General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsInterview with blacklisted comedian, Mort Sahl, 1968 quotes and warnings after JFK's death.
http://www.assassinationscience.com/AnHistoricalPerspective-MortSahl.htmlMort Sahl was black-listed after JFKs death when he came out publically disputing the Warren Commissions lone assassin theory:
ARGO: What is the extent of the conspiracy and why is the government so desperate to keep the truth from the American public?
SAHL: We have determined that elements of the Central Intelligence Agency planned the execution and killed the President. Lee Oswald attended those meetings planning it. He was the only non-CIA man at the meeting. And he worked for the FBI. We then find that an FBI code clerk has a message come through, a twx, through the southern regional offices of the FBI, warning five days ahead that the President will be assassinated and we still later find Oswald saying, "I was a patsy," in the Dallas Police Station. The "elements" are in the Central Intelligence Agency. They don't want to lose their power. And they don't want to fall. It has become government by hoodlum. And I don't blame them. If I were them, I wouldn't want to fall either. I would pull out all the stops as well, as they have. On the other hand, while I know that neo-Nazis would want to kill a man like John Kennedy, I don't understand why liberals would want to protect them from prosecution.
ARGO: What would you say are the roots of this whole era?
SAHL: Fascism. It started with the death of Roosevelt. They moved in and they negated every treaty we made with every world leader who didn't fit the fascist/militarist mold. We went back on our word. As David Schoenbrun says very well, "I am not a dissenter for saying this. Those who betrayed American policy are the dissenters." We've gone back on the dream of national independence and we were the model for the rest of the world. Then when they followed our model, we attacked them for it. Shameful. No one has a right to stain the American flag. And unfortunately, we have people in this country who did it. If America goes, it will surely be an inside job.
ARGO: What will make the American people face themselves and, to use your expression, rise up like an army?
SAHL: Well, they have very decent instincts. If they didn't, the government would not have to hide the facts from them. They could give them any facts and the people would be insensitive. But, they have a sense of decency because they come from better stock then that. And so, once the truth is revealed to them, they're no longer under a cloak of ignorance. Public opinion will change things. There will be a ground swell. These people will resign or will be lost in the shuffle. But, you know, the country was structured so that we could have violent change without violent overthrow. I'm very optimistic in that sense. The principles of America may be better than the group currently practicing or ignoring them, as you will. But, the country has great relilience, and once they get the information, they my yet have time to save themselves.
Our job here is to give the young people time. We're just like the fellow in the movie The Seventh Cross. He works with the partisans. We've got to give the young people time to get here, to save America.
ARGO: Why is the trial that Mr. Garrison's pursuing really the trial of the American people?
SAHL: Because we have to decide. Once the neo-fascists became bold enough to slay the President on the street, they showed their hand. They showed how arrogant they had become. Now it's a question of symptom. That crime was a national symptom. If we can turn our back on that, we will pay a terrible price. That will be the end of this democracy. As a matter of fact, it's been dying since Kennedy's death. We have to cleanse our soul. It's much the same as the French when they regained their national honor, not by framing Dreyfus, but by admitting that they did.
---------------
Seems the CT began immediately, and the "investigation" is yet to be full and completed. As for me, I will stand with those who question, and I will stand proudly.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)And then they shut him down. I guess they were more scared of the truth then than now. Now, those that don't believe Warren and 9/11 commissions are considered nuts. I think just the opposite. If they had been truthful EVERYTHING would have came out. And if the 9/11 commission only looked at their conclusion, they would see the core beams aren't standing around 50 stories of debris like their little shitty NIST cartoon they made.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)Mort Sahl didn't know what happened. Why is this being posted here in GD? The website at that link is a prime CT site, full of "we didn't land on the moon" nonsense and worse. It's a crazy talk site.
http://www.assassinationscience.com/
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Yet the woo-believers don't care about that.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)I think that "woo" is always believing the official story, even after it's been revealed that official stories, like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and the Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction, have often been a pack of lies.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Especially when the official story is so obviously full of holes. The American people doubt the official JFK story for good reason. No "woo" about it.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)"Woo" is beliving that vaccines cause autism. "Woo" is beliving that no aeroplanes struck the WTC and that's just a cover-story for a false-flag op and controlled demolition. "Woo" is believing Barack Obama was born in Kenya. "Woo" is beliving Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings in the Nevada desert. "Woo" is believing that some shadowy and sinister Mafia/CIA/LBJ/MIC conpsiracy killed Kennedy.
What do those things have in common? There's not a single bit of evidence for any of them and there's considerable evidence that contradicts those assertions.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Exactly how old are you youngdem?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)so the woo-believers have free reign.
Sid
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)Fifty years and the same CT's never go away.
Garrison tried Clay Shaw and it took one hour for the jury to find him not guilty. So, if Mr. Garrison tried the American People, the American people were acquitted. It's time to move on.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Very hard to fudge and fake the moon landing. Not an assassination. This is a common trick, to lump realistic questions with nutty stuff.
Spend a little time and listen to what the doctors at Parkland originally said about the throat wound being an entrance wound. Spend a little time perusing multiple film and pictures right after the murder - everyone, including law officers, are moving, running etc. toward the grassy knoll area. Look at the Zapruder film - it's clear the main kill shot was from the right front. Oh, look at the amazing amount of sudden deaths of people who might have had pertinent info -like Dorothy Killgallon - the House committee lost several who were about to testify, funny how that happens.
There was more than one person shooting and Oswald may not have been one of them.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)As Mort Sahl said in his autobiography "Heartland":
"Now you know there are murderers among us, killers of the dream. You know what they did.
I know some of you don't want to get involved, but you began your involvement when you began life.
Do it for the best friend you ever had, John F. Kennedy.
Do it for yourself.
You must do it, because there is no one else."
OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x602847
Thank you, mother earth. I stand with you.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)theories about the Kennedy assassination as well as many other opinions and quips of his. Mort wore black. I loved him.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)he had an acribic intellectual wit that inspired, Chris Rock, Bill hicks, Jon Stewart, George Carlin and many more.
Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen.
― Mort Sahl
Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference.
― Mort Sahl
kick nominated
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference.
Raksha
(7,167 posts)Washington couldn't tell a lie, Nixon couldn't tell the truth, and Reagan couldn't tell the difference.
― Mort Sahl
I don't think I ever realized how brilliant Mort Sahl was until I read this interview. That quote is just icing on the cake.
Is he still alive, BTW?
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Mac Wallace was LBJ's personal assassin. Wallace's fingerprints were found at the Book Depository shooting site.
According to Barr McClellan, the author of Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK:
Kinser asked Josefa (LBJ's sister) if she could arrange for her brother to loan him some money. Johnson interpreted this as a blackmail threat (Josefa had told Kinser about some of her brother's corrupt activities).
On 22nd October, 1951, Mac Wallace went to Kinser's miniature golf course. After finding Kinser in his golf shop, he shot him several times before escaping in his station wagon. A customer at the golf course had heard the shooting and managed to make a note of Wallace's license plate. The local police force was able to use this information to arrest Wallace.
Wallace was charged with murder but was released on bail after Edward Clark arranged for two of Johnson's financial supporters, M. E. Ruby and Bill Carroll, to post bonds on behalf of the defendant. Johnson's attorney, John Cofer, also agreed to represent Wallace.
On 1st February, 1952, Wallace resigned from his government job in order to distance himself from Lyndon B. Johnson. His trial began seventeen days later. Wallace did not testify. Cofer admitted his client's guilt but claimed it was an act of revenge as Kinser had been sleeping with Wallace's wife.
The jury found Wallace guilty of" murder with malice afore-thought". Eleven of the jurors were for the death penalty. The twelfth argued for life imprisonment. Judge Charles O. Betts overruled the jury and announced a sentence of five years imprisonment. He suspended the sentence and Wallace was immediately freed.
According to Bill Adler of The Texas Observer, several of the jurors telephoned John Kinser's parents to apologize for agreeing to a "suspended sentence, but said they did so only because threats had been made against their families."
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Your thread details the murder of Kinser, but there is so much more.
"Another strange death occurred at the end of 1961. Johnson's sister Josefa attended a Christmas Eve party at the LBJ ranch, returned to her home in nearby Fredericksburg, and died during the night, supposedly of a cerebral hemorrhage. Despite state law, no autopsy was conducted. Billy Sol Estes later stated that Wallace murdered her. 2/" (see page 167, Blood, Money & Power)
Johnson's sister, following her divorce, led a somewhat provocative life. She was deemed to be a threat to Johnson because of her loose lips. This book details how any perceived threat to Johnson's future would be eradicated, and his sister knew a lot....
The sentence of a court in Wallace's trial for Doug Kinser's murder is reproduced in McClellan's book at "Pictures and Documents: 16.
But Kinser was just another one of many of Johnson's victims. Henry H. Marshall refused to shut down at the USDA an investigation pertaining to Estes, which would expose Johnson's corruption and probably end his career.
At "Pictures and Documents: 30, is a reproduced copy of a grand jury's findings in 1984:
"Based on the testimony presented today, which was not presented in to the previous grand jury, it is the decision of this grand jury, that Henry H. Marshall's death was a homicide, not suicide. The parties named as participants in the offense are deceased, and therefore it is not possible for the grand jury to return an indictment." The findings were signed on March 20, 1984. The "parties" were Johnson, Carter and Wallace.
This book is amazing in its detail chronicling Johnson's life and career, as well as that of others who participated in the corruption and crime revolving around LBJ.
Sam
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Originally published March 18, 1968:
ARGO: Why is the truth behind the assassination of President Kennedy the last chance of America for its survival?
SAHL: Because the evidence developed by District Attorney Garrison indicates that certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours. In other words, as Richard Starnes of the New York World-Telegram said, the shots in Dallas were the opening shots of World War III. There's been a great change in this country since Kennedy. I'm afraid a great deal of our hope was interred with his remains.
CONTINUED...
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mort%20Sahl/Mort%20Sahl%20-%20Argo.html
This is a man: Mort Sahl was and is unafraid to tell the truth -- even when doing so cost him his livelihood.
Of course, the truth we've learned and the history we've lived since then only support Mort Sahl.
Raksha
(7,167 posts)both by subsequent research in the years since that interview, and most of all by the history we've lived.
Re "Of course, the truth we've learned and the history we've lived since then only support Mort Sahl."
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)"Following Kennedy's assassination in 1963, Sahl's interest in who was behind it was so great that he became a deputized member of New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison's team to investigate the murder.[2] As a result, Sahl's comedy began to reflect his politics and included readings and commentary on the Warren Commission Report. His earlier anti-Kennedy jokes and his onstage tirades against the Warren Commission alienated much of his audience. He was effectively blacklisted and his shows were cancelled. Sahl's income dropped from US$1 million to US$19,000 a year. (According to the Inflation Calculator of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $19,000 in 1964 was the equivalent of $134,000 in 2008.) However, the rising tide of counterculture fueled his comeback.
In the 1988 presidential election, Sahl was the most prominent supporter of unsuccessful candidate Alexander Haig.[3]"
From Wiki.
Wow, a deputy for Jim Garrison too. I bet that made him feel important.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)There aren't many bigger jobs than trying to find the killers of the head of government. Why you find that a source of ridicule is your business, not mine.
As for Sahl supporting Haig: Big deal. He can support who he wants. What matters to me is he supported John F. Kennedy -- before and after his assassination -- and stood up in public to say so.
From what I remember, Sahl thought Haig had the sand needed to clean out the Washington-on-the-Potomac swamp, or cesspool, for those who think there's an important difference.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)I'm flattered and Ifeel important now. Thanks!
Yeah, so umm. You, Sahl, Haig, Castro, where will it end Octa? Deepthroat? (The porno, not the whistle blower.)
The sand needed to clean out Washington? Yeah, that's what Ron Paul says too.
You're so-called job is a middle-class hobby.
I actually read, write, and teach history for a living. My standards of proof are very high and, so far, your cut and paste has failed to convince me of a conspiracy that exists anywhere other than in your head. But carry on. Mort Sahl was a pleasant surprise and I agree with Woody Allen's assessment of Mort as the Charlie Parker of stand-up, but not so much with his conspiracy woo. I'm always learning from these threads. You, on the other hand, not so much.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)You must be impotent.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)That's corny and not even funny. What else you got? Did you campaign for the nuclear warmonger General Haig for President too?
"However, authors Len Colodny and Robert Gettlin were highly critical of much of Haig's behind-the-scenes work as Nixon's chief of staff in their 1991 book Silent Coup: The Removal of a President. They described several episodes where Haig misled the president and others, particularly those surrounding the court battles over Nixon's White House tape recordings, and Ford's eventual pardon of Nixon in September 1974. Having conducted dozens of interviews of key participants, including Gerald Ford, Robert Hartmann, H.R. Haldeman, John Ehrlichman, John Mitchell, John Dean, Alexander Butterfield, Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein, Samuel Dash, Seymour Hersh, Jeb Magruder, Gordon Liddy, Herbert Kalmbach, Robert Bork, and many others, as well as researching Congressional proceedings and a wide variety of contemporary news sources, the two authors were able to find many inconsistencies in what Haig claimed he had done. Haig refused to be interviewed for this book. Colodny and Gettlin stated that on several occasions, Haig seemed more concerned with shielding himself from investigation than in helping Nixon. Colodny and Gettlin also presented the most thorough explanation and analysis which had been seen, up to that time, of the so-called Moorer-Radford military espionage affair, an episode where Haig played a key role; several key documents from this matter wound up being hidden from public view, perhaps permanently, among Nixon's presidential papers.[12]
Haig caused some alarm with his suggestion that a "nuclear warning shot" in Europe might be effective in deterring the Soviet Union.[22] His tenure as Secretary of State was often characterized by his clashes with the Defense Secretary, Caspar Weinberger.
Secretary of State Haig, who repeatedly had difficulty with various members of the Reagan administration during his year-and-a-half in office, decided to resign his post on June 25.[23]
President Reagan accepted Haig's resignation from State on July 5, 1982.[24] Haig was succeeded by George P. Shultz, who was confirmed on July 16, 1982.[25]
From Wiki
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)digging into the hidden govt. archives of wikipedia
Ran Paul does the same
woops I used that slur which you used to others.
Tell your students to read Howard Zinn
but I guess you never will.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Again.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)But since it ain't, I don't. At any rate, it is a bit of shit to take from someone who cannot seem to find the shift key.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You're it's a tell.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4102632
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)It is a tactic of my misinformationist strategy.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)And the fact the history profession by and large considers those obsessed with a JFK conspiracy as buffs and soon they will be regarded as quaint artifacts of the past.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)As for giving attention to your post, that's the point. Your words show you standing on the wrong side of history. Your post also shows what kind of person you are.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Have you ever figured out if LHO was the hero in all this yet?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672
Its baffling that from my words on an internet forum dedicated to politics, over one topic, you can tell what kind of person I am and you still have been unable to solve that mystery.
That says more about you than me.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)So, when was Lee Harvey Oswald convicted of a crime? The guy died in police custody before he could say much of anything, other than: "I'm a patsy."
That's the term used to describe the fall guy in a criminal conspiracy. Odd thing, the national press didn't follow up much on Oswald's final statements and activities, otherwise they'd have found:
1. Oswald tried to place a telephone call to John Hurt, an active-duty U.S. Army intelligence officer, but was prevented by authorities from completing the call.
2. Oswald wanted to telephone John Abt, a relatively obscure attorney known for defending criminal conspiracies.
3. Oswald had no nitrates on his face, which would've have been present had he fired a rifle.
4. The Chicago plot on the life of President John F. Kennedy was broken up, in part, by a tip from a man named "Lee."
5. The FBI Dallas office destroyed a note written by Oswald minutes after his death.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...Though probably not the same one, I watched the TV film Challenger last night, starring John Hurt, and was struck by all too familiar dynamics of the Cover-Up and couldn't help but think of the importance of your, sometimes 'thank-less' work, in exposing the elements of "cover-up" in the Kennedy assassination.
Mort Sahl was one of the counter-culture hero's of the day and along with Lenny Bruce and the Smothers Brothers, they suffered the consequences of speaking the truth. Like the "Challenger" disaster, people were convinced to overlook evidence of a level of decision-making far removed from the government.
As always: Keep up the Good Work!
.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Dr. Grover B. Proctor, Jr.
Combined from two articles published in Spectator Magazine
July 17 and 24, 1980
One of the most interesting and potentially important aspects of the John Kennedy assassination may not have anything to do with the murder itself. A story concerning the actions of the accused assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, has simmered on the back burner of the investigation since its discovery ten years ago, and is considered by leading assassination authorities to be a key in the unsolved mystery.
Oswald's movements and statements inside the Dallas jail up to the time of his murder have always been a huge mystery, and any clues to what happened during that time are vigorously sought by all researchers. So when a story surfaced that Oswald attempted to place a call from the jail to a person whose name had not otherwise entered the assassination investigation, it was big news.
In short, it is alleged that Oswald attempted to place a call to a John Hurt in Raleigh, North Carolina on Saturday evening, November 23, 1963, but was mysteriously prevented from completing the call. Though there is speculation that the call was incoming rather than outgoing (for example, a crank call to the jail from someone by that name), private and Congressional researchers believe Oswald, for whatever reasons, was the one attempting the call. The implications of that call have prompted former U.S. Intelligence officials to speculate on Oswald's possible link with intelligence agencies.
How We Know What We Know
On the night of November 23, 1963, two telephone operators were working the switchboard that controlled, among other Dallas municipal offices, the jail. One of the ladies, Mrs. Alveeta A. Treon, made a statement concerning the events of that night to assassination researcher and attorney Bernard Fensterwald some five years after the assassination, but then refused to sign it on advice from her lawyer, according to Fensterwald. The following is a condensation of that statement:
Mrs. Treon arrived for work at the switchboard between 10:15 and 10:35 that evening, and was told by her fellow worker, Mrs. Louise Swinney, that their supervisor had asked them to assist law enforcement officials to listen to a call that Lee Harvey Oswald would be making soon. Two men, that Mrs. Treon thinks might have been Secret Service agents, subsequently came into the switchboard area and were put in an adjacent room where they could monitor the expected call.
At about 10:45, the call from the jail came through, and both ladies rushed to take it. Mrs. Swinney handled the call, as it turned out; wrote down the information on the number Oswald wished to reach; and notified the two men of the call. Quoting from Mrs. Treon's statement: "I was dumbfounded at what happened next. Mrs. Swinney opened the key to Oswald and told him, 'I'm sorry, the number doesn't answer.' She then unplugged and disconnected Oswald without ever really trying to put the call through. A few moments later, Mrs. Swinney tore the page off her notation pad and threw it into the wastepaper basket."
After Mrs. Swinney left work at approximately 11:00 p.m., Mrs. Treon retrieved the piece of paper, and copied the information from it onto a telephone slip commonly used by the operators to record calls, so that she could keep it as a "souvenir."
Phone slipThat slip, which would turn up seven years later in a Freedom of Information suit brought by Chicago researcher Sherman H. Skolnick (a civil action filed in Federal District Court in Chicago, April 6, 1970, No. 70C 790), contains some startling things. It purports to show a collect call attempted from the jail by Lee Harvey Oswald to a John Hurt at 919-834-7430 and it gives another telephone number in the 919 Area Code, 833-1253. (The slip is reproduced in the Appendix of the 1975 book, Coup d'Etat in America by Canfield and Weberman, the first major work to deal with the "Raleigh call" and its implications for Oswald's links to intelligence agencies.)
What do we know about those two telephone numbers? The House Assassinations Committee gave one of its staffers, Surell Brady, reponsibility for investigating the "Raleigh Call." Though the committee's final report did not mention the call, Brady wrote a 28-page internal memorandum outling the results of their investigation of the incident.
In an insert after page 15 of the document, it is incorrectly reported that the two numbers listed on the telephone slip "were unpublished in 1963." This information was reported as having been supplied by Carolyn Rabon of Southern Bell Telephone Co. in 1978. However, a simple check of the December, 1962 Southern Bell telephone directory for Raleigh, North Carolina (which would have been current at the time of the assassination) and the December, 1963 directory (which would contain any new information and reflect any changes of listing status) shows that both numbers were published.
CONTINUED...
http://www.groverproctor.us/jfk/jfk80.html
PS: Thank you for the kind words, CanSocDem. The good doctor, and too many like him, has been hounded -- professionally -- in his work and private life for writing that Oswald was not alone. Ending his research and writing into the assassination of President Kennedy, he has moved from academia into the self-employed sector. Seems if Oswald was a lone nut, people would be able to say that without fear of retribution.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)1. LHO owned the rifle used to kill JFK.
2. LHO owned the pistol that killed Tippit.
3. LHO's palmprints were found on the rifle.
4. LHO was positively identified by a witness as the man firing the rifle.
5. No other bullet, or bullet fragment other than those that came from LHO's rifle have ever been found.
6. LHO is the only employee to leave the TSBD building after the shooting.
7. LHO was seen practicing dry firing the rifle over and over in the months prior to the shooting.
8. LHO admitted to his wife that he tried to assassinate General Walker
9. LHO's finger prints and shirt fibers were found on the "curtain rod" bag he used to transport the rifle.
10. LHO was a certified marksman with 8 to 11 seconds to fire the fatal shots at JFK.
So is LHO a hero or not?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Raksha
(7,167 posts)I know a retired history professor on another forum who suffers from the worst cognitive dissonance I've ever seen. He is quite capable of wasting incredible amounts of everyone's time arguing over points he simply refuses to understand.
History professors have their blind spots and biases just like everyone else.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)And the lack of personal attack.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)A rebel from the south?
Midway?
I find that interesting. that someone would call themselves that but others never really 'stopped' bush or were warriors for pretzels against the establishment in any of their posts.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)An thanks for taking the time to contemplate the syllogism and semiotics of my DU screen name. Even more flattery. You guys just do not know when to quit.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)In the venue of American history? We would all like to know..... Put it in Civil war terms please.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Seriously. All of you.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)and in what part of the country?
You don't need to give me a state
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)As fuck. That you would want to know personal information about me. Why does that matter to you?
Today, I guess I teach whatever grade and state you happen to be in.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)figures
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)The replies have me LOL.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)minds? That is precisely the kind of speech protected by the 1st Amendment.
Some interesting statements from him. He speaks for a majority of people.
Land of the Free. Another deception.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)He is a good example of how some people become obsessed with things to the point of detriment.
Nobody silenced him anymore than they silenced Jackie Mason.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have always had something to hide, without fail.
Thanks for your response, not surprising at all.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)If you call that censorship, fine. I call it show biz.
former9thward
(31,934 posts)Radicals being shut out of the entertainment industry -- that is just show biz. Is that what you teach your claimed "history students."
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)My gawd! Just where does this conspiracy thing end, children?
former9thward
(31,934 posts)You logic skills are so flawed I really pity if you are around real students.
solarhydrocan
(551 posts)"your a twoofer arn't ya"
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)political entities to stifle speech.
Sahl was on the right track and it appears he made some people with something to hide, very, very nervous.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts):
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I do know a little of the history of Blacklisting in the media and of entertainers who were blacklisted for their political views. Too bad you haven't delved into that history a little bit, you might see the potential for someone like Sahl becoming a target of it.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)you could probably write a book and sell it to an audience eager to buy it.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)interesting.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Did you notice the impressive use of smilies?
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)when I was growing up.
After he said the Warren commision was a lie
he went from making 1 million a year to 19 thousand.
He was the first intellectual political comedian and even gave Lenny Bruce his start.
He was blacklisted just like others were in the 50s but now it was that you said too much on what you saw, investigated and witnessed.
Archae
(46,300 posts)Not talent driven.
People lost their livelihoods based on if they flirted with being a "commie," or if they wouldn't name names of those HUAC and McCarthy claimed were commies.
HUAC went downhill after their chairman was shown to be so corrupt he stank on ice. (J. Parnell Thomas)
McCarthy destroyed himself, especially on Murrow's program and in the Army hearings.
"Red Channels," the publication that was touted to be *THE* authority on who was a commie in Hollywood and who wasn't, went down in flames during John Henry Faulk's lawsuit against them, their sloppy "research" and mistakes were exposed.
Mort Sahl wasn't on a political "blacklist," the word got around that he was simply BORING.
People went to see comedians to get a laugh.
Not be lectured about the comedian's pet politics or cause.
MinM
(2,650 posts)Johnny Carson took a public relations hit for the way he came off in that interview and Mort Sahl was never invited back to the Tonight Show. Which, given Carson's clout, also goes a long way to explain the backlash Sahl received.
Steve Allen, the original host of the Tonight Show, had another talk show at this time and invited both Jim Garrison and Mort Sahl on. Unfortunately, and most likely conveniently, Steve Allen also invited wingnut 'B-1' Bob Dornan on that panel. Dornan effectively derailed that interview and Mort Sahl's career had been pretty well derailed too.
Here's an excellent piece on Sahl from 9 years ago in January...
Sahl is one of my favourite undersung heroes of the Sixties, for having spent the capital of a successful career in the Quixotic pursuit of justice for the murderers of America.
From the cover of Time
to "conspiracy monger"
That strikes me as the trajectory of an honourable man.
There's an interview with Sahl a couple of months later in 1968, before the epochal one-two of Dr King and Robert Kennedy, that is as prophetic as anything I've read from that time:
ARGO: Why is the truth behind the assassination of President Kennedy the last chance of America for its survival?
SAHL: Because the evidence developed by District Attorney Garrison indicates that certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours...
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/01/heeeeres-justice.html
MinM
(2,650 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)In a society that is apathetic about justice, it is extremely difficult to have a conscience and to feel a duty to insist on it.
It speaks volumes about this one that a citizen has to remain silent when they have questions about events as huge as this one, or suffer extreme consequences.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Integrity.
MortSahlFan
(55 posts)And he's always fresh... I had to go to SF to meet him on 3-4 occasions. He was nice enough to exchange my work for his, with signatures, but also a very sincere, and concerned conversation.
After one show, the producer left his phone on, and he's the same man off the stage. I remember him saying "Look what they're doing in America" and talking the entire time about how to make the show better. I never saw a man more dedicated to humanity, yet, taking ALL the risks when he was on top.
Remember, he was the first guy to really nail it to Joe McCarthy...
upi402
(16,854 posts)As long as we have the facade of a media, the people will stay fooled by propaganda.
I disagree with Archae. Throughout history, lambasting rulers has been the stuff of theater and humor.
I agree with Octafish;
" 'ARGO: Why is the truth behind the assassination of President Kennedy the last chance of America for its survival?
SAHL: Because the evidence developed by District Attorney Garrison indicates that certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours. In other words, as Richard Starnes of the New York World-Telegram said, the shots in Dallas were the opening shots of World War III. There's been a great change in this country since Kennedy. I'm afraid a great deal of our hope was interred with his remains.'
CONTINUED...
"http://www.maebrussell.com/Mort%20Sahl/Mort%20Sahl%20-%20Argo.html
This is a man: Mort Sahl was and is unafraid to tell the truth -- even when doing so cost him his livelihood.
Of course, the truth we've learned and the history we've lived since then only support Mort Sahl. "
Octafish
(55,745 posts)There's more to write on the Duquesne conference, including the media's role in America's incipient idiocracy.
"An agent told me: 'If you don't say, "Oswald did it," you're not going to get on television." -- Lisa Pease
Thank Moon and all his minions we have DU -- and thinking DUers.
dchill
(38,434 posts)MinM
(2,650 posts)"My Grandfather Came from Lithuania--Though Lou Dobbs Tried to Stop Him"
Mort Sahl's Punchline
By PAUL KRASSNER
On May 11, 2007, Mort Sahl turned eighty. He was a pioneer in stand-up comedy. He broke through the tradition of jokes about airplane food, Asian drivers, booze and frigid wives, instead sharing his wit and insights about political hypocrisy, racism, marijuana laws and monogamy. I first met Sahl in 1953 when he was a guest speaker in a course I was taking at the New School for Social Research. I was inspired by his satirical approach to serious issues.
"Every word I do is improvised," he once told me. "I don't rehearse anything. I start it on stage."
In the beginning, though, he would write key words on a rolled-up newspaper, which became his trademark prop. In 1960 he wrote jokes for presidential candidate John Kennedy, and Sahl's picture graced the cover of Time magazine in August during the conventions. When Kennedy was killed in 1963, Sahl endangered his career and was blacklisted as a result of becoming an associate of New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison in his investigation of the JFK assassination...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/08/25/mort-sahl-s-punchline/
upi402
(16,854 posts)To all you with the guns out there. You may be able to slay the dreamer, but you havent slain the dream.
-Bobby Kennedy
(from your link)
Thanks!
DumpTrump20202020
(109 posts)Not only an amazing interview, but a nice thread overall!