WTF? Report Suggests NSA Engaged In Financial Manipulation, Changing Money In Bank Accounts:

[Poll_Blind]

Report Suggests NSA Engaged In Financial Manipulation, Changing Money In Bank Accounts

Matt Blaze has been pointing out that when you read the new White House intelligence task force report and its recommendations on how to reform the NSA and the wider intelligence community, that there may be hints to other excesses not yet revealed by the Snowden documents. Trevor Timm may have spotted a big one. In the recommendation concerning increasing security in online communications, the second sub-point sticks out like a sore thumb:

Not much more at the link but there are links peppered throughout it, so worth a visit. (hat-tip to kulkke for the post on Reddit)

Governments should not use their offensive cyber capabilities to change the amounts held in financial accounts or otherwise manipulate the financial system.

My oh my.

PB

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. There are alot of rules like this.....just because its possible

doesn't mean it has happened. I mean there is the ability to shut down the entire electrical grid...but that doesn't mean someone HAS done it...

[Poll_Blind]

6. I don't think you understand that these are the results of a Presidential REVIEW of NSA practices...

...and recommendations on how to reform the agency.

This didn't come up merely because it was a possibility. There was some reason it was pointed out in the report, and so specifically.

Here's a link to the full report in PDF form.

PB

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I think you're making too much out of this ...

At the absolute most, this Review might have uncovered evidence of a conversation where raiding accounts might have been discussed.

[Denzil_DC]

25. My reading of it isn't so clear-cut.

It's a section on the need to support norms and international agreements. It says among those measures to be considered are that "Governments should not ...."

As written, without fuller context, it could refer to any government (and could be taken as a veiled criticism of other governments), and doesn't in itself necessarily refer to anything that's been done in the past (though I expect it has).

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. +1 ...

And I doubt there is a "rule" that say, "Governments should not engage in activity with the intent to shut down the entire grid."

[Trillo]

2. I wonder what it would be like to be a citizen

living under a fair economic system, instead of a rigged one.

[truedelphi]

38. You are not alone in your wondering:

"Thus did a handful of rapacious citizens come to control all that was worth controlling in America. Thus was the savage and stupid and entirely inappropriate... American class system created. Honest, industrious, peaceful citizens were classed as bloodsuckers, if they asked to be paid a living wage. And they saw that praise was reserved henceforth for those who devised means of getting paid enormously for committing crimes against which no laws had been passed. Thus the American dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.” - Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater

[rafeh1]

3. if i was running NSA or CIA or KGB etc

First thing I would do is set up shadow options traders and feed them early financial news. This way I would get several billion under the table unaccounted money to play with and use as the agency head sees fit with no worries.

Ever heard of how Howard Hughes lived and made money.. There maybe many other like him. financial moles who use agency provided insider financial tips to short or long stocks and then split the gains with the sponsoring agency.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Erm, that had to be put in writing because they couldn't figure it out for themselves that it was

wrong?

[loudsue]

5. Good point! But I don't really think our government gives a rat's ass whether it's wrong or not

these days.

[politichew]

7. If I suggest to someone that murder is wrong,

it makes them a murderer?

BRB, going to go test out these amazing new powers!

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. ^^^ Exactly

[2banon]

12. other than a 3 or 4 year old child, who on earth would you be suggesting that murder is wrong?

actually, this is like having to explain the basic facts of life, and the bill of rights to lawmakers in all offices.

maybe you were just joshin', eh? pulling a monty python skit maybe? ..

[winter is coming]

8. Now we know what the next round of denial, minimalization, and rationalization will be about. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Logically it does Not suggest financial manipulation. Like Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics it is

Logically it does Not suggest financial manipulation.

Like Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics, it is entirely within the capability of intelligent imaginative human beings to erect barriers to behavior that has not occurred but might occur.

Perhaps the NSA has manipulated, perhaps not. This line in the report is no evidence either way.

[geek tragedy]

11. Alternative explanation: falls under general rule

that government shouldn't do stuff that hackers do

[spanone]

14. rogue agency.

[BelgianMadCow]

16. I have important info to add to the OP: here's whistleblower Thomas Drake on that very same subject

LS: Understood, but I would like to ask you, nevertheless one more question related to this. This would be, once NSA controlled the software used by banks to process wire transfers or money and letters of credit it could in theory add, delete and/or modify the amounts of funds in accounts because the funds are just data like any other kind of data. Have you ever heard that NSA or other intelligence agency exploited the banks surveillance version of PROMIS towards such an end?

TD: I've certainly heard of it, I just don't have any proof nor can I verify or validate, but I will tell you one of the aspects that has not been fully disclosed although I blew the whistle on it early on when I, within the system, had gone to key people within the government particularly congressional intelligence committees regarding Stellar Wind. One of the things that Stellar Wind did was actually without, again, without warrants, was gain direct access to financial transaction information at the bank level, credit card level, and this is extraordinary - these secret agreements were put into place regarding the flow of money.

This is shrouded in all kinds of secrecy ... but I was well aware what would that mean if there were those within the system who chose to abuse it, you know far beyond the purpose of tracking money laundering and things of that nature because this is all hidden; ... the life blood of any economy is the money, the money flows, the money deposits, the investments. I can't speak specifically to the allegations or assertions that you mentioned, but I can tell you that I would not be surprised at all that it was used in that manner given my knowledge of other abuses of information and systems that people in secret would use or have access to.

Asia Times, excellent article (that probably merits an OP tbh, if anyone feels like it)

On edit: People unfamiliar with Thomas Drake, here's a short clip

[winter is coming]

17. So, if the NSA can play with money, how long have they had that capability?

For example, did they have it in the months preceding the 2008 election? And who would give the orders for something like that?

[BelgianMadCow]

19. the experiences Drake is recounting are from before 2008

given that he resigned from the NSA in 2008. Whether the NSA can actually play with money he says he can't prove. But in the rest of the article he goes into detail about abuse of secret information for monetary gain in various ways, not just direct manipulation of amounts in balances.

[winter is coming]

21. I've often wondered if Bushco tanked the economy on purpose to keep the Obama administration

so busy with putting out economic fires that they'd be less likely to pursue Bushco crimes.

[Aerows]

22. High Frequency Trading

It's going to come out. Read up on what it is.

[BelgianMadCow]

23. that doesn't particularly make sense to me

to be honest. I also don't see how it follows from what we were discussing, unless with a very big leap.

But to adress the possibility: couldn't the crash have been deliberate? Given the testimony of Lloyd Blankfein and Fabulous Fab, we know that Goldman Sachs bet against the housing market whilst selling rebundled mortgages to their clients, and the decision to let Lehman fail was an backroom deal with Goldman Sachs and Goldman Sachs alumni. So that's entirely within the realm of possibility. It suffises to check out the banking chart to see that 2008 wasn't a disaster for all, to put it mildly.

For the goal to have been to avoid prosecution, that's a very weird way to achieve that. And given the total lack of prosecution of previous presidents, it was unlikely from the outset. Neither had Obama campaigned on it. If anything, the goal could have been to set the enormous wealth transfer called bail-out + austerity in motion. Again, not impossible, if you've read the Shock Doctrine.

[Aerows]

28. It's a weird way to avoid prosecution

when everyone thinks you cannot avoid prosecution. When those doing the prosecution know you can manipulate the financial market at a high level on a whim, then it makes perfect sense.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. You propose that Bush thought Obama could not chew gum and walk at the same time. nt

[winter is coming]

30. No. I propose that there are only 24 hours in a day and if you're using a lot of them

to deal with a potential collapse of the economy, other things are likely to get put on a back burner or tossed overboard altogether.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. You underestimate Obama's management skills. nt

[rhett o rick]

40. I think the crash was orchestrated to make the most money at the time.

It was like the Bushco good-bye kiss to the American people. But I doubt it was to stall or eliminate prosecution of Bushco. IMO there was/is no need to worry about the current admin prosecuting Bushco. Regardless of whether or not the President wants to prosecute Bushco, IMO he wont be allowed to. And in fact, I bet he pardons the bunch.

To me it makes sense to understand there is a higher power than the Presidency. It's easy to visualize that possibility when Bush was president. Georgie didnt make any decisions. I can imagine the President is given some leeway in the social areas but none in the areas of intelligence and economy. The current intelligence agencies, their leaders, their programs, and their practices are solid and preceded Obama. I can see a scenerio where the president takes office and the intelligence agencies have a meeting with him and explain how smoothly things are running and that if he dares to interfere, he would be taking the full responsibility of subsequent terrorist attacks. If the President had any power in the area of intelligence, he would have fired Gen Clapper long ago. I dont think he can.

[grasswire]

31. PROMIS??? That goes back to the 70s, doesn't it??

What a mess.

[BelgianMadCow]

32. Yes, it does. But he speaks of "the banks surveillance version of PROMIS"

so that sounds like a later adaptation of PROMIS. Further in the article he says ECHELON never went away, just slid further in the shadows.

PROMIS:

But the real power of PROMIS, according to Hamilton, is that with a staggering 570,000 lines of computer code, PROMIS can integrate innumerable databases without requiring any reprogramming. In essence, PROMIS can turn blind data into information. And anyone in government will tell you that information, when wielded with finesse, begets power. Converted to use by intelligence agencies, as has been alleged in interviews by ex-CIA and Israeli Mossad agents, PROMIS can be a powerful tracking device capable of monitoring intelligence operations, agents and targets, instead of legal cases.

[grasswire]

33. from wikipedia

They further alleged that the software was used within the FBI and other U.S. intelligence agencies to track internal intelligence, and was used by intelligence operatives to track international interbank transactions.[32] These reports further stated that Osama bin Laden reportedly later bought copies of the same Promis-derivative on the Russian black market (blat) for $2 million.[33] It was believed then that al Qaeda used the software to penetrate database systems to move funds throughout the banking system, and to evade detection by U.S. law enforcement. [34]

[Octafish]

37. Pukes connected to Ed Meese and Co. stole Inslaw/PROMIS and the patents...

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.01/inslaw.html

[truedelphi]

39. Thank you for your addition to the discussion.

And Goddess bless Mr Drake.

[hootinholler]

44. One wonders if the NSA was the short seller of airline stocks on 9/11

I've never heard of anyone being taken to task for that.

[Scuba]

18. Anyone surprised (or in doubt) that this happens is very naive.

[rusty fender]

46. Naive=Catapulter of the Propaganda

[Aerows]

20. Here is the shock about 2 faces display

and both of them are dogs reacting to a new treat.

HFT has been in bed with this for long enough that everyone should shudder, and that is going to come out. That's "the worst is yet to come", because they know this is going to come out.

[Kablooie]

24. The original intent was probably...

to delete money from terrorist bank accounts.
An effective element of the attack on Al Quaeda was to prevent them having access to their money.

Someone probably read "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" and thought it would be cool for the NSA to use computers to play around with terrorist bank accounts just like Lisbeth Salander did in the book and so added that capability to the system.

Of course the potential for abuse is quite mind bending.

[abelenkpe]

26. That should bolster confidence in the markets

[Aerows]

27. I'm shocked, *SHOCKED* gambling is going on in the House

Wait until the HFT information comes out.

[KoKo]

35. K&R...Imagine more will come out about this. Thanks for the Post!

[woo me with science]

41. K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. But...but...everybody knows that everybody does it, so it's OK.

Isn't that the excuse for the NSA spying?

[malaise]

43. When mercenaries run the NSA shouldn't we expect then

To defend their interests - of the 1%, by the one 1%, for the 1%

[jsr]

45. You Betcha!

[woo me with science]

47. K&R

[Savannahmann]

48. Astonishing

Not the revelation, I'm not surprised about that. I mean, it makes perfect sense. Let's say you have a guy who's about to buy some weapons from arms dealer X. The account holds plenty of money, until the NSA goes in and adjusts the decimal point one spot to the left. Now, the baddie doesn't have the money, gets killed by the arms dealer for trying to steal the swag, and the NSA just transfers a bunch of the money to another account, and uses the money for their own purposes.

Now, if you or I did it, that would be a Felony. But the NSA has the keys to the digital kingdom, and that means it's all cool because nobody will ever know they were there.

The other astonishing thing is that there are still people who try and defend the outrageous behavior of the NSA claiming it's not happening. I can only imagine they are much like the parents of the "Afluenza" boy swearing that junior is a good boy, just misunderstood.

[reformist2]

49. Not astonishing. Power corrupts.