awhile).

My bro-in-law has many older guns (he enjoys collecting them) and a few of the newer ones. Shooting is fun. Different guns don't only have different looks - caliber, precision, recoil, mechanics, etc. If I ever move out to the country can see myself getting quite a few different ones.

I don't see people owning a slew of guns as any more crazy than folks who own a slew of different video games (especially those of the same type/genre...how many pac man variants were there??).

To assume that people have a bunch of guns because they want to do mass shootings is just plain either ignorant or bias based on stereotypes we hold based on what a tiny tiny fraction of people do. Not very scientific or progressive.

[jeff47]

63. Difference is you and yours have expressed a fondness for target shooting

Likewise, the rifles would not be unusual for someone who enjoys hunting.

But Zimmerman has not expressed a fondness for either. So he did not get these guns for "sport".

[The Straight Story]

67. I don't know the motivations

But I do know there seems to be a bias against people owning guns and an assumption of 'guilt' with no evidence on a regular basis in these parts.

When you have less than a percent of over fifty million people doing bad things with something they own it is just plain bias/hate/ignorance to project that onto the entire group (as is so often done). As noted, I don't own a gun. I can't have an abortion either. And being straight gay marriage does not personally involve me. But the common thread to them all is freedom/personal choice.

That is something I can get behind and stay behind because I view it as a progressive ideal (and why should we continually have to fight for something like freedom and why do so many want to keep removing it?).

I mention it because it goes to the core of the issue here. Some folks hate guns, don't want others to have what they don't want, so use their energy to spot light any negative they can and try to have guilt by association. They are not interested in the over forty nine million who do nothing wrong, talking about them would not further their agenda.

[jeff47]

70. If that's your goal, embracing Zimmerman is probably not a good plan.

Since he's demonstrated he is part of that "less than a percent".

[spin]

114. Just because an individual is not opposed to firearm ownership does not mean that ...

he supports Zimmerman.

[rdharma]

113. It only takes a "tiny fraction of people" with arms designed for combat to cause massive mayhem.

Is that statement "unscientific or unprogressive"?

[Captain Stern]

47. That's a lot of guns.....

....for somebody that supposedly only has $144 and is 2.5 million in debt.

[spin]

123. Zimmerman might have bought these weapons prior to the Trayvon Martin incident. (n/t)

[Captain Stern]

128. Yes, he might have. That means he's had plenty of time to sell them too. right? (nt)

[spin]

131. Zimmerman's life had been threatened. ...

New Black Panther Party seeks citizen's arrest of George Zimmerman
March 27, 2012|By Rene Lynch

Death threats and a $10,000 bounty offered for a citizen's arrest of George Zimmerman have raised concerns about the threat of "vigilante justice" in the racially charged case.

A group identifying itself as the New Black Panther Party is offering $10,000 to anyone who makes a citizen's arrest of George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin slaying.

***snip***

Tensions ratcheted up over the weekend when a group identifying itself as the New Black Panther Party "called for the mobilization of 10,000 black men to capture Zimmerman" and offered the bounty.

The Orlando Sentinel, which reported on the bounty, said leaders were making statements such as "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/27/nation/la-na-nn-black-panther-party-20120327

Now, because Zimmerman is a total idiot, he is not allowed to own firearms. Considering his recent behavior that's a damn good idea.

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. The Hero of Gunner Shitheads Everywhere

[loli phabay]

50. not getting why they say this is a large cache of weapons, seems some sort of disconnect

[spin]

124. My ex used to ask me why I needed more than two handguns ...

as I only have two hands.

I would ask her why she had more than one pair of shoes.

[loli phabay]

137. yup, i have different guns for different things ie hunting deer, hunting varmints,

Hunting fowl, plinking, home defence, as a carry. There is no one gun fits all that i know of.

[sir pball]

139. Shoot, I have an "arsenal" just for deer.

Different conditions, different tool. Lever-action big-bore for thick brush stalking, a gorgeous polished-wood and blue-steel number that I just like, but only take out in fair weather, a stainless-synthetic do-it-almost-all, and something accurate with lots of oomph for 250+ yards down in the fields of LA. And a REALLY big 'un, if I ever get the chance to try a half-miler in the Rockies. Plus the ammo (loaded and components) to be a competent marksman with them. I'll just say that Zimmy's two boxes ain't got nothing on me there.

Not gonna get more specific than that, I don't want to upset people too much - but yeah. I'm not put off by what he owns per se, I'm more riled up by his cute little "indigent" claim when he has easily $3000 of iron.

[Eleanors38]

51. The new GD "guns exception:" Umpteenth PR story on Zimmy.

[bobclark86]

73. You notice that too? n/t

[Eleanors38]

103. The Jon Benet Ramsey syndrome: Good MSM fallback when things get slow.

[Blue_Tires]

110. I get it; Zimmerman has always been Jesus on the Cross to the gunners

so you'd all just as soon wish this story would go away...

Unless of course he gets acquitted again in which case you all are the first ones posting links in GD...

[Eleanors38]

143. Your strange brew of religious metaphor and gun stereotypes...

Make me want to send out the cavalry to take Calvary.

[Blue_Tires]

76. Is Zimmerman a taboo subject or something?

[Eleanors38]

102. Nah, just boring. I got the idea he is hated 500 postings ago

[Blue_Tires]

107. You seem to be implying that the hate directed towards him is undeserved?

By all means, please continue...

[Eleanors38]

142. Your implication. So DU has devolved into a hating contest?

Where our progressive bona fides are measured by hating algorithms?

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. You can HIDE all the zimmerman threads

or simply not open them. Easy peasy you see.

[Eleanors38]

140. Cheers to the breasies that blows through the treesies...

Together with the porno, pit bull, and kitteh threads, 90% of GD would go "poof!"

We need diversity. How 'bout a Molly Cyprus (or whatever her name is) spate of postings, and see who is the most progressive, based on their stands on her artistic interpretation of performance art?

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. Go for it

I know I can hide them, or simply not open them.

If this subject bother you so much hide it.


Trust me, I am reading very little DU these days. My life is actually better for it. I am highly selective. I recommend the same

[Eleanors38]

144. Ha! This is when political ideology looks sexy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. That comment makes like zero sense

but do carry on

[Tommy_Carcetti]

146. Funny. Your buddies seem to like it.

Gives them an excuse to talk about what they think does and does not constitute a lot of ammunition.

[Eleanors38]

149. Now that you mention it, a hundred rounds IS diddly...

If you limited yourself to one (1) box of ammo per center-fire rifle, that's 20; a box per handgun is 50; a box of shotgun field loads of is 25. I have two hunting rifles so that's 40; one self-defense revolver for 50; three shotguns for 75. I can't buy less! Da agony!

Actually, I have 3X as much, but shot nearly a hundred rounds during dove season, so I'm low.

[Skeeter Barnes]

53. 106 rounds? He was almost out.

Three handguns, a couple of long guns and a couple boxes of ammo is a small collection. And the two AR mags are probably what came with the rifle. If this is all he has, he hasn't got much.

[rdharma]

55. That's just a "small" arsenal for a gun hugger. So, please ...........

?w=507

[Blue_Tires]

79. +1

It's amusing to see even after acquittal certain DUers still defending poor little misunderstood George Zimmerman to the death...I can't even be shocked or get mad at these people anymore...

[CatWoman]

93. *snarf*

but no

[rdharma]

97. Just kidddin'!

[CatWoman]

104. ....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

56. SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!!!!!!

[ileus]

61. 5 firearms and two mags...

Not impressed.

Bet the ar was a Wally turd DPMS.

[bobclark86]

69. Nah,

Wally-World Bushmaster. The choice of first responder, elementary school and theater shooters everywhere.

[rdharma]

74. But he DID HAVE a proper OWB holster...

Impressed now?

[ileus]

80. Leather or Kydex...

[rdharma]

81. Yes! nt

[LanternWaste]

83. Seeing that Americans are the most heavily armed nation on earth...

Seeing that Americans are (per capita and absolute numbers-- that peaceful Eden called Serbia coming in a distant second), the most heavily armed nation on earth, Zimmerman's "collection of what we're consistently told are simply tools" seems depressingly (and absurdly) typical.

Kafka would have a field day with this.... culture.

[Blue Owl]

91. GZ walks and chews gum at same time

n/t

[CatWoman]

95. and kills unarmed teenagers for shits and giggles

what a "manly" man.

[rdharma]

99. While wearing a GPS tracking bracelet!

[Gothmog]

101. Zimmerman is really a sick person

I hope that he is convicted this time around

[Rex]

105. THIS GUY LOVES THAT LIST!

Any ladies out there want to spawn with me?

[spin]

120. The only positive thing I can say about this photo ...

is that the guy at least has his finger off the trigger of the weapon he is holding.

On second thought I could add that if I were a home invader, I would hate to run into this guy after I broke into his home.

[rdharma]

129. Why would a home invader want to break into this guy's home?

To steal his pricey gun collection? Or those classic guitars?

[spin]

132. People who break into occupied homes in a nation with 300 million firearms in civilian hands ...

are not the brightest criminals around or they are looking to harm the people in the home.

[rdharma]

133. Would home invaders want this guy for a bikini wax proving ground?

[spin]

134. Ouch! (n/t)

[uppityperson]

108. I do not care how many guns someone has, provided they are responsible for and with them. Zimmy was

not.

[spin]

125. That's fair. (n/t)

[IDemo]

130. Almost all gun owners I know have that many or more

I am not a gun fan and favor strict controls. But that wouldn't make a particularly impressive collection for several people I know, even eliminating the gunsmith.