Porn Viewing: Do you know what you're talking about?

[RainDog]

Just curious because I read something here from someone about porn and then the person admitted she had no actual knowledge of porn.

So, that made me wonder... if you talk about the issue or porn on this site, do you actually know anything about porn or the porn industry from your own primary research - as in, you know people in the industry or you have spent time viewing porn from various producers/eras/genres.

Me? I'm not a big consumer of porn outside of the stuff created on the undersides of my eyelids.

But I know I'm not the person to decide what another person chooses to do, see, enjoy, experiment with, or whatever else within the boundaries of consent. I learn from hearing about the experiences of others that I will never have. Sometimes I will never have those experiences by choice, but other times I will not have those experiences because my gender or sexual orientation isn't the same. What I learn most of all is that people are very different from one another, and we won't all want the same thing or things, but we all want to have the freedom to be who we are.

So, if you pontificate about porn, how much do you actually know about it, and how much is secondary information you have garnered from other sources that then interpret what a third party experiences?

17 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I have worked in the industry or as an amateur
	2 (12%)
	I have a PhD in porn (whatever that means)
	11 (65%)
	What is the sound of one hand fapping?
	1 (6%)
	I have watched some porn
	3 (18%)
	I have never watched porn
	0 (0%)
	MYOB
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[RandySF]

1. I've noticed something here on DU

If everyone on this site is to be believed, either no one watches porn. Yet it sure generates a great deal of discussion.

[last1standing]

5. I've watched porn, just not the so-called "simulated rape" porn that's been discussed.

I've seen it but I'm turned off by violence.

[gollygee]

85. It is claiming to be real rape

on the packaging - the stuff that the UK is banning. If it's claiming to be real rape, why are you assuming it's simulated "rape" in quotation marks?

[last1standing]

86. In the legal sense, that is called "puffery."

The question isn't whether the marketers claim it is real rape, but whether it really is rape. If there is a concern that a specific video depicts real rape, then the producers need to be investigated and everyone involved needs to be prosecuted if their claims are found to be true.

[gollygee]

87. If they write that it is real rape

then that is an admission of guilt and is grounds for investigation.

[last1standing]

88. Again, not in the legal sense.

I'm not a fan of puffery but it is an accepted practice in business. If I were king, I would outlaw the practice, but thankfully, I'm not.

[gollygee]

90. People have to write "barely legal" with very young women

who are supposed to look underage. Why is it OK to pretend that your movie is actually showing rape but not OK to pretend that your movie is actually showing statutory rape with minors?

[last1standing]

92. They don't have to, they do it to keep the law off their backs.

The sad truth is that the legal system takes child pornography far more seriously than rape. Personally, I'm all for investigating companies claiming to show real rape. I'm only trying to point out the legal issues involved. Both are puffery but once the word "child" comes into the discussion, puffery as a practice becomes less acceptable.

[gollygee]

93. Well then I'll say it

It should not be acceptable to cater to people's sick desire to watch people get actually and truly raped.

I'm fine with BDSM and BDSM porn and whatever consenting people want to do. I am not OK with people who seek out and desire to see actual rapes. That is sick and no one has a right to that, regardless of their sexual desires.

[last1standing]

94. We don't disagree on that subject.

No one should have a right to watch real porn or to even watch porn they honestly believe is real. For me it's the same thing as prosecuting a person who thinks they are soliciting a minor for sex online when in reality it's a middle aged cop on the other side.

For some reason the law looks at it differently. I support changing that. On the other hand, I'll continue to voice support for the legality of simulated rape as depictions are, or at least should be, covered by the 1st amendment.

[RainDog]

10. It does, doesn't it?

I've seen some porn, but I prefer to think about someone I know, rather than watch strangers. It's much more stimulating to me.

I get the impression, however, that porn viewers and non-viewers are both represented here.

[last1standing]

2. I've studied the subject and have worked in the industry. Is that good enough?

n/t

[RainDog]

52. actually

I thought you had some good points to make about the recent discussions - which I had no part of - because of a tendency sometimes for people to conflate one thing with another.

Issues such as these are rarely ones that can be looked at dispassionately because people bring all sorts of life experiences and judgments from others into them - and because it's hard to accept that people can have experiences that we cannot understand.

So, I do appreciate the pov you can bring to the issue, just as I appreciate what others who have experience with bondage, etc. can share about their own experience of pleasure.

I think I'm too much of an underachiever to ever "get" bondage, etc. Plus, all the money you have to spend on accessories!

[last1standing]

69. I'm pretty vanilla, myself, especially when restraint or pain is involved.

The thing is, no one is really right when it comes to the issue. Many women (and men) are exploited by the porn industry but many are not. Some hate doing porn for a living while others find it to be their life's calling. Many times, when an actor is no longer viable onscreen they move behind the camera and continue in the industry. Other times they leave as soon as they've accomplished what they set out to do, and sometimes they get hooked on drugs or (rarely) contract HIV. It's not a wonderland filled with writhing bodies all looking for someone to join in. It's a hard, professional business that looks at profit margins at least as carefully as Goldman Sachs. There are ethical producers and unethical producers.

I guess what I'm saying is that sex work is like any other industry. If you allow the free market to take over but don't put reasonable regulations in place, it will eventually become a cesspool. That's why I suggest keeping porn legal but strongly regulating it.

[flvegan]

3. I'm a male porn star. Ask me anything!

Don't expect serious answers. That's how we porn stars roll.

[LeftyMom]

4. The things I see when I check in on DU.

Sigh.

[kwassa]

9. He was on the down low.

Not a lot of vegetarian porn stars. I don't know why.

[LeftyMom]

11. The closest he's come to porn stardom is grabbing my camera off the nightstand.

[flvegan]

13. If you want to return the pics, feel free.

I'll take them back.

[kwassa]

16. She uploaded them to one of those sites.

you know .... one of those sites.

[LeftyMom]

18. Nope, they're ALL MINE. *villain laugh*

[RainDog]

19. So... look for "Veggie Tails?"

[flvegan]

21. Shhhh...

It's code. Because I can wag it.

[kwassa]

25. actually, "Veggie Pit-Bull Tails"

It is hard to find good veggie pit-bull porn.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Not if you know where to look.

[flvegan]

20. Hmmm...I should have some royalty checks coming then.

[LeftyMom]

23. They probably passed my birthday present in the mail.

[kentauros]

47. I didn't know royalty checks could do that!

Is it--Tantric?

[RandySF]

6. Oh I've got something for you.

Years ago on some talk show, a female ex-porn star said men last longer in the business because "they are the studs" (she had a nasty look on her face). I thought to myself that it's because no one pays attention to the guys and audiences eventually tire of the star attraction.

[flvegan]

15. We are the studs and we do

last longer "in the business"

*nudge, nudge, wink wink*

[Dr. Strange]

111. You've got a typo.

Everyone knows you're a mail porn star, Cliff Clavin.

[kentauros]

7. The only porn I've ever liked is in comic book form.

Does that count as "viewing"?

[RainDog]

31. I would assume

I remember, long ago, reading Alan Moore's From Hell and thinking.. whoa. This is a lot different than Richie Rich comics... lol.

[kentauros]

32. Did you ever get to read Omaha The Cat Dancer?

A great adult comic that actually won awards for the writing. I used to have a t-shirt with Omaha on it in a belly dance outfit. I wore out that shirt

[RainDog]

35. I'll have to check it out

I think, for me, "porn" sorts of things work better with some abstraction, rather than straight to video.

...or I'm more interested in something with a story that interests me, which seems to be more of a definition of erotica.

[kentauros]

37. I don't think it's in print any more, but look up Reed Waller.

He created it with his wife Kate Worley (she passed away some years ago from cancer.)

Or, pop into a comics shop and ask someone about the adult comics. There are plenty that are as "consumable" as your average porn video, and some that have good stories. I haven't read them in years, so I can't point to the current comics worth reading.

There's a satire book to 50 Shades of Gray called "Fifty Shades of Alice In Wonderland" and it's pretty good. I've only read part of it, but liked what I read. I don't know if it's in print format, though; mine's an ebook.

[RainDog]

45. I skimmed 50 Shades soon after it was published

mostly just scanning till it got to the porny parts.

The story was entirely annoying to me because it had such stereotypical male and female characters. I was surprised that so many women liked it, but it made me think about writing porn, as in... I can do better than this...

but so far I haven't.

But 50 shades should be called Jane Austen does Seattle. bow chicka bow bow.

[kentauros]

46. Writing porn is difficult.

I don't know the terminology that turns people on, so I haven't attempted it. It also usually seems to be a level of writing less than what I can do now. I don't really want to go in that direction with my own writing style.

However, the satire book is good and worth looking for it. I got mine for free when it was available that way (through J. Konrath's page when he interviewed Melinda DuChamp.)

Oh, you might like this, too: Wakka Chikka Wakka Chikka

[RainDog]

49. Yeah. I think it has its own challenges

I'm not as disciplined about writing as I used to be when that was my primary occupation.

I did write something once on spec for a straight to vid b/c a friend was doing those things as money makers between film gigs (on the production end of not porn movies.) It never got made, even tho I had already picked out my porn film writing name. lol. Film is pretty formulaic for those things. I didn't have a lot of experience viewing porn, so I just decided to write something that was fun for me to visualize, and read scripts that my friend had had produced.

In those, the set ups and twists were the most important part, as well as a sex scene every seven minutes/pages or so - tho ten pp was the "rule."

The best "porn" I've ever seen was adapted from the novel Fanny Hill. (Fanny, in Brit slang, is the pudendum, not the arse.) Anyway, it's a "coming of age" story, so to speak.

[kentauros]

50. Sounds like you had fun anyway :)

Now you have the experience to write a parody fantasy porn novel

[Blue_Adept]

108. Great series

Always hated that things worked out so badly for the creators in their struggle to get their work out.

[kentauros]

110. I think they then refelected that in the story,

such as with the local government trying to shut down all the clubs and such. I know that's kind of a common theme anyway, and I don't know for sure if they were transcribing it to the story, just that it does parallel things.

Somewhere in my (closet-buried) collection, I have a collected works of Reed Waller. It may be signed, but I was just happy to get to talk to him on the phone once for a radio interview (I did that kind of thing back then.) Real nice guy, and so talented

[Kaleva]

8. How does one define "some porn"?

[RainDog]

12. in opposition to "no porn"

is how I saw it. I've seen some porn, so I would fall into that category.

[Kaleva]

14. Okay. Sounds good to me and I voted accordingly. Thanks!

[Skittles]

51. oops

I misunderstood

[Kaleva]

59. Your unedited post was much more interesting!

[Skittles]

60. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything!!

OK well maybe I was

[Ms. Toad]

17. Of the quantitative options, PhD in porn fits best.

I spent a lot of time over a period of a decade studying the porn industry, including lots of scholarly reading, talking with some women involved in porn and prostitution (there is some overlap), talking with people who work with women in porn and prostitution, and "reading" lots of print porn (the infamous meat grinder Hustler issue, among others - and if you didn't see it, you don't want to). One outgrowth of that work included participation in the local chapter of Women against Violence against Women, putting together an educational slide show/presentation making apparent the bleedover (in terms of style, postures, messaging, etc.) into mainstream advertising - as well as documenting how much of the porn and prostitution industry then (and I really doubt it has changed) is not really voluntary on the part of the women involved.

So - although I haven't joined the recent discussions - Rape porn is real, and it is not (as someone suggested in another thread) an insubstantial portion, of the porn industry. I know from first and second hand conversations with women involved that it is not uncommon for the creation of rape porn to involve at least coercion and often rape. Not to mention that I think it is a bad thing to portray rape as something which women secretly want.

[RainDog]

27. Thanks for your reply!

My experience with the issue of porn was via second-wave feminists who opposed the Dworkin/MacKinnon legislation because of two principles - the first was 1st amendment issues and the second was "unintended consequences" of the attempt to eliminate "vice" - which is not limited to porn or prostitution, but also concerns drugs, alcohol, and other substances/behaviors.

My pov, b/c of my educational and interpersonal experiences, is that economic empowerment is, b/c of the way our society is set up, the best defense against all sorts of "vice" issues.

This doesn't solve all problems, of course. Nothing does. But a basic minimum income seems to me to be the best defense against abuses of power and people.

I have a friend who dated a woman in the porn industry for a while and they're still friends. She has some interesting insights. The reason she got into the business was because of financial opportunity there that wasn't available to her elsewhere. She was in the industry willingly, and now she's out of it.

[Ms. Toad]

34. Agreed.

And not all women who are in the industry are in it by coercion or force, but enough are - that coupled with the glorification/sexualization of violence against women - I believe it is far more destructive than any good it does.

But - my opposition takes the form of education, rather than legislation. And, yes, better economic alternatives for women would go a long way to minimizing the number of women who feel their only good economic options come from participating in the sex trade industry.

[RainDog]

48. Yes. Education and information

helps people to make informed decisions.

The problem is always when people use educational opportunities for their own agendas - like the creepy abstinence-only people who lie to students about sex and engage in shaming as a propaganda tool. Or the many lies told as part of the drug war to pass legislation that creates the opposite effect of its supposed intent.

Do you ever have to deal with people with those sorts of agendas? I would think that would be difficult to do. No doubt one reason I come down on a more "free speech" side of this issue has to do with my distrust of and dislike of religious right thought and action. I don't want to be associated with things associated with them - they've been on the wrong side of every social issue I can think of, so I'm immediately more suspect of any position if they take it... that's just what my experience taught me.

Martin Luther King said something that made a big impression on me, in one of this last speeches. He said we try to deal with issues that are the result of poverty, rather than the issue of poverty itself.

We are as moralistic about poverty as we are about vice issues - but they so often go hand-in-hand because people who are shut out of access to well paying jobs will look for other ways to survive - and to make enough money to get beyond mere survival.

I didn't know until recently, however, that both liberals and conservatives have put forth the idea of a basic minimum income (and the idea was floated before this nation was even founded, too.) Milton Friedman - who also looked at marijuana prohibition when Nixon was changing the law and opposed Nixon's decision to create the escalation of the war on drugs - also thought a basic minimum income could be more cost effective and more helpful than programs targeted for one problem or another.

And now there's a international movement for a basic minimum income from the left, because it would provide some bargaining power for working people. And before that, Martin Luther King was moving toward the issue of poverty as a class issue, not just a race one. That was the way he was going to bring great change to this nation, as his leadership had done with civil rights (and, of course, he wasn't the first - Vernon John was his mentor, and Gandhi before...)

The sad thing is the knowledge that such work would generate violence toward women and men, as it has anytime people tried to improve the lives of those in poverty.

[petronius]

22. I've seen so many threads recently about this "porn" thingummy that I'm

a little curious - guess I'll finally google the word and figure out what the heck it is that y'all are talking about so intently.

Be right back...

[dimbear]

53. No use checking the internet, you won't find any there.

Hee hee.

[Heather MC]

24. I am constantly and proudly proclaiming my love of porn on DU, No Shame

I love
tranny porn and Granny porn
Gang bang Porn and Solo Porn
Asian Girls, bald or curled
Black on white
White on white
Black on white on black on black on.....

I LOVE PORN!

even weird medical porn where the guy is in some weird contraption getting a very non medical examine. at least not a state board regulated one.

Adults only, no kids gross, no animals, neither one can give legal consent. so NO NO

i don't watch all the time, but when I want to I do

[rrneck]

26. I went with option number three. I can't resist a good pun. nt

[RainDog]

29. you're just philosophical n/t

[libodem]

84. okay

Now, I get option 3. For such a smart girl I can be so dense. Duuuuherp.

[Atman]

28. I like watching porn at Olive Garden

...with my pit bull.

[kentauros]

39. Is your pitbull circumcised, though?

[Recursion]

30. I don't talk much about porn here, but I used to host some porn sites

Mostly for one client, a very nice transwoman who did very tasteful stuff (not my thing, but the layout and photography were pretty nice). I do know, from that, a lot of the technical issues with porn (it can be very hard to get bandwidth from non-porn bandwidth providers, etc.) and some of the business issues (very few porn providers avoid going out of business relatively quickly).

I'm not a big fan of it in my personal life (it seems to "dull the appetite", if you will, so I usually avoid it).

[RainDog]

33. interesting

because the assumption is that porn is a money-generator, since the internet seems to be the easiest way to distribute the same.

most small businesses struggle, of course, but not necessarily for the same reasons - other than the universal issue of cash flow.

I know some couples enjoy watching porn together. I think I'm more of a watch erotica together kind of person, because porn, for the most part, doesn't have the intended effect on me. But I've never felt that a person I'm with couldn't watch whatever he wanted - the funny thing was when I had a boyfriend who would remark, "I don't want to watch porn anymore!" as if it was some accomplishment, from time to time. I didn't think it was my business if he did or didn't, because I don't think porn has much of anything to do with real life.

but I'm not a guy, so I don't know about porn from that pov.

[Recursion]

36. Piracy is an even bigger problem for them than for music studios

Some of the larger porn producers have quietly supported anti-piracy laws, but they have to be careful because nobody wants to announce "and I just got $2 million from a sleazy porn mogul!"

And the piracy issue also confuses the wider structural issue: just like bands can release professional-sounding albums using only a macbook and the Internet (meaning nobody really needs record labels anymore), pro-am porn producers can shoot videos in their bedrooms and upload them to one of the various "tubes" (named IIRC after YouTube, not the idiot Senator's comments) and build their popularity that way -- and just like musicians give away MP3s to get people to come to concerts, where they make money, a lot of the pro-am stars use the videos as a way to advertise their "escort" services. And just like with music, a lot of people aren't in it for the money at all and just enjoy it.

And unfortunately, the only reliable way web porn companies have found to make money directly is by spreading malware to viewers' computers -- another reason to avoid porn...

[RainDog]

40. pardon my ignorance

but people make money from malware?

I thought it was just malicious hackers messing with people. I honestly didn't know it was a money-generating business.

I can understand the use of porn as a loss leader to bring in customers for other services, but I thought it was a primary income generator for people who produce/distribute it.

[Recursion]

43. The hackers will pay one tenth of a cent per infected computer (or however much)

A hacker writes an exploit and gives it to the web company, and every time they infect a visiting computer with it, the hacker pays them. The hackers then use the infected computers to do things like spam, denial-of-service, etc.

[mwrguy]

38. I have an open account at Mr S, and was a BDSM model twice

So yeah, I've seen porn a time or two.

[RainDog]

41. What's Mr. S?

The only thing I know that's close is "Mr. F" from Arrested Development. lol.

[mwrguy]

44. Store in SF that sells leather and BDSM toys

And of course they also sell on the web.

Not sure if a link is kosher, but it pops right up in google.

[Gravitycollapse]

42. I've seen a good amount of porn both personally and educationally.

[Tikki]

54. IMHO sex should be interested in love or at least lust otherwise it's like watching jello….

…wrestling.


Tikki

[RainDog]

55. Is any porn not interested in lust?

I thought that was a pre-requisite for the genre.

[Tikki]

56. The viewers might be lusting…the actors, I doubt it...

I guess that is the attraction…the viewer lusts after…


Tikki

[RainDog]

57. well, it's acting, right?

just like other actors can simulate love with another actor, even tho they don't love one another apart from the story they are involved in telling.

...but maintaining the facade that the love was real, or even possible, was one reason so many actors kept their sexual identities a secret... to maintain the illusion. Tho the social prohibition was surely the strongest motivation - but in the past, public people's private lives were managed much differently than now... now, creating gossip about private life seems like part of the celebrity package.

I find it's much easier to imagine sex as an end unto itself via others' stories than I do in my own life - but that's the place where I am in life, too, and people go through stages and phases.

[Tikki]

58. I am sorry…I have never seen porn where someone was in love…maybe it has changed, I watched a...

bit in the 1980's…

Debbie didn't seem to love Dallas but that city kept her busy.

Tikki

[RainDog]

61. I was talking about another genre: romance

Romance, like porn, simulates an experience between two actors that doesn't actually exist. People suspend their belief and accept those actors' emotional expressions as real, not fake. but it's fake, too.

They are the same, tho, in that actors are pretending they feel something that they, most likely, do not.

[Tikki]

62. I like a good romance..I'll sit in a crowded theatre and cry, cheer or sigh.

I always want love to be grand.

I guess one could cheer for a grand ending in a porn film..maybe a big smile and all.

Tikki

[RainDog]

63. I'm not a big fan of romance or rom-coms

but sometimes one can get to me. mostly I find rom-coms as unbelievable and superficial as porn.

I'm trying to think of a romance that I've seen recently... that was made recently... I do watch Scandal, tho it's a total soap opera and entirely unbelievable and if it was real life, I would detest the characters - but I enjoy the show just because it's so over-the-top. Doesn't rise to the greatness that was Breaking Bad, but, for me, that's a hard show to top.

And I loved that show, even tho I would never want anyone to use meth, or make it. yet the acting made the characters compelling. And the story of a guy who was in this muddled life who said, "fuck it" when he had played by the rules all his life and got nothing but grief was a story I could cheer for, because I could empathize, even if I couldn't imagine doing the same thing.

maybe the quality of writing/acting makes a difference - or the care for production values, etc. that makes so much porn seem sort of silly to me, like I was watching amateur night at the community center (that would be one strange community center, but, hey..)

What are your favorite romances? I tend to favor stories about crime. I think I like the "puzzle" of trying to figure out what's going to happen - and I'm always happy when I haven't figured out the story as long as possible.

[Tikki]

64. Always someone overcoming a trial in their life and finding someone who champions that victory.

So it isn't always about intimate interaction. I really liked The Intouchables. But, also, liked
Melancholia..sometimes people do win in the last moments of their life.

I agree about excellent acting, well written script and production..makes a show worth watching.

OK, My secret corny romance movie is White Palace..I mean a young James Spader..lord help me.

Tikki

[RainDog]

78. thanks for the recommendations

I haven't kept up with film like I used to, since I'm no longer involved in that world. Both Melancholia and The Intouchables look like movies I'd like. I loved von Triers' Breaking the Waves, oh so long ago. Made me cry. Tho it was very controversial in its day.

I never saw White Palace, so I'll have to check it out. I remember when it was released, tho.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. "50 Shades of Grey" as read by... Ben Stein.

I don't know why that popped into my head. And yes, I know Ben Stein is a right wing creationist asshat.

[Vashta Nerada]

65. I view porn regularly.

All of it legal, of course.

And if anyone has a problem with that, well, too bad.

[grahamhgreen]

66. What is p0rn?

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Depends on how broadly you define "in the industry"

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. I once took a job interview for one of America's largest online porn video sites

I would have been the customer sales rep. Taking calls from dudes who ordered "Big Azz Boobs 4" and "Big Azz Boobs 5" but only got "5" in their order and were totally lost as to what was going on and such....

I'll be honest, I didn't take it very seriously. I didn't wear a suit and tie and I was probably slightly tipsy too. Too bad, because they were nice, professional people. The receptionist even asked "Um, you know what we do here, right?"

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Everyone knows that #4 is the pinnacle of the series.

#5 was just a pale imitation.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

73. I compare it to the Bourne Series, actually....

Check out after the first one, the rest is just a lot of pointless wanking.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. You mean you didn't like The Boring Ultimatum?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

75. Nope, and yet for some reason I watched The Boring Legacy

Although I can't kill the movies too much, a good friend of mine worked on all of them.

My parents stumbled across Supremacy a couple weeks ago on Encore and the next day called me to explain what was going on. They were blown away when I told them there were four of these fucking movies and they saw the second.

Thankfully they didn't stumble across "Big Azz Boobs 2". That would have been a whole other discussion.

[RainDog]

80. yeah

if the definition is that broad, I was in the industry, too, when I sold magazines whose covers were under brown wrappers. I've kept all kinds of secrets about people over the years from that time.

[Kurska]

76. I have some friends on the fringes of the gay porn industry

Including two guys I dated.

So I guess you could say I was

in the industry

Teehee

[Prophet 451]

77. I write porn

I write and sell porn short stories (3-5000 words mostly) through most of the ebook retailers. I have also known a couple of people in the industry, read a lot of academic studies about it and consumed some recreationally. I have a long-standing fascination with the intersection of psychology and sexuality that the media persists in calling "sexology" and I'm about a year (of six) away from my Psychology degree.

[RainDog]

82. so, what are sales like in the ebook end of things?

I have, honestly, thought about doing this, but, like most things, I think it's easier than it looks sometimes.

[Prophet 451]

123. Depends on the genre

Ebook porn is a business of what's hot at the moment. When "Fifty Shades" came out, there was a sudden boom in both billionaire playboys and light BDSM. Vampires and werewolves sell briskly. My fantasy sex (i.e. orcs, goblins, etc) stories are fairly consistent sellers. Weirdly, most of my gay porn (I'm bisexual) sells on sites where most of the buyers are female. The only thing that doesn't sell at all is straight sex in the missionary position. Just like regular porn, people are looking to buy into a fantasy where cocks are always hard, pussies are always moist, everyone is great-looking and they all have movie-star sex in adventurous positions.

It's relatively easy to do. You just write teh story (3-5k words, of which at least 2/3 should be actual sex), format it according to the style guide (varies by publisher) and submit it to Amazon (via KDP) and Smashwords (who syndicate to all teh big ebook retailers). Stories of that length generally sell for $2.99, of which you get $2-2.25 depending on teh retailer).

I make maybe a couple hundred bucks a month doing this but there are plenty of people who do it as a full-tiem job.

[gollygee]

79. The "within the boundaries of consent" is the issue

The rape porn discussion is about RAPE porn. Not BDSM porn. Not any old porn. Just porn that claims to be actual documentation of actual rapes.

[RainDog]

81. I didn't follow that discussion

so I can't comment on it, tho I think actual rape and dramatized rape would be two different things. So much depends upon the way a subject is presented - whether voyeurism in and of itself, or as part of a larger story, at least from my limited knowledge of the subject.

[Scout]

83. the "some porn" that i have watched

caused varied reactions on my part: mostly LAUGHTER at the ridiculousness, or boredom at the tedium, occasional mild arousal, infrequent disgust. i just find most of it, well, stupid. plus the acting sucks

i've seen some of the old classics, and some newer, nothing current. just not much interested in watching other people do it.

[RainDog]

101. that's about where I'm at

I probably haven't seen all the classics, but I did like Emmanuelle.

I think a lot of porn is made with a male pov in mind. I hear James Deen has a big following among younger women - he intentionally appeals to females.

A friend of mine told me that younger women are far more open to porn than women "of a certain age" - and he dates a lot of different women, so he probably has some insight - at least among his friends in L.A.

but, yeah, I'd much rather do it than watch it and watching it doesn't usually arouse me - directly. I'm just as put off as aroused, and that's not even talking about anything that would be considered hard core. I'm put off because I'm more interested in at least the pretense of an affair of the heart, I suppose.

when I was married, my ex and I watched Netherlands tv when we lived nearby. At night they had a couple that demonstrated all the positions of the kama sutra, like a PBS show or something. I think the women in porn make me think I'm not as attractive b/c I don't have fake breasts and I don't work out enough. lol.

[Vattel]

89. My porn name is Smoky Ivanhoe. Nuff said.

[HappyMe]

95. Nice to meet you Smoky.

I'm Shadow Aberdeen.

[Vattel]

97. NTMU. Was Shadow a dog or a cat?

[HappyMe]

98. A dog.

I'm not a cat person.

[Vattel]

99. Smoky was a grey cat.

[RainDog]

96. whooooooosh

that's the sound of your reference going right over my head.

[Vattel]

100. Come on Raindog.

Don't you know that to form your porn name, you take your first pet's name and add the name of the first street you lived on. My first pet was named Smoky and I lived on Ivanhoe Street.

[Vattel]

104. ROFL. Thistlewood sounds like it hurts. But, hey, S & M is a color of the rainbow too.

[RainDog]

105. I know. too bad I didn't live on Luscious street... lol n/t

[B Calm]

91. Porn, you are talking about war movies?

[RainDog]

103. nah

but I get what you're saying about violence as a sort of porn.

I have more problems watching violence than I do phucking. Depending on how it's done, of course, but the last ep of Scandal, for instance, had me closing my eyes because of something a woman did to herself. it was just too grotesque for me.

I also cannot watch the Stuck in the Middle part of Rez Dogs.

I also don't like to watch most action movies cause I find them as boring as some porn.

[HappyinLA]

106. I currently work in the industry

and my job basically involves watching porn all day. All the guys I know think I have the best job in the world, basically getting paid to do what they try not to get caught doing at work. For the most part it's boring as hell. Although once in awhile I have to take a screenshot to share because I can't believe what I just saw.

[RainDog]

109. welcome to du

that's the problem with any job where you really have to learn about the subject, isn't it? it all gets de-mystified because you have to bring analytic skills to something. that's what happened to me with various performing arts - after a while it was harder to just enjoy the performances because you become aware of all the tricks behind creating the illusion.

so, I have some things I'm interested in but I consciously make an effort not to know too much of the technical side so that I can maintain my enjoyment of the performance.

maybe that's part of my attitude toward porn, too. who knows.

[Bennyboy]

107. Porn has been part of my life since I was 13 or so....

Been with porn people, strippers and have used porn as an enhancement to single, group and married sex.

I do not like anal porn much. Some things I would not do or even condone of in real life, I like to see in porn. Not rapes. Mutual stuff.

I grew up with pron, from Playboy to today's 24 hour sex o ramas. I've seen porn stars live,and spent many a hour at Mitchell Brothers in SF.

That said, I kind of wish I never did that. Porn has been a big problem in my sexlife (I know sounds weird but true) and everyone I know that has a long term marriage, porn is NOT in their lives. Nothing stronger than Playboy.

[RainDog]

112. interesting

my ex grew up as a catholic boy, so he had some... not weird but, to me, sort of strange attitudes about some things. the guilt was part of the pleasure some times, I think, and I wasn't interested in being anyone's judge. but porn, other than watching the Kama Sutra performed by two people, or Kaufman sorts of movies were about the extent of our interactions related to porn. I don't know if he consumed porn apart from our relationship - again - not something I care to know about if someone doesn't say. but he was entirely conventional, as far as it all goes - and so am I, really. boring, to some, I'm sure.

I had much more open experiences both before and after marriage, iow, that, to me, were healthier.

how do you think porn has been a problem in your sex life?

I have a funny strange story about someone who did something and I was like... wtf is this?!?! to myself - and then realized it was something he had seen on a porn video, most likely. So I said "why are you doing that?" and he stopped. I didn't know it was sort of a convention of porn until I read someone talking about a similar experience. The funny takeaway was... the response to your amorous actions shouldn't be bafflement... which is exactly how I responded. LOL.

The interesting thing was that he was obviously a consumer of porn, but had little actual experience with... I don't know how to put it... openness that's more vulnerable between partners. With real women? It's not like I'm the most experienced person in the world, but I thought... you know, I could really teach him how to make love if he wanted to learn. but he was like one of those people who never had to work that hard at something because he was...naturally gifted, anatomically. But, if I had had the chance, I would've said... you know, that's not going to last and you need to learn some technique. My experience has been that those who are anatomically gifted are often less technically skilled. Avis vs. Hertz, that sort of thing.

Mostly porn just sort of mystifies me because, as I said, it doesn't necessarily elicit the response I think it's supposed to. I hate to be that stereotypical girlie girl woman, but apparently I am.

[OneGrassRoot]

115. I adore this thread.

I love your funny strange story. Avis vs. Hertz....

But very true in my experience as well.

Love this whole thread. Thank you.

[RainDog]

116. love to you

we need to talk about that thing we talked about long ago. a guy who was helping me out went mia, my camera broke...

btw, NOTHING TO DO WITH PORN, FOLKS... lol.

glad to read a confirmation of my experience. I really had a thing for Hertz. Too bad it just wasn't meant to be.

Now... no avis, no hertz and no car sharing for the commuter lane... nothing. but hope springs eternal... lol.

[Bennyboy]

120. well,

How do you think porn has been a problem in your sex life?

When married or in a long term relationship is when it has been a problem....

Old habits are hard to break.

Married sex is not porn sex even if it starts out as porn sex. Eventually the thrill is gone. And truly, in my lifetime, I have only had one or two "sexual soul mates" but never married either one. Both were during my harder drug phase of my life, and both were incredible sexual dynamos....(not surprisingly, both were crazy as shit).

As I got older things that were problematic at times in the past then became real problems....Add in some health problems and sex became a difficult endeavor which usually ended in disappointment and crushing depression. For me. I tried the pills and that was not a great thing and then I started taking Zoloft and lost all of my desire completely, even to please myself...(Fuck that shit)

I used porn to satisfy my needs and not my wife, because I did not need to perform to get myself off. I still had sexual desire but did not want to go through all of the negatives that came with couple sex.

[PassingFair]

121. Thank you for such an honest post!

I think that porn has a negative influence on pair bonding.

[retread]

113. Sure! However, "What turns me on is erotic; what turns you on is pornographic." Ellen Willis n/t

[RainDog]

119. It was my understanding she coined the phrase

"sex positive" in relation to feminism - though others, I've seen, have attributed this to someone else.

Willis was right in the middle of that whole era. I was just a student, but I had some great professors who were involved in the porn legislation era.

[PassingFair]

114. I avoid it if I see it. I have no voyeuristic tendencies.

I'm happy with my partner and am not interested in what other people are doing sexually.

[RainDog]

117. my one concern is boredom

I was married for a while and, while we got along in that way the whole time, sometimes I would be bored because I was familiar with him, his ways, etc. and sometimes fantasizing about some other situation would get me in the mood. not that I intended to act on it - I'm boringly monogamous, and as far as I know, so was he.

but that is a reality - of course love changes from first romance to a deeper commitment to one another and the family you create. that was the worst part about getting a divorce - the loss of my family.

I am interested in what other people are doing, sexually, because I'm interested in having fun in bed and, even before I ever had sex I read about it and looked at books that showed technique because I wanted to be able to make someone else go crazy with happiness.

others find happiness within relationships that are not monogamous - and, if they're okay with it, more power to them. sometimes I think Dan Savage's rule of "not in our hometown" would be a useful arrangement for couples.

...which brings up another interesting issue. Savage claims that most male/male relationships involve stepping out. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's interesting to see how long term relationships work for people with other orientations than my own, too.

[PassingFair]

118. Not a concern for me....so far.

But then I've only been married for 24 years.