Yep... They Killed Him...

[WillyT]

JFK assassination: CIA and New York Times are still lying to us

Link: http://www.salon.com/2013/11/06/the_jfk_assassination_we_still_dont_know_what_happened/


RFK Jr: "The fragility of (JFK's) control over the military" Ellsberg: "Virtually a coup atmosphere"

Link: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/john-f-kennedys-vision-of-peace-20131120

[WillyT]

1. And Yeah... It Does Matter... 50 Years Later...

[billhicks76]

67. Mary Pinchot Meyer

Of course they did it and those who deny it can live in that denial if it makes them feel better. They also murdered Mary Pinchot Meyer and James Angleton burned her diary.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. No, they didn't

and no, it doesn't.

[WillyT]

3. Says You...

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. Says all the evidence.

Last edited Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Oswald's rifle. That he bought and had shipped to his post office box. His handwriting is on the order form. His handwriting is on the money order. His prints are on the rifle. The recovered shell casings match that rifle. Recovered bullet and fragments match that rifle. There is Oswald's revolver. That was in his possession when he was arrested. That was used to kill JD Tippit. Recovered bullet and shell casings match that revolver. Multiple separate independent analyses of the forensic evidence have concluded that the bullets that struck Kennedy and Connally came from behind. From a trajectory that's consistent with their being fired by Lee Oswald, from that sixth-floor window. We know they were fired by Lee Oswald from that sixth-floor window because the recovered bullet and fragments match his rifle. The forensic evidence of autopsy photos and X-rays is conclusive in showing that the shots came from behind. Not from in front. Not from the side. There are witnesses who saw a man fitting Oswald's description in that window, with a rifle. There are witnesses who saw Oswald approach Tippit. Who saw him fleeing the scene. His jacket was found discarded along the escape route. There is all of this, which leads to the conclusion that Oswald killed Kennedy and wounded Connally, that Oswald killed Tippit.

So...if "they" did it, where'd all that evidence come from? Was Oswald part of the plot? How? What evidence is there?

[WinkyDink]

22. Gulf of Tonkin. Iraq's WMD's. NSA.

http://www.mydfz.com/Paxton/lyrics/wdylis.htm

[stopbush]

26. You mean those are the things that killed JFK?

[WinkyDink]

29. No. I mean those are only SOME lies only fools would claim our govt would never tell.

[stopbush]

41. So, you're a closed-minded CT denier.

Who's to say the Gulf of Tonkin or Iraq WMDs or the NSA weren't in on killing JFK? Do you only believe the standard stories being fed to us by the usual CT guys?

[sabrina 1]

80. So you're a Denier who refuses to look at the evidence that is continuing to emerge with each

passing year?

What was Oswald's motive for killing Kennedy?

[stopbush]

121. Would that include the evidence that JFK was shot by his limo driver?

[lastlib]

152. ...or the Secret Service guy with the AR-15?

[stopbush]

154. Yep. IOKALAIABOTBWASJFK.

It's OK - as long as it's anybody but Oswald, the bastard who actually shot JFK.

[11 Bravo]

118. And every fucking one of those lies has been exposed. But one of the single most cataclysmic ...

events in American history, the telling of which you claim to be a lie, has somehow remained hidden.
What are the chances?

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Kennedy's assassination.

[WinkyDink]

30. See above comment. Gullibility isn't only for those on one side.

[grahamhgreen]

85. It does. It part of the pattern and practice of the wacko right.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

32. You might listen to Guns and Butter on KPFA. It played today and will be available for 2 weeks

here: http://www.kpfa.org/guns-and-butter
Go find todays show on the assassination. There was lots of documentation on several witnesses seeing Oswald in the cafeteria and there are pictures of him buying a coke on the ground floor showing he couldn't have been on the sixth floor when the shooting happened. The show said witnesses reported two men killed Tippit, and he may have taken the real killers from the scene and was killed so he couldn't report what he had done.

There was evidence of several shots being fired from recordings, but believe what you want if you must and ignore the evidence the back of his head was blown out from a shot from the front.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. Nope.

No-one saw Oswald in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination. There are no pictures of him buying a Coke on the ground floor. There are more witnesses who said ONE man killed Tippit, and multiple witnesses picked Oswald out of a lineup, and Oswald's jacket was found on the escape route he took, and Oswald HAD THE GUN THAT KILLED TIPPIT. Dealey Plaza has highrise buildings on multiple sides. The echoes make it very difficult to determine the location of shots. 81% of the witnesses in Dealey Plaza agreed that there were THREE shots. Not four, not five, three. And a majority heard them coming from the TSBD. Oswald was SEEN IN THE WINDOW WITH THE RIFLE. None of what you've said is evidence at all. It's fantasy that's been extensively and repeatedly debunked.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

43. You haven't had time to listen to an hour show. You don't care to hear what may change your mind.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. I've heard it all before.

I used to believe some of it. Then I found out that the facts and actual evidence don't square with the fantasy stories.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

49. The "Fantasy Story" is that Oswald did it.....

[Spider Jerusalem]

51. Where's the evidence?

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

54. Listen to the Guns and Butter show and hear it all yourself, I'm done responding to you.

[KansDem]

130. True...

Oswald acting alone is the "Fantasy Story"--

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

136. Thanks for that... nt

[alato]

93. noone saw him in the window either

[Spider Jerusalem]

99. Witness saw a man with a rifle and gave a description that fit Oswald.

Which went out over police radio just after the shooting.

[7962]

38. The easy answer is "the CIA manipulated the evidence". Thats all anyone who disagrees will say.

Anytime something seems air tight, thats what you'll hear. See, that removes the proof. Zapruder film? Altered. Fragments? Planted. Body? removed to washington. Witnesses? Plants. Etc Etc.
Just like 9/11

[JDPriestly]

114. Let's assume that Oswald killed Kennedy. It's been 50 years, and they have established

the identity of the shooter. So why haven't they in 50 years prepared all the evidence so that the American people can see it?

That's what I don't understand. There are supposedly 1500 documents to be released. Most of the people who were over 30 in 1963 are 80 and older. I was 20 that year, and I am 70. If you were under 20, you remember your reaction, but you really didn't understand the situation that well.

Why don't they just release everything, all the information they have, all the evidence, all the documents? A bill was passed in 1992 that required them to release all the documents, etc. They need to do that and put the matter to rest.

What do they have to lose? It looks like they are covering something up. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but they should release all the information. Why the secrecy about something that happened 50 years ago?

[7962]

117. The original story Ive heard was that the family didnt want it released for 75 yrs i think

Supposedly to protect people involved with the investigation. Or maybe they foresaw whats happening right now with the Newtown calls/photos. And remember the same push to release pictures of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy? This would be an absolute feeding frenzy! Of course most has been released, but the CIA files (of course) remain closed.

[JDPriestly]

122. All of the documents should be available.

Robert Kennedy, Jr. has made public statements about his questions about what happened. The only family member of the JFK immediate family of four is Caroline. I doubt that the family would mind if the documents were released, and besides the family should not have a say in whether the public documents are released on this very public matter of such great historical importance.

The government invites questions and doubts about the Warren Commission Report by its failure to release all the documents.

[heaven05]

46. your evidence sucks

all based on the lies that you need spoon fed to you so can stay inside your bubble. Sad. Yeah it does stil count 50 years later and he was killed maybe by one man, doubtful, but on the orders of those more powerful than the POTUS. Guess what? They're still here running things. Wake up, smell the sh..! Get out your bubble, you'll suffocate in there.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. It's all been repeatedly confirmed by several investigations.

You can continue to believe that JFK was killed by aliens acting on the orders of the Illuminati if you want to, though.

[heaven05]

55. I don't care if there were 100 investigations!!!!

Investigations can be skewed toward any conclusion needed. Wake up!!!!

[ballabosh]

100. So what you are saying

is there can be no investigation and no evidence that will convince you that Oswald acted alone.

I thought you truth seekers were all about being open minded.

[heaven05]

120. Well to still be seeking truth

Last edited Fri Nov 29, 2013, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

would mean that my mind is still open to what truth is. Not, "oh boy, the government said it's true based on their evidence. I'm convinced". I'm just not that easy. A coup happened THAT day and, yes, you're right, NOTHING will EVER convince me oswald acted alone. Period. You can think what you please.

[ballabosh]

124. So your mind is closed

Mine is open. Present me with one concrete piece of evidence of a consipiracy, or Oswald didn't do it or whatever. I will change my mind in a second when you can do that.

[heaven05]

126. My mind is made up.

I don't care if your conclusions of the coup that day are diametrically opposed to mine. I don't care. I know what I've learned over 50 years and that's it. Good luck and goodbye. My mind is far more open than some concerning this OP and assumed to be closed by others. I don't care.

[KansDem]

128. Does that include the HSCA investigation?

Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives

[Spider Jerusalem]

140. Yep

The HSCA investigation confirmed every major finding of the Warren Commission. Their supposed "evidence" of conspiracy turned out to be no evidence at all because the recording came from a motorcycle that wasn't in Dealey Plaza and the "impulses" came too late to be shots. See here: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm

And here: http://www.thekennedyhalfcentury.com/pdf/Kennedy-Half-Century-Audio-Research.pdf

And here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy

[heaven05]

135. thank you for a reflection of how you deal with a different opinion

I never said anything about aliens or the illuminati. Your attempt at a put down is really pathetic. You intellect is suspect as is your adherence to evidence proven to be suspect, to say the least. Have a good life inside your bubble.

[Spider Jerusalem]

143. Except this isn't a matter of "opinion".

It doesn't matter what your opinion is. Do you have any facts to support that opinion? Any evidence? Because all of the facts and all of the evidence lead to the conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy. If you have any actual evidence that says otherwise, what is it? Forensics: the shots came from behind. Ballistics: they came from Oswald's rifle. No evidence of other shots. No evidence of other shooters. Lots of speculation about meaningless coincidence that doesn't add up to anything.

[heaven05]

138. you still haven't answered kansasdem

[Thirties Child]

131. "those more powerful than the POTUS. Guess what? They're still here running things."

Absolutely true. And that's what makes it so horrifiying. And so frightening. My gut clinched when I read that sentence. I was 28 in 1963, have always wondered who was behind it. Mr. Thirties covered the MLK story, from the assassination, though the funeral, through the search, trial, etc. of James Earl Ray. He's always believed that was a planned murder. The realization that they were running things then, and "they're still running things" ties it all together.

[sabrina 1]

78. Why did Oswald do it? What was his motive?

[Spider Jerusalem]

86. Irrelevant.

Proof of motive isn't required to prove a crime; all the evidence says "it was Oswald". His motive? He was a pro-Castro, self-proclaimed Marxist. Kennedy was very much anti-Castro, and Oswald would have been aware of that. Marina Oswald testified to the Warren Commission and later to the HSCA that Oswald had a strong antipathy toward John Connally after Connally, as Secretary of the Navy, refused to change his discharge to honorable. There are multiple possible motives, which we can't know, because Oswald is dead and can't tell us. But it's irrelevant, because the evidence all says he did it.

[sabrina 1]

88. Yes, he's dead. Another amazing coincidence, and no he can't tell us. Maybe that's why he's dead.

[sabrina 1]

77. Why did Oswald deny that he killed the president?

[Spider Jerusalem]

82. Most murder suspects deny they did it.

The evidence against him was such that he would have been convicted at trial had he lived. Whether he confessed in the two days he was in police custody is neither here nor there and isn't any kind of proof of innocence.

[KansDem]

129. And what was Ruby's reason to kill him?

[Archae]

4. Yeah, "they" did.

"The enemy."

A nameless, faceless somebody, concocted out of wild rumors and lies, who is "They."

Nothing new about this method.

"The Jews."
"The Illuminati"
"The BFEE"
"The Communists"
"The Socialists"
"The Liberals"
"The New World Order"

[WillyT]

7. You Got A Problem With THIS ??? - Let It ALL Come Out... What's The Worry ???

The assassination of President Kennedy and its subsequent coverup was a triumph for the rapidly growing U.S. national security state. Fifty years later, that surveillance colossus increasingly treats the American people as if we’re enemies of the state. We can begin to take control of our future by finally demanding ownership of our past.

From: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/john-f-kennedys-vision-of-peace-20131120

C'Mon man... let it all come out.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. well his nephew is no authority on anything, you know, not like that stellar human Arlen Specter

and his preposterous magic bullet theory, concocted explicitly to fill in the glaring gaps in the lone gunman scenario.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. He's not, actually, an authority on anything.

Least of all vaccine safety: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/01/16/salon-retracts-robert-kennedys-deadly-immunity/

[WillyT]

14. Damn... I Am So Sorry... It Must Be Tough.. When Families Don't Communicate...

Must be especially tough around Thanksgiving.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. well yes he is wrong about that.

So I guess you do have a point. Wrong about A, therefore wrong about B.

I need to remember that for future arguments.

[AlbertCat]

31. Wrong about A, therefore wrong about B.

It's not that simple.

WHAT he is wrong about matters. Vaccine conspiracy theories are just as loopy as JFK conspiracy theories. They are on the same wavelength.

[heaven05]

56. And neither are you

as evidenced by your posts on JFK.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. Oh, sorry, you're right.

I'd clearly be more qualified to have an opinion if I didn't actually know anything about the facts and evidence of the case.

[heaven05]

61. You don't know anything

but the party line. So it's just an opinion that shouldn't mean anything to people who are awake and not stuck in the 'official' bubble. I laugh at your evidence, the warren commission evidence and any other party line evidence.. Wake up!!!!! geez.

[Spider Jerusalem]

68. Again...where's the evidence?

Not coincidences with lots of "isn't it suspicious", not "these people claim this 30 years after the fact", not "but the CIA had a file on Oswald and Jack Ruby had Mafia connections", actual evidence that any of these assertions are true?

[heaven05]

70. oh boy!!!

[Spider Jerusalem]

74. Oh, that's right, the awesomely powerful CIA kept it covered up.

Even though they couldn't cover up their operation to depose Mossadegh in Iran or Operation Northwoods or Operation Mongoose or MK-ULTRA or their involvement in the assassinations of Patrice Lumumba and Rafael Trujillo and Ngo Dinh Diem. They can't cover up all of that, yet they manage to keep their killing a US president a secret. Because they're clearly so amazing at coverups. (Except, you know, for all that other stuff.)

[ballabosh]

103. Scientific evidence

isn't opinion.

[heaven05]

119. ????

Your 'scientific' evidence was, is, not irrefutable. Period.

[ballabosh]

123. Present it

You've yet to do so.

[heaven05]

125. the counter evidence to the one shooter scenario

has been presented countless times in 50 years. Bout time you woke up. I believe the evidence of a coup and I won't change. You're welcome to believe whatever you desire. Your opinion is not my problem. Good luck and goodbye.

[stopbush]

33. Arlen Specter isn't the person who came up with the single bullet theory.

It was Melvin Eisenberg.

[WinkyDink]

25. Are you equating venomous lies about Jews ("Protocols of Zion") with the facts of Communist

mass murders?

Are you attempting to deny that even GHWB used the term "New World Order"?

Are you attempting to deny that the Bush Family (BFEE) is a pack of criminals who were and are friends and business partners with both the bin Laden and Hinckley families? The descendants of Nazi colleague Prescott Bush are not a "faceless" anything.

[7962]

50. And Kennedy's dad was a Nazi sympathizer too! So that ties it all up nicely doesnt it?

[longship]

6. You bastards! ;-)

BTW, Happy Thanksgiving to everybody.

[WillyT]

8. Sorry... Not Too Clever...Or Funny...

[longship]

9. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

[whatchamacallit]

13. WillyT, you ever get the impression

there's a group of people on this board whose sole purpose is to see to it that nothing official is ever questioned? Because I sure do.

[FSogol]

16. Yup, We're all part of the conspiracy too!

Last edited Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:01 AM - Edit history (1)

[whatchamacallit]

19. Not part of any particular conspiracy

more part of a mindset that has a Pavlovian response to anything that challenges the status quo.

[AlbertCat]

37. a Pavlovian response to anything that challenges the status quo.

Unlike a Pavlovian response to anything that isn't a conspiracy.... just like in that movie.....

Life is not a Hollywood thriller.

[zeemike]

44. Exactly right.

It scares them to think the world they believe in is not what they have believed it to be...and so they must shut it up.

[The Midway Rebel]

110. You need to keep up.

Conspiracy theory IS the status quo. Especially at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024013605

[heaven05]

52. You are wrong

Period. There is an active conspiracy to take your so called freedom. Deny it to your peril. And on November 22, 1963 there was a coup against the POTUS. It was successful and Bush 2000 proved it. Wake up, get out your bubble and smell the sh..! SAD,indeed.

[WillyT]

18. Oh Yeah... A Looooooong Time Ago...

[WillyT]

59. I Wouldn't Say That Out Loud On An Internet Message Board... But Yeah...

[alato]

96. yes

[Logical]

64. I agree, not as funny as your OP. n-t

[snot]

10. Great articles, thanks – K&R'd.

[MicaelS]

17. Who the hell is They?

[BlueStreak]

127. Start with the "What". You get that right, and the "they" becomes a lot more clear.

There aren't really a lot of choices. From the inside of government to the outside, you have this spectrum.

A) A carefully managed plat ordered and administered by the hierarchy of the security apparatus, possibly reporting directly to Johnson. This is doubtful because it would be hard to contain leaks and the execution was sloppier than one would expect from the mainline CIA organization.

B) A rag-tag collection of CIA operatives as described by Hunt, using assets wherever they could get them, including calling in chits from the mob. This seems to fit the available facts rather well, and would account for the sloppy execution, while still forcing the mainstream apparatus to pull the wagons into a circle for a full-blown cover-up.

C) The mob. Other than Ruby's role, not a lot of evidence for this. Normally when the mob does a hit, they just do the hit and don't try to include a bunch of head-fakes as we have seen in this operation. This operation was way too cute to be a simple mob hit, although the CIA definitely could have called upon colleagues in the mob to snuff Oswald before he could talk much.

D) Castro or the Soviet Union. Not much evidence of this. There's a lot more evidence that the CIA tried to use "The big event" as a way of forcing Johnson to ramp up the conflict with Cuba.

[whistler162]

146. The super secret cabal that no one

knows about but has existed for a thousand years and caused all the great disasters.

[SidDithers]

20. They sure did...

Sid

[WillyT]

27. Well Damn Man...

That's got to be the luckiest strike of Luck in the universe.

The mafia wanted him dead.

The Steel Indrustry woudn't have objected.

The CIA wanted him dead.

The FBI wanted him dead.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted him dead.

Etc... etc... etc...

[stopbush]

35. Actually, according to my count of the CT theories, everybody in the world wanted JFK dead.

[Cali_Democrat]

39. Even my mom

[heaven05]

58. yeah but you can't count

must have had problems with math.

[zeemike]

53. And many in the South wanted him dead.

I had a friend that was at Florida State U in an assembly when they announced that JFK had been shot in Dallas...she said the whole student body stood up and cheered.

And I guy I knew said "they finally killed that N...er loving son of a bitch"
Only those that are old enough know that he was hated by many as much as Obama is...and for the same reasons.

And thanks WillyT for being brave enough to keep saying it...and have a good turkey day.

[juajen]

90. This is true! I was there, lived in the South and know that

the hatred for this man knew no bounds. It is sugarcoated today. Yes, I do believe there was a conspiracy, and many in the South agreed then, and still do. Why the Hell won't they release everything on this assassination? This just feeds the conspiracy theory. Even when they release it, a hell of a lot of it will be redacted, that is, if they ever release it. I remember the promise that in 50 years we would know all. Bullshit!

[ReRe]

66. Add Fred Koch's John Birch Society to your list...

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Could you be a little more specific?

[KurtNYC]

148. in the linked articles "they" is the CIA/mafia coalition that was going to kill Castro --

Kennedy dumps Dulles, then closes Pontchartrain in August of 1963. They kill him three months later.

[randome]

23. Yeah, yeah, happy Thanksgiving to you, too!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[stopbush]

24. Yawn....

[WillyT]

34. I Hope You're Gonna Be Ok...

[moondust]

40. Or not.

I think it's doubtful that anybody serious about pulling off one of the biggest conspiracies in history would enlist the help of somebody as insecure and flaky as Lee Harvey Oswald, knowing he'd be inclined to tell everybody he knew or met on the street about it in a vain attempt to attract attention. His wife or a stranger might take him seriously and tell the police about his big plan. No, for a job like that you'd want somebody very professional and discreet, capable of slipping away into the streets without being identified.

Oswald was an attention-seeking nobody that nobody paid attention to. November 22 rolled around and a big-time attention-getting opportunity knocked. In an instant Oswald became the center of the known universe with TV cameras and everything. At last he was somebody.

[DeSwiss]

42. K&R

"Virtually A coup atmosphere"

- /fixed

[Ian_rd]

47. Yes they did! All three of them!

Lee, Harvey, and Oswald! All in on it! Wake up, sheeple!

[GoneOffShore]

60. You win the thread! And the Internets!

Beautiful response to recurring fantasies.

Thank you.

[Ian_rd]

116. Hahaha

Why, thank you

[duffyduff]

62. It was HE who killed THEM. Period.

David Talbot is a certified whacko on this issue. Either that or a cynic who is doing this for money.

His dad Lyle must be spinning in his grave to have sired somebody like this.

[MrMickeysMom]

71. Saw and heard him individually and with panel at Duquesne University conference...

It's is a very ignorant statement to insist someone is a whacko on "this issue". I'd read up...

I highly recommend the books listed in the end of this article, especially the James Douglas

[Logical]

63. LOL, you are almost a parody of the CTs t this point. n-t

[WillyT]

75. Care To Widen Your Interpretation ???

[heaven05]

65. You have to remember

this generation of sheeple that are answering in the negative to your post, are not, have not and will not think for themselves. They take the party line, hook, line and sinker and CANNOT stand for any objections. CT's are there because people just aren't all stupid. Keep up the good work, I'm sure one day the truth will slip out somehow, although it probably will slip past some of our 'critical' thinkers on this board.

[JazzQuipster]

81. As a 'critical thinker,' maybe you can help me understand...

…WHO was responsible. What is the compelling evidence that points to someone other than Oswald as the killer of Kennedy? Who did it and why? I would really like to hear it.

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Vaguely accurate almost.

You mention the military as support, but the CIA is not the military.

But in the vein of a blind squirrel finding a nut, Oswald WAS a Marine...

[blkmusclmachine]

72. CIA's Operation Northwoods is a extremely important part of the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

[MrMickeysMom]

73. K&R, WillyT

Another archive of any of these authors being interviewed as at : http://blackopradio.com

[JazzQuipster]

76. Yep… WHO Killed Him?

it's been 50 long years and yet the large swathe of the population who are convinced that there was a conspiracy to kill the president can't even settle on WHO was responsible. Was it the Mafia, Cuba, Cuban expats, the CIA, Texas oilmen, Russia, or the Boogey Man? What gets me is that the conspiracy theorists completely ignore the mountain of evidence against Lee Harvey Oswald. He was on the scene. His guns were used to kill Kennedy and Tippet. He fled the scene…left his job, in fact, after the deed was done. Everything points to Oswald's guilt. Why do conspiracy theorists completely dismiss all of the evidence AGAINST Oswald?

[longship]

84. Because they KNOW it was CIA/KGB/CCCP/Cuba/FBI/LBJ/Allen Dulles/Castro/Secret Service/Mafia/Big Foot

[WillyT]

91. And Who Would Be Better Equipped To Hide It, Than The MIC... Bigfoot ???

It's not like the PTA was gonna launch an investigation.

[Jetboy]

79. I was on the fence and almost convinced that LHO acted alone without any help

until reading DU over the past week or so. Those who insist that LHO had no help 'doth protest too much' for my taste.

[Bolo Boffin]

95. How exactly do the protestations of anyone in 2013

enter into evidence of a crime committed in 1963?

[Jetboy]

101. The evidence alone put me on the fence. The bullying tone taken by those who insist there was no

conspiracy pushed me off it. It is not a cut and dried case and the ridicule won't make it so.

[Bolo Boffin]

104. If you don't see bullying tones and ridicule from both sides of this issue

don't pretend you're being impartial about the evidence. You're not.

[Jetboy]

108. I have seen bullying on both sides but the vast majority is from the

LHO acted alone crowd IMO. It is comforting to know that every time I post about this matter, one of you will come running to challenge me. But you don't protest too much.

I know one thing- that none of us really know. Insisting otherwise has only made me hop off the fence and dig in my heels.

[Bolo Boffin]

111. But it's the quality of the conspiracy theorists' bullying and slander that you should note.

For example, my post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4102206

Five replies in, someone's implying I'm a Nazi.

[Jetboy]

112. You are incorrect. Look again at who that poster was responding to-

it wasn't you. (I tried to google MIC to understand better what that guy was talking about but I could not find an answer.)

I am not calling you or anyone else a Nazi but in my opinion, bullying was a catalyst for the Nazis to take power in Germany. I feel that bullying is a pretty good sign of being wrong.

[Bolo Boffin]

115. I see I'm dealing with a biased judge when speaking to you.

That poster is responding to another poster calling me equally insulting things. And now you're happy to join in with the implications. Goodbye.

[wildbilln864]

134. funny the things you ....

and some others venture out of the dungeon to defend.

[Octafish]

137. Military Industrial Complex

Term coined by President Eisenhower in his farewell address.

[Jetboy]

139. Thank you Octafish. Google had a lot of info on microphones and other MIC acronyms but not Military

Industrial Complex. I actually figured it out later after I saw it used in context a few times.

I appreciate all of the information that you provide here.

[ReRe]

83. Thanks for the links, WillyT

They = TPTB. If not, why did LBJ appoint Allen Dulles to the Commission? TPTB killed him because they learned that he was a courageous peacemaker. And before the decade was up, two other peacemakers (RFK and MLK, Jr) were also killed. It was a decade of Hell, topped off with the VietNam War. They ripped the heart right out of America, leaving everyone numb. I know this, because I lived through it. It was a coup, period.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

87. In reading the second link: We still have those old Cold War idiots.

[BlueStreak]

89. They aren't idiots. There is a whole lot of profit in the perma-war machine

And if a President stood up to them today 50 years later, well, let's just say that every President in the last 50 years heard the message loud and clear.

For those who wonder why Obama, normally a fairly progressive politician, pees his pants protecting the trillion dollar Pentagon.CIA/NSA budget, and why he takes such a vocal stance in favor of the security apparatus in the face of whistle-blowers exposing the most egregious wrong-doing, Obama wants to see his daughters grow up.

So Obama's deal with the devil is, "You let me end these horrendously damaging wars, and I'll let you keep that vast budget, and whatever the spy agencies do I don't want to know about."

[ailsagirl]

92. Damn right they did

[Bolo Boffin]

94. Nope. n/t

[The Midway Rebel]

97. Kicking.

For the Paranoid Style is exhibits.

http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/

I think Hofstadter was in Dallas too.

[WillyT]

98. Thanks... Appreciate It !!!

[sagat]

102. When did GD become Creative Speculation?

[WillyT]

106. Hey Newbie... Glad You're Here.. Read The Damned Articles..

[Drunken Irishman]

105. Who? LBJ?

[SidDithers]

107. ...

Sid

[Warren DeMontague]

109. "After I come back from Texas, that's going to change."

"There's no reason for us to lose another man over there. Vietnam is not worth another American life."

[Riftaxe]

113. Is this the same they

as them? Because I heard they and them are up to all sorts of sheninangans ....strangely enough, no one under the sun can ever attach names to they and them.

Hell, you should hear what they have have been saying about you!

[Octafish]

132. One of their names to remember: BUSH.

"Money trumps peace." -- George W Bush, Feb. 14, 2007

Here's how the pretzeldent remembers President Kennedy:

"Today we remember a dark episode in our Nation's history, and we remember the leader whose life was cut short 50 years ago. John F. Kennedy dedicated himself to public service, and his example moved Americans to do more for our country. He believed in the greatness of the United States and the righteousness of liberty, and he defended them. On this solemn anniversary, Laura and I join our fellow citizens in honoring our 35th President." -- George W Bush, Nov. 22, 2013

Some missing concept there.

[Riftaxe]

141. I suppose it would be too much to ask

if you had an credible evidence to support that?

[Octafish]

147. FBI work for you?

Apart form all the corruption I mean, they do keep paper records:

Which is what GHWB told the FBI when dropping a dime on a suspect an hour afterward. Larry Sabato did not bring this up when talking about JFK the other day, for some reason.



Things have pretty much gone the warmongers' way ever since: "Money trumps peace."

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3669640

Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #

What's a real coincidence is how the CIA failed to tell the FBI and the Warren Commission that it was involved in plots with the Mafia to murder Fidel Castro -- even after being ordered to stop by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3669640

A few more examples:

And those who believe "Them" in the secret government who hold onto metadata and the rest of the inside knowledge and secrets are all good patriots, remember what the national security state has done for We the People lately: Kept the secrets that most benefit them -- the warmonger have-mores -- and most penalized the 99-percent We the People of democracy.

That secret government is at the heart of the rot that is modern America. The management of that same secret government, after being ordered to stop trying to kill Castro, failed to tell President Kennedy about ZR/RIFLE. Then, they didn't tell the Warren Commission they hadn't told him. Later, when asked by Congress, they also lied.

That same secret national security leadership would later tell President Johnson that North Vietnam attacked our destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, later bug the Watergate on behalf of CREEP, later meet with the Ayatollah's people to extend the hostage ordeal in Iran, tell Ronald Pruneface that trading arms for hostages and sending the profits to go around Congress in Central America was a good idea, got paid big time by petrodollars at BCCI and big bucks from Rev Moon, would help loot the S&Ls and later the entire banking system, and made war on Iraq and Afghanistan and other nations that had zero to do with September 11.

Odd, that long string of unconstitutionality by the people running the cia and nsa and all the rest of the secret alphabet soup in the the secret government. Going from their actions, the actions of the national security state are treasonous as they only serve to benefit themselves -- the friends of the Dulles Brothers, Harrimans, Rockefellers, the Have-Mores -- at the expense of everyone else, the BFEE. And while it didn't start there, what we live in today was made possible by what went on down there in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963.

That specific enough, Riftaxe?

[Riftaxe]

150. Worked for the WC

and they spent a hell of a lot more time about it...I would suggest spending more time on evidence, and less on trying to tie in further lunatic CTs into an already laughable one.

But hey if you find something not already thoroughly debunked, let me know

[Octafish]

153. I didn't think it would.

You asked for names. I gave you names.

Odd how all you contribute is an emoticon.

[kentuck]

133. I wonder which side is really the "conspiracy theorist"??

The close-minded ones or the open-minded ones?

[Spider Jerusalem]

144. It's not "closed-minded".

It's "evidence-based". Accepting the conclusions presented by actual evidence rather than wild speculation is not "closed-minded"; believing nonsense that doesn't have any supporting evidence isn't "open-minded".

[deminks]

142. Why would anyone believe what Philip Shenon writes?

He partnered with Judy Miller on so many propagan...I mean NYT pieces, he even got into a spot of trouble with her over possibly warning a couple of middle eastern companies that may have funded terrorists that the Feds were coming. We used to speculate that Miss Judy was a CIA plant - mostly because of her work in Iraq directing troops to look for WMD.

Why would he stop catapulting the propaganda? It may be a lucrative business. IMHO.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/02/washington/02phones.html?_r=0

[whistler162]

145. Probably the same ones that killed Lincoln, Garfield, and McKinley!

So has that widow of a African potentate come through with your cash yet?

[Sheri]

149. agreed. no way a lone gunman did that. nt

[leveymg]

151. KNR