It turns out Fox really isn't a danger to American political life

[BainsBane]

or our democracy. Thanks to consumers of rape porn, I've learned that media has no impact on one's consciousness, no matter how much time someone spends watching it. Therefore all the worrying about Fox News contaminating the minds of American voters cannot be true. Whether one watches PBS, Democracy Now, MSNBC or Fox, it apparently doesn't matter. There is a firm wall between media and reality. So no more worrying about the fairness doctrine. We can breath a sigh of relief.

[seabeyond]

1. yea. so i do not have to PARENT any more and kids could do, watch, expeirence whatever the fuck

man. wont that make parenting easy. good to know none of society has an effect on us at all.

brilliant.

[BainsBane]

2. Still waiting for others to concur

Or to tell us if it is only porn from which the brain entirely impervious.

[seabeyond]

3. see... ya. that. surely there is a GLARING difference. surely. oh ya.... cause. lol nt

[seabeyond]

4. well. let see. i guess then religion has no influence? nt

[BainsBane]

5. I'd be interested in hearing perspectives of how some thing rape porn and religion are different

or similar in their capacity to influence society.

[seabeyond]

9. ha ha. and i was going to say, has to be in changing a definition like we do with rape and violence

and sure enough. lmfao. that is exactly it.

bah hahahah

too too too rich

[rrneck]

16. The bible is fiction too

and literalists cause a lot of trouble because of their failure to acknowledge that fact.

[rrneck]

6. I guess it depends what kind of a literalist you are.

And if you treat Fox et al as literally true, that would be a problem. Of course, since Fox et al tout themselves as journalists and purveyors of facts, which can be assumed to be literally true, then you're going to have a bit of a problem with reality. Now, assuming a fictional presentation of certain sexual practices is literally true would put one's position in relationship to reality on the wrong side of the same veracity line as well, wouldn't it?

[gollygee]

7. So where does this put

Rape porn marketed as actual rape? People are watching it believing that, or at least hoping that, there is an actual rape being documented on the tape, because it is a marketing tool to call it real rape.

[rrneck]

11. In the same place as any other fiction

that is intended to mimic but not reproduce actual occurrences.

[gollygee]

17. It is intended to reproduce in these cases

Or it might actually be rape as that is what the claim is. Why would it claim to be rape if it isn't? Why would that be a selling point?

[rrneck]

22. Why would that be a selling point?

Because some people get off on that shit. Some people like to jump motorcycles. Other people like to watch people jump motorcycles.

If it's actually rape it's evidence of a crime and that crime should be prosecuted. The question to ask at that point is the same question that should be asked of all sexual activity and depictions thereof - was it consensual? If the answer is yes it wasn't rape. Documentation of that consensual activity and eligibility of participation should be required.

[seabeyond]

25. they can get off on what they THINK is real rape but they shouldnt get off on REAL rape?

is that what you are saying?

[EOTE]

65. Yes, I believe that is what he is saying.

Just as people can watch The Blair Witch Project while thinking it's real, but they can't watch the actual filmed murder of people.

[gollygee]

38. It is being called actual rape

If it isn't actual rape it shouldn't be trying to pass itself off as it. And only a sick fuck wants to watch people actually and truly get raped. That is just a plain old fact.

[rrneck]

45. Yes, it's a fact.

But if nobody actually got raped, there is nothing to prosecute. Fiction is free to pass itself off as anything it wants.

[gollygee]

48. If it shows someone getting raped

and there is a sticker on it saying it is a real rape, then there is something to prosecute. So the UK created a law that they can prosecute that, and people said that it is an infringement upon someone's rights. That's what started this discussion.

[rrneck]

50. Is the sticker certification or advertising?

If the latter, there is nothing to prosecute.

[gollygee]

53. It is an admission of guilt.

[rrneck]

63. Then the trial will not be lengthy. ntt

[rrneck]

64. This'll really bake your noodle...

Somebody in another thread claimed experience in the porn business. They claimed you could tell the difference between real and fake stuff.

What's to keep producers of the fake stuff from mimicking the real stuff to make it seem more "authentic" and "forbidden"? It's just a question of cinematography.

[xulamaude]

19. So you're saying that Fox News is fiction

and only mimics reality?

[rrneck]

26. The bulk of it, yes.

The mix of opinion and news along with manipulative graphics makes it more fiction than journalism in my mind. Granted, I haven't seen much of it, and I don't plan to. But the last time I saw it I was appalled.

[xulamaude]

30. I agree that it is pretty fantastical but

a whole lot of people genuinely believe what FN is selling and they are real people who vote and pay taxes and other 'good american' things.

[rrneck]

33. True that, and it's a damn shame.

But it's not new. Bullshit is as old as communication. I think education is the best fix.

[xulamaude]

41. My point is this though:

that just because some people 'can' tell the difference (or think they can) many others do/can/will not because it's what they want to hear, see and believe just like rape porn.

[rrneck]

43. Stupid ain't illegal.

Neither is kinky.

ETA

I don't think we can build a bubble around people to protect them from themselves.

[seabeyond]

46. people are not talking about legality. that is not the issue we are addressing. nt

[rrneck]

47. You're addressing your umbrage.

Fine by me.

[seabeyond]

49. no. i am staying on point calling out strawman. nt

[rrneck]

51. What do you want? nt

[seabeyond]

52. world peace?

[rrneck]

59. Me too. ntt

[seabeyond]

56. really what i want is poeple to be honest about ti and not pretend that this garbage has no effect

on us as people. it is a stupid ass position. and it is dishonest.

others may want other stuff. i want honesty.

[rrneck]

58. That's understandable.

And it does have an effect.

[rrneck]

62. What issue are you addressing?

That bad fiction is bad? That bad fiction has an impact on people? Of course it does. We don't know how much of an affect it has. We don't know if it results in any behavior at all. We don't know how to censor fiction equitably or effectively.

At some point the discussion has to become something more that the caterwauling of moral outrage.

[xulamaude]

54. Not yet anyway.

I think we should protect people who are unable to protect themselves and to keep them from having to do things they would rather not.

But that's what makes me dreamer.

(gotta go do some stuff - thanks for the exchange.)

[rrneck]

60. Backatcha.

Have a good day.

[BainsBane]

8. Except the pornographers claim it is real

and bill it as such, seemingly because that is what viewers want to believe. In many ways, it is more real than Fox. Pornography depicts rape and sometimes stages real rape. Those are experiences millions of women and men have gone through. I did a Google search under rape porn and the top results I turned up were "Indian gang rape," "drunk girl rape," and "military women raped." They are clearly appealing to those turned on by reported cases of actual rape.

The premise that rape porn has no influence on rape or society in general is founded on the notion that what one watches in no way influences him. If that is so, it should apply to any and all media.

[rrneck]

12. There is an implicit claim of reality in all fiction.

There has to be a connection to reality because without the context of reality it wouldn't work.

[seabeyond]

18. so a man believing it is rape and getting off on what he thinks is rape, but rape victims

are not allowed to be bothered that men are getting off on what real rape is..... you know, what the rape victim actually experienced, cause it is fiction?

wowser

[xulamaude]

21. Not only that but rrneck stated upthread

that the bible is fiction but that hasn't stopped it (and those who believe in its authenticity) from damaging/ending millions or even billions of real people's lives.

[seabeyond]

23. i know.... such a twisting all over the place to make it fucking work. and it doesnt. nt

[rrneck]

28. Sure

You know, biblical literalism and the whole Inquisition Copernicus thing...

You are aware of Christian Dominionists in this country, are you not?

[xulamaude]

34. I sure am. Very, very much so

because CDs are just one faction of folks hanging out under the patriarchal umbrella.

These are (obviously?) the kinds of things I like to be knowledgeable about. Thanks for the link though.

[rrneck]

24. They can be bothered,

but we can't legislate a protective bubble for them.

And veterans should avoid screenings of Saving Private Ryan if they suffer PTSD.

[seabeyond]

27. i am not talking legislation. nor is baine. it is the validation on getting off on what a man thinks

is rape.

that is what we are talking. and when you cant wiggles yourself out of that one, the go to is.... no law, no ban. wtfever.

address the issue. if a man thinks it is rape and gets off on it, it is him getting off on real rape, even if it is not. so men are getting off on rape. that simple. that is DISGUSTING

[rrneck]

31. Wiggle out of what?

Oh, you're afraid I'll try to wiggle out of acknowledging your emotional response? Is that why we're here, to validate our feelings? Okay, I think it's sick. Feel better?

[seabeyond]

32. emotional? i would say i am a hell of a lot more pragmatic about it than you appear to be.

fuckin for real?

[rrneck]

36. "fuckin for real"

I love a good pun.

[seabeyond]

40. then you would love my post about redefining violence in order to swallow the violence. nt

[rrneck]

44. I might if you'd post a link. nt

[seabeyond]

29. and it will have an effect on a man just as fox, just as any of the other crap we threw up, that is

fiction that the person believes is real

[rrneck]

35. I'll let you in on a little secret...

everything we perceive with our five senses has an effect on us, as everything we perceive in ourselves.

[seabeyond]

37. clue in, dude. i am not the one that denies the obvious. nt

[BainsBane]

70. That is nonsensical

There is real rape filmed and sold as pornography all the time. So quite obviously it works.

[rrneck]

76. That is nonsensical

Real rape is not fiction, it's a crime and the video is evidence of such.

[BainsBane]

77. Some pornography chronicles real rape

Additionally, no small number of pron workers are enslaved, therefore any sex they engage in is rape since they have not consented. Your assertion that real rape would not work is the genre is demonstrably false.

[rrneck]

78. And some food is tainted with salmonella.

What's your point?

[BainsBane]

79. I misunderstood an earlier point you made

Thus the cross communication.

The argument that something does not affect behavior because it is "fiction" does not hold water. 1) Porn is not billed as fiction. It is advertised as real and can also be real. 2) If fiction were so irrelevant to our lives and had so little influence, why would we read literature? Why would play writes and poets write? Clearly, art has an impact on the human imagination. You seem to think news does, yet have decided porn is somehow immune. It makes no sense. Whatever one spends a significant amount of time watching or doing is going to influence how they see the world.

[rrneck]

80. That's cool.

As to the other, actually no. I have said more than once that porn has an impact. Everything that touches our five senses has an impact as well as the chemical stew in our skulls. The problem is that the nature and extent of that impact is impossible to measure.

As I recall, the first post I made regarding this issue was, "You can't regulate fiction."

[lame54]

10. Glad that's settled

[tblue37]

13. Also, businesses can save millions and millions of dollars that they've been wasting on

TV and radio ads!

[BainsBane]

14. Excellent point

Our minds take in no external influences whatsoever, so what is it that advertisers have been spending money on?

[seabeyond]

20. oh, damn. i always bring up the ads. ya. that. nt

[Kingofalldems]

15. What consumers of rape porn? DUers?

[BainsBane]

55. Yes, have you missed the recent

threads on the subject? There have been MANY.

[snooper2]

39. If it's not too windy so I don't have to continually dick around with the smoker

I was thinking of making some of these on the side Thursday. Ham and turkey breast in the smoker is #1 priority but if I don't have to keep running in and out these look fun!

[ZombieHorde]

42. This has actually been proven to be true,

according to my communication classes. The media can generally tell people what to think about, but it cannot generally tell people how to think. Not only this, but if a person identifies with one political position, then facts and stories that contradict this position will most likely cause the person to double down on the originally held belief.

If you watch Fox News for an hour a day, you won't become a conservative because of it.

[seabeyond]

57. in a society where men are harolded as all that and their sexual premise is gold,

that women are there to serve, arent the men already conditioned to take this crap and internalize it just like the fox news watcher that is repug and their want to believe this crap is simply being fed.

[BainsBane]

75. Here's my view on the parallel

Rape porn doesn't turn peaceful men who like women into rapists. Those men don't watch rape porn in the first place. Those who do are already disposed to rape. They wouldn't watch rape porn in the first place if they didn't find violation of women erotic. The porn normalizes rape, breaks down their inhibitions, over time it no longer satisfies their desires, and eventually some turn to rape.

Just like watching Fox news makes people more likely to vote Republican. A sold Democrat won't watch much Fox to begin with, but someone disposed to that view point will, and their political views will change over time.

[Rex]

61. False analogy, rape porn is not lying, rape porn is real and happens it is not a farce.

Foxnews tells lies all day long, you cannot really compare a company that lies to someone watching rape porn all day long. Your apples to oranges ratio is way off.

[BainsBane]

66. Only many have insisted rape porn is fantasy

It is merely fiction, which is why, they insist, it has absolutely no influence on anyone who watches it.

[Rex]

67. Well as I said in another thread, anyone that has a rape porn fetish

needs to seek professional help. My question to them is, how do you know you are watching 'rape porn' and not an actual rape video?

[BainsBane]

68. Oh, I agree

I think you realize my point was to highlight one glaring fallacy in their justification of rape porn.

As for your question about whether or not its actual rape: they don't really care. The response is "rape is already illegal." They feel no responsibility not to financially subsidize it. Additionally, if they are so intent that the whole genre is about fantasy, why would they watch porn billed as real rape? Why do so many pornographers insist it is real?

[Rex]

69. Same reason the Church turns a blind eye to their rape problem.

We have huge instiutions (porn is just as big as religion imo) that chose to ignore the obvious. Rape is not about sex, but now thanks to 'rape porn'...it is. Just don't agree with the premise. Never will.

[BainsBane]

72. We need more like you in the world, Rex.

[Rex]

73. Thanks!

I am always glad to talk with like minded people!

Rape, like global child slavery/prostitution is just as real and in your face as hunger and war. People can ignore these atrocities behind their monitor and sitting in their comfy chair all they want to YET nobody - NOBODY - should enable the notion that rape and sex can be compatible. It is like saying war and peace are compatible. They are not and never will be. Don't do it, it is a losing argument.

Very illuminating thread BB. I am glad not everyone here is shunned into silence about rape culture.

[BainsBane]

74. You might have noticed

It's next to impossible to silence me.

[BainsBane]

71. It also means all the hue and cry about the 60 minutes piece on Benghazi

is meaningless since media cannot influence how people think.