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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPit bull bites off N.Y. 5-year-old's genitals
A 5-year-old who wandered into his aunt's bedroom likely faces continuing surgery after her pit bull attacked him, biting off his penis.
The boy, who was visiting his grandmother's apartment for the weekend, had tried to climb into bed with his sleeping 13-year-old aunt and her pet. That's when the protective 6-year-old female named Momma turned on the boy, severing his genitals.
(snip)
Pettiford, who said she works as a teacher, disputes the police account, saying she never told the boy to stay away from the dog because the pit bull lives with Jackson and never has exhibited signs it was dangerous in the six years her daughter has had it.
Pettiford, who has owned a pit bull in the past and has an 11-year-old son, said the younger boy's movements likely made the dog feel threatened. The dog had come to visit on other occasions and she said the family felt comfortable and safe around it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/25/dog-bite-mutilation/3698559/
840high
(17,196 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 26, 2013, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)
Family pit kills 2 year old while mom takes bathroom break: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/25/pit-bull-kills-toddler/2113713/
Pack of pits take out 63 year old woman on her walk, rip off arm and scalp: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/10/jogger-killed-dogs/2149843/
Seven pits maul child to death while mom studies for GED: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/17/mom-studying-toddler-mauled/2090905/
Orrex
(63,203 posts)Because obviously they're wonderful dogs and couldn't possibly maul anyone to death or tear off their limbs or rip off their faces, and if you suggest otherwise then you're an ignorant, racist, classict, crazy, lying, genocidal, murderous dog hater.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)"If Momma Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy."
Orrex
(63,203 posts)It's just an innocent animal, done wrong by the cruel and irresponsible owner. Pit bulls are angellic family members and would never hurt anyone unless threatened or hungry or frightened or neglected or abused or over-crowded or locked-up or not-secured or approached or looked-at-wrong, and even then the owner is totally to blame and not the dog no sir not the dog.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)In a moment of confusion I thought the maimed child was the victim, forgetting of course about how the dog must feel when it's well deserved sainthood is questioned.
And just in case it can't accept my apology, I will be wearing a steel jock strap.
JVS
(61,935 posts)God forbid they let the dog live long enough so that we can determine whether to attack happened because the dog was deranged or whether the attack was provoked.
Dead dogs tell no tales and wag no tails.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)in Russia, dog neuters YOU!
JVS
(61,935 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I never let young children near mine and I certainly wouldn't have one uncrated at night with a child in the house.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)An afghan hound nearly chewed off my best friend's face when I was seven. A doberman split my nose, requiring reconstructive surgery, and then another one very nearly broke my sister's arm. I saw a husky grab a five year old and run him back and forth through the house when the kid came near the animal's food bowl, ending up with a dislocated arm and broken hip. And a neighbor lost two fingers and most of the use of her hand after her yorkie went on the fritz.
In addition I've seen no shortage of snaps, bites, tackles, and other minor injuries from other dogs; Boston terriers, dalmatians, cocker spaniels, more mutts than I can count, four different chow-chows, a saint bernard, and one idiot's coydog.
I manage to not blame the dogs, because they're animals. And I've noticed most other people manage this basic understanding of the difference between humans and animals, except if the dog has a square head. Then suddenly it's full of malicious agency, a villain with four legs.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Especially if you're like me and have the luck of the Irish (which is to say, absolutely no fucking luck whatsoever)
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)In fact of the hundreds of dogs I interact with annually most are strangers and I've never been bit once in 30 years.
Oh and I am an Irish citizen.
Furthermore as a professional trainer (horses but much if this is applicable to dogs) I'd be a fool to ignore breed instincts and propensities. Its about working WITH those instincts to produce maximal results. It would be cruel to try to train some breeds to participate in what we do - they simply are not designed for that work mentally or physically.
Lastly some breeds are not appropriate for every situation/owner. Its foolish to place an OCD oriented energetic border collie with an elderly senior and its not a slam on border collies to acknowledge that's a bad.match.
Some pit bull lines have been bred for aggression. Its a fact. Same thing with schutzhund dobermans etc. Overlooking a breeds history and natural instincts can certainly lead to tragedy.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But dogs are not robots, programmed exclusively to follow their breed history unerringly. Which is what seems like a lot of people are missing in these threads. If dogs are robots unable to deviate from breed history, then we ought to be worrying about several breeds well ahead of pit bulls - bloodhounds and mastiffs come to mind, as both were developed to attack and mangle humans.
All the breed history does, is skew averages in comparison between breeds. On average, an Australian shepherd is more intelligent and more energetic than a pug. On average a terrier is going to be more animal-aggressive than a beagle, and on average sheepdogs and spitz-types are going to be more dog-aggressive than scent hounds or spaniels. There is a broad spectrum of individual variation especially when you're looking at dogs that aren't "breed-certified" (which is the case with pretty much every pit bull you'll ever meet.)
It's the humans in the picture that are the most important factor in a dog's behavior. Let a dog run wild, you get a wild dog. Let a child blunder around a dog unsupervised, something bad could very well happen. Negligent owners and clueless people in general are the biggest factor in dog attacks from any breed (or non-breed, as the case is.)
I agree fully that dogs are not one-size-fits-all for all owners. A demure elderly lady with a fondness for malamutes is a tragedy waiting to happen (and one that has happened in the past, sadly.) But again this comes back to the dog and what it does being hte owner's responsibility. it is up to the human in the equation to know what they're doing, control the situations, and train their animal. The blame does not - cannot - go to the animal, because it's an animal. Extending blame from that animal to every animal with a physical resemblance to it is even more ludicrous.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Except I think whst happens on these threads is the entrenched sides just don't hear each other. So they miss the qualifiers etc
( I'm not a usual participant on these)
So your response seems to indicate that you believe the dogs are never to blame in these sorts.of attacks? Ever?
While I'm sure there are some bad owner/pit bull matches out there that account for some of this mayhem my experience indicates that those "tendencies" and instincts are overlooked at our peril. That doesn't mean the breed is a disaster but it does mean in my experience that the dog's instincts share some responsibility in these tragedies. Its a fact that some pit bull lines are naturally more aggressive. Like some doberman lines or mastiffs etc. That doesn't mean I'm extending blame to every animal. Not at all. The fact remains though that every time this happens the pit bull in question was as "gentle as a lamb" til they weren't.
I think that's the instinct part that kicked in and is hard to overcome.
Clydesdales aren't mentally, physically, or instinctually designed to gallop long distances and jump high obstacles. Thoroughbreds are. Each a breed of horses, certainly not robots, but the human factor can't overcome their breeding and instincts. Clydesdales are placid and simply have had generations of breeding that has extinquished that fire in the belly. TBs are bred to be hot.
Are there outliers? Sure.
Anyway its been a pleasure having a calm thoughtful conversation.
Thanks!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I do not believe that any animal can bear "blame." Blame is something that can only be applied to a human being capable of reason. Blaming an animal for something is a lot like shouting at a cloud for blocking the sun.
Yes, there is instinct. But instinct isn't autopilot. A dog's instinct is to take a crap wherever it happens to be when it feels the need. It can be trained otherwise, and most dogs that spend any amount of time indoors are so trained. A dog's instinct is to chase something that runs... unless it is trained otherwise, then it behaves just fine. A dog's instinct is to bark and howl (well, most breeds, archaic and spitz dogs are notable exceptions) in order to communicate with each other and try to communicate with humans - unless they are trained otherwise.
Training overcomes instinct. Your comparison to horses isn't exactly spot-on, because a lot of what you're talking about is simple physical ability; draft horses are just too big to do the stuff a thoroughbred does. Similarly, no one's saying you can train a pug to herd cattle, it just lacks any physical capability for the job. But, you could probably train a pug to herd guinea pigs or something (and yes, that is the cutest image you will have in your head today ), and you could train a draft horse to race (though it wouldn't win, except in an all-draft race perhaps.)
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)close to what you did, except an arthritic collie that snapped at me when I hugged her to hard as a kid.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I remember when Dianne Whipple was killed in San Francisco, and the dogs' owners were all indignant about how she "provoked" their sweet pooches into chewing her face off by being in the hallway outside her own apartment.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)No remorse whatsoever, nor any sympathy expressed for the victim or her partner. And if memory serves, they were closely linked to an incarcerated skinhead and/or some kind of dog-mill to produce those horrible animals.
In retrospect, that may be the case that permanently compromised my ability to sympathize the owners of vicious dogs.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Some sick shit, IIRC.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)This is ridiculous.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)"13-year-old aunt"
Oh, wait...
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)"That dog should be killed and aunt charged"
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)I am happy to see that the dog was killed and the grandmother was charged.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Jackson, 45, who lives in a different apartment in this New York City suburb of 200,000, was ordered held on $15,000 bail Thursday, Yonkers Corporation Counsel Michael Curti said. The dog was euthanized the same day at the city's animal shelter.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)and the posting of this graphic:
Sid
Drale
(7,932 posts)its 100% true. Look at that story about the "pitbulls" that attacked the kids on the playground. Later that day, the media changed it to Rottweilers and later just dogs. Pitbulls can be dangerous just like any other dog, but the media has decided that the Pitbull should be exterminated so every dog attack was perpetrated by a pitbull. Blame the owner not the dog.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Many shelter dogs mislabeled "pit bulls"
Because of this, any breed identification by the of a "Pit Bull" is suspect. IT'S MOST LIKELY INCORRECT!
Of course, the OP doesn't even try to address the true causes of such incidents: How was the dog trained? How was the interaction between the dog & the child supervised? Was the dog altered or unaltered?
Statistics show the breed doesn't matter. If it did, all the media hype about "dangerous dogs" would be about German Shepherds and Labrador Retrievers:
The absolutely moronic hysteria born out of debased and unrepentant ignorance promoted by the dog haters and on display in this thread leads to equally moronic BSLs:
Orrex
(63,203 posts)When someone says "I've owned several pit bulls," I'm sure that they specifically and exclusively mean that they have owned several American Pit Bull Terriers or the American Staffordshire Terrier. In short, specificity and precision are only important when it's convenient for pit bull advocates to demand them. Otherwise, to hell with it.
And we all know that Toronto represents the entirety of the North American dog bite statistcal universe.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The bottom line is that dogs are bred for certain behaviors and characteristics.
Pit bulls HAVE IT IN THEIR DNA to kill and maim. It can't be trained completely out of them.
This dog was doing what it was bred to do. In that regard, it *IS* humans' fault.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And having them around children is criminally negligent.
31 people were killed by dogs in 2011, half were pitbulls. 41 people were killed by tvs falling on them, 52 died falling from ladders, 110 accidentally hung themselves, and 96 fell off a building. Lets commit genocide on an entire breed of dog because of 16 bad dogs. Pits can be as dangerous as any other breed if not trained correctly and this dog was not socialized correctly. Blame the owner not the dog. O yeah I almost forgot in 2011 its estimated that African Americans were responsible for 52% of all murders, should we blame all African Americans for the actions of those few, is being a friend to an African American a "Selfish act"? 97% of all child molesters are male, is it criminally negligent to have children around men? Your extremely ignorant and your argument is invalid.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Or even dogs in general, or even cats.
Please read again exactly what I wrote and don't read anything more into it than the fact that it's selfish to own a dangerous animal (unless you know you can control it) and it's criminal to let a child near one (as well as with other breeds and animals).
I did not know that half of cases of dogs killing people were pits.
That's worse than I thought.
The rest of your attempt at making an argument is not particularly convincing.
I never even said that we should destroy the breed so you're pretty out there about this.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I have owned two of each breed and you could not ask for any better behaved dogs.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)1) Lack of parental supervision.
2) Mostly male younger children (you know, who pull tails and such).
3) Untrained un-neutered male dogs with no good socialization.
4) Nobody actually knows what a pit bull is.
Let's swap out 3) in this case with "Untrained female dog who is protective of teenage owner snuck up on while sleeping."
BTW, as far as "breeds" go, you know what breed sends the most to the hospital?
Chihuahuas
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)How do infants under 2 years of age "pull tails and such" ?
>>Of the total children killed by dogs in 2012, 79% (15) were ages 2-years and younger.<<
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I was thinking my next dog would be a beagle, but then beagles kill until I read it was because of a leash incidence - dogs don't control what people/kids do with leashes.
Then I see where a border collie is involved in an attack - but it was with other dogs in a group - but my border collie had no interest in being in a group, My mom did yell at me letting my niece sleep with the dog, but from this I can see where it is not the sleeping child, but anyone/thing that enters the room. My border collie only turned threatening when she saw any one hit a child. She seemed to want to be a mom, she loved kids and let them poke her or hit her. Adults not so much.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Dogs can smell aggression and they are keen to perceive nuances of body language. They react quickly in the moment and sometimes the damage done has to do with how fast the other party reacts and protects itself.
I trust my dogs with all children and most other dogs BUT I am still wary and alert to what could happen. Many kids walk around with food in their hand and they can look like they are offering it. Then you have well-meaning people who want your dog to get very excited -- they talk in the high voice, widen their eyes, etc. but expect you to control your dog completely no matter what they have just done to get it hyped up and potentially out of control. Many people want to feed your dog a treat and it is a bad idea IMHO. Every time you feed a dog you are training it to repeat whatever it did in the 5 to 10 seconds leading up to the treat. So for those who want to see your dog go crazy, they are training your dog to go crazy.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)the only food she can eat without permission is in her bowl. And, yes people keep thinking that it is cruel to do that, but people eating and dog eating are different things, My dog is also not allowed to take food off the counter (this is a constant struggle) or go into the dining room. You have to train dogs, they are not good by people spoiling them. I had someone stay with me for a month and every time I turned around she was giving the dog a treat - it is sad when someone feels they need to buy love and she was pushing the treat at the dog without using the key words. Won't be a guest too soon again. I remember when Sadie was a puppy and she walled by a shrimp dish on the coffee table. after 4 hours she could not stand it any more, and snuck a shrimp,. I reached in her mouth and removed it to a chorus of boos - I can't believe people don't train their dogs! But that is probably the cause of most of the problems.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)I encourage people to see that my dogs interest in them is not about food but about attention, curiosity and real affection. Trying to get them to the idea that once they become an intermitent food source then the primary relationship they lock themselves into is food source.
A dog is one of the only species on earth that will look a human (fellow predator) in the eyes. (cats do also) Every other eye to eye encounter in the natural world between predators of different species is a challenge, a hostile exchange. I would say that not only can you not really 'buy the love' of the dog but when someone just treats the dog in order the keep its attention they preclude the other exchange. They are a slot machine of treats and the dog is an addict.
On the other hand I can see that they do it out of love (and their own hunger to be loved).
My dogs are huge so I need for them to be respectful and not approach any stranger or frail person on whom they smell food in a manner that is in any way physical. It is for their own protection and for their own quality of life. My dogs love people. They don't want a treat nearly as much as they want attention and a greeting. I want them to be well mannered so that they can have more positive encounters with more people. I also don't want them eating things which are outright harmful to them like cheese, grains, garlic, grapes, chocolate, caffeine, tobacco, Chinese dog treats, on and on. we were on the street and a stranger just wiped something out his pocket and gave it to one of my dogs. It took me a second or two to react. It was so something I would never do that it took a second to register. I am much quicker to react now and my hand will go right to my dogs mouth while I tell them "thanks but please don't feed my dog"
But again, I see affection and the quest for affection behind the "treats" that others want to give and I try to keep my reaction in line with that.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Off-topic but how does that happen?
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)any of the pit bulls and Rottweilers I have also owned. They all were wimps compared with my Chihuahua.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)Really? I'd like to hear about some of these vicious Chihuahua attacks that require hospitalization...
Orrex
(63,203 posts)Problem solved.
Great visual!
"rampaging Chihuahua"
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)You could stuff her in a shoebox if you could catch her. They are fast. Believe me, I know. It is impossible to get her if she doesn't want to be caught
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)I was attacked by one when I was 2. It latched on to me right in the armpit and wouldn't let go.
I didn't even need stitches, and it didn't leave a scar.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)and is often overly protective of them.
I think alot of times people to read obaut breed characteristics before choosing a dog.
renie408
(9,854 posts)You are more unwittingly dangerous to Pit Bulls than One Strike laws.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)A twofer!
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)progressoid
(49,978 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i guess
JVS
(61,935 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Except all those one-offs that keep happening, like hands and genitals being ripped off.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)He (She) wouldn't hurt a fly."
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)The child then screamed and declared, "Doggie Kissed Me!" Mother collapses in tears of laughter!
That's why I own the dog I own. That is what he does to small children when they pull on his ears.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I used to have a Basset Hound. The only thing she ever attacked was a bird...which she caught mid-air. Winifred could freaking jump.
Anyway, a pic of your baby please?
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)As soon as I get into a "real" house, I'm getting another Basset. And a Jack Russell...cannot wait!
I'm sure that baby isn't spoiled, correct?
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)He's a good sort of dog. We rescued him from a shelter, but they had no idea whether he was good with cats, so we were a bit concerned. He and the cats took to each other quite easily, and now I often see all three of them in the dog bed together, since the weather is getting colder. Here are Dude and our 17 year old tortie:
We also didn't know how he'd be with children. We took him out the next day to meet our neighbor's children. He was excited to see them and ran over toward them. But, just as he got to them, he stopped and stood stock still right in front of them and lowered his head. The children petted him, pulled his ears, and did all the things children do to dogs. He just stood there, wagging his tail as hard as he could. That's when he "kissed" the little 2-year-old. I had him on a very short leash, of course.
Now, all of the children for blocks around know him by name, and yell, "Hi, Dude!" when he's on a walk. He has met them all and looks forward to seeing them. He's just a big, slow-moving old soul.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Poor baby.
It's awesome that you rescued him.
I'm so very jealous at this moment...
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Hey everything's fine just don't scare him none or he will bite your dick off. Yeah, responsible pet ownership my ass.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I was beginning to believe we had seen the last of DU's pit bull fetish, at least for this year. Now we'll get a 300 or 400 post thread on the subject.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)sagat
(241 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Sounds kind of hard.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Even if there's only a small chance the dog will snap and bite, it's still too much, because of the tremendous damage it's capable of doing. All breeds of dogs can and will bite if the conditions are there (too much dominance/aggression, fear, food guarding), but most aren't gnawing off entire body parts. I never once feared that my dogs would literally tear off a part of my child. WHY would you want that around?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)dog euthanized, owners charged.
It is truly unfortunate that this poor child will live with the guardian's lack of judgement for the rest of his life. It is unfair.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I'm not following the "finally" part of your post.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)I think that is appropriate in this horrific case - don't you?
I cannot remember reading of any recent pit bull incidents where this has happened.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)No precedent was set in this particular instance.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Dog-owner-charged-with-manslaughter-in-girls-death-114666314.html
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2013/09/11/pit-bull-owner-anthony-ruff-charged-dog-viciously-attacks-toddler/
http://news.sky.com/story/1097880/pit-bull-owner-charged-with-murder-of-jogger
DrDan
(20,411 posts)were any of those dogs euthanized? I did a quick scan of the three and did not see that mentioned.
That would be appropriate, don't you think?
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. That kid's penis isn't coming back whether they charge the grandma or not. And I doubt when he's old enough to know what it's there for it's going to matter to him that she was charged. He'll just want his penis back.
But nice attempt of painting anyone who doesn't agree with you as an ignorant asshat with the "aren't you?" question. Very similar to the "You do want us to win in Iraq don't you?" comments I got from conservatives any time I brought up what a shit show that war was.
DU has a pit bull fetish. That much I do know.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)I think I will waste no more time with this
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Apparently, or rather, lack of reading comprehension skills. At NO POINT did I say that I didn't care that the kid's penis was bitten off. What I said was it DOESNT MATTER TO ME if the grandmother is charged at this point because it solves nothing.
Shall I draw you a picture?
And before you reach for the "what about murderers?" false equivalency I'd point out that we know next to nothing about this family. If the grandma is a neglectful, thug, or miscreant, or low life with a lengthy criminal past then perhaps charges are in order.
If grandma is someone who is sweet, kind, loving and otherwise law abiding citizen who happens to have made a really bad fucking choice when it comes to dog ownership, then I'm not sure she and the rest of the family should be forced to suffer any more than they have.
I don't know the answer to that, and I'd wager, neither do you.
Life is not always so black and white.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)"It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. That kid's penis isn't coming back whether they charge the grandma or not."
and this: " . . . then I'm not sure she and the rest of the family should be forced to suffer any more than they have." That is such a TYPICAL pit bull apologist reply. The boy is mutilated and your concern lies with the suffering of the owner/guardian. What absolute crap.
I am done with this ridiculous sub-thread . . .
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)That comment was about the CHARGES. You asked if I cared about CHARGES being filed.
But you knew that already.
At any rate, I'm glad you're done with this as I find dullards to be quite tiresome.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Was he not wearing any pants?
If that's the case, there may be more serious issues here.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Sleep.
You change out of your normal clothes for pj's that are, generally, made out of a lighter material when you go to sleep.
That said, Pit's come with a set of these things called Teeth. Things that are good for biting into, and tearing, things.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)lumpy
(13,704 posts)obvious that they can be especially prone to acts of this nature.