Being open on Thanksgiving is not a crime against Labor

[cthulu2016]

Low wages.
No benefits.
Forced to work "off the clock."
Cheating on overtime.
Denial of leave/absence for genuine emergencies.
Hazardous conditions.
Being scheduled 11-2 and then 5-8 for a nine hour workday with only six hours paid

These things are legitimate abuses of labor.

A store being open on a given holiday is not an abuse of labor.

It is amazing that in a nation with WALL-TO-FUCKING-WALL legitimate and profound problems for retail workers somebody, somewhere, managed to make the very real problems of retail workers seem trivial with this whole, "who is open on Thanks-fucking-giving?" trivia-fest.

I dare say that having Thanksgiving off (whether you want it off or not) is not what the revolution will be about.

On the other hand, if workers are denied time-and-a-half for working on Thanksgiving then that is serious.

[meow2u3]

1. Being forced to work on Thanksgiving is un-American

except if you're a cop, firefighter, or another kind of emergency first responder. No more, no less.

[DrDan]

19. bull

will you be watching a football game tomorrow? Doesn't that involve a WHOLE bunch of workers - players, concession, ushers, parking.

What about television - these technological marvels are not worker-free.

I would be willing to bet many folks that complain about someone having to work on Thanksgiving do so while watching a football game.

Gas stations and restaurants all require holiday workers.

What is special about working on a holiday? There are those that have to do so - and it goes FAR beyond the limited scope you stated.

[meow2u3]

21. Let me clear this up

I should have said that being forced to work RETAIL on Thanksgiving is un-American so greedy retailers can get rich while low-paid retail workers are pulled from their families.

[DrDan]

22. thank you - that I agree with.

[randome]

23. Ah, but those people working for our entertainment need to go out and buy things, too.

Last-minute dinners to prepare while rushing home from work, etc.

What about that sumptuous family get-together that would be all but ruined were it not for the last-minute 'rescue' of turkey stuffing that someone forgot to buy?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[NobodyHere]

40. So let me get this straight

Working retail on Thanksgiving is un-American but working a concession stand at a football game isn't?

[xmas74]

25. I worked in a gas station on Thanksgiving and Christmas, eve and day.

Never once received time-and-a-half. When I mentioned it my boss laughed and said he'd never heard of anyone working in a gas station getting it.

I asked around at other gas stations. No one had ever had it.

[DrDan]

26. I am a veteran - never once have I had Veteran's Day off as a holiday

always irritated me to no end to see 20-year old bank employees get a holiday as I went to work on Veteran's Day.

oh well . . . part of the work environment I chose. - I too could have, perhaps, worked in a bank.

[xmas74]

34. Unfortunately, that's how it goes.

Veterans Day isn't a holiday associated with family. Thanksgiving is. And the year before I took that job at the gas station, the station only opened early in the am (from five to ten) and then opened from six to ten on Thanksgiving and not at all on Christmas. The rules changed while I was employed there.

[MADem]

38. I was in an "unaccompanied" status for large parts of my career, far from home and family.

I used to catch the duty as a junior officer because "people with families" needed that day off, and the holiday (you name it--Thanksgiving, Christmas, Independence Day, whatever) was "more important to them." I resented this as I caught most of the damn holidays. When I became senior enough to tell the watch coordinator how to construct a watchbill, I insisted on stringent fairness!

[YankeyMCC]

2. maybe

In context that's true

It's still shity

[SheilaT]

3. There are jobs that are legitimately

seven days a week. Like being a cop, or a fire fighter or working in a hospital, which I do. And airlines.

But retail stores? Those making the decision that their store will be open are not going to be working that day themselves, I can guarantee it.

I long ago stopped shopping on the day after Thanksgiving, and I'm never going to shop on Thanksgiving Day itself.

[hedgehog]

42. ^^^^^^^THIS!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. i think all of it is a problem for labor. some are economic problems and others are work-family

conflict problems

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I never liked working on Thanksgiving. Screw the time-and-a-half.

The only reason to open for Thanksgiving is greed. That's all it's about.

[Gormy Cuss]

12. What time-and-a-half?

Most retail employees will be paid straight time for working on the holiday.
Moreover, the employer doesn't have to pay workers for a day off. Win win for the retailers!

[Whiskeytide]

6. The NFL should be up in arms...

... the most about this. Stores open during a prime time game????? WTF??

[TBF]

13. And the NFL has players as well -

though for some reason folks like to bash the players even though the owners make far more.

[Voice for Peace]

7. Very good points but the "open on Thanksgiving" brings attention to the other issues

at least I think it does, for many people.
The crappy wages, the crappy work conditions.s

[Cleita]

8. It's to remind us that greed has no limits of decency.

Used to be that only essential services, hospitals, police, fire departments etc. operated on Thanksgiving. Mostly the workers were paid time and a half or even double time for working. Usually, they volunteered and if not, it was the workers with the least seniority who were scheduled. Maybe there weren't laws but there were rules that were followed by the business community which in those days recognized that most people including the managers wanted to be home with their families.

Then greed started to seep in first with football games being played on Thanksgiving. Well those people were few and most got the day off and the rest were well paid, except the stadium workers but who cared about them and they got to be at game!

Now it's just pure greed and nobody benefits except Wall Street. If shoppers don't boycott this new "tradition" next there just won't be any holiday at all or days off or a limit on the number of hours one must work to keep their job in the future. We are losing all the labor rights we gained in the twentieth century and going back to the days of labor abuses of the industrial revolution that Dickens wrote about so eloquently.

[ryan_cats]

9. Being forced to work on Thanksgiving sucks. I've been there.

Being forced to work on Thanksgiving sucks. I've been there. A lot of times people will volunteer to get overtime pay but I've had to cover for people before and never received anything extra.

Now, I won't be the cause of having someone working on a holiday. Unless there's an emergency, I won't shop on a holiday.

It's kind of weird, what is so important that you would go out shopping on a holiday, are the prices so low that it's luring people out or do people just like the so called deals?

[Lex]

10. "a crime against labor?" Maybe not, but it sucks and is another insult to labor. nt

[leftstreet]

11. Why aren't people outraged that nurses work on holidays?

Or paramedics or cops?

[Gormy Cuss]

16. Gee, I wonder why that is.

There must be a reason why those jobs are different from working at Target or in a restaurant.

[Lex]

28. Haha, I know, right?

Geez.

[leftstreet]

29. So it's not really about family, it's about $$?

Then why aren't the same people outraged every single day that retail workers make such shitty wages?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

32. A lot of people are......

What a dumb question.

[leftstreet]

35. Where is the outrage over paramedics working Thxgiving?

This is about money and class, not the passive aggressive pretense of 'traditions' or 'family'

If retail workers made $25 an hour, you'd find no one on DU posturing over whether or not they should work holidays



These threads go hand and hand with Give to the Food Banks1!!!!1 threads. But very few threads about raising wages or securing safety nets

[ForgoTheConsequence]

36. You're right.

It is about class and exploitation, and this is just another kick in the ass to service workers.

There are tons of threads on this board about raising the minimum wage and there were tons a threads supporting Walmart and other retail workers on strike. You see what you want to see I guess.


But this whole "you didn't care about that, so you can't care about this" argument is nonsense.

[SheilaT]

45. Maybe, just maybe, people aren't outraged

over paramedics or nurses or firemen or cops working on Thanksgiving because we all clearly understand that those are jobs that must be worked on a 24/7 basis. Including weekends and holidays. Retail establishments are quite different. I am old enough to recall when retail stores closed around 5 or 6pm, maybe had one late night a week until 7 or 8pm, and were not open on Sundays. It certainly is very convenient that they stay open later and are open Saturday AND Sunday, and most holidays. But Thanksgiving is our one major secular holiday. It's considered to be a family day.

Maybe all those who hate getting together with family on Thanksgiving could instead get retail jobs and work that day.

[etherealtruth]

18. When I worked as a nurse ....

.. nurses were paid significantly more than minimum wage .... paid a holiday rate (1.5 to 2x normal hourly rate), given a "comp day" for working the holiday and had the knowledge that they were working for something other than increased profits. Nurses, cops, firefighters .... enter their professions understanding that their field is 24/7/365.

A typical retail worker earns minimum wage or slightly more, they may or may not receive a holiday rate of pay, there is no such thing as a "comp" day ... they know they are working for increased profits and little or nothing more

[Cleita]

37. +1000 n/t

[Major Hogwash]

53. It's a public relations problem for those stores now, though.

Because I listened to one economist yesterday that said those stores that used to close on Thanksgiving, but have decided to be open this year aren't going to make much profit from being open for just that one day of the year.

When these CEO's decided to open their stores this year, they turned their backs on tradition, and in doing so, have lowered their image in some people's minds.

Although it may be a response to demand, and trying to compete with their competitors, what they have proven over the last dozen or so years is that by having huge discounts for their day-after-Thanksgiving sales is that those stores were charging too much for their products for the other 11 months of the year, all along.

[etherealtruth]

14. Not a crime--- it is an exploitation of labor

... and can be added to your list.

In isolation being forced to work Thanksgiving is not a horror ... it is further illustration of the American worker

[TBF]

15. I actually agree -

and it's not just because I hate this holiday (celebrating killing off our indigenous population with a big feast - way to go) ...

I worked solid through the 1990s as a paralegal. Large firm, decent salary, great benefits. The firms I worked at either paid your wages based on 35-40 hours/week. The one that considered 35 full time would pay you straight time until 40 and then time and a half after that.

One firm in particular I stayed at longer because it was time and a half for O/T, double time on weekends, triple time on holidays. And this would be on salaries anywhere from $20K-$60K at that time.

That can make it worth your while.

Just a tip for any retailer - pay your employees decently and you might see more willingness. At least some of the folks will want extra double or triple time even if others would far prefer the time off with their families. However, if you're paying them $8/hr don't be surprised if they don't show up.

[Blaukraut]

17. Stores should be closed on holidays. Period.

Even if the retailer pays overtime, in order to man the establishment, there will inevitably be some folks who will be forced to work on that day. It's enough that stores are open on Sundays and late into the evenings. There is no possible reason anyone would need to go shopping on a holiday other than boredom.

[randome]

20. There are plenty of people who don't celebrate Thanksgiving and other holidays.

They should simply sit at home and watch TV?

There are enough people suffering from 'boredom' that one retailer sees an opportunity to make some cash. Then other retailers see the same and eventually everyone is open all the time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Blaukraut]

27. What's wrong with sitting at home and watching TV, or going for a walk?

Or spend time with friends and family? So what if they don't celebrate any given holiday. We don't celebrate Christmas, but we manage not to keel over from boredom on that day. Just because retailers are greedy doesn't mean they should be enabled.

[kcr]

41. There are plenty of people who have no family, and no desire to travel

and wouldn't mind never taking any time off! Why not allow companies to offer no vacation and days off? Let them offer the opportuity to work 12 shifts 365 days a year? Then people like that can choose to work for them? No one will ever be forced to not take vacation or days off. Sure... I'm sure they'd love the opportunity to wear diapers, too, so they don't have to take bathroom breaks. Some employees would be fine with that. They'd tolerate it, no problem.

[randome]

43. No one said anything about being forced to work more than 40 hours a week.

And anyone who really wants to work more often does. When I was first learning programming -a long, long time ago- I couldn't stop thinking about it, couldn't stop experimenting. I'm glad that time is past.

I was just pointing out that there are plenty of people who DO want stores to be open and this means at least some retailers will accommodate them.

It would be nice if everyone thought the same of Thanksgiving -that it's a sacred day- but they don't.

OTOH, I would have no problem with a state-wide law mandating all retail stores to be closed on Thanksgiving.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[kcr]

44. But that's my point. The fact that not everyone cares about Thanksgiving doesn't matter.

The fact that there are people that don't care about Thanksgiving doesn't give corporations leave to exploit that.

[msongs]

24. "holidays" are only different because some people choose to make them so, not everyone nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

30. Anti-worker thread #125

Retail workers are treated like shit in this country and working on Thanksgiving is just another part of a long tradition of shit.


Any excuse to not to feel guilty about your own perverted addictions to consuming.

[BainsBane]

47. What about the "choice" of workers

Oh, right. That's only an excuse when it comes to ignoring the rights of women in porn.

Cognitive dissonance #467,896

[ForgoTheConsequence]

50. Do you always stalk people?

It's a little creepy.

[TeeYiYi]

31. There are a few restaurants that are always open on Thanksgiving...

Cracker Barrel, Golden Corral, Boston Market, Denny's to name a few. Not everyone has the ability to cook a turkey at home. Lots of elderly people depend on these restaurants. Families too.

I hope the workers are being fairly compensated but they can't be surprised if they're being asked to work on Thanksgiving.

I have a friend who works as a server at one of the Marriot hotel restaurants. She makes some of her best tips on the holidays.

TYY

[Dreamer Tatum]

33. I don't know where this Thanksgiving fundamentalism came from

but if people want to work on Thanksgiving, fucking let them.

Odd how nothing is sacred on DU, except, suddenly, Thanksgiving.

[Cleita]

48. What if they are forced to work to make their employers money?

Money they won't share in? Is that wanting to work in your opinion?

[Dreamer Tatum]

49. What if they get overtime and love it?

Until one of us is 100% right, we should live and let live.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

51. Thanksgiving used to be an option.

If you wanted to come in and work you could. It was a day to get stuff in order and you could sign up for extra hours. Now it's mandatory, see the difference?

[Dreamer Tatum]

55. No it isn't "mandatory"

Jesus Christ, proof by anecdote is annoying.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

56. What?

I've worked retail for the past 10 years off and on. When you're told you can't request a day off, its MANDATORY.

[Dreamer Tatum]

57. Is it mandatory for everyone? No.

And most businesses are closed in any case. This is a stupid argument, in my opinion. If you don't want to work on Thanksgiving, then find another job.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

58. I'm talking about retail.

"find another job" how liberal and progressive of you. Want to make more money? Why not just work a job that pays more!! Maybe I should just borrow 25 grand from my parents, huh Mitt?



Take that Paul Ryan Ayn Rand bullshit elsewhere. I'm tired of this anti-worker shit from so called "democrats". Find another job? How about find another party!

[Kingofalldems]

60. You can't be serious.

But I think you are. Interesting.

[kcr]

39. It is exploitation. It is no better than any of the other things you list.

Don't pat yourself on the back there for dismissing it because it "isn't a crime"

[jayfish]

46. It May Not Be A "Crime" Against Labor,

but it is exploitation of the poor. ...a perfect example of the two Americas. The middle and upper classes get the day off with pay. If they do have to work they usually receive enhanced compensation for the hours worked or a day off later, in-lieu of the Holiday. The poor get to wait on them hand and foot then come back tomorrow and do it again. America, where only the rich deserve holidays.

[elleng]

52. Good point and

it should be noted that in work-places with unions, off/on for holidays is one of the negotiated issues.

[Starry Messenger]

54. In a year when corporations are posting record profits, it does seem like an extra jab in the ass.

Why does everything have to be for the almighty dollar?

[nilesobek]

59. With respect to tradition and

family gatherings, I'm just not celebrating this year. I have to work at a local convenience store. My kids are grown and its nice to be able to fill in for people who have young children and more frequent family gatherings. I don't think there is any holy sanctity in Thanksgiving in its present form. Antibiotic oozing fowl stuffed into my face is not my way of thanking God. But lets give each other a much deserved break, for those who are traditional and for ourselves.