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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums(Sorry) more good press for Pope in USA Today: Pope ramps up charity office to be near poor, sick
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/11/28/pope-francis-charity-office/3776499/VATICAN CITY (AP) — When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis was known to sneak out at night and break bread with the homeless, sit with them literally on the street and eat with them, as part of his aim to share the plight of the poor and let them know someone cared.
That's not so easy to do now that he's pope. But Francis is still providing one-on-one doses of emergency assistance to the poor, sick and aged through a trusted archbishop. Konrad Krajewski is the Vatican Almoner, a centuries-old job of handing out alms — and Francis has ramped up the job to make it a hands-on extension of his own personal charity.
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RandySF
(58,799 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)
Bluestar
(1,400 posts)
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)to have them, than have them at the Vatican where millions can see them.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)It will be interesting to see where he takes the church in the years to come.
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)he has a food tester. If he were to have an unfortunate accident I wouldn't at all be surprised...
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)How dare him, how dare him to care about the people of the world!
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Catholic deacon who "liked" the Paul Ryan budget on his Facebook page. I figure he's blown a few gaskets by now. hehehehe
Cha
(297,196 posts)I imagine you're right about the gaskets.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)of "questioning" looking into Eastern religions etc. Unlike me, he went back in a BIG way to the Holy Mother Church. He's a real hardnose hardliner. Other than that, he can be a lot of fun. 
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)That's when they show their TRUE stripes! Sounds like this pope has got "community organizer" credentials.
Go, Pope!
Volaris
(10,270 posts)that falls under the rubric of "We LOVE it, when it it works on OUR favor."
I, for one, am quite liking the fact that the Rick Santorum, Opus Dei, types are having to eat a bit of Crow with this Pope, as it's been far too long in coming.
My understanding of America is that for a great long while, Catholics in America were much hated by the Anglo-Protestant establishment power structure (and I admit to understanding why that fear was kind of there), and because of that, Catholic Americans were a pretty reliable protest vote AGAINST the interests of that (political) power structure I.E., DEMOCRATIC PARTY voters. When the Roe decision came down, it was argued to them that the position they SHOULD be taking was the one of the Moral Majority, and that argument largely has worked for the last 20 years or so.
If this is in fact changing, it's the doom of politically active, Evangelical-Dominionist-prosperity-gospel-swilling lunacy in America.
And, they KNOW it.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)I am disgusted that anyone here would promote this monster.
RVN VET
(492 posts)Rome wasn't built in a day -- and it sure as hell isn't going to be purged of its perverts in a day, either. If you really believe the Pope could make all the changes you want overnight, you're either naive or just not thinking clearly. And if you're not thinking clearly it may be because you've had too much to eat or because you just don't like the Catholic church.
Well, I've had too much to eat, and I don't like the Catholic church. But I'm impressed by Pope Frankie and think he will continue to refashion the church into something that even non-believers can respect. But you can't clean a sewer in a day. He's let it be known that he won't tolerate the child rapists -- but for now, he is focusing on the plight of the poor.
Give the guy a little time. If he's not assassinated (and it won't be a papal first if he is) he's going to do exactly what you want him to do.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And the same dumbass reasoning that makes him a bigot is the same reasoning that makes him progressive on economic issues.
I have no respect for such a moral dunce. I'm glad he's the new Pope like I'd be glad at Christie being president over Palin.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Particularly BAD excuses. This Pope is LITERALLY sheltering thousands or tens of thousands of child raping and child torturing monsters. That makes him one of the most despicable monsters alive today, and in a just world he would be in prison for the remainder of his twisted life.
rpannier
(24,329 posts)
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)...are just minor things people are finding to be disgusted over in your opinion. They aren't "real" issues, right? Smh...
rpannier
(24,329 posts)Merely pointing out that there are some people who take pleasure in criticizing anything someone does no matter how good the act is
Just as there are some people unable to find any fault in someone no matter how badly they behave
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I am disgusted by people who attempt to accuse innocents of crimes they did not commit.
Btw how do you feel about War Criminsals who are responsible for the torture, the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children who have been given a pass by our Government? I'm talking about MURDER, of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians? What do you think our current government ought to do about that? Who is covering for these criminals do you think?
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)...of protecting war criminals? Far fewer than are willing to shower love and praise onto a misogynistic bigot, I can assure you.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)by our government. Are YOU responsible, am I responsible for all those murders of innocents simply because we are Americans?
I take zero responsibility for those crimes because I had no control over the criminals. How about you?
Lots of people all over the world are not interested in the details, if you are American you are guilty of crimes against humanity in their view. Even though you had nothing to do with them. Even though you may be disgusted by them.
Yet here you are accusing someone who has never even been accused of committing the crimes you are attempting to accuse him of.
How do you feel about YOU being accused of guilt by association?? Because there are stupid, extremists who do hold YOU, because you are an American, responsible for the crimes committed by others.
Do you feel guilty, responsible for those crimes?
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)I'm completely floored at the disconnect from reality demonstrated by your post.
Reply 16. It says it all.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)guilty of unspeakable crimes committed by our government because we are Americans. Do you agree with them?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)is that there are people, regardless of the fact that many Americans do not support those crimes, who will do what is being done here to millions of Catholics, blame all Americans for the crimes of a few.
There are pedophiles sadly, all over the world. This pope, anymore than you or I, is not a pedaphile and to see such vile accusations against anyone, simply loses credibility for those making them. People are sick to death of extremists who, filled with hate, launch such vicious attacks against people who are in no way guilty of anything.
You just defended yourself against what I pointed out, IS an accusation being made against ALL Americans for the war crimes committed by our government. Don't make it to me, I do not use broadbrush accusations against any group of people. Try defending yourself against the same kind of people who are accusing all Catholics, including this pope, of being supportive of pedophilia because it is the same kind of extremist who will blame YOU because of one thing, you are American, who is blaming all Catholics, because they are Catholics, of crimes they did not commit. And it is disgusting.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)But then, as you seemingly have no issue with the Pope and his child raping legions, perhaps I can assume the answer ahead of time. In any case, once you have stepped to the plate in moral defense of the Catholic Church or it's leadership, that's pretty much the end of any moral credibility you might try to claim.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)back.
Do you defend this government's murderous wars, drone killings and torture? Because, assuming you are an American, based on YOUR own logic, there are moronic people in this world who view you as guilty of unspeakable crimes against humanity simply because you are American.
Broad, sweeping, statements that accuse all people of any race, ethnicity or religion of being guilty of the crimes of a few. That is pure bigotry at its worst.
And that is what YOU just did regarding the Catholic Church, an organization made up of nearly one billion human beings, all of whom according to you, are supportive of child abuse. I have seen some ridiculous statements in online forums, that one is up there with some of the worst in terms of any kind of logic.
You know NOTHING about me, yet you spew vile, false accusations such as that, and probably expect decent people here to take ANYTHING you have to say seriously ever again??
That is the one good thing about people exposing themselves like that, they lose ALL credibility on any other topic from then on.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Once again, post a link to a comment of mine defending pedophiles or retract that disgusting lie.
There is no issue so important to any person that they would ever sink to such a level, to accuse any innocent person of supporting pedophilia.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)I also posted this in the "Catholic/orthodox" group after that comment about religion "not being allowed in GD". I did BTW look first to see if it was ok to post this in GD and somehow didn't see that it wasn't. My bad bad bad.
P.S.: I left the R.C. church many moons ago and am now a "none."
zeemike
(18,998 posts)But good news not so much.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Unless they're esoteric religious stuff (e.g., how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...). He's a world leader and what he does is of general interest.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Many people help the poor daily.
Why is the Pope special?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)so much poverty and even death by someone who has the power to do so after the silence of others who Could have done what he is doing, but were too compromised or cowardly to do so?
I don't get it!
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I don't get it!
The Pope is supposed to oppose capitalism. Even Ratz did a speech opposing capitalism this year: https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/01/01-4
Why is it special when Franny does it?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)because you are an American? There are some extremists who believe that. Do you accept that responsibility? I'm assuming you do considering your comments re the Pope. Seems to me you believe that if someone is a citizen of a country that has murdered and tortured innocent people they are automatically guilty of those crimes, regardless of their own personal opinions on the crimes.
Perhaps you can explain your position on 'guilt by association' so the rest of us understand where you are coming from.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Where was your love and admiration for Pope Benedict?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)As an American, are you responsible for the crimes committed against humanity by your government? There ARE extremists who believe you are and are not interested at all in your personal views of those crimes.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)The obvious homophobe that Francis really is. Yet you keep showing admiration for him and hold him up on a pedestal, not caring that people like me are hurt when we see so - called liberals supporting a homophobe. Your support means you're not doing anything to change his views. And why would he change them when he's got everyone's support?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)New guy:: not a Nazi. Old guy: fucking Nazi piece of shit. You have every right to be clueless, but don't expect to get a pass when you're parading that cluelessness.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Yeah. Okay.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)And into the real world..
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)Most any other homophobic misogynist would have no credibility on this site on any other subject, or at least their credibility would be poisoned to the point where they were not mentioned every time they said the most basic ideals of economic progressives, much less celebrated.
The foundational problem of the Pope (and all religiously based progressive ideas) is that he wants to help poor people because god told him too, the same god that tells him that women are second class and gay marriage is a plan of the devil. There is no rationality to it, just a very cruel authoritarian "god" whom you must please or be tortured for eternity. The Pope is a moral dunce. I have far more respect for people whose morality is informed by their experiences, their empathy, their logic and reasoning, and who have open minds. That is everything religion is not, no matter how pretty of a bow you want to put on it. The celebratory attitude every time the Pope drools is embarrassing to see on this site.
The cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty surrounding the Pope threads are the result of the privilege religion still has in our society, especially American society.
The Pope explicitly supports policies aimed at gays and women that hurt and kill people and strip them of their rights. And his reasoning for doing so is the exact same reasoning that leads him to be progressive on economic matters. Any support of that sort of reasoning is disgusting to me, no matter if it happens to align with my views or not.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)/thread
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)I can think of many people who are on the right side of economic issues AND who aren't also bigots.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)advocates, they want to 'pray away the gay' and make us all very uncomfortable in what they think is 'their space', they are entitled, as God's chosen folks, to judge and to smear and to defend their mendacious, hate mongering leaders.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)And I will encourage and support LGBT rights. It's all very complicated. But it's okay in my mind to support what this Pope is doing as progress and not feel that he has to be right (at least to me) on all issues before I express that support. He's the head of an institution that defined the Dark Ages of European history. A little light is not a bad thing. A little progress is better than none at all. It is historical news when a religious leader decides to pull the institutional nose out of the ass of the wealthy elite even if for a moment. You may not like religion - I don't like it either - but to accept nothing less than its complete transformation in a day is failing to appreciate the awkward advances of historical change.
I forget the saying but it goes something like this: Support with all your encouragement that which is positive while continuing to diligently work against that which is negative. I do not see humanity letting go of its chains to large, institutionalized religions any time soon. Not in our lifetime, I can guarantee you that. Progressive change doesn't have to come in the form of radical destruction and rarely does. Real change comes from within and it grows in smaller ways first. Seriously, who thought that during the Bush years that there would be progress on gay rights, yet there was. And it made possible the legislation that has been possible during Obama's time as president. Still a long way to go but it would not have helped to shit on the conservatives when they supported gay rights (for whatever their reasons were). Politics is messy and ugly but our only means to securing our rights in the public sphere.
I will be disgusted to my dying day what people do to each other in the names of their religions, but I welcome with open arms efforts to helping the poor, the disenfranchised, and the pinpointed accuracy at which Pope Francis is calling out those most responsible for the abject poverty in this world. That such a major world figure is doing such a thing is big news, not just religious news (and if relegated to just religious news, that will be just fine with the wealthy who are most threatened by talk of social justice and income equality). The way I see it, the LGBT community stands a far better chance at achieving the rights they so fundamentally deserve in a prosperous world that values social justice than one in which poverty crushes all other concerns.
I choose to selectively support the efforts I see. No one person is perfect in all aspects. Would you not agree? If Pope Francis speaks out against gay rights, I will speak out against that. If there are no efforts to bring to justice the pedophile abusers in the church, I will speak out against that. I can agree and disagree with the same person the same institution. I am not obligated to make everyone or everything an all or nothing deal, though sometimes I do. It really depends on the circumstances. And the position of Pope in a major world religion makes things a bit more complex.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)In his home country of Aregentina, he was such a vicious hate monger that the President of Argentina said his words were 'suggestive of the Inquisition'. Francis had called gay couples 'an attack on God's plan' and said that our relationships come from Satan. Are you speaking out against that? .
Francis was leader of the 30% in Argentina that opposed marriage equality. 'Who am I to judge' he says, but the answer is 'one of the minority of bigots opposed to equality and to justice'. That's who he is.
I understand that most of you never heard of him until he became Pope, but that does not excuse your foisting off that ignorance as fact. A virulent anti gay political activist, that is what Francis has been for the bulk of his career. Those who know the facts see posts like yours in light of those truths.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Yes, I knew nothing of him before his becoming the Pope. I wish him all the success in the world in fighting poverty but if he's as intolerant of gay people as you say, then that in itself is very wrong. He's badly in need of further enlightenment. The church has a long way to go on a lot of very basic human issues. Homosexuality being one, birth control another, pedophilia among its priests another. Maybe getting things right with poverty will spur other changes. I agree not to let one aspect be the sole definition. But let's encourage any positive development in a major human institution that has for far too long been a tool of the wealthy elite to maintain their control over money. Francis is a vast improvement over Ratso. But obviously not a saint.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)simply continued with your promotion of him and your dismissal of his bigotry. 'I'll speak out' you said, but what you did was mutter maybes and 'let's nots' and repeated your admiration for the anti gay guy. Why say you'd speak out when you don't mean it?
Ratso, as you call him, said most of the same things about poverty and globalization that Francis is now simply repeating. Ratso, as you call him, did not have the virulent anti minority history, the log of hateful actions, that Frankie has.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)And no one here gave a shit.
Now, Franny is saying the same things and suddenly, he's a liberal hero.
is wrong with the people here? They need to quit drinking the kool aid.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)
gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)would bring out so many hateful responses?
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)MellowDem
(5,018 posts)Leads people on a progressive site to call out the cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy of doing so! How utterly hateful those ungrateful people are!
But seriously, you might want to examine the privilege it takes to praise a bigot and call criticism of that same bigot as hateful.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)someone actually finally pointing out the evil of predatory Capitalism which has caused, not just poverty, but death. I don't get it.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)Seriously? You are the definition of cognitive dissonance.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)People like you go on my ignore list.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)cozy aspects of some quaint man. I think Francis speaks of poverty as other Popes all do, as an exploitative set of rhetoric designed to cover up the child abuse and financial corruption of the organization.
Did you adore and promote and defend Benedict? The two share the same view of women and of gay people.
Here are Pope Quotes about battles with evil things. Which Pope said which thing?:
1. " In this context, fighting poverty requires attentive consideration of the complex phenomenon of globalization. This is important from a methodological standpoint, because it suggests drawing upon the fruits of economic and sociological research into the many different aspects of poverty. Yet the reference to globalization should also alert us to the spiritual and moral implications of the question, urging us, in our dealings with the poor, to set out from the clear recognition that we all share in a single divine plan: we are called to form one family in which all – individuals, peoples and nations – model their behaviour according to the principles of fraternity and responsibility"
2.“Our world shows increasing evidence of another grave threat to peace: many individuals and indeed whole peoples are living today in conditions of extreme poverty. The gap between rich and poor has become more marked, even in the most economically developed nations. This is a problem which the conscience of humanity cannot ignore, since the conditions in which a great number of people are living are an insult to their innate dignity and as a result are a threat to the authentic and harmonious progress of the world community”
3. "At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.
Let’s not be naive: This is not a simple political fight; it is a destructive proposal to God’s plan. This is not a mere legislative proposal (that’s just it’s form), but a move by the father of lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."
The first two are about poverty, first is Benedict, #2 is JP2. The third, about marriage rights for gay couples, is from Francis. Francis said this when 70% of Argentina favored equality. "Who am I to judge?" indeed, he was among the leaders of the 30% opposed to equality for minorities they don't like.
By all rights, you should have been kinder to Benedict and to JP2. Francis is a retread of the JP2 routines, he who kissed the feet of the disabled singer, he who forgave the man who shot him....
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)The other poster said absolutely NOTHING about the Pope's dogma being cute and cozy aspects of the man. When you have to lie about other poster' swords in your first sentence, you've proven that your words are of no value and that you're not to be taken seriously.
Aside from that, how the fuck did you think you could get by with this dishonest garbage? Learn how to tell the truth when trying to make a point.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I characterized that as being comfy and cozy with those aspects of the man. Sorry if that bothers you. There is nothing dishonest about what I typed, however those who dismiss horrific bigotry over some rhetoric that is no different from the rhetoric of other Popes are being hugely dishonest.
Learn that people do not speak in dull, illiterate tones. The other poster says Francis message is different that that of his predecessors, 'finally' she says. I offered three quotes, one from Francis, one from Benedict, one from JP2 which show that they all speak of poverty while actively promoting bigotry, opposing equality and claiming that contraception is a huge moral wrong.
Those who claim Francis has a new message are dishonest, as my post shows. I note you are unable to counter the content. I note that well.
Those who excuse bigotry command it to occur.
.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)that matches what you claim I said or even thought, then please do so.
What you left out regarding the different popes, was Francis' attack on Right Wing fundies here when he told them to stop their obsession with Abortion and Gays and start thinking about issues such as poverty. He pointed out their hypocrisy in terms of calling themselves Christians. He is speaking to Christians and he has removed from the Right Wing here the very tools they like to use in each election against Democratic Christians, against people like Kerry because they can no longer point to the Church to back up their 'obsessions' as the the most important issues they should thing of before the vote.
If you do not see the significance of what he has done to them, I can't help you.
But the impact of what he said to so-called Christians has been obvious from their reaction to his words.
Please post some quotes from other popes who have admonished those using Women and Gays to win elections??
And please do not put words in my mouth, I don't do it to you.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)care about the poor!'. That is putting words into other's mouths, and doing so to protect a bigot.
I am clearly more familiar than you are with what Francis really said about 'abortion and gays' that day on his private jet (for the poor of course). Francis that day attacked 'the gay lobby, it's bad.' he said. Your characterization of his words is a silly one, utterly absurd. Francis was THE leader of the anti gay forces in Argentina, the President there called his attacks 'Medieval and suggestive of the Inquisition'. Francis said gay relationships are an attack on God's plan which comes from 'the author of all evil'. Do you agree with that? He has also said that allowing gay people to raise children is 'discrimination against the children'. He himself used attacks on gay people in an attempt to influence elections, Sabrina. He did that. Not others, the man who now calls himself Francis did that. To claim he 'admonished' those who do what he did full time for years is crazy talk. If he has changed he needs to ask forgiveness, make amends and do penance. Instead he holds private jet pressers in which he rants about 'the gay lobby'.
Considering you refuse to admit what Francis really says and really does, and considering you utterly discount his anti gay rantings and the harm done to others by his rantings, you do seem fairly comfortable with Francis level of hate speech against gay people. If you aren't you have sure walked passed a hundred chances to say so here in this thread.
Here is a full article about the presser you think was so good. I assume you agree with it all, including this:
"Addressing the issue of the gay lobby, Pope Francis said it was important to "distinguish between a person who is gay and someone who makes a gay lobby," he said. "A gay lobby isn't good."
"A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will -- well, who am I to judge him?" the pope said. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society. The problem isn't this (homosexual) orientation -- we must be like brothers and sisters. The problem is something else, the problem is lobbying either for this orientation or a political lobby or a Masonic lobby."
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1303260.htm
'Who am I to judge?' asks a man who built his career as a raging anti gay political activist, a man who said we are an attack on God's plan says 'who am I to judge'. Who indeed, since he has judged so publicly and so loudly for so many years....
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)Gradual progress, i.e., the way things really happen, is not good enough for the lala land utopians.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)Telling people not to concentrate as much on their homophobia and misogyny is hardly what I call progress.
Utopian my ass. It's called realist. And the reality the pope lovers want to ignore is that he's still a staunch social conservative. No, I don't dislike his support of the poor, but there are plenty of other people who also support the poor without the bigotry and misogyny (things proven to increase the hardships of poverty I might add). I'd much rather hear of the efforts of those people.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Not since Mother Theresa has someone reached out so openly to the forgotten and unwanted.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)I ask because there are still some who buy into the mythology constructed (and debunked) around Mother Theresa, so your post could be interpreted in several ways.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)to do something no one would do and gets trashed for it. Yes, she was also human with human failings.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)There's a huge difference, and that goes way beyond simple human failings.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)is a fabricated accusation meant to create hate against not only the woman but her faith. Those same accusations were made to Catholic social workers long before Mother Teresa existed.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)if i'm going to put someone on a pedestal, i'll be damn sure i know Exactly who they are. This from her wiki:
"in her Homes for the Dying, one could "hear the screams of people having maggots tweezered from their open wounds without pain relief. On principle, strong painkillers were not administered even in severe cases. According to Mother Teresa's philosophy, it is 'the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ'."[86][87][88]"
There's more and the rest isn't pretty either.
As far as lauding the Pope, i ostensibly agree with you, but i appreciate that many people all over the world follow the man and when he does positive things his followers do positive things. So i see this as a net positive and am ok with folk highlighting his current "good works"
Cleita
(75,480 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)start insulting me for my opinions anyway. I don't take to bullying very well.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)Enjoy life in your echo chambers.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)in honest discourse but are only interested in stirring the pot.
Paper Roses
(7,473 posts)I give him credit for his attempts to work out the problems of the church he leads.
Why are we always so critical when someone tries? Geeze, he just started the job. Give him a chance.
I do not belong to any religion but respect his office. Didn't like the last pope but this one seems to be more caring and more responsible to his followers.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"Fighting poverty requires attentive consideration of the complex phenomenon of globalization. This is important from a methodological standpoint, because it suggests drawing upon the fruits of economic and sociological research into the many different aspects of poverty. Yet the reference to globalization should also alert us to the spiritual and moral implications of the question, urging us, in our dealings with the poor, to set out from the clear recognition that we all share in a single divine plan: we are called to form one family in which all – individuals, peoples and nations – model their behaviour according to the principles of fraternity and responsibility."
Benedict
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
tabasco
(22,974 posts)he has read and understands the teachings of Christ?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Here is his hated predecessor, Benedict:
"fighting poverty requires attentive consideration of the complex phenomenon of globalization. This is important from a methodological standpoint, because it suggests drawing upon the fruits of economic and sociological research into the many different aspects of poverty. Yet the reference to globalization should also alert us to the spiritual and moral implications of the question, urging us, in our dealings with the poor, to set out from the clear recognition that we all share in a single divine plan: we are called to form one family in which all – individuals, peoples and nations – model their behaviour according to the principles of fraternity and responsibility."
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I recognize this Pope's efforts to place the focus back on the poor, where it should be. Yes, I know the Catholic Church is a misogynist and homophobic institution and I don't dismiss that, I just choose not to make it my SOLE focus. I can recognize and praise the good without accepting the bad.
This Pope isn't going to change the misogyny and homophobia within the Catholic Church BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS INHERENTLY HOMOPHOBIC AND MISOGYNIST. That's the Holy Book that ALL Christians follow so if you're going to condemn him based on the bigotry of their holy book, you've got to condemn all Christians. It's no different within the Jewish faith or the Muslim faith. Now, if you start rejecting people based upon the unacceptability of part of someone's religion, it's going to be a very lonely world for you.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The Bible has far more references to forbidden foods and heterosexual sexual activity than it does about gay people, by a huge margin, yet no Christians avoid pork, nor do they take ritual baths, wear garments of one fabric only, they do not keep each sort of plant in a different plot in the garden.
In the NT, Jesus says to sell all you have and give it to the poor, but Christians don't do that. He says 'Call no man father' and yet this thread is about a man called Holy Father no less, Vicar of Christ who said don't call him father! Jesus said only hypocrites pray in public, he forbade his followers from doing so, yet they do pray in public, at secular events, in gatherings, on TV.
What this stuff tells us is that this 'Holy Book' you claim they all follow is not followed at all. Even the words of Jesus are not followed, even his orders and instructions about how to pray and not to pray are rejected.
So they take the bits that say others are sinners, reject the bits that say their own actions are sins, and to call that 'Following this book' is a huge stretch.
If they did practice it, I might respect them.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)This one at least has some virtue. He's not egotistical, greedy, self-centered, wants to help the poor, criticizes governments hurting the poor, warmakers, etc. He's humble in a paradoxical way that makes him more highly elevated than former popes or leading politicians of almost every country.
The more he gets around, the more he'll understand. Even when he gets to know just what's going on in his own church, he'lll understand even better. Human nature is god-given, if there is one, and even if there are more than one. He can feed people, but he can't change their physiology. That's not in his job description.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)He's doing what Jesus told his followers to do, which is a clear sign he is the antiChrist. He's the flip side of most Christians today.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)It gives me hope when World Leaders use their power and position to work toward Economic Fairness for ALL.
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales
If the above seems Radical, it shouldn't.
FDR said much the same thing in his Economic BIll or Rights.
Among these are:
*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
*The right of every family to a decent home;
*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
*The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.
---FDR, State of the Union, 1944
Please note that FDR specified the above as Basic Human RIGHTS,
and not as Commodities to be SOLD to Americans by private corporations.
I am not surprised that some have found reasons to hate the above World Leaders,
but I am surprised at the venom directed to this new Pope on DU for carrying a Liberal Economic message.
If MORE World Leaders had the courage to simply STAND UP and support economic fairness for ALL, the World would quickly become a better place.
[font color=firebrick][center]The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR. [/font][/center]
Kingofalldems
(38,454 posts)The Pope is OK in my book.
