Which do you trust the most: the "government" or the "market"?

[kentuck]

The conservative argument is always for "smaller government" and the magic of the "marketplace".

Liberals tend to argue for government solutions to problems in our society.

For many conservatives, government cannot be too small. For many liberals, government cannot be too big.

The reality is that both are likely wrong on that count. Government can be too big and government can be too small. The best argument is for the government that is needed. If it is not needed, it is too big. If it needed and not supported, it is too small.

But the idea is for government to do what people cannot accomplish as individuals, whether it be fixing our roads and bridges or providing healthcare that is needed for our citizens.

The idea that the "marketplace" will take care of all these needs is misguided and cruel. The "free market" is based on winners and losers and is based on the profit motive. It is not possible to fulfill the needs of the people thru a "free market". Only the "government" can do that.

[Scootaloo]

1. For all its flaws, I have a hand in determining the operation of the government

And besides, a market cannot exist without a government to support, protect, and provide capital for it anyway.

[valerief]

2. Aren't they the same thing now? nt

[spin]

27. You nailed it. (n/t)

[JHB]

3. Both need checks and balances, and separation of powers.

Faith in the magic of the market to ultimately be right belongs in the same category as faith in the Divine Right of kings to carry out God's will.

A big difference, however, is that you don't actually have all that many liberals who think government is the cure to all ills. And on the other side, the biggest push against "big government" is by those who who simply use the rhetoric as a tool; they only want "small government" where government limits their ability to wield arbitrary power themselves. They're fine with it when it enhances their own agendas.

[Skip Intro]

4. Well, you said trust, and I do not trust the government in most intances.

I do not want to have to ask the government, from the time I wake up to the time I go to sleep, for permission to do this or that. I don't want the government making decisions that, as a free individual, I should be making for myself. To use an example a Libertarian friend of mine likes to use, I find it ridiculous that regular, ordinary light bulbs have all but disappeared. There are a lot of examples, however, of large, intrusive government. I'm more a believer in individual liberty, which is something you don't hear much about from the left. I believe it is part of the government's job, as those we elect to run it swear to uphold the Constitution, to take great care in protecting individual liberty. I'm not a fan of the "nanny state."

Now before somebody goes off and starts calling me names, I will say that I do not agree with the right's idea of infinitesimally small government. We do need the government to perform functions like food safety, roads, national defense, etc.

And I don't think healthcare should be left entirely to the markets - no one should go without medical care simply because they don't have the money to pay for it. There must be some mechanism that prevents that. I don't think the answer is the ACA, however.

But trust? Do I trust the government? No, I do not. The government lies and many times seems to have disdain for the idea of individual liberty.

Ok, sock it to me...

[kentuck]

7. I agree.

[Skip Intro]

9. Well arlight.

I was ready to be raked over the coals for using some of those words, lol.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

5. We need the government to protect

Us from the market. Of course it seems at times the market owns the government and ther in lies the problem...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. That's why we need to keep them separate, like the church and state.

Everyone complains about insurance companies but now that insurance companies are wedded to the government via the ACA the government, instead of filling the oversight role, must now maintain corporate profitability. Failure to do so means the entire structure of the government program would be jeopardized even if it comes at the expense of people's health care.

Government has a very proper and necessary role but it becomes fascist -- by literal definition -- when it assumes the role of the entities that people employ to freely live their lives. We need government to the force protecting us from those who exploit and cheat, not become board members of those very same corporations.

[kentuck]

12. Interesting perspective.

I think you are right.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Wal-Mart, for all its ills,

never kicked in doors in the middle of the night and gunned down members of the family sleeping inside while terrorizing the survivors and then said, "Our bad, wrong address on the search warrant." without prosecuting those responsible.

[on point]

8. The market doesn't know how to manage the commons without government

[ananda]

11. Are they different?

..

[socialist_n_TN]

13. You can't trust either under capitalism.....

because they're the same or at least close enough to be very little difference.

[Captain Stern]

14. Isn't that somewhat of a False Dichotomy?

You could just as well ask: "Who do you trust the most, the government or your mother?"

I think government excels in some areas that the market doesn't, and I think there are other areas that are better left to the influence of the free market. The trick is in figuring out which of those areas is which.

Probably a better question to compare to government/market question to is: "Who do you trust most, your plumber or your electrician?"

[kentuck]

15. I disagree.

I don't think the comparison between government and the marketplace is anything close to a comparison between your plumber and your electrician.

[Captain Stern]

18. Why not?

I think my plumber is best suited to take care of things that are plumbing-related. While my electrician is very capable at what he does, his particular skill set isn't suited for fixing pipes.

I think government is best suited to take care of things that are for the good of each and all....national defense, infrastructure, health insurance, public safety, public education, libraries, etc. I don't think the free market is well suited to handle those types of things. However, I don't think government would do a good job deciding which goods should be produced or not produced.

[kentuck]

20. Do you mean something like crop subsidies?

How much corn can be made into ethanol, for example? Leave it to the market?

Can you give some examples of goods that are produced that are "decided" by the government instead of the marketplace? And the marketplace would be better without government intervention?

[Captain Stern]

34. I wasn't thinking of crop subsides in particular.

Regrettably I dont feel I'm well enough informed on whether or not the government should limit how much corn should be made into ethanol, or mandate that a certain amount of corn must be made into ethanol, to speak about it intelligently.

I can't give any examples of goods that are being produced at the decision of our government (except goods that are exclusively bought by our government) now, because I think we actually do a reasonably good job of keeping that from happening.

I think government is best suited for providing things that all of us need. I think the marketplace does a better job of providing us with things we want.

[bemildred]

16. Neither. Why should I? nt

[TBF]

17. I believe in people -

whether they decide to gather in a government, co-op fashion, etc ...

The "market" is based upon profit and I think it's time we moved to a resource based economy.

[FarCenter]

19. Which government? What market?

The abstract question is not very meaningful.

[kentuck]

22. Republicans are "market" people.

Democrats are "government" people. We, the People, are the government. We believe in solutions that help the people at large, not a marketplace that helps the few at the expense of the many.

[FarCenter]

33. Municipality runs a competent garbage collection and the US market for No 2 yellow corn seems OK.

I wouldn't depend on the Federal government to run a anti-terrorist campaign very well.

The over-the-counter derivatives market in London seems to be a cesspool.

We should judge real markets and real governments based on their performance.

[treestar]

21. the government, because we all get one vote

in the market, the amount of money you have means you have less of a vote than those with more.

[REP]

23. That's like asking "shit" or "go blind"

As my grandmother used to say.

[kentuck]

24. Does that mean you dislike them both equally??

Could you explain?

[REP]

28. Neither sounds like a great choice

The market is like a fire; it consumes all it touches. Harnessed with the proper regulations, it can provide warmth without burning down the house.

Governments are as good as the people in it. Not just those we can elect/unelect; there are thousands upon thousands of appointed beaurocrats stuck like barnacles on the government. There may be some good, decent, ethical and efficient ones, but the process for removing the inefficient, incompetent, corrupt and criminal ones is as elusive as the philosopher's stone

[maced666]

25. I just watched 'the market' feed thousands yesterday.

Local churches together, didn't work on it I admit but I did donate and stop by to see how they prepare dressing for over 3,000 needy families. It was spread out on tables across half a basketball court - quite a sight to see!

I would vote trust govt more but I see things like this yesterday, and remember our cyclical political cycle that brings us bush years which if you remember are NOTHING close to trust-worthy.

[kentuck]

30. Was it the market or was it the people?

We, the People, are the "government".

[Democracyinkind]

26. A tricky question in a world where the distinction has become meaningless. nt

[LWolf]

29. There's a difference? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

Thomas Paine

Alas, government is usually the handmaiden of capitalism which induces the "intolerable" part.

[Ed Suspicious]

32. Chomsky calls the players in the market "tiny tyrannies". Antidemocratic forces. I believe in

democracy. I believe in government.

[Scuba]

35. Ah yes, the "free hand" ....