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[WilliamPitt]

This message was self-deleted by its author (WilliamPitt) on Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:34 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ErikJ]

1. Is saying youre Atheorist like saying you dont believe in science?

[el_bryanto]

2. I think the key word is belief in that quote - Atheists don't like the suggestion that they believe

something, because it doesn't take belief to be an atheist - simply a recognition of facts.

I am a believer, but it's worthwhile to understand where others are coming from as best you can.

Bryant

[EOTE]

3. Being an atheist doesn't require a recognition of facts as there are no facts which affirm atheism.

Just as there are no facts which affirm theism. Agnosticism seems to be the most scientific position available.

[el_bryanto]

5. You might feel that way, but many Atheists feel differently nt

[EOTE]

11. Many people believe many things, that doesn't make them right.

I find the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" defense of atheism to be quite silly. As if there's an equal basis for dismissing a divine creature made of pasta and a divine creator. The use of entheogens throughout history has provided experiences which provide people with the certainty of an afterlife and a higher power. These are very much the same experiences that people get when they go through near death experiences. There is something in our bodies which allows for these experiences. I'm not saying that's in anyway close to providing proof of a higher power, but to say that such a belief is equally invalid as belief in a "Flying Spaghetti Monster" is ludicrous.

[gcomeau]

8. Argh...

You cannot be an agnostic as an alternative to being an atheist or theist any more than you can be an accountant as an alternative to being an atheist or theist. They deal with comepletly different subjects!!!!!

I'm going to win the battle to educate the public on this one day through sheer perseverance... I swear...






All people, every single one, falls in one of those four boxes. And no, you are not standing on one of the lines.

[EOTE]

10. You are more than welcome to explain this.

In my mind, an atheist proclaims that there is no god while an agnostic claims there is no way to know whether or not a good can exist. I don't see how one can be both simultaneously.

[NuclearDem]

14. You're confusing anti-theism with atheism.

Anti-theists claim there is no god.

Atheists simply aren't convinced that there is.

One makes a claim, the other rejects a claim. Atheism is the starting position when it comes to theist claims.

Gnosticism/agnosticism and theism/atheism aren't mutually exclusive. Theism/atheism is a statement of belief on the issue of a god, while Gnosticism/agnosticism are beliefs on whether something can be known.

I'm an agnostic atheist. I reject existing claims about the existence of a god, but don't believe that I can hold that belief to a high level of certainty. Gnostic atheists believe they can.

[EOTE]

21. Thanks for the clarification.

I still don't quite see how some of those aren't mutually exclusive, but I'm a bit clearer now. For instance, I don't see how an agnostic, who thinks that there is no way of determining whether or not a god exists can either affirm or reject a belief in god. I understand that personal beliefs affect us all, but it seems to me that if theism and gnosticism are entirely separate things, that theism would need to be defined as believing that it's more likely than not that god exists and nothing more.

[NuclearDem]

30. Degrees of certainty.

This is getting into philosophy class material, but the difference is the level of certainty each label applies to.

Belief (theism/atheism) is just holding an idea to be rationally true, but knowledge (gnostic/agnostic) is certainty to such a degree that it would be worldview altering to discover it's not true (gravity, for example).

There's a huge debate in the atheism community about these definitions, but that's the system I've gone by for a while.

[stopbush]

29. I consider myself an anti-theist, but in the same way Christopher Hitchens

was an anti-theist, ie: that the world would be a better place were theism to go away.

[gcomeau]

17. Atheism and theism...

...are the two different states that people occupy regarding belief in the existence of a deity.

If you possess a belief in a deity, you are a theist. If you don't possess that belief you are an atheist.

Gnosticism and agnosticism are the two different states people occupy regarding what they believe about the nature of deity (WHETHER OR NOT they believe such a deity actually exists). If you believe that due to the way the nature of deity is defined certain knowledge about whether or not such an entity exists cannot be attained, you are an agnostic. If you believe acquiring certain knowledge about whether or not such an entity exists is possible you are a Gnostic.


I am an agnostic, because I recognize that an entity which is assigned supernatural powers is not subject to any rational investigative process, and the hypothesis that such an entity exists is unfalsifiable.

I am an atheist because I do not possess the belief that such an entity actually exists.


I cannot however be an agnostic as an alternative to being an atheist (or a theist). Because there is no such thing as an alternative to being an atheist or a theist. No matter how many people want to pretend agnosticism is such an alternative. (And it is an astoundingly large number of people, hence my frequent "arghs&quot

[EOTE]

20. I still don't understand how theism can overlap with agnosticism.

If you believe that certain knowledge of a god cannot exist, how can you have a certain knowledge of a god? It seems to me that if you are going to say that they can coincide, you'd have to redefine theism to mean that you simply think it's more likely that a god does exist than doesn't. Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

[gcomeau]

23. I repeat

Theism = possess the BELIEF that a deity exists. That has nothing to do with a claim of certain knowledge.

Now a theist could still claim such knowledge, in which case they're obviously not an agnostic.

Or... "I don't think it's possible to KNOW if God exists or not but I BELIEVE God exists." ---> Agnostic theist.

Or... "I don't think it's possible to KNOW if God exists or not but I do not believe God exists." ---> Agnostic atheist.


Etc.

[EOTE]

28. So, a person who is 51% convinced of a god is a theist?

And one who is 49% convinced of a god is an atheist? I suppose there has to be a defined limit when dealing with things like this, but such cutoffs seem a bit silly to me. It also seems odd that there doesn't seem to be a name for the middle pack of folks, who might think that there's a 30% to 70% chance of there being a god or an alternative to a strong theist or atheist.

[gcomeau]

31. Expressions of percentages have no meaning here.

I don't care what level of confidence any given person would assign to their position. Irrelevant. What determines whether they are atheist or theist is their answer to a completely binary yes/no question.

Do they believe God exists?


They either do or they don't. Plain and simple.

[EOTE]

35. And what if you don't know? Or if you think that God could exist just as likely as God doesn't?

As an agnostic, I don't think it's possible to prove the existence of God, that much I'm clear on. As for whether I'm an atheist or theist, I'm a lot less clear on that one. If someone asks me if I believe in God, I wouldn't feel that a yes or no would adequately express my belief. I can't even say if I think it's more likely that God exists than doesn't. So, seeing as there are plenty of people who couldn't answer yes or no to such a question, shouldn't there be a word to describe them as well?

[gcomeau]

43. Here we go...

I swear 99% of these conversations this happens eventually.


Now think about this carefully please. What if you don't know what exactly?

[EOTE]

47. What if one doesn't know whether or not they believe a God is more likely to exist than doesn't.

I certainly couldn't put a percentage to my belief in a god. If I were to be pressed, I'd probably say I consider both options to be equally likely.

[gcomeau]

63. Think that through.

You would be declaring you are unaware of the content of your own thoughts. Pretty much the one thing in all of existence you should be entirely capable of knowing above all other things.

That would not be a philosophical position, that would be a mental disorder. You might make the argument you were schizophrenic or suffering from multiple personality disorder and didn't know what the other "you's" in your head thought... but that wouldn't be an argument you were an agnostic. That would be an argument that you would benefit from seeing a mental health professional.

[eomer]

114. That's because you're wrong and always have been wrong.

Belief isn't binary. No matter how many times you say it is. People are more complicated than that. They can simultaneously have some thoughts that would point toward belief and other thoughts that would point toward non-belief and not have resolved them.

[cleanhippie]

33. Sweet Jesus, man, why so obtuse?

Theism is about BELIEF, Gnosticism is about KNOWLEDGE.

The Theist BELIEVES in a god, the atheist LACKS A BELIEF in a god.

The Gnostic KNOWS about god, the agnostic LACKS KNOWLEDGE about a god.

They. Are. Two. Different. Things.

[cleanhippie]

39. Your "question" ignores the facts and makes false assumptions.

You either do not or chose not to understand the definition of these words and how they are used.

[EOTE]

42. It does not. And you have added exactly zero to the discussion.

There are people participating in this discussion who have managed to remain civil. Since that's obviously well beyond your ability, I'd appreciate it if you'd simply bow out and allow me to discuss with them.

[cleanhippie]

49. Pass. Until you get it right, I'll keep correcting you.

[cleanhippie]

53. Looks like a jury saw that YOU added nothing to the conversation.

Buh-bye, now.

[exboyfil]

115. Except by definition

A gnostic doesn't really know based upon factual evidence - none exist. The knowledge is internalized based upon some sort of faith experience. An agnostic knows that he is unaware about any factual evidence on the existence of God. You can never disprove the existence of God because it can always be defined in such a way that no measuring instruments can pick it up. The jackpot for the theist would be an unquestionable paranormal event that cannot be explained by science - good luck finding such an event.

[Marr]

121. Here's an easy way to tell if you're actually in that mythical 50-50 spot:

Do you think Poseidon is real? Think it's 50-50, just like the probability of the existence of the god you were raised to believe in?

No?

You're a theist.

[ieoeja]

24. Most Theists I know are Agnostic.

"I don't know for certain there is a god, but I believe there is."

That is a statement I have heard by many theists.

[EOTE]

40. I appreciate the response, but I'd like to know how you feel about my question in #28.

Is anyone who think it's more than likely that a God exists a theist? And is anyone who thinks that it's less than likely that a God exists an atheist? If that's the case, what would you call someone who believes both options are equally likely? If someone were to ask me if I believe God exists, I'd have a very hard time providing a yes or no answer.

[ieoeja]

44. Pure Agnostic n/t

[7962]

85. My 2 cents: If I believe and I'm wrong, oh well. If you DONT believe and you're wrong, uh-oh.

Simplistic, yes. I admit.

[PassingFair]

92. Oh yeah? What if there IS a heaven, but only Atheists can get in?

[7962]

95. Good one! But then how would they get there if there was no entity to GET them there?

And like the fellow in the clip says, I bet a lot of them would be pissed off that they were wrong and there WAS a heaven!!

Its like thinking about time travel, the possibilities are endless!!

[PassingFair]

97. Or not.

[cleanhippie]

102. What if you believe in the wrong god?

There have been some 5000+ gods that humans have believed in, what makes the god YOU believe in the right one? You're at as much risk as anyone else, believer or not.

What you propose is called Pascals Wager,

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html

[ieoeja]

109. If a god punishes people to immortal suffering because they did not bow down and worship it ...

... that god would be the ultimate evil. You have to admit that, "worship me because I will do horrible things to you otherwise," doesn't exactly make a god look like one of the good guys, does it? So if you are going with that as an argument, my reply to that argument would be:


If you believe and are right, you worship evil. If I DON'T believe and am wrong, I at least did not worship evil.


Not all believers, of course, believe in an evil god. Many worship their god because they believe it to be a source of good. It does not automatically follow that non-worshipers will be punished. In fact, if their god is good, it presumably will treat worshipers and non-worshipers with the same decency.

[cemaphonic]

118. Pascal's Wager - so dumb, even Homer Simpson spots the obvious flaw.

[7962]

119. Ha! Love Homer.

[hfojvt]

71. okay THAT is a bit confusing

because I myself would say the the knowledge of whether a deity exists COULD be possible, but at the same time I would say that such knowledge does NOT currently exist, which I always figured was agnosticism.

But when most people call themselves an agnostic, what they mean is "I don't believe in God, but I don't have the certainty of an atheist." In their mind an atheist says "I KNOW there is no god" whereas an agnostic says "I THINK there is no god".

Because in that box, there are "degrees of certainty" at least in the mind of the person.

[cleanhippie]

77. It's a common misconception.

I think it has more to do with the word "atheist" being viewed negatively while "agnostic" is not.

[hfojvt]

82. but it IS the way the word is used

back when I was an atheist, I used to think of agnostics as "an atheist without the guts to declare it".

[cleanhippie]

104. Sure, it's used by some that way.

Always by those of ignorant of the actual definition or those willfully ignoring the actual definition in order to support their own incorrect position, as evidenced many times in this thread.

[gcomeau]

83. Yeah I know...

The vast majority of the people who use the word "agnostic" use it wrong, which causes most people to think they're using it right since so many other people are using it the same way. It even reached the point that the usage became so popular it required it's own entry in the dictionary since the dictionary has to track what people mean when they say the word...

But that meaning (Basically, "I am neither a theist nor an atheist but somehow in between&quot is totally logically incoherent. No matter how many people want to say they are that... they aren't. Period. Just like if millions of people decided tomorrow that the word "Republican" actually meant "winged purple unicorn" then decided to start saying they were Republicans like that and not that other original way the word meant.

They can say it all they want. they can say it so often and persistently and widespread that the dictionary puts an entry next to "Republican" that says "winged purple unicorn".

Doesn't turn them into winged purple unicorns.

[cleanhippie]

18. "In my mind..." Right there is the problem.

You are defining words they way you WANT them to be, not the way they are.

Theism is the belief in a god, atheism is the lack of belief in a god.

Gnosticism is the knowledge of a god, agnosticism is the LACK of knowledge about a god.

Feel free to define words as you want, but it hinders discussion when all involved are not using the same definition.

[Hosnon]

19. (A)theism deals with belief; (A)gnosticism deals with knowledge.

(1) A gnostic theist believes and knows there is a god.

(2) A gnostic atheist does not believe in a god and knows there is no god.

(3) An agnostic theist believes there is a god but does not know there is a god.

(4) An agnostic atheist does not believe in a god and does not know there is no god.

These are strict definitions not always adhered to colloquially.

[Vattel]

27. Nah. Atheists deny the existence of God. Atheism is the proposition that God does not exist.

Agnostics neither affirm nor deny the existence of God because they believe that the case for theism and the case for atheism is not strong enough to justify either. Gnosticism was a religious sect that pretty much disappeared centuries ago.

[gcomeau]

32. As an atheist...

...allow me to inform you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Vattel]

34. lol, okay, if you say so.

[cleanhippie]

36. Sorry, that's wrong.

Theism is the BELIEF in a god, atheism is the LACK OF BELIEF in a god.

[Vattel]

38. well, I hate to appeal to a dictionary,

but Webster agrees with me: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

[cleanhippie]

46. Are you seriously trying to tell me and other atheists what we believe a what we don't?

Seriously?

Every atheist on this board has stated that they DO NOT BELIEVE in a god, which is very different from BELIEVING there is no god.

Do you not understand what the "a-" means when used in front of these words? It means "without" or "lacking".

Theism is the BELIEF in a god.

A-theism is the LACK of belief on a god.

[Vattel]

50. I am seriously telling you that you don't know what "atheism" means.

[cleanhippie]

52. Ok. Then what word defines my LACK OF BELIEF in a god.

Please, enlighten me.

[Rex]

58. "a disbelief in the existence of deity"

That is what the link says to the online dictionary. Don't know how the other poster is so confused, you are spot on.

[cleanhippie]

60. Yeah, I know. Par for the course with folks like this, they believe what they want to believe.

Regardless of the facts.

Thanks for the assist.

[Rex]

64. NP. Can't deny the words written on the dictionary site.

Right is right! Unless there is another way to use 'disbelief', that I've never heard of.

[Vattel]

62. sorry, I actually think that the term is somewhat ambiguous.

I would say that you are neither a theist nor an atheist. Sometimes agnostic is used to describe such a critter, but you are right that one acceptable meaning of atheism is the lack of belief in God's existence.

[Rex]

66. Agnostic is the belief in 'I Don't Know For Sure'.

Atheistic OTOH are convinced that there is no all powerful being behind the curtain of the Universe.

[Vattel]

67. I agree

[Marr]

122. Agnostics believe they cannot know the nature of the supernatural.

Gnostics believe they can.

Theists believe in the existence of a specific god. Atheists don't share that belief.

If you're a theist, you are also an atheist on the subject of thousands of other gods people have prayed to through the millenia. Do you define yourself as someone who 'denies the existence of Yoruba'? Doesn't that seem more antagonist than your actual feelings on the subject?

[cleanhippie]

69. Sorry, you're mistaken again.

Theism is about BELIEF.

Gnosticism is about KNOWLEDGE.

They are two very different words with two very different meanings. Again, the "a-" im front of either of those words literally means "without".

I am a agnostic atheist, meaning I do not BELIEVE in a god and I don't KNOW if one exists or not.

Does that clear things up?

[Rex]

72. Seems you and I fall into the same category.

Agnostic atheist here too.

[trekbiker]

81. agnostic atheist??

"I am a agnostic atheist, meaning I do not BELIEVE in a god and I don't KNOW if one exists or not."

sounds more like an agnostic, you are leaving open the possibilty of god's existence.

I used to think of myself as an agnostic. Then realized it was too wishy washy a position for me.

I KNOW gravity, planets, solar systems, etc., exist. I KNOW gods, magic, ghosts, heaven, hell, angels, etc., do not exist. Its that simple. I dont like to use the word "believe" as it just confuses the issue. A person may "believe" the world is flat. They are wrong, the world is not flat, I KNOW this.

Much the same as I KNOW life on other planets within the universe exists even without any shred of evidence whatsoever. It might only be at the level of a virus or bacteria however. Intelligent life capable of language and technology??? well call me agnostic on that

I like this last sentence in the dictionary definition:

"Logical positivism holds that propositions concerning the existence or nonexistence of God are nonsensical or meaningless."













.

[cleanhippie]

89. It seems you are confirming what I stated, and classify yourself as a...

Gnostic atheist.

[Rex]

51. Actually the dictionary backs up exactly what the other poster is saying.

Read the reply and then go look at the definition again.

[cleanhippie]

57. Dude, read your own Websters definition. You got it wrong. Very wrong.

[Vattel]

65. One definition is clearly on my side: "The doctrine that there is no God."

The other is too, if "disbelief" is defined in the way I think it should be: Disbelief in x implies belief in not-x. "She stared in disbelief" doesn't mean that she stared without believing.

[cleanhippie]

70. You're twisting like a pretzel here.

[Vattel]

74. Lol, okay, I surrender. I defined "atheism" too narrowly.

[cleanhippie]

76. If that makes you feel better.

[Dorian Gray]

61. I swear

I fall on the bullseye... right in the middle!

[Stuckinthebush]

87. There is no such thing as invisible purple unicorns

however, I don't believe we can ever know if there is such a thing as invisible purple unicorns.

The statement makes me an agnostic apupuraunicornis

There is no such thing as invisible purple unicorns and I know that there never will be evidence of such

That statement makes me a gnostic apupraunicornis

[AlbertCat]

84. Agnosticism seems to be the most scientific position available.

Atheists are agnostics. If god was somehow proven empirically they'd go with it.

But acknowledging all the time there might be some tiny chance that maybe some kind of god may or may not exist but there is absolutely zero evidence to even suggest that ultra slim possibility, is just stupid and not practical. I think we can just take that as a given.

[Tikki]

100. I am an atheist…"they found Elvis' guitar on the Moon…now prove me wrong!!!

..some live their life in a straight line…others go round and round."


Tikki

[cleanhippie]

15. Being an atheist is the LACK of belief.

Atheism makes no assertion, it's disbelief, not belief.

[el_bryanto]

73. Than what distinguishes it from agnosticism?

Do atheists assert that believers are factually incorrect about the existence of God?

Bryant

[cleanhippie]

75. Gnosticism is about KNOWLEDGE of a god.

As an agnostic atheist, I lack the BELIEF in a god and lack the KNOWLEDGE about the existence of a god.

Theism is about BELIEF.
Gnosticism is about. KNOWLEDGE.

Understand now?

[el_bryanto]

78. I guess i see where you are coming from

But you are aware that those words are used differently at times. Being an agnostic means that you don't know whether or not there is a God - which I guess ties to your statement. Atheist, as used popularly, usually implies an assertion that there is no God, which I gather you are not saying.

Bryant

[cleanhippie]

79. What you say is true, these words are commonly misused

What's important, IMO, is that people use the same definitions when discussing this topic. And I think we're on the same page now.

[zeemike]

96. Everyone believes in something

Some believe there is a god, some believe there is no god, some believe they cannot know whether there is a god and some believe they have knowledge of God.

So someone who had a lack of belief in god would stare back at you with blank eyes if you mentioned God.

The point I am making is that the LACK word is a defensive term, because they have attacked belief itself instead of the objective of it...and so they feel compelled to say they don't have it...when it is obvious we all do.

[cleanhippie]

99. You could not be more wrong.

I do not believe in a god. Period.

That's what we're talking about; belief in a god, not belief in something else. No one has claimed atheists do not believe, atheists do not believe in a god. See the difference?

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe in Zeus? That's a yes/no question. Either you do or you do not believe in Zeus. What's your answer?

[zeemike]

103. Well you miss the point.

And I may well regret even trying to make it....

You do not BELIEVE in a god....that is a beliefe...so there is no reason to attack belief itself by saying you LACK belief in a god...that implies that belief is the problem and is wrong.

And the answerer is YES...cause I read about it in Mythology long ago...so the idea of Zeus is real....and NO I don't believe he was a god as we think of gods...but that don't mean that his story was totally made up either because we could not know that...
Is that agnostic enough for you?

[cleanhippie]

105. Wait, what? Because I don't believe in a god I believe there is no god?

Am I reading you right?

And then you say you do not believe in Zeus, which makes you atheist on the position that Zeus is a god.

You're trying to have it both ways.

[zeemike]

111. No I am trying to explain to you that belief is not the problem

If someone believes one way or the other it is not a bad thing...we all believe one way or the other...if you have a problem with theist it is not because they believe...it is WHAT they believe that you have the problem with.

And of course Zeus is a straw man here but I will still answer it...I believe Zeus was a figure that people thousands of years ago believed was a god...but I was not there and so I don't know what he was or if he was, but I am not so sure of my omnipotent power of divining that I can say for sure just what the case was...and so I don't...and I don't make their belief an issue.

Now how is that having it both ways?...it is my way...a somewhat humble way that says I may not know it all...not even close to knowing it all.

[cleanhippie]

113. You've totally lost me and make no sense at all.

You stated that because I don't believe in a god that I believe there is no god.

Let me try explaining to you. You stated that you do not believe in Zeus. That makes you atheist on the subject of believing Zeus is a god. I'll assume that you hold the same disbelief about all the other 5000+ gods humans have ever believed in, except Yahweh (the god of the bible). That makes us both atheists about gods, except that I don't believe in only one more god than you.

The rest of your post is irrelevant. I could care less why you don't believe in Zeus, only wether you do or do not. You say you do not, and that makes you atheist regarding Zeus.

[zeemike]

116. Well I certainly did lose you if you think that is what I said.

And i suspect I could have not been more clear than my last post.

And when you say you only care whether I am with you or against you on my belief in Zeus that said to me it is pointless to continue....and what I say is irrelevant to you...fine, but what you say is not irrelevant to me...no one is.

[cleanhippie]

123. I don't think you said that, you explicitly DID say that.

You do not BELIEVE in a god....that is a beliefe

And take your persecution complex elsewhere. I asked you a simple yes/no question. Instead of answering such a simple question, you gave an answer that has nothing to do with the question at all.


Shall we start over? Do you believe in Zeus, yes or no?

[davekriss]

101. Popular shorthand for gnostic atheism?

"Atheism" in popular usage, albeit incorrect or at least insufficient, is held to mean "gnostic atheism": "I know there is no god, I thus don't believe in one".

That's a difficult position to hold, given the impossibility to falsify the common definitions of "god". (Perhaps that's why "atheism" is frequently frowned upon by many? It appears extreme.)

I think the popular (and, again, incorrect) usage of the word "agnostic" is meant to mean "I don't know if god exists or not and I am withholding belief until I know more". However, The latter half of that sentence means the speaker is an "atheist" (yes?), he or she lacks belief, but they are not yet "gnostic" and thus don't use the word "atheist" as defined above.

Language evolves. Who knows, maybe the popular definitions of these terms will someday supplant their philosophical meanings in our Oxfords. (Fun thread!)

[ErikJ]

16. Opposite of Atheism is Atheorist?

Theist is one who believes God made the universe and theorist is one who believes in questioning ideas and facts how the universe was made. So they would be opposites of each other, no? So a Creationist is an Atheorist.

I LOVED the cartoon by the way. Right on.

[eridani]

80. If atheism is a religion, then baldness is a hairstyle

Old saw--don't know who first said it.

[Nye Bevan]

4. In this context, does the phrase "believe in atheism" mean "believe that atheism exists"?

Or does it mean "be an atheist"?

But I do agree that the Crusades were awful.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Does anyone actually click links on this site any more?

*sigh*

[Scootaloo]

7. Naw, they're too busy typing "smart" replies with their thumbs

I think The Boondocks covered what I think if that pretty well.

[B Calm]

25. You don't want to smoke a doobie

and read this thread. It's pretty deep man!

[zeemike]

112. I did.

But the comparison to math stuck with me...as if there could be such a comparison.

[gcomeau]

9. Even though it's not quite right...

...seeing as nobody "believes in atheism", they just are atheists... I still like that cartoon and it does make a valid point.

[LadyHawkAZ]

12. I adore The Oatmeal

[truebrit71]

13. ROFL! 'Ich bin ein polynomial!'

[bobclark86]

56. "Wir müssen die Tangent ausrotten!!!"

War of the Cosines!

[Vattel]

22. Okay, that was awesome!

[MisterP]

26. that reminds me of how in the 17th c. they were saying that chemistry proved Protestantism

[WilliamPitt]

41. Only on DU can an Oatmeal cartoon start a flame war.

[Rex]

48. Oatmeal is a very controversial topic, the Cereal Cartels

make sure of that!

[A HERETIC I AM]

55. HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! LMAO!

I was just going to put up a post at the bottom congratulating you on your efforts!


Too funny.


How's the bubble wrapping of Lola coming?

[WilliamPitt]

68. With all deliberate speed.

[hfojvt]

59. you mean it was supposed to be funny?

Because it sorta looked like Christian-bashing.

And it really missed the point. By a few kiloparsecs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=146743&mesg_id=146867

And it's not really a true Scotman's fallacy to deny Hitler was a Christian. In order to actually BE a Christian there needs to be at least a reaonable attempt to follow the actual teachings of Christ.

[Rex]

45. So if I believe that god does not exist, I'm also likely to believe in mathematics?

I'll buy that for a dollar.

[rock]

54. Hitler was not an atheist, he was a theist

I also believe in math. If I didn't, I'd never set foot on a bridge.

[PATRICK]

88. If you trust the engineering and contract

process wasn't corrupted. Most people cope better being calmed down agnostics. Real knowledge and necessary living means we are always flying in the dark on someone else's airplane.

The issue isn't the God talk- which includes the antithesis but faith and belief inside the human sensory processors. We know shortcuts, thumbnails and contemporary edited traditions(our own memories always chemically changing). Self confidence in our beliefs reduces a much more logical, but debilitating, state of anxiety. And also tolerance, self reflection and change(which happens in spite of anything inside every person).

[rug]

86. This thread has gone about as expected.

[WilliamPitt]

106. I should have known.

[mwooldri]

90. Random fact: Zero was influenced by Hinduism and Jainism...

Both Jain texts and stone carvings in a Hindu temple show the first existence of the use of zero (0) as we know it today. Therefore... believing in atheism is like saying believing in mathematics... sorry I don't buy it in the literal sense. But I understand the cartoon's point. "They went to war because they were twisted little ___holes." Enough said.

[Yavin4]

91. "Science is going to exist whether you believe in it or not"

Neil deGrasse Tyson.

[PassingFair]

93. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

--Philip K. Dick

[cbdo2007]

94. Was at a concert recently where Athiests had shirts on that said, "Ask me a question"

....we asked them to please move so we could see the concert. They obliged and didn't disrupt the rest of the concert.

[cleanhippie]

110. We're they disrupting the concert before you asked them to move?

What does what they were wearing have to do with anything?

[chknltl]

98. Hitler was a jelly donut.

There, problem solved.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

107. No, he was from...

...Austria, not Berlin!

[LanternWaste]

108. Will Pitt + The Oatmeal = Flamewar?

Will Pitt + The Oatmeal = Flamewar?

Nice post, Hitler!!! Tip of the hat to you and your nefarious scheming to get GD into yet another flame-war.

Well played, sir... half the sub-literate idiots are taking this seriously, and the other half are taking the first half seriously.



What's next on the agenda? A Peanuts comic to subtly critique the death of Bib Laden?

[WilliamPitt]

117. Welcome to my life.

[Douglas Carpenter]

120. I thought you said you were a Catholic, Mr. Pitt - a DU Catholic at that

link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022509955

[WilliamPitt]

125. A SPECIAL NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO TURNED A THREAD ABOUT A CARTOON INTO A DOUCHEFESTIVAL

Yeah. You.