NYT: Life on $7.25 an Hour

[marmar]

Life on $7.25 an Hour
Older Workers Are Increasingly Entering Fast-Food Industry

By ALAN FEUER
Published: November 28, 2013


(NYT) On a recent Friday evening, Eduardo Shoy left work at 6 p.m. Mr. Shoy, a deliveryman for KFC and Pizza Hut, was coming off an eight-hour shift of driving three-cheese pies and crispy chicken fingers, in an automotive blur, to private homes and businesses in central Queens.

Now it was the weekend and he was headed home. He parked his car in the little alley lot behind his house and, passing through the door, he kicked his shoes off, donned a pair of slippers and prepared a mug of tea. He sat down with his television set and ate the box of chicken he had brought back from the restaurant. Within an hour, remote control beside him, still dressed in his uniform, he had drifted off to sleep.

If Mr. Shoy were differently employed, he might have remained that way till morning. But as a fast-food worker paid the minimum wage — $7.25 an hour in New York — he didn’t have the luxury. At 10 p.m., he was up again and back in his car, this time driving to his second job, as a forklift operator at Kennedy International Airport, where he makes $13 an hour. Having worked all day, he was about to work all night: from 11 p.m. until 7:30 a.m. At 3 that afternoon, he would return to his deliveries at the restaurant. Then, at 11, he would once again drive to the airport.

Altogether, on the weekend before Thanksgiving, Mr. Shoy would sleep for 13 hours and work for 44. “Tired?” he asked, sounding puzzled by the question. “I’m too busy to be tired.” ....................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/nyregion/older-workers-are-increasingly-entering-fast-food-industry.html?hp&_r=0

[daleanime]

1. Made better....

by getting less then 30 hours a week.

[penultimate]

17. It says he is making $43,000/yr

Which means that with an average wage of 10.125 between the two jobs, he is working at least something close to 80hrs a week.

(7.25 + 13) / 2 = $10.125
43,000 / 52 / 10.125 = 81.67hrs a week.

Although he probably gets tips and might make a slight profit from gas mileage at his his pizza delivery job, but I think that would end meaning he makes like five-thousand-something dollars a year in tips to make your statement true. My maths could be wrong though...

[daleanime]

34. I am referring to the cut in hours that many minum wage workers are getting...

instead of 40 hour a week its now 30.

[sweetapogee]

41. The NYT article linked at the OP

states that Mr. Shoy made $22.00 when he bought his $500K home, his wife worked as a server. At $22.00/hr., his base pay was around $45K/year when he purchased the home in 2003.

Being math challanged as I am, could someone please explain to me how the Shoy's were approved for a mortgage of that size and how the Shoy's determined that they could afford such a domicile?

My partner and I have a combined income of considerably more than what theirs was in good times. At around the same time frame (2004) we sold our home in NJ (that we had for 19 years) and purchased a new place in PA. Because of the sale of our NJ house we were able to put a big downpayment towards our place which cost $140K. Our income stream has since been uninterupted and our income is higher now but even with a mortgage of around $90K it is at times tight at the end of the month. There has never been 1 minute in the last 10 years when I thought that we messed up by not buying a more expensive house, I'm actually glad we had the disclipline to hold it to $140K.

If someone makes six figures and puts 20% down on a $500K home, the principal payment on the note will be around $1800.00/month for 30 years 3.5% and not including taxes, insurance and escrow. Then there are utilities, food, transportation, clothing, cable tv, entertainment. I think such a borrower would be hard pressed to make it if their salary was $100K. Before taxes, Mr. Shoy made much less, about $3500./month, out of that $1800.00 went to principal/interest on his bank note.

I'm not trying to run salt into someone's bad luck, just trying to understanding the economics. My partner and I, using the Shoy model, should be able to purchase another home in the $140K range as a investment so I look forward to finding out how it's done. BTW, 140K will buy a lot of house here in PA and with 2 houses worth a total $280K we will be at half the Shoy purchase price so this should be possible. All I need is help understanding how it is done.

[LisaL]

2. He has a house purchased for half a million.

Which he clearly needs to sell.

[smokey nj]

3. Read further, he's trying to.

[meaculpa2011]

4. In 2003 $500,000 bought a modest...

home in that section of Queens.

Today it's probably worth considerably less.

[Egalitarian Thug]

5. Which he clearly cannot. Of course, it is also true that he should never

have been allowed to take on half a million in debt, but was in order for the rich keep getting richer instead of paying the consequences for their actions over the preceding decade or two.

Even in the good times his household income didn't break 6 figures and he has two kids as well. A half million dollar loan makes no sense at all except when you know that you will not hold any risk when the inevitable happens. He was one of the millions of suckers that were conned out of their life's work.

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. When houses were going up in value by $25,000 to $100,000 a year or more....

It was easy to rationalize overextending to buy one, to the point where it could have seemed foolish NOT to do so under the circumstance if the option was available.

Yes of course there was risk involved and that risk caught up to millions of folks. But what other ways were there for many working Americans to significantly grow their savings for their retirement years other than to "invest" in home equity? Ask their boss for a raise? We live in a society where those who have money routinely make more money by leveraging it, creating new "income" at levels that the sweat of labor can not possibly achieve. For many of the rest of us the deteriorating labor market has been an accelerating dead end for decades. Everyone knew stories about people who stretched and bought a house they barely could afford if that, only to see it then double in value in three years. Getting a 20% raise in pay is almost unheard of in recent years, but even on a $50,000 a year salary, that's only $10,000 more per year before taxes. Between the late 90's to late 2008 or so homes routinely went up in value by multiples of that. Yes it became a trap for millions, but millions more survived off of the "income" second mortgages provided based on the soaring equity of their houses during thats decade. Desperate times invite desperate measures, and wage stagnation has been the norm for decades, if not worse.

Some, millions even, won that gamble also. I used to live in California and tens of thousands of people cashed out of their homes at huge profits between 2004 and 2008 and moved to states where housing was cheaper. But home is often more than just a place to live, it is a web of connections and emotional ties. Many people resist having to move in order to survive.

[Egalitarian Thug]

29. You've perfectly described the desired perception of the game.

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2013, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

The "values" of the houses were going up because of the legalized financial crimes that were made legal so that the parasites wouldn't have to take the losses they created in the financial markets. There never were real market forces (demand outstripping supply) driving the prices up, the prices were driven up by the prospect of collecting fees and leveraging the debt created by the transaction.

Tens of millions more losers were made in The Greatest Robbery in History than won even a little bit and literally everybody that still earns a paycheck, or will for decades to come, be paying off the winners... unless there is another collapse... the game isn't over...

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Very True

But while looking at the actions of ordinary individuals who got caught up in it I think it important to reflect on that phrase, "desperate times call for desperate measures". I actually bought a house I couldn't afford once in California. I did so at a time when skyrocketing rents were approaching the point where I couldn't afford those either. For complex personal and interpersonal reasons that I won't go into here, it wasn't an option to uproot my life to move anywhere significantly cheaper in what was then the near future. This fortunately was in 1998, and I was astute enough to recognize that the small (825 square feet) home in question seemed slightly under priced for the then market and had probable upside potential (it was in a beach town).

I sold it three 1/2 years later and moved across the country when it then was more viable for me to make that move. I had already taken out a second loan on that house and I could not have remained there for 6 more months even if I wanted to, but that purchase A) bought me the time I needed and B) went up enough in value that I came out ahead after repaying the first and second mortgage plus some loans friends made me to help me buy that first house initially. The profit paid for my moving costs, a significant upgrade on a used car, and let me put down a 40% deposit on a much cheaper somewhat larger house in upstate New York, with a 15 rather than 30 year remaining mortgage at half the cost of my two prior mortgages combined.

I wasn't eager to play that real estate game in the first place, but all of my other options were fast eroding. Had I not made a play then they would have eroded even faster. I knew it was a gamble but standing pat looked like a clearly losing hand. I was almost 50 at the time. My point is that when the deck is rigged against you there usually are few if any "good" options left. Think of the classic scenario of someone who shoplifts food to feed a hungry child. Maybe there was another way out open to them, maybe not, but it is hard to always act in the most ideal rational manner under that type of stress. People grab at straws when they are floundering in water over their heads, and that is what the shift of assets in America away from the 99% to the 1% over the last 40 years has led to.

Hard working Americans shouldn't need two jobs to survive, they shouldn't need two jobs to secure decent housing in their home community either., and they damn well shouldn't fall short of that goal when they are working two jobs. And how the hell is anyone supposed to save for their retirement under conditions like these?

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. That clearly misses the point, though yes he probably is forced to sell it

There are no inexpensive houses in Queens that one can buy. It's not like he is trying to live in some upscale trendy neighborhood in a house with 4 bathrooms and a swimming pool. This is a man who is working two jobs who can't afford to own even a modest home in the city where he resides and is employed. He is working hard and falling behind, it is the worsening condition of the middle class in America.

[LisaL]

7. For 500 k, one can buy a great house in other states.

[LiberalElite]

8. It would probably buy a palace

in Bangladesh. What's your point?

[LisaL]

9. If I were him, I'd sell the house and move.

So I don't have to kill myself by working however many hours per day he seems to be working.

[smokey nj]

10. Read further - he's trying to.

[penultimate]

15. Ever sold a house? I never have, but I've been around people selling their homes

and it's usually not just a matter of putting up a for sale sign in the front yard.

[LisaL]

16. Yes, a very cheap one and at a loss.

So?

[penultimate]

25. Selling his house at too much of a loss might put him in an even worse situation.

I'm having a hard time judging a guy working two crappy jobs at 80/hrs a week just so he can get by while trying to sell his expensive house at a price that won't sink him even deeper.

[LisaL]

27. Well, excuse me.

I didn't want to sell mine for less than what I bought it for. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

[penultimate]

31. And he may eventually come to a similar conclusion, or maybe he won't

He may also only have the options to sell it at a even higher loss than you sold yours. I hope he finds a buyer that is willing to purchase his home at a price that is satisfactory.

I don't think the point of this article was a "woe is me" type thing on his behalf, but rather to demonstrate that it's not just high school and college students working these minimum wage jobs.

[Coyotl]

20. Yes, I just put up a For Sale sign in the front yard, and three others nearby.

I wrote my own contract too. I had to show the place a few times and got my fixed price. No commission to a realtor.

[penultimate]

23. Do you work in reality or take courses for it?

I'm guessing at the very least you had to have read a few books on the subject. Sounds like something that would be require a good amount of research to do right. Which is great, everyone should probably be more educated in any sort of things like that.

[Coyotl]

39. Neither. I just did it. No books. I just read contracts online and edited to my need.

A great part of the work load is done by the title company. You hire them for the transfer even when a realtor sells for you. If your buyer is using credit, the bank requires title insurance.

[johnp3907]

43. Maybe some day you WILL be him.

Then you can report back here and tell us all how you made all the right decisions where he made the wrong ones.

[bettyellen]

24. what makes you think he's getting offers for 500K? the market tanked 4- 5 years ago and there

were literally no buyers. I tried to sell a "350K house" and offers were 200K and under, luckily I eventually found renters because selling these days is no easy thing these days. BTW, 350 K is a starter home, w 2 1BR apts, the type of investment young immigrant families typically used to make from the 40's till the turn of this century. The jobs aren't there for them to make ends meet and do that anymore.

[bettyellen]

26. and what do pizza delivery guys make in the boonies?

proportionately less. for a whole lot more driving.
it's not like you have a magic stable working class anywhere. At least in NYC, there are many potential employers.

[bettyellen]

19. you don't understand NYC real estate. and seem to begrudge him the house.

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2013, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh, I see you lost money on your much smaller real estate investment, so are thinking that is good enough for him too. WOW.
Now I get it.

[LisaL]

28. Rather clearly he can't afford it.

[bettyellen]

32. And you clearly couldn't afford one 1/5 of the value. Did you work 80 hours trying to keep it?

Or did you not bother since your loss would- proportionately - only be 1/5 as bad as his. Easier to write off, and not kill yourself trying to break even.

[LisaL]

33. It's not about me, is it? Even if minimal wage is increased, I very much doubt it will be increased

for a fast food employee to be able to afford a 500k house.
So I am very curious as to WTF do you think he should be doing here?
If he can't sell his house because it will be at a loss, what is it that he should be doing?
Do tell.

[bettyellen]

36. when he bought the house he and his wife had better jobs. he is old and trying to sell but

would stand to lose a LOT more than you even paid for your house. Your losses are not comparable. Even though you appear to bitterly wish everyone was in the same "boat" as you.
Too bad it may be impossible to keep as an investment because the market will climb back, and a speculator will profit instead of him. He is fortunate to be in NYC where he has a chance at ANY employment these days. Moving to a more isolated place with fewer jobs wouldn't help much.
No one should ever buy houses unless they have a guaranteed salary for the life of the mortgage I guess? That is what it works out to.

[LisaL]

38. When NYT publishes an article about me, we can discuss my house.

I was asked a question about selling a house, which I answered. I should have known this will turn into a personal attack.
I don't want him to do anything, I don't even know him.
I don't want anybody to be in the same boat as me.

[bettyellen]

40. we can discus your house because you brought it up for comparison, LOL.

and you suggested he move to a more depressed market for cheaper housing- where it is difficult to get one job- let alone two. And that he just take the loss- knowing it would be so much greater than your own total investment.
How helpful.

[LisaL]

44. Again, I don't want him to do anything. I don't know the guy.

If whatever he is doing is working for him, so be it.
Although he is working two jobs where lack of sleep could be dangerous.

[bettyellen]

47. you suggested he sell his house and move. your message - suck it up- was received.

[LisaL]

48. I am discussing his situation on a message board.

Any suggestions on how it can be improved are met with ridicule. What is it that you want me to post? Life is hard and then you die?

[abelenkpe]

35. You want him to sell his house at a loss?

what would he gain? He should move somewhere more affordable? Why? Because there are more job opportunities in less affluent areas? O wait. No there aren't. You are missing the point entirely. He's stuck.
You seem to be willing to blame the working poor for their situation stating he shouldn't have purchased such an expensive home. Where is the blame for the adjusters/bankers/realtors that were more than willing to sell such a home to millions of people like him during the housing boom?

[LisaL]

45. No, I don't want him to sell house at a loss.

I don't want him to do anything at all. Happy now?

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. Can someone help me make sense of the work hours in the article.?

In order of what was reported:
"he was coming off an 8 hour shift of food delivery, left work at 6 pm"
Which means he started that shift at 10 am, right?

Next, he is working night job from 11 pm to 7:30 am
but then it says "At 3 that afternoon, he would return to his deliveries at the restaurant"

So from 8 am till 3 pm, there is sleep time.
but the article says there is no sleep time because he works "8 hour shift" at food place.

I am not dissing the struggle to make enough money at 2 jobs ( been there, big time)
but really confused by the times given.

[proReality]

13. It could be that he doesn't necessarily work the same shift every day. n/t

[Agony]

14. I believe his weekday and weekend work schedule are different,

his weekend would appear to be 11pm friday to 7:30 am monday, 57 hrs total - 44 work/13 sleep as described in the article.

add the 35 weekday hrs makes the 70 plus hours he works a week... I guess I could do that if I had to, but what if you get sick?

[Agony]

12. "inserting the trope of the 1 percent into the national conversation"

“Confronting power more openly and publicly and directly,” he added, “that came straight from Occupy.”


yes, it did.

[Revanchist]

18. If they are going to do a story about those trying to survive on $7.25 an hour

They should of found someone who didn't also have a job that pays $13.00 an hour, in my mind it sort of defeats the purpose.

[bettyellen]

21. it is about fast food workers in NYC- and 1/3- 1/2 of them work second jobs, and many used to

have decent stable jobs. Wow.

[dem in texas]

30. It doesn't matter what state you live in

You cannot survive on $7.25. The repubs reverently talk about the "job creators", and now we see that the jobs they are creating are all minimum wage jobs. More older people are going into these jobs because the manufacturing and factory jobs are gone, either overseas or done by robots.

[xchrom]

46. du rec.