"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," - Reuters

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

I'm sure we'll hear the usual, "..a thorough invsestigation.." "We sincerely regret", "An unfortunate incident.." "Reparations will be made.." etc, etc, etc.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311

Western forces kill 16 civilians in Afghanistan: Kabul government

Western forces shot dead 16 civilians including nine children in southern Kandahar province on Sunday, Afghan officials said, in a rampage that witnesses said was carried out by American soldiers who were laughing and appeared drunk.

One Afghan father who said his children were killed in the shooting spree accused soldiers of later burning the bodies.

Witnesses told Reuters they saw a group of U.S. soldiers arrive at their village in Kandahar's Panjwayi district at around 2 am, enter homes and open fire.

Haji Samad said 11 of his relatives were killed in one house, including his children. Pictures showed blood-splattered walls where the children were killed."They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," a weeping Samad told Reuters at the scene.

[polly7]

1. Absolutely f"ing sickening. nt.

[Enrique]

2. I guess it wasn't a "rogue soldier"

that's what I heard this morning.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. more than one shooter???

Jesus!

[jsmirman]

4. I'd be careful with this one

as I said in another thread on the topic, at minimum, this must be a joint US-Afghan investigation/punishment/follow-up from start to finish.

I read this story, though, and it seems the Taliban may be taking an active hand in stretching the unspeakably horrible narrative to be something even worse.

I want a full investigation, but I'm not buying that it's more than one guy and that everything in that account is true without more information. It is certainly in the Taliban's interest for this to not be one soldier off on a gruesome rampage but instead a deliberate action by a group of laughing US troops.

The obvious interest the Taliban would have in that being the story should be enough to at least counsel patience in jumping to that sort of conclusion.

A joint US-Afghan involvement in every step that takes place from this point forward might help at least a little to lessen the sense that the US is trying to falsify whatever actually happened here.

[polly7]

6. why of course.

Because we all know what happens when service members are found responsible for murdering Afghan people ....

eta: what info are you basing your Taliban involvement on?

[jsmirman]

8. Which is why the Afghans need full access and involvement

in every step of any process.

You kind of habitually don't read what someone actually posts, no?

[JSnuffy]

12. Good points in there...

They will absolutely lie to make it worse than it is and exploit the situation to their advantage.

Still going to be a cluster@#$ no matter what.

[bvar22]

74. Gee, who else LIES about what happens in Afghanistan?

"They will absolutely lie to make it worse than it is and exploit the situation to their advantage."

Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, the toppling of the Saddam statue,... a thousand other propaganda releases from the war zones...anyone?

[chervilant]

75. Thank you so very much

for this rebuttal. Too many of our politicians du jour--regardless of party affiliation--are disingenuous. One might suspect that a significant number of the Hoi Polloi have become inured to propaganda...

[chervilant]

76. PS

I'm in the Ozarks, now.

[Art_from_Ark]

96. Hello, fellow Ozarkian

I'm NOT in the Ozarks now, but am looking forward to my next visit in the hopefully not-too-distant future

[chervilant]

97. Well, now,

you'll have to keep in touch and let me know when you'll be in this neck of the woods.

The forsythia are in full bloom, as are the daffodils. The tulip trees have begun to blossom, and the sarvis are wearing their delicate white garments. The red buds are vying with the forsythia, and I anticipate that lovely pale lime sheen that shimmers along the hillsides as Spring settles in the Ozarks.

The dogwoods will be opening soon. When I see those, I'll traipse through the deeper woods, looking for trillium and Sweet Betsy. If I'm lucky, I'll find Lady's Slipper and dogtooth violets.

It's so good to be home.

[Art_from_Ark]

99. Quite a nice poetic description of springtime in the Ozarks

Here's another:

"Where the roses are in bloom
And the sweet magnolia too
Where the jasmine is white
And the fields are violet blue..."

Ok, it was supposed to cover the entire state, but still...

By the way, are you anywhere near Benton County?

[Alcibiades]

79. How could it possibly be worse than what it seems?

16 civilians murdered in their sleep, including 9 children, by someone wearing a US uniform.

[Larry Ogg]

81. I guess it would have been worse if the murder victims were...

White innocent civilized defenseless freedom loving democracy spreading American Christians just out having a little fun.

At which time the American military would have no choice but to retaliate by nuking Iran and thus pissing off Russia.

aside, I must sadly report, I have met people who think this way.

[JSnuffy]

84. Just what it seems...

One lone guy with anger or potential mental issues is different than a drunken squad blasting through town.

[Selatius]

90. With due respect, I don't think that matters to Afghani civilians in the area.

The fact that even one perpetrator wore an American military uniform does devastating damage to the war effort as far as winning hearts and minds go.

[pipoman]

98. It makes a huge difference

in understanding and perception. The thought of one mentally deranged soldier doing this is bad. The thought of a group, all agreeing, and executing this would go to a more wide spread inclination to do such things would be honorific. You are right, it is devastatingly damaging, but very important to know it is an isolated case of a single demented person.

[sad sally]

85. Here's more to add to the mission of destruction of the Afghan people

An airstrike by Nato-led forces in north-eastern Afghanistan killed three civilians and injured two others, a local police chief said on Saturday.

The incident took place in the Tagab district of Kapisa Province on Friday evening when five residents sitting in a garden were attacked by helicopters, Abdul Jalil, the district police chief said.

He said the Nato-led International Security Assistance Forces mistook them for insurgents and fired on the group.

Two shopkeepers were killed on the spot and three others were injured.

"One of the injured elderly man died in the hospital later from the wounds he sustained during the airstrike," Jalil said.

http://www.brecorder.com/general-news/172/1163612/

[Enrique]

36. also be careful with the official story as told by our military officials

the Pentagon has its own interests, as well as a record of making shit up.

[sad sally]

37. The Pentagon nor any President has ever lied to us or fed bogus stories to the news media, right?

[jsmirman]

43. Absolutely

I just view both groups as equally likely to not tell the truth here.

I don't know if there's a joint commission that could actually garner confidence - that may or may not be realistic.

I'm hoping, though, that this would be a real option and one that is advanced.

[bvar22]

82. Maybe there is video tape?

...and somebody could make it public?

Ask Bradley Manning what would happen next.

[kenny blankenship]

46. Indeed! They admit that they will intentionally lie to the public

in order to win the "info war" against us, and to achieve "full spectrum dominance".

But by admitting that they engage in premeditated deception against public opinion, they have become the most honest branch/organ of our government. The other ones maintain the pretense of integrity.

[rhett o rick]

47. Right. Careful like with the helecopter pilots that killed the journalists. We were sooooo

careful no one ever got charged other than the one that exposed the murders.

[jsmirman]

48. More like careful like not making our minds up w/in 24 hrs.

a) I think it's clear from what I posted in this thread that I don't think any sort of investigation only handled by our government can possibly be acceptable and

b) do you really think I'm a "trust everything we are told" sort? Really?

This is not exactly my first post on this board.

[rhett o rick]

51. Maybe I misunderstood. You seem to want to make sure we dont

jump too early to conclusions that our soldiers killed some children brutally when it probably happens a lot that we never hear about.
I think you are worried about the wrong side on this. Plez show some humanity and think of the children that get brutally murdered by our soldiers.

[jsmirman]

53. Please stop being ridiculous

the question is was there one soldier or were there multiple soldiers.

That is the question we don't know the answer to and that we are sure as hell going to need more than 24 hours for to have anything even approaching the ability to say anything about that isn't reactionary, ill-informed, and ill-conceived.

To suggest that I don't care about the children that were brutally murdered is so despicable that one hardly knows how to respond.

And if you breezed through my posts and, in doing so, so thoroughly misunderstood what I have said here that you would be so casually despicable as to lob such an accusation, well that's pretty terrible, as well.

[rhett o rick]

55. Ok jake, let's talk about despicable. You think I am despicable. Well I think that our heavily armed

soldiers killing children is despicable and they get away with it. Maybe you dont agree and maybe you dont want to know. We must get the fuk out of their and stop killing children. Too many have gotten away with it. Seems to me you want to side with the soldiers. Maybe I am wrong, but it appears you want to call me despicable and I havent killed anyone.

[jsmirman]

58. I think you're way out there on this one

it's pointless for me to say much else.

[rhett o rick]

59. You called me despicable. I hope you have nothing more.

[jsmirman]

61. Are you mental? You said I didn't care about children being brutally murdered

I think saying that is despicable!

That's a pretty horrible thing to say about someone, particularly when you're blatantly wrong.

I think you need to step away from the computer for a little bit. You seem a little unhinged here, and I'm not trying to be a dick about it.

[rhett o rick]

73. I believe that it is more than likely that children are getting murdered

all the time over there and we never, ever hear about it because it gets white washed. And, sorry maybe i am mental, but "thorough investigation" and "we must be careful" sound like white wash code to me. I say error on the side of humanity for the children.

I remember Mai Lai and the white wash "thorough investigation".

[arely staircase]

52. well a bunch of kids have been murdered by

at least one american. the people who were actually there say there were more than one. i am more inclined to believe the eye-witnesses than to assume we are seeing the work of the taliban's awesome public relations machine. will the enemy exploit this for propaganda? hell yes. that one is easy. but to think that some taliban karl rove got down there and said "y'all say it was more than one" so quickly, and then all of the villagers - despite their genuine grief and shock - got on message, stretches the imagination.

[jsmirman]

54. But this is simply not accurate

but to think that some taliban karl rove got down there and said "y'all say it was more than one" so quickly, and then all of the villagers - despite their genuine grief and shock - got on message, stretches the imagination.

This is not what "all of the villagers" said.

Why must people make stuff up?

This is as ridiculous as simply buying whatever the heck the initial official statement is. You don't know, I don't know, and no one on this board has a clue right now as to what exactly happened. Frankly, quality skepticism is undermined by people making shit up.

Yes, the idea that the Taliban - in an area that they have been in control of for so many years - could possibly be able to quickly shape a responsive narrative is absurd.



Knee-jerk reactions in both directions - to believe or to disbelieve - are both ridiculous.

[arely staircase]

56. my only knee jerk reaction is that i think something sounds fishy

with the one guy story. sorry if i don't believe everything the pentagon says about such matters. that doesn't mean i automatically disbelieve them but given their track record and my suspicions regarding one guy methodically going house to house, then village to village, i am sceptical.

like i said, i have no doubt the enemy will exploit this for all it is worth. they aren't stupid. but as far as them "quickly shapi(ing) a narrative" it seems like an odd one to shape. if one were to exagerate it for propaganda one would make up something bigger than it was a few guys, not one.

[jsmirman]

57. They already have, according to CNN

"The Taliban has already said that the deaths were the result of a night raid by several soldiers and put the death toll at 50" - there have been accounts that work helicopters and an organized military operation into the mix.

Do you honestly think they have to do much at all to turn this story into something explosive and irreversibly damaging? Just that one soldier did these unspeakably horrible things is already probably enough. Adding anything to even the most basic story is like adding dynamite to dynamite.

I don't believe everything the Pentagon says about things like this either. I'm just going to wait a little longer than the first 24 hours to even figure out what my instincts tell me actually happened - to say nothing of trying to reach any actual conclusions. I don't know enough yet to make even marginally responsible statements regarding who I don't believe.

[arely staircase]

64. i think that proves (well, helps) my argument

now, given time to shape a narrative, the enemy has the death toll up to 50 victims and hellicopters. The two initial and contridictory reports were:

A. one guy did it all (the story of the pentagon who may be telling the truth or covering the fact they have a bigger problem on their hands)

or

B. Several american soldiers took part (the story of the eyewitnesses, who may be telling the truth or trying to embelish the horror to help the taliban with whom they may symapthise)

given the number of people killed and the fact that the people in group B were actually there, i lean toward their story.

[jsmirman]

65. Again, I believe trying to pick a story this early is pointless

but you do realize that there are many reports that say there are villagers who reported it was only one soldier, right? Are you aware of this, or did you miss this part of the current coverage?

You can say that only seeing one doesn't disprove there being multiple people, and that would be nominally correct, but I would think an *under report* of the number of people (saying it was just one) doing something as incredibly terrifying as shooting up your village and barging into homes to murder people is very unlikely.

There are two versions. There is support for both versions. If we give this more than 24 hours, there may be evidence that will make one version more likely than the other on the basis of evidence, not guessing.

For all we know, it will turn out to be multiple soldiers and the government will be forced to admit to this.

I can't go any further on this right now, I'm sorry. You seem really inclined to choose a version. I am inclined to wait.

[arely staircase]

67. no, i didn't know that there were eyewitness reports of it being just one guy

given that information i probably lean more to the one guy story - if the pentagon and some eyewitnesses have the same story. actually that makes me much more likely to believe it.

i was under the impression, after your last post there were three stories: the pentagon's (one guy), the taliban's (50 victims and helicopters), and the eyewitnesses (several guys). of those three, i would put my money on the third. but if the eyewitnesses have varying stories (as eyewitnesses tend to do) and one of the eyewitness story's matches up with one of the other two, that changes things.

we will wait and see.

good evening, and thank you for a logical discussion of an emotional topic.

[jsmirman]

69. Ok, I wasn't sure if you had seen that or not

glad to clear that up.

I definitely intend to follow this with a discerning eye toward trying to figure out what the hell exactly happened - I'm very interested to see if more information shakes out over these next few days (and horrified by the part of it that we already know happened).

I have to think that an effort by our government to handle this in a non-transparent process will be disastrous. I understand their initial statement about "tried under US law" - even though I find it unnecessarily aggressive - but the investigation, at a minimum, must be a joint effort. I will say that I have yet to hear words out of the US camp that seem to go any part of the way toward sufficiency.

Have a good night.

[rusty fender]

77. On the ground in Afghanistan, it doesn't matter

what any of us think. It only matters what the Afghanis think and know.

[limpyhobbler]

68. yes we have to let the locals see real justice.

Unfortunely it may not be possible. We probably can't turn the guilty party over to the locals. And I can't imagine anything short of that would work. There have been too many issues now. Burning korans, urinating on bodies, and now this. Our soldiers must be going nuts. I'm worried. Maybe they need to be rotated out or something. Or it's a discipline and mismanagement problem. Either way propects don't look to bright for the future success of the US in Afghanistan.

[jsmirman]

70. It's just as bad as it could be. Would a joint investigation

with full transparency allowed to the Afghan members of the investigation accomplish anything positive? I don't know. It seems like that has to be tried, at a minimum.

I'm as concerned as anyone that this is somehow going to end with a resolution that any Afghani won't find remotely acceptable. If that's what they have in mind, they better have a plan to pull all the troops out as close to concurrently as possible, declare our participation over, put our heads between our legs, and pray.

[limpyhobbler]

71. Yes it has to be tried,

It's not like we have a choice. But we've got a serious discipline problem (or something) over there. Three of these incidents in about a month?

Somebody needs to figure out the root cause of THAT. Is it a management issue that can be fixed, or is it beyond repair?

Does a General need to be fired maybe? We're stuck there for at least another year until after the election. So somebody has got to get a handle on the discipline issue.

The troops are over stressed or something. They need some kind of help. Whether that means just coming home I don't know, but it's not fair to just keep the same soldiers there year after year or on multiple tours. Too few people are bearing the brunt of the cost. They ought to be aloud to leave the military once their initial commitment is complete.

[MADem]

78. I am with you. I don't go for (forgive the expression) Shoot First, Ask Questions Later

assessments.

The "Crazy Drunkards" thesis does aid the Taliban, so they would be motivated to put out a story on those lines.

If they were really clever, they'd say it was a soldier from this nation, and another one from that one, and still another from a third country to spread the blame around.

I'll exercise patience and wait for the report. This was a terrible event, no matter who is responsible. That's really the important take-away from all this.

[OVERPAID01]

86. How republican of you,

Blame the vicitms, and point at terrorists/taliban as the blame and cause for the murders. I didn't see the taliban mentioned once in the article, just drunk soldiers.

[jsmirman]

88. How ridiculous of you

it should never be impossible to be reasonable or measured on this site.

And I don't even want to have a further conversation with you because you're apparently only interested in being ridiculous.

[Blue_Roses]

103. I understand what you're saying ...

and that's definitely something to think about. The Taliban have no qualms about stirring this up--in fact, they thrive on it. The more they can propagate it, the more support drummed up for retaliation. Definitely must be a US--Afghan investigation, not just for investigative purposes, but also, mending.

I hope this was one acting alone. The atrocity of this with just one is enough to make hurl. More...is unthinkable...Those people have been through enough. Poor children...I just hope for the truth.

[xchrom]

5. Fuck. Nt

[wendylaroux]

7. it's a wonder

We heard ANYTHING about this.

[xchrom]

15. This is...stunning. How awful it is.

& I very much see this as an American problem.

Falujah, Abu ghraib, this ... Something is very wrong w/ us.
& the depth of it shows up in moments like this.

[rhett o rick]

9. Who ever leaked this should be punished severly.

[gateley]

11. I know. I was thinking the same thing, that regardless if it turns out

to be one rogue soldier or a group of "merrymakers", this stuff HAS to be made public.

I was thinking that I'm glad this was leaked. I feel for all the military personnel over there, I can't imagine serving in a war, but not ALL the people engage in such horrific acts. Those that do need to be held accountable, and for those of us who AREN'T over there, we need to see how wars can poison minds and hearts.

So I guess I'm agreeing with the thingy.

[rhett o rick]

23. I agree, but there are some right here in river city that would just as soon

not know about reality. They cant handle it. They want to see Manning, Assange, and Anon, punished for revealing the emperor has no clothes.

[gateley]

39. Well, they're wrong, we're right.

[sad sally]

40. Some things never change...sad

Scooter Libby v. Bradley Manning
by SAUL LANDAU

After 9/11, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, a Yale graduate with a law degree from Columbia, and fellow neo cons plotted to twist and invent “intelligence” data to convince the public that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, so as to build a case for invading Iraq.
-----
A jury later convicted Libby of obstruction of justice and perjury around the case. A judge sentenced him to 30 months in prison, and fined him $250,000. Bush, months later, commuted his term. But no one got charged with plotting to distribute false information to lure the public to war. The New York Times had even helped the campaign by publishing the lies as news stories on its front page.
-----
Now look at Private Bradley Manning’s ordeal. He had access to and allegedly released — to Julian Assange of Wikileaks — hundreds of thousands of secret documents. These documents exposed not secrets vital to our enemy, but lies, corruption and crimes by US officials and those of other countries. Manning’s defense team stresses that what Wikileaks published wasn’t or shouldn’t have been secret.
-----
The 24 year-old Manning faces 22 charges, including “aiding the enemy.” If convicted, the government will call for life imprisonment, unless Manning implicates Julian Assange in the “conspiracy” to expose the “secret” sins of US national security. Members of the Icelandic Parliament have nominated Manning for a Nobel Peace Prize. Let’s help him win it – as a free man.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/09/scooter-libby-v-bradley-manning/

[phasma ex machina]

10. Eerily reminiscent of atrocities committed by London's Anglo empire against the French during the

Hundred Years War.

These days London rules a shadow Anglo-American empire. London does the scheming, America provides the muscle.

Humanity must evolve beyond London's male ego trip.

[bahrbearian]

13. What about Margret Thatcher? Male Ego? Could have been.

[phasma ex machina]

21. London's male ego trip eagerly embraces like minded Amazon butchers.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

27. Don't see any mention of London.

But I read this;

Afghan officials gave varying accounts of the number of shooters involved in the incident. Karzai's office released a statement quoting a villager as saying "American soldiers woke my family up and shot them in the face."

[phasma ex machina]

28. Look harder. You'll see City of London Corporation's bloody fingerprints all over the world.

[Aerows]

14. This is horrible

But to be honest? When I opened this I expected it to be about a Saturday night in Texas or Florida or, frankly anywhere in the US. This in no way diminishes what our men and women are doing in Afghanistan, but let's face it - this could be anyone's town now that we have meth and drugs polluting our towns.

Note that I'm not anti-MJ in the slightest - I'm anti-meth because that drug is a cancer.

[Pisces]

16. They need to speed up the end of this war. More atrocities will continue to happen.These

soldiers are messed up and need some therapy asap. Relations are worse than when the war began. How many more of
these stories do we need to hear before we realize this is a no win situation.

[Cali_Democrat]

60. Yup

More pressure needs to be applied to the Obama Administration to end the war in Afghanistan.

[Aerows]

17. Note that being drunk

Is an extreme offense, worse than smoking MJ in Muslim countries. It would have the same resonance if it was published here as "They were all high on crack, shooting at everyone".

Not that I think crack and alcohol are by any means harmless drugs. They aren't and both contribute to violence. You have to consider the source, though, because they are very anti-alcohol. Not that I blame them, but put it in context that there, one drink is an alcoholic.

[kenny blankenship]

18. Hopefully, this atrocity will mark the beginning of the end of the Oscalation

of the Occupation of Afghanistan. The Afghan Surgin' Safari will still be forever stupid and criminal, and a betrayal, but at long last it may be forced to a conclusion.

[Nancy Waterman]

19. All articles but this one say one soldier

And this says "one or more" and contests some accounts of several drunken soldiers.
So we shouldn't assume it is more than one at this point.

[Poll_Blind]

25. That's not accurate- interviews with the wounded and witnesses are...

...starting to come out now and some are indicating they witnessed multiple soldiers were involved.

This story kicked off with a sergeant turning himself in after walking back to base- which is why the story broke in such an unusual fashion. There is still an investigation to determine who else, if anyone, was involved in the slaughter. Again, some witnesses and wounded are claiming there were multiple soldiers firing.

PB

[Vanje]

20. What in God's name , are we doing in Afghanistan?

Whos interest can possibly be served?

[Aerows]

22. Best question anyone could ask

What are we doing there besides stirring a pile of shit to make it stink more.

[kenny blankenship]

24. Immeasurably cynical political ambitions are being served

but they may soon come to grief, and deservedly so.

[phasma ex machina]

26. America serves London's interest. London invaded then lost Afghanistan about a century ago.

London reckons it can use Jedi mind tricks to fool its tool America into subjugating Afghanistan for it. You see, in a right proper world every male, regardless of ethnicity, strives to become a better Englishman.

[Aerows]

30. It's probably easier to just say the Opium Trade

It's been a pile of shit that every empire has stirred in, and ours is taking it's turn to stir in it.

[phasma ex machina]

31. +1 Except it still seems like a City of London Corporation Anglo-American Empire (in that order).

[Aerows]

34. Well, yeah

And it never has had a good outcome when any of them do it, going back to Alexander the Great. Who wasn't British. Nor was it a good outcome for the Soviet Union, that certainly wasn't British. It's being a money drain on the US. Which, surprisingly, isn't British.

[phasma ex machina]

35. London controls 36% of the world's largest market (FX) while "superpower" America controls 18%.

The golden rule: he who owns the gold makes the rules.

The reason they call the City of London the richest square mile on earth:

The medieval, unaccountable Corporation of London is ripe for protest

It's the dark heart of Britain, the place where democracy goes to die, immensely powerful, equally unaccountable. But I doubt that one in 10 British people has any idea of what the Corporation of the City of London is and how it works. ...

The City of London is the only part of Britain over which parliament has no authority. In one respect at least the Corporation acts as the superior body: it imposes on the House of Commons a figure called the remembrancer: an official lobbyist who sits behind the Speaker's chair and ensures that, whatever our elected representatives might think, the City's rights and privileges are protected. The mayor of London's mandate stops at the boundaries of the Square Mile. There are, as if in a novel by China Miéville, two cities, one of which must unsee the other. ...

It has also made the effective regulation of global finance almost impossible. Shaxson shows how the absence of proper regulation in London allowed American banks to evade the rules set by their own government. AIG's wild trading might have taken place in the US, but the unit responsible was regulated in the City. Lehman Brothers couldn't get legal approval for its off-balance sheet transactions in Wall Street, so it used a London law firm instead. No wonder priests are resigning over the plans to evict the campers. The Church of England is not just working with Mammon; it's colluding with Babylon.

If you've ever dithered over the question of whether the UK needs a written constitution, dither no longer. Imagine the clauses required to preserve the status of the Corporation. "The City of London will remain outside the authority of parliament. Domestic and foreign banks will be permitted to vote as if they were human beings, and their votes will outnumber those cast by real people. Its elected officials will be chosen from people deemed acceptable by a group of medieval guilds.

[Mimosa]

101. Thanks, Phasma, for the info

As a lover of 19th-early 20th century English literature I was impressed by the references to fortunes made by employment in 'the City'.

[Junkdrawer]

32. "Military bases in an area of the world filled with strategic mineral resources"....

Excuse me. That's my cynical, arrogant side acting up again.

We're there to protect America and Afghan women from the several hundred Taliban.

Watch out Uganda. You and "Kony 2012" are next.

[Mimosa]

100. 'We' are there for the same reason the Russians were there: those mountains are rich in minerals

It's been known before this article was published.



http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-14/world/afghanistan.minerals_1_mineral-afghanistan-pentagon?_s=PM:WORLD

[lumpy]

29. The person or persons responsible for this atrocity should pay the extreme price no

matter what. This mustn't be swept under the rug like some other military killings have been whitewashed. No excuses can justify.

[Paper Roses]

33. How far we have fallen. n/t

[malaise]

38. So who came up with the official lies this morning

This stinks

[sad sally]

41. The NY Times was known for headlining fabricated news for Bush et al

[EFerrari]

49. Yes and they led the war on Wikileaks in the US media.

[onethatcares]

42. why are we there?

in the first place?

I'm just wondering aloud.

[certainot]

45. another thing to thank team limbaugh for

a pack of chickenhawks on radio lied us into a military action where a police action would have been better.

those 1000 coordinated radio stations with limbaugh as point man make reasoned rational debate impossible on national issues . and its now doing the groundwork for getting us into iran.

hundreds of thousands of civilians and US troops would not have died or been maimed without that chickenhawk limbaugh and his chickenhawk parrots repeating the rove/cheney talking points. many vets and their families can 'thank' rush.

it/he was instrumental in selling the lies to a large segment of the population, blaming 911 on sadam.

he was also instrumental in intimidating critics of the war who dared to speak out on MSM, just like he tried to intimidate sandra fluke. he led the shouts of "traitor!". he was instrumental selling us bush in the first place, and minimizing and intimidating his critics (dan rather for one).

he was instrumental in minimizing the effects of millions of protestors in the US and around the world who knew what was coming. he/they were louder. we should have taken teh protests to the radio stations, as OWS should be doing now.

he was instrumental enabling chickenhawk republican politicians and blue dogs get us into it, and intimidating dems who would have preferred alternatives and wanted to debate the issue longer.

and so on. IMO bush cheney rove would not have been able to take us into that disaster, with all those troops dying and being maimed, without limbaugh and spawn.

[Prometheus Bound]

92. The usual answer is that we're there for the Afghan people.

Don't try to figure that one out. My brain hurts when I try.

[certainot]

44. another tragic result of allowing 1000 coordinated radio stations to lie us into wars

[MichiganVote]

50. This shit needs to end now. Enough war. This is what u get for continued BS.

[kenny blankenship]

66. No, no! Don't end it on a "down" note!

There's an old rule in this business: Always leave them laughing.

Besides it's unAmerican to just let yourself be chased out of some place, no matter how far from home, and no matter how illegitimate or criminal your presence there may be.

No. We must fight on. Fight on to secure a "decent interval" between this low moment of shame and our final departure on our own terms. Terms which we shall call "victory" and "a great civilizing accomplishment!" when the opportune moment comes. We must fight on until at least our President's grand moral vision of getting reelected is realized. After that happens, the required decent interval will have elapsed, and the Taliban can slit the throats of whomsoever they wish. Then and only then shall we have peace with honor.

[MichiganVote]

89. The only thing with more BS from politicians than war is peace.

[quinnox]

62. shameful, this should be the impetus to

the US to withdraw our forces and hang our heads in shame as we pull all troops out of the region. If only. Come on Mr. President, do the right thing at last.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

63. It sure will be nice when Bush is no longer in the White House.

[jimlup]

72. So this report seems to conflict with the "lone gunman" story in the MSM

Was it a bunch of soldiers on a drunken killing spree or a lone insane soldier?

[Kablooie]

80. We'll never know the truth. Both sides will hide and embellish.

It's just horrible and I know justice will never prevail.

WE JUST NEED TO GET OUT OF THERE!

[cat lady-in-w8ing]

83. USA! USA! USA!

The President should have withdrawn ALL troops on 1/21/09, not ADDED them!

[Vincardog]

87. Who are you going to believe anonymous "senior U.S. defense official in Washington" or multiple

witnesses who were there?

There were conflicting reports of how many shooters were involved,
with U.S. officials asserting that a lone soldier was responsible,
in contrast to witnesses' accounts that several U.S. soldiers were present.

A senior U.S. defense official in Washington rejected witness accounts that several apparently drunk soldiers were involved. "Based on the preliminary information we have this account is flatly wrong," the official said. "We believe one U.S. service member acted alone, not a group of U.S. soldiers."

[w8liftinglady]

91. As this is debated, my son is preparing to go back on wednesday.

Send a positive vibe is way,if you can

His is another of the sides of the aftermath of war.

[joeybee12]

93. Well that sucks...

Good vibes coming his way.

[cherokeeprogressive]

94. Good vibes and metaphysical hugs coming to both of you.

[Mimosa]

102. Praying he will come home safe, sound and soon.

God bless him and you w8liftinglady.

[nanabugg]

95. The best reason for US to withdraw from Afghanistan as soon as possible. nt