I've got a real problem with children being described as "spoiled rotten"

[tina tron]

I've heard people describe children as young as 2 or 3 as being spoiled rotten, what a horrible monicker to throw onto a little human being just entering this world. Think about those words. It's what you would use to describe some bad meat or milk in the refrigerator. Some thing that is spoiled and rotten is something that you throw in the trash.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. You obviously have not met some of the children I have.

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. I suppose "entitled, narcissistic and overindulged" might be better.

but it's probably beyond their reading level.

[laundry_queen]

52. overindulged maybe

but that's their parents' fault, not theirs.

Children are inherently narcissistic. It's a survival mechanism. Squeaky wheel with siblings and all that.

[Logical]

3. Lighten Up. n-t

[Liberal Veteran]

4. Really? Would "overindulged precious snowflake" work?

I'm sure "spoiled rotten" isn't exactly a real diagnosis, but honestly, some kids are indulged to the point that they are simply miserable to be around.

It is an idiomatic expression, nothing more.

[tina tron]

12. It's a demeaning put down

for a child that has no control over his/her environment. Something that will more than likely scar them for life. Tell me, would you ever look at a kid that young and call them a "miserable little shit". Look at the parents. They are to blame. But oh god forbid anybody be called out on their parenting skills, that's blasphemy.

[idwiyo]

19. 'Scar them for life'? Talk about hyperbole...

[CrispyQ]

48. +1! -nt

[Liberal Veteran]

26. Most of the time, parents are to blame, no argument there.

More often than not, you aren't going to have the opportunity to give a dissertation on poor parenting skills to a parent.

For the layperson, describing a child (or even an adult) as spoiled rotten is as much (if not more) an indictment of the parent or enabler as it is a description of the child's behavior.

The idiom is simply for brevity, not be taken as literally as something that has putrefied and needs to be flushed or discarded into the nearest midden heap.

Example: Rush Limbaugh is a pig. I don't mean he is an even-toed ungulate that can be turned into a tasty cured meat product for breakfast, but somehow you know right away the implied meaning of the statement.

[okaawhatever]

40. Saying a child is spoiled rotten is an insult to the parents. I don't think for a second they're

saying the kid developed this behavior on their own, it's saying the parents were overindulgent. Where I live it isn't a huge insult. In fact when I use it, it's usually kidding. One wouldn't use that term when talking about something important. Such as, "your mom is going to let you have the extra big ice cream, aren't you lucky, your mom spoils you rotten."

Are you from America? It sounds like you're using a literal interpretation and I know around here it isn't meant literally at all. It's just an expression.

[laundry_queen]

56. I think it can cause harm when used often and with contempt

my parents (who tend towards narcissism according to my therapist) used to say that to me quite often whenever they didn't want me to have something. First, let's establish I was not spoiled. I had to work and buy my own clothing/toiletries and earn my own spending money starting at age 11. I had many chores. I had few toys or possessions as a child. Every thing I had was treasured, because I didn't have much. It wasn't that my parents couldn't afford it - they spent the money on themselves. When I would ask for, say, a new pair of jeans or winter boots and I would get upset when my mom took me to Value Village or Goodwill I was told I was 'spoiled rotten' and that I should be happy that she would buy me anything at all. Anytime I asked for anything that most kids my age in my town just expected to get, I was told I was spoiled rotten.

Yet, sometimes, she would indulge me, usually at Christmas or birthdays. But if I pointed out the hypocrisy of her buying thousands of dollars worth of clothing for herself, but I had only 3 pairs of jeans I was told I was 'spoiled rotten' and 'didn't appreciate what I had'.

It was a demeaning term used to put me 'in my place' and to let me know that my wants and needs weren't important to her.

My (yes, sadly, narcissistic) ex does the same with our children. Calls them spoiled when they want something like good sneakers when they make the basketball team, while he goes on cruises and spends thousands on new business suits for himself. It's a way to make you feel guilty for asking for anything. Makes you feel like you are not worth anything.

Now there are other ways parents can emotionally scar their kids without using the exact wording of 'spoiled rotten' but used in the context I have written about, it can cause harm. BTW, I'm Canadian so maybe there is a cultural difference going on but I doubt it. I've heard people use it jokingly too.

[okaawhatever]

71. I think it's difficult to quantify or qualify the impact of an expression when the person using it

is trying to defend the indefensible. In your case your parents were trying to create a false reality and make you feel guilty for their actions. If your parents had actually spoiled you rotten would it have had the same effect? I know a lot of abusive parents or spouses use the line "you're just too sensitive" in an attempt to put the blame on the victim.
I'm sorry your parents and ex-husband treated you that way. I'm glad you're getting help now and can see their behavior for what it is. No child should go through that.
Expressions do carry different meanings in different areas. In our family you didn't tell someone to shut up. Ever. It was hush or be quiet. I don't even know why it was so bad. Telling someone to f off was probably better. That's a southern thing. Up north it isn't that big of a deal. When kids started saying "shut UP" as an exclamation as in "No Way" or "you're kidding" I had a hard time with it. Now i'm used to hearing it and shut up has a different effect on me.
I was born in the south but my dad was Air Force so I lived all over the country. When I was in grade school in southern California I was snatched out of my chair and sent to the principals office for saying "what in the Sam Hill?". The phrase doesn't have a negative connotation in the south, but the Principal and that teacher somehow thought I was saying something bad. I've faced that in every part of the country with local colloquialisms and mores. I'll be more cognizant of the term and it's use in the future.

[Tansy_Gold]

42. No, it's not a demeaning put down. It's a description

And it means they've been spoiled rotten by someone else. Usually parents, but sometimes grandparents or others.

Often the description isn't used to the child but rather about them when discussing them with, one would hope, the person or persons doing the spoiling. We don't go up to a tantrum-throwing four-year-old and say, "Stop it, you spoiled rotten little brat." We do tell the parents, "Your tantrum-throwing four-year-old is turning into a spoiled little brat." And the parents need to know it.

Children will have tantrums and they will have meltdowns, but by the time they are old enough to be in social situations -- whether that's pre-school or kindergarten or whatever -- they should have learned to behave appropriately. The child who hasn't learned to behave, who knows that a tantrum will get him whatever it is that he wants and isn't getting, is indeed a spoiled rotten little brat. And his parents need to know that if they're ever going to fix it.

Whether they do fix it or not is another issue entirely.

[Yo_Mama]

44. The expression is a criticism of the parents

It acknowledges that the child's behavioral problem is due to bad parenting.

And sorry, some kids are spoiled rotten.

[TBF]

74. And what would you call adults who exhibit similar behaviors?

Because I see many more of those and they don't even have the excuse of age.

[madinmaryland]

89. Freepers and Teabaggers!!

[TBF]

90. Good response! nt

[rustydog]

5. OR, you've seen children whose horrible behavior has been enabled by bad parents

Kids who kick and scream in the mall because they can't get a sponge-bob shirt...they can't eat dessert first...they throw a fit because they do not get what they want, me, me,me!!!!
There is such a thing as spoiled rotten, sorry.

[Arugula Latte]

6. That is normal behavior for very young kids -- ages 2 to 5 or so.

No matter how great a parent you are chances are you have at least one war story where your kid pitched a major fit in public. For me the most memorable was several years ago with my son in Target. I got through the checkout and didn't give in to him, but in the meantime I was one of "those" parents people glare at.

[Skidmore]

11. This and sometimes a little one just becomes tired and overwhelmed

by all that is going on around him or her and just has a meltdown. It's not a tantrum but a cry of distress. Needs to go somewhere quieter and get a little rest.

[idwiyo]

21. Sorry, it isn't. Maybe it's normal where you live but it's sure as hell isn't here.

Or in lots of other countries I visited.

[Arugula Latte]

27. Lol if you really think tantrums are unusual for toddler/preschoolers.

[laundry_queen]

59. LOL no kidding.

I have 4 wonderful kids. Straight A's, teachers all say they are a dream, relatives always want them to visit because they are so well behaved, kind, etc.


They were really, really horrible toddlers. LOL, the stories I could tell. My kindest, most empathetic, sweetest child was THE WORST toddler. She had more tantrums than all my others put together.

Oh, and another thing: when my ex left us, my third daughter (the one who was truly daddy's girl) had serious tantrums at age 7 - far past when it should be happening. I mean, total screaming, drop on the floor tantrums. Even in public. I immediately got her in to a child psychologist because I was like WTH is going on? Guess what? She told me it's perfectly normal when kids are going through serious life changes, like a death of a parent or a divorce. One year of therapy and she's now totally fine.

My second daughter was generally a really good toddler but her meltdowns, though few and far between, were epic. It happens. With all kids at one time or another, good or bad, it happens.

[Arugula Latte]

66. Yes, it's a normal part of early childhood development.

The kids are old enough to realize they want something or are unhappy for some reason, but are unable to express themselves very effectively, get frustrated, and so they go "over the top." I myself threw a few epic tantrums back in the day, and then at about age 7 or 8 I turned into the most mellow kid you'd ever meet.

[keroro gunsou]

46. i'm not a parent...

but i got the nastiest glares from people in the stores when i was shopping with my cousins.... i took a leaf out of jeff foxworthy's book when someone tried to tell me to shut the kids up... "where are your parents!?!"

shocked both the kids and the nosy adults into silence...

[TacoD]

83. Change 5 to 3 and I agree with you. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. A qualifier, a 2-3 year old throwing a tantrum

Is actually explained by brain physiology and development. A six year old is a totally different story.

2-3 year olds are all about me...it is child development.

[gollygee]

16. Toddlers have tantrums because they're toddlers

and that's what toddlers do. You see the trigger for the tantrum and think it's the reason, but any little thing in the world could trigger it. They're on the edge of a tantrum and looking for something to push them over it. It has nothing to do with being spoiled. If it did, it would get worse as they grew up - and if it does get worse than maybe that's the case - but the vast majority of kids stop having tantrums at some point.

[Arugula Latte]

88. Another point on this:

Did you ever think that many of the kids throwing tantrums might be freaking out precisely because the parents ARE being good parents by standing their ground and not buckling to demands? I can still remember the feeling of rage and powerlessness I had when I was very young and my parents wouldn't acquiesce to something that seemed earth-shatteringly necessary to me at the moment. It takes some time for kids to develop a sense of perspective on things...Kids who have parents who just give in immediately have less of a need to throw tantrums because they just get their way.

[RainDog]

7. People said my oldest son was spoiled

I was criticized, etc. by the wives of professional associates, by people in my family... this criticism was compounded because people said he looked like the gerber baby and had curly ringlets - of course he was spoiled. He learned to read by memorizing words (not a "gestalt" of reading), when he was 3. So, of course he was spoiled.

...and it turned out that my son was autistic, but so high-functioning that it wasn't obvious at that age. He was very sensitive to sounds and the "mouth feel" of foods. The scratchiness of fabrics bothered him. Tags drove him crazy.

Sometimes as a toddler he would sort of "melt down" and, rather than punish him, I would hold him tight against my body and rock him to calm him. I didn't think physical punishment was a good way to discipline, either, so of course that was up for criticism as well for some of the older folks. Later, when I read Temple Grandin's biography, I learned that she used a machine she invented to create just such "pressure" to help her with sensory integration.

After I read Grandin, and my son was older, I could ask my son questions and learned that the flicker of light bulbs bothered him. Before his autism diagnosis, the pediatrician thought he might be epileptic because he seemed to have complex partial seizures. He had to have eegs and cat scans and, tho not conclusive, the doctor recommended seizure medication. my ex disagreed, tho, and we ended up "waiting and seeing."

Some of the people who were most critical of my "spoiled child" were dead before he got his dx. I did wish I could tell them, so that maybe they wouldn't be such harsh, judgmental assholes, but it was too late for them. Maybe someone else can learn from their examples.

[Cleita]

15. I agree with small children. It's best to look for a reason for the behavior

before punishment is dished out and frankly punishing small pre-schoolers is just wrong.

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. +1000

Deja Vu - right down to the "holding tight" thing.

But he was our third and we had a reputation of being strict parents with the elder two so people weren't quite so judgmental.

[RainDog]

91. Yeah. First kids get a lot more "attention"

from people trying to tell others how to parent. These same people, fwiw, were critical of other people, not just me, for so many things. I actually had more behavior challenges with my second child, over the years.

I should also clarify that my son with autism had melt downs that lasted after the terrible twos - but he is one of the kindest and sweetest young men someone could ever meet. By the time he started first grade he was fine. He loved to go to school.

I noticed on an autism thread you mentioned your son liked theater. So does mine. He says he gets to pretend to be "neurotypical." He also loves to sing and was all state vocal jazz. He loves musicals, but doesn't have the coordination and sense of place in space for dancing - but, to improve his skills, he took dance classes, even - on his own. I admire him for his willingness to do such things. He did have a chance to be in a musical a month or two ago, but the part didn't involve much dance for him. The director may have accommodated the role for him, not sure, because it was one of the leads.

[oldhippie]

9. I would suggest .....

... that if you have a problem with hyperbole, you not hang around here.

[tina tron]

14. It's not hyperbole

It's authority figures being abusive to children.

[aikoaiko]

10. WW

[IMG][/IMG]

[Cleita]

13. I never considered any child under four as responsible no

matter how bad their behavior. They really don't know any better. Sometimes there is a reason like uncomfortable clothes or a tummy ache that causes them to act up. Spanking or yelling at a child that young only scares and confuses them.

[tjwash]

17. oy

[Skittles]

18. I envy you

if this is what you consider major enough to rant about

[tina tron]

22. Yes thank you, it is.

I was described as spoiled rotten by my parents and my family. You know what they did to cure me of it? They beat the shit out of me.

[bettyellen]

30. then you should be angry at your parents, not anyone here. Sorry that happened to you

but my nephews are rude selfish little assholes, just like their Mom. It has nothing to do with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I am sorry you were abused as a child

Yes, what you just described is child abuse.

[Skittles]

35. aah so now we have the real issue

your parents were abusers - I'm very sorry, and perhaps that is what you should rant about

[tina tron]

36. skittles

wooooooooosh over your head. Actually I witnessed a a display where some family members who are shit parents described their child as being "spoilt rotten".

[Skittles]

54. wooooooooooooosh

sorry I misintepreted: "I was described as spoiled rotten by my parents and my family. You know what they did to cure me of it? They beat the shit out of me."

[Phlem]

37. I have PTSD from that same exact thing

which is ignorance. Mine started around 2 or 3 and lasted till I moved out. And yes you do remember the first hit. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. You have friends here I can personally agree to that. The hardest part is moving on and letting go. I still haven't been able to accomplish that. Outside of medication and exercise, do what makes you happy, with in reason, I would say murdering lawn gnomes when ever you get a chance is a little over the top.

I love art drawing and painting, on the computer. The other is my girl and giving her what I never had, she's so happy and that feeling stays with you forever. I used to get in trouble as a teenager and my first taste of that was when I had to do community service at the local YMCA in the kids program. Unconditional love, then I found that in my Golden Retriever when we got her. Unconditional love fixes a lot.

Life's an adventure, and you can do it on your own terms now.

I hope nothing but the happiest life one could possibly have.

I'm always around here if you need anything.



Welcome to DU!

PS.. and I'm way into science too. That can burn a lot of fun hours.

[Taitertots]

45. Wait? Saying spoiled rotten is bad, but physical abuse is good? n/t

[Phlem]

50. I know.

It's not OK but baby steps.

Absolutely no pun intended.


-p

[tina tron]

20. This thread kind of went sideways

I wasn't really focusing on the "tantrum" side of things. I was more thinking about children that are given things by their parents or given into by their parents. But either way. It's still a horrible thing to call a person, any person, regardless of age.

[dem in texas]

23. Oh please! Get over it!

It is not the fault of young children that they earn the label, spoiled rotten, but it is still true. Some children are given everything they want, are not taught any manner or respect for others. It is totally the parents fault, but the child is still a little spoiled rotten brat. There is one in my family who grew had that label and grew up to be a spoiled, thoughtless, rude adult.

[JI7]

24. those words are aimed more towards the PArents

and sorry, but there ARE kids who are spoiled.

[FSogol]

25. I hate the term, "The way to a man's heart is thru his stomach."

Many young people will grow up to be doctors and I can only imagine the tragedy that will strike if they begin heart surgeries by opening up the stomach. -Bob Elliot and Ray Goulding

[loli phabay]

85. on hearing that line the boss at home adds, no its through the breastbone

with a power drill.

[ladjf]

28. I've heard the term "spoiled rotten" many times but, I've never known anyone to interpreter the term

literally. What it usually means is that the children were indulged too much.

[Jenoch]

29. I have a niece

who was 'spoiled rotten' as a young child. From the day she was born until the day her twin sisters were born four years later, she was the center of their lives. She was given anything she wished and she was the ruler of that household. Needless to say, things changed after her twin sisters came along. Her parents did not do her any favors. I remembe her second birthday party where her parents rented one of those air-filled castle things where the kids bounce around. Her mom wanted to make the party special for all of her friends. I told her that 2-year olds don't have 'friends'. It took many years, but that niece is now a 14 year old is now a wonderful person.

[Trajan]

32. Rarely does anyone actually say this directly to children

... so your concerns about damage to delicate egos are hardly justified ... this sounds like you had a personal experience, which you are now magnifying and expanding to include a large population ...

It's your personal strawman ...

[elleng]

33. I agree.

Many people don't understand much about childhood.

[CFLDem]

34. What other terms should we use for the little demons?

[ileus]

38. You do know people don't throw spoiled rotten kids in the trash....right???

And I have two spoiled rotten turbo turds myself. Of course they're older now 9&11, their fragile egos didn't seem to be shattered by being called rotten or spoiled. Neither have any of the 100's of rotten little turds I have been around suffered irreparable damage.(or any damage for that matter)

Believe it or not there are much worse things to call kids...most are spoiled, and most are rotten, and most will acknowledge that fact with a evil little grin.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Then how do you explain the thousands of homeless minor youth on the streets

each year? The term 'throwaway kids' is common for a reason. 40% of homeless youth is gay, compared to about 10% of youth in general. Of that 40%, 68% say they are homeless primarily due to familial rejection, that is they were rejected by their family.

[Phlem]

39. I've got a 7 year old second grader and she's the best.

She is an only child but far from spoiled rotten. That spoiled rotten shit comes from the parents. The only actual cause and effect I can see how the child is raised. Children copy parents.

Don't blame the child.

I've spent a lifetime being the opposite of what my parents were. Dare I say my latter years are wonderful, yes I do.

Calling children "anything" to their faces in a derogatory sense opens a can of all kinds of new problems and issues.

Be what you want your child to be.

-p

PS. I've never hit her and never will, and she get's an overdose of loves, kisses, hugs and "I love you's" everyday. We challenge her and we certainly don't let her get away with crap. We encourage her and say positive things to her all the time, we don't let her beat her self up but we also vigorously encourage her to do her best. She does great in school and is currently learning some coding as we speak. In turn she adores us and that's really all I need.

[Phlem]

60. Also, we do parents night out with some neighbors and

There is a problem child in the loop. Again not his fault because I know the parents and circumstances. Lucky for us the mother know's there's an issue and had givin us the O. K. in disciplining him while he was there.

Sure enough he started in on the not sharing, not listening right away. I laid down the law in as calm a tone as a father can for everyone, not singling him out. We figured out timed intervals when every body got to be the center of focus, then played a group game of Skip Bo for hours afterwards.

It turned out to be the easiest evening ever. After about 3 years of trying different strategies turns out laying down the law is sometimes what they need. A parent in charge.

......Or it can fall all to shit next time we get together.



-p

[laundry_queen]

62. A million times this ^^^^

Ditto everything you said from this mom of 4.

[Phlem]

64. Thanks my friend.

-p

[BrotherIvan]

65. Can you be my mom/dad?

Your posts throughout this thread are awesome! Your kid picked out some great parents! Good luck to you all.

[Phlem]

68. Thanks bud

I look at it as my salvation and a way to give back, meaningfully.

But it's random comments like these that make it twice as nice!

Take Care.

-p

[dballance]

41. I don't know what possessed you to step into this?

While children who are as young as 2 or 3 are probably not rotten - yet. They may be on their way if they have enabling parents.

[jazzimov]

43. I see it as a vindictive against the Parents.

If a child is described as "spoiled rotten", I see it as an insult to the parents. The child can't help it if they were "spoiled" by the parents who decided to give in to every little peccadillo of the child.

And, yes, I have seen many children that I would consider "spoiled rotten". Yes, I would throw them in the trash - because their parents "spoiled" them "rotten".

[Decaffeinated]

47. The fact that they are a child does not endow them with an unassailable innocence...

Kids start off neutral and through being spoiled become rotten...

Ruined by their parents but ruined none the less...

[Phlem]

49. "Ruined by their parents"

My point exactly, the parents do not get off scott free. It's fricken basic biology. Children learn from their parents.

-p

[Liberal Veteran]

53. The Oompa Loompa know all about that.

[Phlem]

57. Nice catch!

-p

[FarCenter]

80. A lot is genetics, siblings, classmates, teachers, friends, peer groups, etc.

By the time they are in their twenties, the effect of parenting has relatively little effect on the development of personality.

At 2 or 3 the parental effect is maybe 25%.

[Phlem]

86. True

The environment they live has a huge effect on how they are raised. But I don't know, my girl is seven and she still adores us. Must be all the luvin and huggin and kisses we give her everyday. When I was that age, I was in survival mode cause of my abusive step father. Hide. hide, hide was all I could think of. That pretty much had a long term effect and still affects me to this day with PTSD.



-p

[BlueToTheBone]

51. I use the phrase

well cared for.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. Oh for God's sake....

....I predict language will devolve into grunts, groans and farting in a few hundred years so as not to tax anyone's psyche.

Although the word "bling" will somehow manage to survive.

[Liberal Veteran]

58. #gruntspeak

Now with more bling!

[deutsey]

84. "Duckspeak" from 1984

"Ultimately it was hoped to make articulate speech issue from the larynx without involving the higher brain centres at all. This aim was frankly admitted in the Newspeak word duckspeak […]. Like various words in the B vocabulary, duckspeak was ambivalent in meaning. Provided that the opinions which were quacked out were orthodox ones, it implied nothing but praise, and when the Times referred to one of the orators of the Party as a doubleplusgood duckspeaker it was paying a warm and valued compliment."

[Vashta Nerada]

61. So what?

Some kids are spoiled rotten.

Should I start a thread about all the phrases I hate?

[Ken Burch]

63. Good point. Also, calling a child "spoiled rotten" implies

that, at a young age, this person is already totally unredeemable.

I realize that nobody actually means to give the phrase that meaning, but words, even words said unthinkingly, do have consequences.

[liberal_at_heart]

69. It certainly does have consequences. Kids are labeled very early in life as trouble makers, and

that label stays with them. These kids are often given up on and thrown out of school, and end up in prison. With the proper help and support kids labeled trouble makers or spoiled rotten can change and be productive members of society.

[liberal_at_heart]

67. you have to remember there is a subset of DUers who wish the human species would just stop

reproducing entirely. You will find some on DU that look at over indulged children as nothing more than annoyances that they must put up with while they are out and about in public. I wonder if that is why democrats don't seem to care very much about education.

[Decaffeinated]

72. What else are you supposed to besides tolerate them?

[HappyMe]

73. It's more a comment on the adult's

lack of parenting skills.

There are, in fact kids that are spoiled rotten.

[Iggo]

75. I don't.

[Puglover]

78. ...

Build a bridge.

[raccoon]

79. I had a brother-in-law(now ex) who used to call me and my sibs "the three spoiled brats."

If it was now, I wouldn't put up with that crap for a minute.

A friend in college told me, "Raccoon, you could have done with a little spoiling." I think what she meant was I needed some attention and affection.

[FatBuddy]

82. God does make bad children

[Phlem]

87. I'll have to say

This thread is really eye opening. No wonder we have some fucked up kids in the US.

-p