Blackfish is finally on Netflix!

[CFLDem]

So I finally got to see what all the hubbub is about. Some observations:

1) The low point for me was when they took the calf away from its mother. I don't really think that was right and if I were in management I'd probably would've kept them together.

2) The main point that Tilikum is a whale driven to madness by his surroundings didn't really ring with me.

Orcas are called killer whales for a reason. They are opportunistic carnivores who have been known to eat whales, sea lions, sharks, and very rarely, moose. It stands to reason they might be interested in the occasional human.

3) Because of the above I don't really buy the naïve trainer line. There's always inherent danger in working with large carnivores and they had to have known that.

Also, part of me thinks that trainers should be allowed back in the water as long as they sign a waiver understanding this fact. People in this country do have a right to do stupid and dangerous things for money.

4) Morally speaking I am upset that the whales' living condition isn't as good as it could be. If I had vast wealth I would give them more room and work to improve the mistakes of the past.

That being said I am in no moral position to boycott SeaWorld on this point alone considering my attitude towards animal welfare in other areas.

Pigs are just as intelligent as whales and yet I don't boycott pork because of swines' infinitely worse conditions on pork farms. I love my bacon waaay too much to give it up.

When artificial meat becomes the norm, I will gladly eat it to reduce pigs suffering but as there is no cruelty free equivalent now, it is what it is.

5) Lastly, seeing this movie just makes me even more excited to see Tilikum this weekend. I will enjoy every bit of it guilt-free because I know some of the bad things don't outweigh all the good that I feel Sea World provides.

[flvegan]

1. (facepalm)

VVAR Forum lock aside, so do tell of these attitudes towards animal welfare? You've stipulated that taste trumps abuse no matter how "infinitely worse conditions" are.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. + a zillion.....

[Zorra]

5. I'll see your zillion and raise you a gazillion.

[CFLDem]

6. I've always loved animals since I was a kid.

I have 13 (mostly exotic) pets, including 2 adopted cats that I treat as my children. I also happened to marry a vet tech, volunteer at the local zoo, and donate to the ASPCA and Arbor Day foundation.

I think one of the highlights of life will be when I am finally able to adopt a dog or two from the shelter.

That being said, I'm a very practical person. I don't romanticize the food chain and understand that nature is red in tooth and claw.

I have no doubt pigs, bears, and orcas would put humans on factory farms if they could. And they would be right in doing so if they won the competitive energy war that is life.

That being said I choose practical ethical alternatives when available. I will gladly switch over to artificial meat once it becomes available.

But I just don't see the cruelty that others seem to see. I thought the film fell flat because of its all-too-obvious conclusion that mammal eating orcas sometimes attack humans.

I just don't feel that negatives outweigh the invaluable enviro-consciousness that SeaWorld does by providing practical connections to sea life to the general public.

[flvegan]

7. Congratulations. Can we get back to these "infinitely worse conditions" you spoke of

and don't care about?

I'm also very curious about your thoughts that "pigs, bears, and orcas would put humans on factory farms if they could" because that grounds them in ego, more specifically greed (that's the delight we humans are...but you know that, yum yum...infinitely worse conditions make bacon).

These practical connections to sea life...really? Care to share?

[CFLDem]

8. Why thank you

As for explanations:

1) Care to share any factory farm alternative meat at the local Walmart?

2) my attitude towards eating animals is that it is ok because it is a birthright humans won from the evolutionary arms race. I have no reason to doubt other animals would eat humans on a mass scale if they had won the race instead of us ( and desired human flesh).

As stated many times before, I feel I am only obligated to give up this birthright when a practical cruelty-free alternative exists (like artificial meat).

3) Seeing and touching sea life is the most effective way to raise eco-consciousness amongst the public since humans value these two types of sensational experiences above all others.

If we can touch/see something that means it exists, if it exists it attains importance in our lives, ergo Sea World and other zoological displays are the most effective ways of impressing the importance of wildlife conservation in the public mind.

IMO, these ecogroups would be best to not bite the imperfect hand that feeds them.

[flvegan]

11. So "infinitely worse conditions" is lost on you?

You posted it, I'm still wondering about it. Going to address it, ever?

The rest of what you said...yikes.

[CFLDem]

16. By infinitely worse

I mean the suffering that pigs face on a daily basis is much more severe than the worst day for the Orcas at Sea World.

I do not boycott factory farm bacon, so I have no moral ground to boycott Sea World on the basis of animal suffering.

[flvegan]

18. So then "animal welfare" are two words that when put together

are lost on you, right?

[Logical]

22. You again! nt

[NYC_SKP]

23. And the lord said "All the planet and all the animals are their for your pleasure, my children."

That's the vibe I'm getting.

Animals ain't shit.

Our pleasure > their health or happiness.

[CFLDem]

24. Nice checkmate

You must play chess.

[NYC_SKP]

2. I watched most of the CNN special. I now despice Jack Hanna.

The rationale that Orcas in captivity somehow serve to enlighten us is just bullshit and bunk, IMHO.

While that may have been true in the 50's and 60's, we now have the technology to observe and film them and distribute that to the public.

Orcas at Sea World are tortured and abused sad animals used for profit and little more.

I doubt that kids who visit the park walk away wanting to save the oceans.

[laundry_queen]

3. He was the absolute worst part of their after show special

I couldn't believe how disgusting he was. It was almost comical how even the host looked like he wanted to tell Jack Hanna to STFU. Talk about bought and paid for.

[CFLDem]

9. Sry

but video and books cannot replace seeing the real thing. Many people just aren't in the position to go on whale watching tours but anyone can go down to there local zoo.

Besides which message is more effective:

1) You should care about something you've never seen just because it's right.

Or

2) I really thought it was really fun watching those whales, and touching the stingrays, and going on the sea turtle ride.

In case you weren't paying attention, the answer is #2 because more people would feel obligated to reciprocate care to something that gave them something of value. In this case, a fun day at the sea park.

[NYC_SKP]

13. You're discounting the pain to the animals entirely. It's normal, you're a human chauvinist.

Chauvinism is the norm.

Even among our own species, groups of people have historically seen other groups as non-human or sub-human.

Others among us, however, don't believe that the educational impacts justify the miserable conditions these very large animals have to endure in captivity.

[CFLDem]

10. In fact I can provide a simpler example:

If you kill a pig, or even a million pigs, very few people care because they've never interacted with a live one. They are only familiar with the dead one on their plate so that is the most valuable part of a pig to them.

Now try to kill a dog. Everyone throws up their arms about it because who hasn't experienced the companionship a dog provides? Killing one seems cruel because that companionship is more valuable to most people than dog meat.

What Sea World does is turn sea life from fish sticks into companion animals in the public's mind.

[angstlessk]

14. Are you saying all sealife are just fishsticks for our enjoyment/food?

[NYC_SKP]

15. My Monterey Bay Aquarium teaches more about sea life than all the Sea Worlds combined...

without captive Orcas.

SAM: I recently saw a preview of Stan Minasian’s movie, “A Fall From Freedom”, which examines the captive killer whale industry (**see Note 2 below for more info). In the movie, Ric O’Barry, former animal trainer for the television show Flipper, is interviewed about how he would like to see marine parks evolve and change in the future.

O’Barry points out that the Monterey Bay Aquarium has 1.8 million visitors per year and manages to provide a highly educational experience for its guests without having any live whales on display.

Instead, the aquarium has life sized models of many different types of whales.

http://theorcaproject.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/exclusive-interview-former-seaworld-trainer-samantha-berg-2/

[CFLDem]

17. Oh yay models

[NYC_SKP]

19. Oh Yay Fucking Fucked Up Miserable Bent Dorsal Fin Cracked Toothed Killer Whales in pens.

So that mindless assholes can get splashed.

Not only do these shows not teach a goddamn thing...

....apparently they make the people who attend them less intelligent.

Sick Orcas:



Healthy Orca:




[font size=10]Yay.

[CFLDem]

21. Put them in a wave pool.

Just another part of the orca husbandry learning process.

[angstlessk]

12. Thank you...I had it on Amazon...to purchase..but I do Netflix

so it is now "free" for me

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. "Ya know...they call them killer whales...but you seem surprised when they pinned you down

to the bottom of the tank where you can't turn around...."

-Neko Case, "People Got A Lotta Nerve"

Neko Case for SeaWorld concert!